Bechamel

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Dee Randall, Mar 20, 2006.

  1. Dee Randall

    Dee Randall Guest

    I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.

    I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
    frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The cream
    was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms might have
    been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).

    I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and fried
    them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and Mario's
    bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of cream (without
    calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe). Both called for
    milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made a fit bechamel so
    far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps than the cooking!

    I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated the
    5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and then
    sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2 minutes,
    Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to turn a little
    brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured the hot cream
    into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I whisked. It was very
    thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead of milk. I added 1/2 the
    amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it still was pretty pungent with
    salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!

    Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
    bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really tasted
    like carbonara.

    I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
    Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
    rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.

    Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with oil
    and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.

    It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as they
    say, "Good to go."
    Dee Dee
     
    Tags:


  2. Peter Aitken

    Peter Aitken Guest

    "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    > acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
    >
    > I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
    > frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
    > cream was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms
    > might have been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
    >
    > I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
    > fried them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and
    > Mario's bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of
    > cream (without calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe).
    > Both called for milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made a
    > fit bechamel so far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps
    > than the cooking!
    >
    > I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
    > the 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and
    > then sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2
    > minutes, Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to
    > turn a little brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured
    > the hot cream into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I
    > whisked. It was very thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead of
    > milk. I added 1/2 the amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it still
    > was pretty pungent with salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
    >
    > Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
    > bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
    > tasted like carbonara.
    >
    > I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
    > Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
    > rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
    >
    > Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
    > oil and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
    >
    > It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
    > they say, "Good to go."
    > Dee Dee
    >


    Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is one
    of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical French
    cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock. Call it
    Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of traditional
    recipe names!!


    --
    Peter Aitken
    Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm
     
  3. Reg

    Reg Guest

    Peter Aitken wrote:

    > Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is one
    > of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical French
    > cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock. Call it
    > Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of traditional
    > recipe names!!
    >


    Milk yes, definitely not white stock. That would be
    a veloute.

    --
    Reg
     
  4. Kent

    Kent Guest

    Try making your roux in the microwave using olive oil and flour, in about a
    2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Microwave this on a 3 or so setting. Any oil picks
    up MW radiation far more than other ingredients.
    Then add heated milk and whisk. Heat more and whisk. Then heat a bit more
    and whisk.
    There you have it, your bechamel.
    Recently doing this I made the best crab newberg I've ever had, and nothing
    made it to the stove top. I couldn't believe it. We get live Dungeness Crab
    here, steam it, eat what you can, then make crab stock, and make crab
    newberg from the leftover, if you can imagine there being any.
    Kent

    "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    > acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
    >
    > I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
    > frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
    > cream was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms
    > might have been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
    >
    > I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
    > fried them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and
    > Mario's bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of
    > cream (without calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe).
    > Both called for milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made a
    > fit bechamel so far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps
    > than the cooking!
    >
    > I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
    > the 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and
    > then sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2
    > minutes, Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to
    > turn a little brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured
    > the hot cream into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I
    > whisked. It was very thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead of
    > milk. I added 1/2 the amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it still
    > was pretty pungent with salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
    >
    > Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
    > bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
    > tasted like carbonara.
    >
    > I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
    > Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
    > rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
    >
    > Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
    > oil and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
    >
    > It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
    > they say, "Good to go."
    > Dee Dee
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
  5. Peter Aitken

    Peter Aitken Guest

    "Reg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Peter Aitken wrote:
    >
    >> Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
    >> one of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical
    >> French cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock.
    >> Call it Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of
    >> traditional recipe names!!
    >>

    >
    > Milk yes, definitely not white stock. That would be
    > a veloute.
    >
    > --
    > Reg
    >


    You may argue with Julia.


    --
    Peter Aitken
     
  6. In article <pgHTf.70585$%[email protected]>,
    "Peter Aitken" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    > > acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.

    snip!
    >
    > Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is one
    > of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical French
    > cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock. Call it
    > Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of traditional
    > recipe names!!


    I'm all for that, Peter! And in that spirit, I will quote from my 1961
    English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique: "Originally, the bechamel
    was made by adding a liberal amount of fresh cream to a thick veloute
    sauce."

