Before We See a Bike Friendly World

[ComandanteBanana]

OK, going back to the subject of visionary mayor...

Originally Posted by John E
"My solution to the problem is to preserve our mid-density single
family neighborhoods (mine is built at a quite livable 6.5 units /
acre), but to redevelop our sprawling one- and two-story business
parks into three-story mixed-use nodes, with commerce (retail,
restaurants, etc.) on the bottom, office/professional in the middle,
and penthouse apartments on the top."

Nobody thought of calling the demolition squads to the suburbs, so
here is a better idea...

Public transportation shuttles bikes to the outskirts, and from there
people take off on the bike. Similar to Curitiba model, in which of a
web of roads spread out from the city center, but with accomodation
for bikes. The best bikes for that are the foldable, which can be
taken inside the bus.

Then all we need is a visionary mayor like that of Curitiba, something
hard to find around here.

Curitiba and its visionary mayor
Residents of Curitiba, Brazil, think they live in the best city in the
world, and a lot of outsiders agree. Curibita has 17 new parks, 90
miles of bike paths, trees everywhere, and traffic and garbage systems
that officials from other cities come to study. Curibita's mayor for
twelve years, Jaime Lerner, has a 92 per cent approval rating.

(many good ideas here, for mayors and non-mayors alike) !!!

http://www.globalideasbank.org/site/...hp?ideaId=2236

 

[ComandanteBanana]

Originally Posted by genec
'The bottom line is that people don't "live" in Europe, they live in
Spain or France or Germany, etc. and within those countries they live
in states, and within those states they live in cities or towns or
villages... just as we live within states, and cities, and within
those cities there are usually districts... the bottom line is that
we, both Europeans and us, live in small subdivided areas that can be
quite bike friendly or quite the opposite... depending on the policies
and designs of the larger governing bodies. All of Europe for instance
is not bike friendly, but the areas that are can be somewhat
replicated here... one thing that is decidedly not bike friendly are
newer developments that have high speed arterial roads branching off
into isolated gated subsections. That is a decidedly American
development that tends to also isolate neighborhoods.

Certain neighborhoods here in America have been decidedly designed
around the auto, and that sort of design often is not bike friendly.
That can be changed. And it will have to be changed before we see a
bike friendly America.'


Amen!

But just a note: usually Europe is either friendly to bikes (Northern
Europe) or public transporation (Southern Europe), and some areas are
both (again, Northern Europe).

Few developments there place you in the middle of nowhere with no
means to get out, other than by SUV. That's the American way...

 

[Amy Blankenship]

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
> happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>
> To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
> sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
> transportation as well.
>
> This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
> excluding the war in Iraq...
>
> "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
> fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

At the same time?

 

[RicodJour]

On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
> > happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>
> > To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
> > sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
> > transportation as well.
>
> > This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
> > excluding the war in Iraq...
>
> > "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
> > fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."
>
> At the same time?

What? You never heard of multitasking?

BTW, Amy, your name came up over in alt.architecture.

R

 

[Amy Blankenship]

"RicodJour" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
>> > happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>>
>> > To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
>> > sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
>> > transportation as well.
>>
>> > This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
>> > excluding the war in Iraq...
>>
>> > "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
>> > fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."
>>
>> At the same time?
>
> What? You never heard of multitasking?
>
> BTW, Amy, your name came up over in alt.architecture.

Sorry...it slipped.

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
> > happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>
> > To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
> > sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
> > transportation as well.
>
> > This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
> > excluding the war in Iraq...
>
> > "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
> > fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."
>
> At the same time?

There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
are free down there.

 

[Amy Blankenship]

"ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:201f894b-e589-4592-92d5-458fee264fb3@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
> > happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>
> > To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
> > sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
> > transportation as well.
>
> > This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
> > excluding the war in Iraq...
>
> > "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
> > fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."
>
> At the same time?

There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
are free down there.
----------------

How do you keep your foot on the accelerator of an electric car while
pedaling a bicycle?

Just wondering...

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Jun 10, 5:35 pm, "Amy Blankenship"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:201f894b-e589-4592-92d5-458fee264fb3@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 10, 11:48 am, "Amy Blankenship"
>
>
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >news:69a02c35-7cfc-41d3-a140-0d328a864276@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
> > > happen before we a Bike Friendly World...
>
> > > To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
> > > sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
> > > transportation as well.
>
> > > This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
> > > excluding the war in Iraq...
>
> > > "One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
> > > fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."
>
> > At the same time?
>
> There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
> happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
> bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
> are free down there.
> ----------------
>
> How do you keep your foot on the accelerator of an electric car while
> pedaling a bicycle?
>
> Just wondering...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Here's the solution to the dilemma...

http://nycewheels.com/ezee-quando-electric-folding-bike.html

They are EVs and bike at the same time.

 

[Bill Sornson]

Amy Blankenship wrote:

> There's a republic near America {snip}
> ... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
> bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
> are free down there.

