Bearing noises question

[Ben]

Hi,

I realise remote diagnosis of bike problems is difficult, but what do
people think, before I ask my LBS about it :

I have a Dawes horizon which has done about 10000 miles, and been kept
in good nick
I took it in for a service recently - clean and relube of everything,
change worn bits and pieces.
I subsequently noticed (though there may be no link) an odd noise from
- possibly - the bottom bracket
The noise reminds me of the sound those metal ball conservation of
momentum desk toys make - a metallic, irregular click clacking -
roughly once or twice per revolution of the cranks, but not coinciding
with any particular crank position
The noise disappears when free-wheeling, and varies in intensity when
pedalling
The noise is completely independant of what gear I am in

This in no way impedes the bikes functionality, but perhaps it is
indicative of something? Could it be something to do with the bottom
bracket bearings?

Cheers,

Ben

 

[savispud]

On 8 Jul, 13:24, Ben <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I realise remote diagnosis of bike problems is difficult, but what do
> people think, before I ask my LBS about it :
>
> I have a Dawes horizon which has done about 10000 miles, and been kept
> in good nick
> I took it in for a service recently - clean and relube of everything,
> change worn bits and pieces.
> I subsequently noticed (though there may be no link) an odd noise from
> - possibly - the bottom bracket
> The noise reminds me of the sound those metal ball conservation of
> momentum desk toys make - a metallic, irregular click clacking -
> roughly once or twice per revolution of the cranks, but not coinciding
> with any particular crank position
> The noise disappears when free-wheeling, and varies in intensity when
> pedalling
> The noise is completely independant of what gear I am in
>
> This in no way impedes the bikes functionality, but perhaps it is
> indicative of something? Could it be something to do with the bottom
> bracket bearings?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ben

If it is coming from your bottom braket it is a crushed bearing -
although these are often liked to specific points in your pedalling

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <[email protected]>, Ben
[email protected] says...
> Hi,
>
> I realise remote diagnosis of bike problems is difficult, but what do
> people think, before I ask my LBS about it :
>
> I have a Dawes horizon which has done about 10000 miles, and been kept
> in good nick
> I took it in for a service recently - clean and relube of everything,
> change worn bits and pieces.
> I subsequently noticed (though there may be no link) an odd noise from
> - possibly - the bottom bracket
> The noise reminds me of the sound those metal ball conservation of
> momentum desk toys make

Newton's cradle

> - a metallic, irregular click clacking -
> roughly once or twice per revolution of the cranks, but not coinciding
> with any particular crank position
> The noise disappears when free-wheeling, and varies in intensity when
> pedalling
> The noise is completely independant of what gear I am in
>
> This in no way impedes the bikes functionality, but perhaps it is
> indicative of something? Could it be something to do with the bottom
> bracket bearings?
>
If the bearings are too loose you should be able to detect sideways play
- check with the crank in several positions as uneven wear can create
tight spots and loose spots. Also look for movement between the bottom
bracket cups and the frame when you do this - movement might occur if
the cups haven't been properly tightened or if the thread in the frame
is damaged. The cups should also be sitting square in the frame. To
check the bearings aren't too tight remove the cranks and rotate the
axle by hand (with the cranks fitted you have too much leverage to
easily tell if the bearing are too tight).
Clicks and clunks during pedalling can have many causes - the
stem/steerer, bar/stem, crank/axle, crank/chainring, pedal/crank or
saddle/seatpost interfaces are common culprits. Overtightened or
cracked bearings can also be noisy, as can unevenly tensioned spokes.
One of my favourite worrying noises is the one you get when the sticky-
out end of the front derailleur cable catches against the crank as you
pedal, or catches your leg and flicks back against something else.