    D.M.
     
  7. Reg

    Reg Guest

    Peter Aitken wrote:

    > "Reg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>Peter Aitken wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
    >>>one of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical
    >>>French cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock.
    >>>Call it Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of
    >>>traditional recipe names!!
    >>>

    >>
    >>Milk yes, definitely not white stock. That would be
    >>a veloute.
    >>
    >>--
    >>Reg
    >>

    >
    >
    > You may argue with Julia.


    She would agree with me here, I'm afraid.

    Béchamel is not made with "milk or white stock". Either
    it contains all milk or it contains milk with white stock
    added. If it's made with only stock it's a veloute.

    --
    Reg
     
  8. Dee Randall

    Dee Randall Guest

    Kent, when you say, 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Do you mean 2/3 cup of oil and
    1/3 cup of flour and how much milk for those amounts?
    Thanks
    Dee Dee


    "Kent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Try making your roux in the microwave using olive oil and flour, in about
    > a 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Microwave this on a 3 or so setting. Any oil
    > picks up MW radiation far more than other ingredients.
    > Then add heated milk and whisk. Heat more and whisk. Then heat a bit more
    > and whisk.
    > There you have it, your bechamel.
    > Recently doing this I made the best crab newberg I've ever had, and
    > nothing made it to the stove top. I couldn't believe it. We get live
    > Dungeness Crab here, steam it, eat what you can, then make crab stock, and
    > make crab newberg from the leftover, if you can imagine there being any.
    > Kent
    >
    > "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    >> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
    >>
    >> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
    >> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
    >> cream was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms
    >> might have been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
    >>
    >> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
    >> fried them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and
    >> Mario's bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of
    >> cream (without calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe).
    >> Both called for milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made
    >> a fit bechamel so far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps
    >> than the cooking!
    >>
    >> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
    >> the 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and
    >> then sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2
    >> minutes, Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to
    >> turn a little brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured
    >> the hot cream into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I
    >> whisked. It was very thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead
    >> of milk. I added 1/2 the amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it
    >> still was pretty pungent with salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
    >>
    >> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
    >> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
    >> tasted like carbonara.
    >>
    >> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
    >> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
    >> rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
    >>
    >> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
    >> oil and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
    >>
    >> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
    >> they say, "Good to go."
    >> Dee Dee
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
  9. Dee Randall

    Dee Randall Guest

    "Donald Martinich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <pgHTf.70585$%[email protected]>,
    > "Peter Aitken" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >> > I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    >> > acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.

    > snip!
    >>
    >> Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
    >> one
    >> of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical
    >> French
    >> cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock. Call
    >> it
    >> Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of traditional
    >> recipe names!!

    >
    > I'm all for that, Peter! And in that spirit, I will quote from my 1961
    > English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique: "Originally, the bechamel
    > was made by adding a liberal amount of fresh cream to a thick veloute
    > sauce."
    >
    > D.M.


    Dear Friends, I said that I had never made an acceptable Bechamel -- so I
    was off to some unknown Alton Brown adventure. I believe this explanation
    is enough of a deference to the spirit of any Bechamel sauce rooted in
    classical French cooking. I will indeed call it Dee Dee Sauce, if that
    makes you feel better. No problem here. I realize it is such a basic in
    "Classical French Cooking" that it is the first thing our home ec class in
    West Virginia in 1948 'tried' to teach us, possibly to civilize us wild and
    wonderful kids. This particular year I believe they showed us a film of
    Madam Curie and brought in a symphony. Ah, I have digressed ---


    I like this Italian 'origin' version - maybe because I'm partial to 'Italian
    cuisine' - is that an oxymoron? I think not!
    http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/SauceHistory.htm

    There are four theories on the origin of Béchamel Sauce:
    a.. The Italian version of who created this sauce is that it was created
    in the 14th century and was introduced by the Italian chefs of Catherine de
    Medici (1519-1589), the Italian-born Queen of France. In 1533, as part of an
    Italian-French dynastic alliance, Catherine was married to Henri, Duke of
    Orleans (the future King Henri II of France. It is because of the Italian
    cooks and pastry makers who followed her to France that the French came to
    know the taste of Italian cooking that they introduced to the French court.
    Antonin Carème(1784-1833), celebrated chef and author, wrote in 1822: "The
    cooks of the second half of the 1700's came to know the taste of Italian
    cooking that Catherine de'Medici introduced to the French court."
     
