Before We See a Bike Friendly World

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by ComandanteBanana, Jun 9, 2008.

  1. We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

    So, we can wait for the world to notice us and open bike facilities
    for us, but before we must part with the mentality that bigger is
    better (SUVs) and that the sprawl is the ultimate solution to escape
    the urban jungle...

    I didn't want to talk about the monkey, but he knows all about
    cooperative living...

    What is a TND?

    The acronym TND stands for Traditional Neighborhood Development, a
    comprehensive planning system that includes a variety of housing types
    and land uses in a defined area. The variety of uses permits
    educational facilities, civic buildings and commercial establishments
    to be located within walking distance of private homes. A TND is
    served by a network of paths, streets and lanes suitable for
    pedestrians as well as vehicles. This provides residents the option of
    walking, biking or driving to places within their neighborhood.
    Present and future modes of transit are also considered during the
    planning stages.

    Public and private spaces have equal importance, creating a balanced
    community that serves a wide range of home and business owners. The
    inclusion of civic buildings and civic space -- in the form of plazas,
    greens, parks and squares -- enhances community identity and value.

    For more information about new urbanism, see the article Welcome to
    the New Urbanism.

    Hey, you can even check such neighborhoods near you and take a spin
    with your bike --which I plan to do.

    TND Neighborhoods by State and Country

    http://tndtownpaper.com/neighborhoods.htm


    WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION?
    (reason #1000: because we need to live in bike friendly places)
    http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution
     
    Tags:


  2. "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]m...
    > We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    > and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    > neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
    >


    Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    "European style" cities.
     
  3. On Jun 9, 4:16 pm, "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > news:[email protected]m...
    >
    > > We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    > > and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    > > neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

    >
    >    Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    > "European style" cities.


    Not sure what you mean, that Europeans cities are mostly populated by
    immigrants?

    Well, they don't live in American style sprawls either. And before
    they build they think about public transportation.
     
  4. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article
    <[email protected]m>,
    ComandanteBanana <[email protected]> wrote:

    > We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    > and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    > neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.


    You do know that utopianism doesn't work, right?
     
  5. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]m
    > ...
    > > We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    > > and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    > > neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
    > >

    >
    > Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    > "European style" cities.


    What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
    that matter.
     
  6. CJ

    CJ Guest

    On 9 Jun, 21:16, "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > news:[email protected]m...
    >
    > > We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    > > and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    > > neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

    >
    >    Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    > "European style" cities.


    It's true, there are also rather a lot of sprawling "American style"
    developments in Europe, but the kind of urban environment he's talking
    about is sufficiently common in most European countries for that to be
    a useful label.

    The interesting question is how will one transform into the other.
     
  7. "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]m
    > > ...
    > > > We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    > > > and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    > > > neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
    > > >

    > >
    > > Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    > > "European style" cities.

    >
    > What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
    > that matter.


    The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
    of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
    pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer I
    lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
    fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
    city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.
     
  8. "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > In article
    > <[email protected]m>,
    > ComandanteBanana <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    > > and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    > > neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

    >
    > You do know that utopianism doesn't work, right?


    Even in Europe when people get the chance to decompress they do so.
     
  9. David Hansen

    David Hansen Guest

    On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 06:54:20 -0400 someone who may be "George
    Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote this:-

    >Even in Europe when people get the chance to decompress they do so.


    That would be why house prices are much higher in the densely packed
    central areas of places like Edinburgh, Paris and Amsterdam (to name
    just a few European cities) compared to the less densely packed
    areas outwith the central areas?

    In these and other cities those who can afford to live in the
    densely packed areas, it is the poor who are pushed to the "outer
    darkness" low density areas.



    --
    David Hansen, Edinburgh
    I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
     
  10. George Conklin schrieb:
    > "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected].com...
    >> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    >> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    >> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
    >>

    >
    > Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    > "European style" cities.


    Where else do WE Europeans live? Come on tell it to me over the big pond!

    Tadej
    --
    "Frauen sind als Gesprächspartner nun einmal interessanter,
    weil das Gespräch nicht beendet ist, wenn nichts sinnvolles mehr zu
    sagen ist."
    <David Kastrup in d.t.r>
     
  11. George Conklin schrieb:
    > "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> In article <[email protected]>,
    >> "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected]m
    >>> ...
    >>>> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    >>>> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    >>>> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
    >>>>
    >>> Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    >>> "European style" cities.

    >> What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
    >> that matter.

    >
    > The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
    > of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
    > pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer I
    > lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
    > fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
    > city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.


    It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
    in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
    very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
    continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?

    True, Europe isn't perfect either.

    Tadej
    --
    "Frauen sind als Gesprächspartner nun einmal interessanter,
    weil das Gespräch nicht beendet ist, wenn nichts sinnvolles mehr zu
    sagen ist."
    <David Kastrup in d.t.r>
     
  12. CJ schrieb:
    > On 9 Jun, 21:16, "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>
    >> news:[email protected]m...
    >>
    >>> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    >>> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    >>> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

    >> Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    >> "European style" cities.

    >
    > It's true, there are also rather a lot of sprawling "American style"
    > developments in Europe, but the kind of urban environment he's talking
    > about is sufficiently common in most European countries for that to be
    > a useful label.
    >
    > The interesting question is how will one transform into the other.


    Easy, although not easy to practically realise due to people's
    addictions: erase the car as basis of all design elements, rules and
    regulations and put the pedestrian, bike and LRT in.

    For all the narrowed vision readers her: i didn't write erase the car
    from the cities, but erase it as the dominator all rules are revolving
    around.