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Ben
('[email protected]') wrote:

> The noise reminds me of the sound those metal ball conservation of
> momentum desk toys make - a metallic, irregular click clacking -
> roughly once or twice per revolution of the cranks, but not coinciding
> with any particular crank position
> The noise disappears when free-wheeling, and varies in intensity when
> pedalling
> The noise is completely independant of what gear I am in

Cracked or completely broken ball in either the bottom bracket or the
drive-side rear wheel bearing. Take 'em out (quickly, before they do more
damage to the races), inspect, replace as necessary. If you can't see the
wrong 'un, replace the lot (although frankly I think you're likely to find
it's actually broken into pieces). That 'click click click' noise is very
diagnostic.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; I'd rather live in sybar-space

 

[Ben]

On 9 Jul, 09:23, Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote:
> in message <[email protected]>, Ben
>
> ('[email protected]') wrote:
> > The noise reminds me of the sound those metal ball conservation of
> > momentum desk toys make - a metallic, irregular click clacking -
> > roughly once or twice per revolution of the cranks, but not coinciding
> > with any particular crank position
> > The noise disappears when free-wheeling, and varies in intensity when
> > pedalling
> > The noise is completely independant of what gear I am in
>
> Cracked or completely broken ball in either the bottom bracket or the
> drive-side rear wheel bearing. Take 'em out (quickly, before they do more
> damage to the races), inspect, replace as necessary. If you can't see the
> wrong 'un, replace the lot (although frankly I think you're likely to find
> it's actually broken into pieces). That 'click click click' noise is very
> diagnostic.
>
> --
> [email protected] (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
>
> ;; I'd rather live in sybar-space

Oh dear - it's started on Sunday morning, so has done about 70 miles
since then, but hasn't got noticeably worse. I'll get Evans to look at
it on Thursday - which means paying them as well as my LBS (who have
just done a service on the bike, but I caught them lubricating with
WD40 which didn't seem right) :-(
I wonder whether it could be related to the service from my LBS or
not...I can't really see how, but then again they should have noticed
it surely?

 

[Rob Morley]

In article <[email protected]>, Ben
[email protected] says...

> Oh dear - it's started on Sunday morning, so has done about 70 miles
> since then, but hasn't got noticeably worse. I'll get Evans to look at
> it on Thursday - which means paying them as well as my LBS (who have
> just done a service on the bike, but I caught them lubricating with
> WD40 which didn't seem right) :-(
> I wonder whether it could be related to the service from my LBS or
> not...I can't really see how, but then again they should have noticed
> it surely?
>
>
If they lubricated a ball bearing with WD40 instead of grease ...

 

[Ben]

On 10 Jul, 10:40, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Ben
> [email protected] says...
>
> > Oh dear - it's started on Sunday morning, so has done about 70 miles
> > since then, but hasn't got noticeably worse. I'll get Evans to look at
> > it on Thursday - which means paying them as well as my LBS (who have
> > just done a service on the bike, but I caught them lubricating with
> > WD40 which didn't seem right) :-(
> > I wonder whether it could be related to the service from my LBS or
> > not...I can't really see how, but then again they should have noticed
> > it surely?
>
> If they lubricated a ball bearing with WD40 instead of grease ...

Well, Evans did a level one service on it, and noted my problem, not
sure what they did, but unfortunately the ticking noise is still
there. Problem is it is pretty much impossible to demonstrate in the
shop, but obvious when riding in quiet streets - and there is nothing
nicer than a silent bike.The BB has not changed, but then perhaps that
is not the problem, as I assume they would have found out if it was.
The shop staff didn't seem that interested though, so I was unable to
glean anything further. Hmmm... perhaps I should have steered clear
of bikes shops altogether

 

[Ben C]

On 2007-07-12, Ben <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10 Jul, 10:40, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Ben
>> [email protected] says...
>>
>> > Oh dear - it's started on Sunday morning, so has done about 70 miles
>> > since then, but hasn't got noticeably worse. I'll get Evans to look at
>> > it on Thursday - which means paying them as well as my LBS (who have
>> > just done a service on the bike, but I caught them lubricating with
>> > WD40 which didn't seem right) :-(
>> > I wonder whether it could be related to the service from my LBS or
>> > not...I can't really see how, but then again they should have noticed
>> > it surely?
>>
>> If they lubricated a ball bearing with WD40 instead of grease ...
>
> Well, Evans did a level one service on it, and noted my problem, not
> sure what they did, but unfortunately the ticking noise is still
> there. Problem is it is pretty much impossible to demonstrate in the
> shop, but obvious when riding in quiet streets - and there is nothing
> nicer than a silent bike.

Could be the cleats in the pedals, those can sometimes make a bit of
creaking or clicking.