  10. Lefty

    Lefty Guest

    The recipe for Cream Sauce in Le Guide combines cream with Béchamel Sauce --
    so you basically made a cream sauce. As for lumps, all of these types of
    sauce call for straining through fine mesh.

    So how many rolls of wallpaper did you hang, Dee?
    Lefty
    --
    Life is for learning

    "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    > acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
    >
    > I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
    > frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The

    cream
    > was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms might have
    > been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
    >
    > I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and

    fried
    > them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and Mario's
    > bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of cream

    (without
    > calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe). Both called for
    > milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made a fit bechamel so
    > far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps than the cooking!
    >
    > I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated

    the
    > 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and then
    > sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2 minutes,
    > Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to turn a

    little
    > brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured the hot cream
    > into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I whisked. It was

    very
    > thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead of milk. I added 1/2

    the
    > amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it still was pretty pungent with
    > salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
    >
    > Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
    > bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really

    tasted
    > like carbonara.
    >
    > I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
    > Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
    > rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
    >
    > Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with

    oil
    > and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
    >
    > It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as

    they
    > say, "Good to go."
    > Dee Dee
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
  11. Kent

    Kent Guest

    Sorry, Dee for my confusion. The usual butter/flour ratio for roux is 1 to
    1. Olive oil makes a healthier, easier, and less fatty roux. You can use a 2
    to 3 ratio rather than a 1 to 1 ratio. For a roux containing 3 TB flour you
    only need 2 TB olive oil rather than 3 TB of butter. I find roux much
    friendlier using olive oil since it has no aqueous, or water fraction, and
    you can store it a long time in ther frig. I make relatively large batches
    of roux, and store in the frig. for a long time, using it when I want to
    make a bechamel or a veloute sauce on the run. It makes a lot of sauce
    making much easier.
    Kent

    "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Kent, when you say, 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Do you mean 2/3 cup of oil
    > and 1/3 cup of flour and how much milk for those amounts?
    > Thanks
    > Dee Dee
    >
    >
    > "Kent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]mcast.com...
    >> Try making your roux in the microwave using olive oil and flour, in about
    >> a 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Microwave this on a 3 or so setting. Any oil
    >> picks up MW radiation far more than other ingredients.
    >> Then add heated milk and whisk. Heat more and whisk. Then heat a bit
    >> more and whisk.
    >> There you have it, your bechamel.
    >> Recently doing this I made the best crab newberg I've ever had, and
    >> nothing made it to the stove top. I couldn't believe it. We get live
    >> Dungeness Crab here, steam it, eat what you can, then make crab stock,
    >> and make crab newberg from the leftover, if you can imagine there being
    >> any.
    >> Kent
    >>
    >> "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    >>> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
    >>>
    >>> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
    >>> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
    >>> cream was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms
    >>> might have been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
    >>>
    >>> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
    >>> fried them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and
    >>> Mario's bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of
    >>> cream (without calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe).
    >>> Both called for milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made
    >>> a fit bechamel so far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps
    >>> than the cooking!
    >>>
    >>> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
    >>> the 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and
    >>> then sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2
    >>> minutes, Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to
    >>> turn a little brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured
    >>> the hot cream into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I
    >>> whisked. It was very thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead
    >>> of milk. I added 1/2 the amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it
    >>> still was pretty pungent with salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
    >>>
    >>> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
    >>> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
    >>> tasted like carbonara.
    >>>
    >>> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
    >>> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and
    >>> the rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
    >>>
    >>> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
    >>> oil and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
    >>>
    >>> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
    >>> they say, "Good to go."
    >>> Dee Dee
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
  12. Kent

    Kent Guest

    Dee, I only answered half of your question.
    The usual ratio of roux to liquid(cream, milk, or stock, or a combination)
    is enough roux to give 2TB flour to one cup of stock,cream or milk. This
    gives you a fairly thick sauce. I usually use enough roux to contain 1.5 TB
    flour per cup of liquid. When you hit the geezer phase of life you like your
    sauces a bit thinner, and less fatty. This is why olive oil, rather than
    butter works so well, and it's easier.
    Kent