You misspelled "wasted".

 

[Amy Blankenship]

"Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>
>> There's a republic near America {snip}
>> ... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
>> bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
>> are free down there.
>
> You misspelled "wasted".

Misattributed. That wasn't me...

 

[ComandanteBanana]

(Writing from Miami Beach, USA)

Originally Posted by SSP
"No offense, but the more you talk about it, the more Hellish it
sounds.

Bikes are meant to be ridden out of doors, for transport, commuting,
and recreation. Being forced to ride a stationary bike because the
roads are too dangerous for a 2 mile commute would be more than enough
for me to consider moving.

Life's too short to spend it living in Hell."


Well, life's more than a bike!

It's also kayaking, in which I use a survival technique developed by
the little mammals 100 million years ago... GO OUT AT NIGHT!

And besides, we have been promised a Green Beltway or something like
that would allow us to ride all the way up to Boston! Don't know
though if it'll happen before the Mars colonization.

 

[Bill Sornson]

Amy Blankenship wrote:
> "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Amy Blankenship wrote:
>>
>>> There's a republic near America {snip}
>>> ... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
>>> bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think
>>> they are free down there.
>>
>> You misspelled "wasted".
>
> Misattributed. That wasn't me...

???

 

[RicodJour]

On Jun 10, 4:15 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> There's a republic near America where they do both and are the very
> happy... the Conch Republic aka Key West. Lots of scooters, EVs and
> bikes, which you can rent. I love the atmosphere. I really think they
> are free down there.

They rent things for free?

R

 

[Tadej Brezina]

ComandanteBanana schrieb:
> On Jun 10, 8:52 am, Tadej Brezina <[email protected]> wrote:
>> George Conklin schrieb:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4645c510-69ea-4097-93ef-68d02ec25dde@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
>>>>>> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
>>>>>> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
>>>>> Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
>>>>> "European style" cities.
>>>> What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
>>>> that matter.
>>> The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
>>> of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
>>> pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer I
>>> lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
>>> fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
>>> city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.
>> It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
>> in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
>> very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
>> continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
>>
>> True, Europe isn't perfect either.
>
> One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
> must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
> the SUV to impress the neighbors...

True, the afternoon and evening-programs are full of low quality US TV
shows. Often subliminally glorifying American lifestyle and anchoring it
with the positive emotions of us being the allged land of the free,
beautiful, happy, etc.

Ad impress the neighbours.
I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do
you materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the
neighbour with the same just in blue?

> How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
> still too many.

The on-street perceived prevalence is dramatically increasing. But the
statistics say some other picture. Some low single digit percentage I do
not have at hand right now.

Tadej
--
"Frauen sind als Gesprächspartner nun einmal interessanter,
weil das Gespräch nicht beendet ist, wenn nichts sinnvolles mehr zu
sagen ist."
<David Kastrup in d.t.r>

 

[Amy Blankenship]

"Tadej Brezina" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>> On Jun 10, 8:52 am, Tadej Brezina <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> George Conklin schrieb:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>> "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4645c510-69ea-4097-93ef-68d02ec25dde@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
>>>>>>> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
>>>>>>> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
>>>>>> Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
>>>>>> "European style" cities.
>>>>> What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
>>>>> that matter.
>>>> The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most
>>>> residents
>>>> of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he
>>>> shows
>>>> pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The
>>>> summer I
>>>> lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots,
>>>> but in
>>>> fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned
>>>> European
>>>> city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.
>>> It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
>>> in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
>>> very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
>>> continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
>>>
>>> True, Europe isn't perfect either.
>>
>> One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
>> must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
>> the SUV to impress the neighbors...
>
> True, the afternoon and evening-programs are full of low quality US TV
> shows. Often subliminally glorifying American lifestyle and anchoring it
> with the positive emotions of us being the allged land of the free,
> beautiful, happy, etc.
>
> Ad impress the neighbours.
> I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do you
> materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the neighbour
> with the same just in blue?

I think it's more "Look how homogenous we are, especially compared to THOSE
people. Keep up the good work! You too!"

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Jun 11, 2:49 am, Tadej Brezina <[email protected]> wrote:
> ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 8:52 am, Tadej Brezina <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> George Conklin schrieb:
>
> >>> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>> In article <[email protected]>,
> >>>>  "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:4645c510-69ea-4097-93ef-68d02ec25dde@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>>> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
> >>>>>> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
> >>>>>> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
> >>>>>  Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
> >>>>> "European style" cities.
> >>>> What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs."  Still are, for
> >>>> that matter.
> >>>    The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
> >>> of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
> >>> pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city.  The summer I
> >>> lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
> >>> fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
> >>> city.  The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.
> >> It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
> >> in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
> >> very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
> >> continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
>
> >> True, Europe isn't perfect either.
>
> > One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
> > must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
> > the SUV to impress the neighbors...
>
> True, the afternoon and evening-programs are full of low quality US TV
> shows. Often subliminally glorifying American lifestyle and anchoring it
> with the positive emotions of us being the allged land of the free,
> beautiful, happy, etc.