Solution is an iPod or something.

 

[Ben]

On 12 Jul, 18:04, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2007-07-12, Ben <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Jul, 10:40, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>, Ben
> >> [email protected] says...
>
> >> > Oh dear - it's started on Sunday morning, so has done about 70 miles
> >> > since then, but hasn't got noticeably worse. I'll get Evans to look at
> >> > it on Thursday - which means paying them as well as my LBS (who have
> >> > just done a service on the bike, but I caught them lubricating with
> >> > WD40 which didn't seem right) :-(
> >> > I wonder whether it could be related to the service from my LBS or
> >> > not...I can't really see how, but then again they should have noticed
> >> > it surely?
>
> >> If they lubricated a ball bearing with WD40 instead of grease ...
>
> > Well, Evans did a level one service on it, and noted my problem, not
> > sure what they did, but unfortunately the ticking noise is still
> > there. Problem is it is pretty much impossible to demonstrate in the
> > shop, but obvious when riding in quiet streets - and there is nothing
> > nicer than a silent bike.
>
> Could be the cleats in the pedals, those can sometimes make a bit of
> creaking or clicking.
>
> Solution is an iPod or something.

I thought of that - but I've tried not being clipped in. It could be
the pedal bearings - perhaps I should try riding one footed on
alternate feet to check that one out. It only seems to happen when
there is reasonable pressure on the pedals, as it is hard to replicate
with the bike upended for working on. I half feel silly for worrying,
but for years now it has been silent, so I don't see why it should
stop Also, its the DunRun in a few weeks, and annoying noises
become very noticeable in the middle of the night Maybe I'll drop
it back by Evans...

 

[Ben C]

On 2007-07-12, Ben <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 12 Jul, 18:04, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2007-07-12, Ben <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 10 Jul, 10:40, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> In article <[email protected]>, Ben
>> >> [email protected] says...
>>
>> >> > Oh dear - it's started on Sunday morning, so has done about 70 miles
>> >> > since then, but hasn't got noticeably worse. I'll get Evans to look at
>> >> > it on Thursday - which means paying them as well as my LBS (who have
>> >> > just done a service on the bike, but I caught them lubricating with
>> >> > WD40 which didn't seem right) :-(
>> >> > I wonder whether it could be related to the service from my LBS or
>> >> > not...I can't really see how, but then again they should have noticed
>> >> > it surely?
>>
>> >> If they lubricated a ball bearing with WD40 instead of grease ...
>>
>> > Well, Evans did a level one service on it, and noted my problem, not
>> > sure what they did, but unfortunately the ticking noise is still
>> > there. Problem is it is pretty much impossible to demonstrate in the
>> > shop, but obvious when riding in quiet streets - and there is nothing
>> > nicer than a silent bike.
>>
>> Could be the cleats in the pedals, those can sometimes make a bit of
>> creaking or clicking.
>>
>> Solution is an iPod or something.
>
> I thought of that - but I've tried not being clipped in. It could be
> the pedal bearings

It could well be, those have been clicking on and off for ages on one of
my bikes. I thought it was the BB at first. Eventually the BB got to the
state where it had quite a bit of play in it so I replaced it, but to my
disappointment the clicking didn't go away.

I also only get it when climbing hills or pushing slightly harder than
normal on the pedals.

I think it must be pedal bearings but it's one of those things where you
might as well wait for it to get a bit worse and then it'll be easier to
diagnose.

But maybe you can take them apart and repack them, or ask Evans to do
that. I don't know how sealed they are these days.

 

[Ben]