    "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Kent, when you say, 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Do you mean 2/3 cup of oil
    > and 1/3 cup of flour and how much milk for those amounts?
    > Thanks
    > Dee Dee
    >
    >
    > "Kent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> Try making your roux in the microwave using olive oil and flour, in about
    >> a 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Microwave this on a 3 or so setting. Any oil
    >> picks up MW radiation far more than other ingredients.
    >> Then add heated milk and whisk. Heat more and whisk. Then heat a bit
    >> more and whisk.
    >> There you have it, your bechamel.
    >> Recently doing this I made the best crab newberg I've ever had, and
    >> nothing made it to the stove top. I couldn't believe it. We get live
    >> Dungeness Crab here, steam it, eat what you can, then make crab stock,
    >> and make crab newberg from the leftover, if you can imagine there being
    >> any.
    >> Kent
    >>
    >> "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    >>> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
    >>>
    >>> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
    >>> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
    >>> cream was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms
    >>> might have been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
    >>>
    >>> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
    >>> fried them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and
    >>> Mario's bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of
    >>> cream (without calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe).
    >>> Both called for milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made
    >>> a fit bechamel so far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps
    >>> than the cooking!
    >>>
    >>> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
    >>> the 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and
    >>> then sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2
    >>> minutes, Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to
    >>> turn a little brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured
    >>> the hot cream into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I
    >>> whisked. It was very thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead
    >>> of milk. I added 1/2 the amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it
    >>> still was pretty pungent with salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
    >>>
    >>> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
    >>> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
    >>> tasted like carbonara.
    >>>
    >>> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
    >>> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and
    >>> the rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
    >>>
    >>> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
    >>> oil and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
    >>>
    >>> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
    >>> they say, "Good to go."
    >>> Dee Dee
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
  13. Reg

    Reg Guest

    Kent wrote:

    > Dee, I only answered half of your question.
    > The usual ratio of roux to liquid(cream, milk, or stock, or a combination)
    > is enough roux to give 2TB flour to one cup of stock,cream or milk. This
    > gives you a fairly thick sauce. I usually use enough roux to contain 1.5 TB
    > flour per cup of liquid. When you hit the geezer phase of life you like your
    > sauces a bit thinner, and less fatty. This is why olive oil, rather than
    > butter works so well, and it's easier.
    > Kent


    Good point about the fat content. I use olive as well sometimes,
    depending on the dish.

    When I want minimal fat, I use a pure slurry, which you can
    do with flour if you mix it properly. You can leave the fat
    out altogether that way.

    --
    Reg
     
  14. Dee Randall

    Dee Randall Guest

    Over the years, plenty of wallpaper, I've made
    I refuse to strain lumps anymore -- you know, like: I don't do windows.
    I'm through with that!
    :)
    Dee Dee



    "Lefty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > The recipe for Cream Sauce in Le Guide combines cream with Béchamel
    > Sauce --
    > so you basically made a cream sauce. As for lumps, all of these types of
    > sauce call for straining through fine mesh.
    >
    > So how many rolls of wallpaper did you hang, Dee?
    > Lefty
    > --
    > Life is for learning
    >
    > "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    >> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
    >>
    >> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
    >> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The

    > cream
    >> was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms might
    >> have
    >> been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
    >>
    >> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and

    > fried
    >> them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and Mario's
    >> bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of cream

    > (without
    >> calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe). Both called for
    >> milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made a fit bechamel
    >> so
    >> far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps than the cooking!
    >>
    >> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated

    > the
    >> 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and then
    >> sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2 minutes,
    >> Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to turn a

    > little
    >> brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured the hot cream
    >> into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I whisked. It was

    > very
    >> thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead of milk. I added 1/2

    > the
    >> amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it still was pretty pungent
    >> with
    >> salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
    >>
    >> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
    >> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really

    > tasted
    >> like carbonara.
    >>
    >> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
    >> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
    >> rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
    >>
    >> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with

    > oil
    >> and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
    >>
    >> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as