    Tadej
    --
    "Frauen sind als Gesprächspartner nun einmal interessanter,
    weil das Gespräch nicht beendet ist, wenn nichts sinnvolles mehr zu
    sagen ist."
    <David Kastrup in d.t.r>
     
  13. George Conklin schrieb:
    > "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> In article
    >> <[email protected]m>,
    >> ComandanteBanana <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    >>> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    >>> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

    >> You do know that utopianism doesn't work, right?

    >
    > Even in Europe when people get the chance to decompress they do so.


    bileveled bogus:
    1. People do not decompress, but it is the geographically inherent
    property of cities all over the world to almost all times (except for
    eg. walled cities) that they, when there's no explicit physical
    boundary, lose density from city level to rural level at its fringes.
    3. Density is to be looked upon dually: high in neighbourhoods of the
    economically weaker groups, but also high in central neighbourhoods of
    wealthier groups.
    Of course there are also peripheral settlements of poorer and rich elements.

    Tadej
    --
    "Frauen sind als Gesprächspartner nun einmal interessanter,
    weil das Gespräch nicht beendet ist, wenn nichts sinnvolles mehr zu
    sagen ist."
    <David Kastrup in d.t.r>
     
  14. "Tadej Brezina" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > George Conklin schrieb:
    >> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>> In article <[email protected]>,
    >>> "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>> news:[email protected]m
    >>>> ...
    >>>>> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    >>>>> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    >>>>> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    >>>> "European style" cities.
    >>> What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
    >>> that matter.

    >>
    >> The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most
    >> residents
    >> of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he
    >> shows
    >> pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer
    >> I
    >> lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but
    >> in
    >> fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
    >> city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

    >
    > It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially in
    > Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being very
    > strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of continental
    > Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?


    I lived in a single family house (on a large lot, no less) in Germany. I
    could still walk or bike to any place in town. And if you were willing to
    spend some time at it, it was possible to walk to the next town as well,
    though it was quicker to bike.
     
  15. On Jun 10, 8:49 am, Tadej Brezina <[email protected]> wrote:
    > George Conklin schrieb:
    >
    > > "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]m...
    > >> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    > >> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    > >> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

    >
    > >    Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    > > "European style" cities.

    >
    > Where else do WE Europeans live? Come on tell it to me over the big pond!


    I think he means there are lot of foreigners there.
     
  16. On Jun 10, 8:52 am, Tadej Brezina <[email protected]> wrote:
    > George Conklin schrieb:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]
    > >> In article <[email protected]>,
    > >>  "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > >>> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >>>news:[email protected]m
    > >>> ...
    > >>>> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    > >>>> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    > >>>> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

    >
    > >>>  Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    > >>> "European style" cities.
    > >> What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs."  Still are, for
    > >> that matter.

    >
    > >    The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
    > > of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
    > > pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city.  The summer I
    > > lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
    > > fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
    > > city.  The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

    >
    > It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
    > in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
    > very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
    > continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
    >
    > True, Europe isn't perfect either.


    One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
    must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
    the SUV to impress the neighbors...

    How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
    still too many. ;)
     
  17. On Jun 10, 12:48 am, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
    > In article
    > <[email protected]m>,
    >
    >  ComandanteBanana <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    > > and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    > > neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

    >
    > You do know that utopianism doesn't work, right?


    Urban sprawl IS American utopianism.

    Maybe you are right. ;)
     
  18. On Jun 10, 6:30 am, CJ <[email protected]> wrote:
    > On 9 Jun, 21:16, "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    >
    > >news:[email protected]m...

    >
    > > > We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
    > > > and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
    > > > neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

    >
    > > Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
    > > "European style" cities.

    >
    > It's true, there are also rather a lot of sprawling "American style"
    > developments in Europe, but the kind of urban environment he's talking
    > about is sufficiently common in most European countries for that to be
    > a useful label.
    >
    > The interesting question is how will one transform into the other.


    Some kind of major change must occur for it to happen. McCain is
    business as usual, and Obama more of the same. Still, the former is a
    "liberal" and the latter a "socialist" to the American Christian
    voter ... So any European leader would be a "communist"...

    'HOLD MY NOSE'

    Dan Yoder, the pastor of a small country church in Springfield,
    Tennessee, said, "I'm going to have to hold my nose while I vote for
    McCain ... but Obama's a die-hard socialist."

    Obama, a senator from Illinois who would be America's first black
    president, is right off the scale for many conservative evangelicals
    because of his liberal voting record, his opposition to the Iraq war
    and his support for abortion rights.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080610/pl_nm/usa_politics_baptists_mccain_dc
     
  19. See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
    happen before we a Bike Friendly World...

    To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
    sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
    transportation as well.

    This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
    excluding the war in Iraq...

    "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
    fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

    http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080608/NEWS/806080327
     
  20. On Jun 10, 6:53 am, "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >    The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
    > of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
    > pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city.  The summer I
    > lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
    > fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
    > city.  The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.-


    But unlike American cities, Paris and other European cities are
    becoming bike friendly places...

    (But perhaps all we need is some "visionary mayor" or a "public
    transportation strike." I'll take note about them in the list of
    things that must happen. Why things like that don't happen over here?)

    Budapest looks to Paris as it launches new cycling program
    May 25, 2008

    BUDAPEST (AFP) — Budapest city hall is slowly embracing the idea
    already grasped by some commuters: that there is a two-wheel solution
    to the city's traffic problems and the resultant soaring levels of
    pollution.

    In Paris, it took a devoted mayor and a month-long public transport
    strike to turn bicycles into an attractive option for local people.

    In Budapest, the starring role has gone to Deputy Mayor Miklos Hagyo:
    a corpulent figure, he is perhaps unlikely poster boy.

    But sporadic strike action over several months by the Hungarian public
    transport unions has helped to press home the urgency of the problem.

    http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gQ5NXT8wR0BdnAJX5rf1ezLso80w
     
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