On 12 Jul, 18:13, Ben <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 12 Jul, 18:04, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 2007-07-12, Ben <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On 10 Jul, 10:40, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> In article <[email protected]>, Ben
> > >> [email protected] says...
>
> > >> > Oh dear - it's started on Sunday morning, so has done about 70 miles
> > >> > since then, but hasn't got noticeably worse. I'll get Evans to look at
> > >> > it on Thursday - which means paying them as well as my LBS (who have
> > >> > just done a service on the bike, but I caught them lubricating with
> > >> > WD40 which didn't seem right) :-(
> > >> > I wonder whether it could be related to the service from my LBS or
> > >> > not...I can't really see how, but then again they should have noticed
> > >> > it surely?
>
> > >> If they lubricated a ball bearing with WD40 instead of grease ...
>
> > > Well, Evans did a level one service on it, and noted my problem, not
> > > sure what they did, but unfortunately the ticking noise is still
> > > there. Problem is it is pretty much impossible to demonstrate in the
> > > shop, but obvious when riding in quiet streets - and there is nothing
> > > nicer than a silent bike.
>
> > Could be the cleats in the pedals, those can sometimes make a bit of
> > creaking or clicking.
>
> > Solution is an iPod or something.
>
> I thought of that - but I've tried not being clipped in. It could be
> the pedal bearings - perhaps I should try riding one footed on
> alternate feet to check that one out. It only seems to happen when
> there is reasonable pressure on the pedals, as it is hard to replicate
> with the bike upended for working on. I half feel silly for worrying,
> but for years now it has been silent, so I don't see why it should
> stop Also, its the DunRun in a few weeks, and annoying noises
> become very noticeable in the middle of the night Maybe I'll drop
> it back by Evans...

Ah - I've found it. My previous statement was wrong...

I put the bike on its back and removed the chain. I then span the
cranks and there was a periodic, repeatable "click, click, click".
This must be from the BB, as there are no other moving parts (the
pedals were stationary)

This is slightly odd, as the clicking here was regular, whereas that
when riding is not, but it must be the same problem. I'll take it back
into Evans and ask them to replace the bracket I think - hopefully
gratis since they didn't notice it during the service

Ben

 

[Ben]

On 12 Jul, 19:10, Ben <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 12 Jul, 18:13, Ben <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 12 Jul, 18:04, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On 2007-07-12, Ben <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > On 10 Jul, 10:40, Rob Morley <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >> In article <[email protected]>, Ben
> > > >> [email protected] says...
>
> > > >> > Oh dear - it's started on Sunday morning, so has done about 70 miles
> > > >> > since then, but hasn't got noticeably worse. I'll get Evans to look at
> > > >> > it on Thursday - which means paying them as well as my LBS (who have
> > > >> > just done a service on the bike, but I caught them lubricating with
> > > >> > WD40 which didn't seem right) :-(
> > > >> > I wonder whether it could be related to the service from my LBS or
> > > >> > not...I can't really see how, but then again they should have noticed
> > > >> > it surely?
>
> > > >> If they lubricated a ball bearing with WD40 instead of grease ...
>
> > > > Well, Evans did a level one service on it, and noted my problem, not
> > > > sure what they did, but unfortunately the ticking noise is still
> > > > there. Problem is it is pretty much impossible to demonstrate in the
> > > > shop, but obvious when riding in quiet streets - and there is nothing
> > > > nicer than a silent bike.
>
> > > Could be the cleats in the pedals, those can sometimes make a bit of
> > > creaking or clicking.
>
> > > Solution is an iPod or something.
>
> > I thought of that - but I've tried not being clipped in. It could be
> > the pedal bearings - perhaps I should try riding one footed on
> > alternate feet to check that one out. It only seems to happen when
> > there is reasonable pressure on the pedals, as it is hard to replicate
> > with the bike upended for working on. I half feel silly for worrying,
> > but for years now it has been silent, so I don't see why it should
> > stop Also, its the DunRun in a few weeks, and annoying noises
> > become very noticeable in the middle of the night Maybe I'll drop
> > it back by Evans...
>
> Ah - I've found it. My previous statement was wrong...
>
> I put the bike on its back and removed the chain. I then span the
> cranks and there was a periodic, repeatable "click, click, click".
> This must be from the BB, as there are no other moving parts (the
> pedals were stationary)
>
> This is slightly odd, as the clicking here was regular, whereas that
> when riding is not, but it must be the same problem. I'll take it back
> into Evans and ask them to replace the bracket I think - hopefully
> gratis since they didn't notice it during the service
>
> Ben

Hmmm...on further further investigation, it seems I have maligned
Evans unfairly. It does not seem to be the BB after all. I did however
note that the pedal bearings hadn't been greased, so I did that, and
they are running noticeably freer now. Maybe it will help in the
morning

Ben