    > they
    >> say, "Good to go."
    >> Dee Dee
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
  15. notbob

    notbob Guest

    On 2006-03-21, Dee Randall <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I refuse to strain lumps anymore --


    I've never had lumps in my roux/sauce. I learned two tricks early on
    that guarantee *no* lumps. First, get yourself a professional quality
    French whisk, the kind you find at a restaurant supply store. Second,
    always make sure the liquid you add to your roux, be it stock, milk,
    etc, is at least warm, if not hot. No cold liquids. (finally, a good
    use for your microwave ...besides warming coffee)

    http://www.sallys-place.com/food/chefs-corner/whisks.htm

    nb
     
  16. Peter Aitken

    Peter Aitken Guest

    "Donald Martinich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <pgHTf.70585$%[email protected]>,
    > "Peter Aitken" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >> > I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    >> > acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.

    > snip!
    >>
    >> Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
    >> one
    >> of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical
    >> French
    >> cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock. Call
    >> it
    >> Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of traditional
    >> recipe names!!

    >
    > I'm all for that, Peter! And in that spirit, I will quote from my 1961
    > English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique: "Originally, the bechamel
    > was made by adding a liberal amount of fresh cream to a thick veloute
    > sauce."
    >
    > D.M.


    That's quite interesting because Julia has it different. I guess even the
    "classic" recipes are not set in stone.


    --
    Peter Aitken
     
  17. On Tue 21 Mar 2006 06:28:22a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Peter
    Aitken?

    > "Donald Martinich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> In article <pgHTf.70585$%[email protected]>,
    >> "Peter Aitken" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected]
    >>> > I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    >>> > acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.

    >> snip!
    >>>
    >>> Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
    >>> one of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in
    >>> classical French
    >>> cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock.
    >>> Call it Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of
    >>> traditional recipe names!!

    >>
    >> I'm all for that, Peter! And in that spirit, I will quote from my 1961
    >> English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique: "Originally, the
    >> bechamel was made by adding a liberal amount of fresh cream to a thick
    >> veloute sauce."
    >>
    >> D.M.

    >
    > That's quite interesting because Julia has it different. I guess even
    > the "classic" recipes are not set in stone.


    Fettucini Alfredo anyone?

    --
    Wayne Boatwright o¿o
    ____________________

    BIOYA
     
  18. On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:34:59 -0500, "Dee Randall"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    >acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.

    <snip>
    As another poster said, it might have been very good, but not a
    Béchamel.
    Now, how come you have problems with lumps in Béchamel? I find it an
    easy sauce to make: Melt a big blob of butter with some salt, pepper
    and a tsp flour. You should obtain a thick paste. Still on moderate
    heat, start adding milk *very* slowly (at the beginning - actually,
    the process is very much like making mayonnaise - you add the liquid
    extremely slowly at the beginning, then you can start adding faster),
    the milk should mix evenly with the paste. When you have added a cup
    of milk, you can start adding it faster. See, no lumps! Then you let
    it cook 20 minutes on low heat, stirring from time to time. Done!

    Nathalie in Switzerland
     
  19. Wayne Boatwright wrote:
    > On Tue 21 Mar 2006 06:28:22a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Peter
    > Aitken?
    >
    >
    >>"Donald Martinich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]
    >>
    >>>In article <pgHTf.70585$%[email protected]>,
    >>>"Peter Aitken" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>"Dee Randall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>>news:[email protected]
    >>>>
    >>>>>I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
    >>>>>acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
    >>>
    >>>snip!
    >>>
    >>>>Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
    >>>>one of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in
    >>>>classical French
    >>>>cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock.
    >>>>Call it Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of
    >>>>traditional recipe names!!
    >>>
    >>>I'm all for that, Peter! And in that spirit, I will quote from my 1961
    >>>English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique: "Originally, the
    >>>bechamel was made by adding a liberal amount of fresh cream to a thick
    >>>veloute sauce."
    >>>
    >>>D.M.

    >>
    >>That's quite interesting because Julia has it different. I guess even
    >>the "classic" recipes are not set in stone.

    >
    > Fettucini Alfredo anyone?


    That's not really a sauce, you know...

    I bet that's never come up before.

    No, seriously.

    Pastorio
     
  20. notbob

    notbob Guest

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