I'm all for labeling cigarettes and American TV shows with the same
message: "THIS IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH AND OTHERS, STUPID!"

>
> Ad impress the neighbours.
> I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do
> you materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the
> neighbour with the same just in blue?

Well, it's not only the color, it's also the rims, which can sometimes
can be quite flashy --and expensive...

http://www.fastcoolcars.com/images/pimpedcars1/40inch-chrome-rims.jpg

The thing is that you must stand out, even if you look cheap.

>
> > How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
> > still too many.
>
> The on-street perceived prevalence is dramatically increasing. But the
> statistics say some other picture. Some low single digit percentage I do
> not have at hand right now.

So long as they remain under .001% of vehicles, they shouldn't be a
problem.

Tell me, how prevalent are the GATED COMMUNITIES, which I consider
another byproduct of Banana Republic (together with the SUVs). Quite
common in place like Costa Rica, and even South Florida, but out of
place in W. Europe, I hope. This is important since there are
proposals like these in the website above...

"The proposed germanization of South Florida is seen by many in the
region as the only way to guarantee some form of solidity and peace."

 

[ComandanteBanana]

Originally Posted by crhilton
"I think the trouble is that we're just too obsessed with our homes.
Your house is the American dream, and the American dream is the
brainwashing every child grows up with. Sometimes it's expanded to
cars and the consumption of meat, but it's mostly about the house."

You're right. The Big House is a Big Problem. And everything big is a
big problem.

And bicycles are a big part of the solution...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The revolution starts when you ride a bike. You think of it as a
kinder, gentler vehicle that will help keep Peace as well as save the
Environment, and make you Sexy."

http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution

 

[Tadej Brezina]

ComandanteBanana schrieb:
> On Jun 11, 2:49 am, Tadej Brezina <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 10, 8:52 am, Tadej Brezina <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> George Conklin schrieb:
>>>>> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4645c510-69ea-4097-93ef-68d02ec25dde@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
>>>>>>>> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
>>>>>>>> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
>>>>>>> Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
>>>>>>> "European style" cities.
>>>>>> What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
>>>>>> that matter.
>>>>> The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
>>>>> of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
>>>>> pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer I
>>>>> lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
>>>>> fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
>>>>> city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.
>>>> It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
>>>> in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
>>>> very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
>>>> continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
>>>> True, Europe isn't perfect either.
>>> One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
>>> must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
>>> the SUV to impress the neighbors...
>> True, the afternoon and evening-programs are full of low quality US TV
>> shows. Often subliminally glorifying American lifestyle and anchoring it
>> with the positive emotions of us being the allged land of the free,
>> beautiful, happy, etc.
>
> I'm all for labeling cigarettes and American TV shows with the same
> message: "THIS IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH AND OTHERS, STUPID!"
>
>> Ad impress the neighbours.
>> I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do
>> you materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the
>> neighbour with the same just in blue?
>
> Well, it's not only the color, it's also the rims, which can sometimes
> can be quite flashy --and expensive...
>
> http://www.fastcoolcars.com/images/pimpedcars1/40inch-chrome-rims.jpg
>
> The thing is that you must stand out, even if you look cheap.
>
>>> How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
>>> still too many.
>> The on-street perceived prevalence is dramatically increasing. But the
>> statistics say some other picture. Some low single digit percentage I do
>> not have at hand right now.
>
> So long as they remain under .001% of vehicles, they shouldn't be a
> problem.
>
> Tell me, how prevalent are the GATED COMMUNITIES, which I consider
> another byproduct of Banana Republic (together with the SUVs). Quite
> common in place like Costa Rica, and even South Florida, but out of
> place in W. Europe, I hope. This is important since there are
> proposals like these in the website above...

The only gated community in Austria I know of, are the streets, where
the Israeli and US Embassies are located.
In our cities and towns the well off live quite normal within the city
fabric. There are of course better precincts, but everybody can walk,
drive, ride, stroll everywhere.
No urgent need to fence oneself off, as the social discrepancies aren't
that extreme.

Tadej
--
"Frauen sind als Gesprächspartner nun einmal interessanter,
weil das Gespräch nicht beendet ist, wenn nichts sinnvolles mehr zu
sagen ist."
<David Kastrup in d.t.r>

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Jun 11, 2:27 pm, Tadej Brezina <[email protected]> wrote:
> ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 11, 2:49 am, Tadej Brezina <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> ComandanteBanana schrieb:
>
> >>> On Jun 10, 8:52 am, Tadej Brezina <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> George Conklin schrieb:
> >>>>> "Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
> >>>>>>  "George Conklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>> "ComandanteBanana" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:4645c510-69ea-4097-93ef-68d02ec25dde@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com
> >>>>>>> ...
> >>>>>>>> We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
> >>>>>>>> and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
> >>>>>>>> neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
> >>>>>>>  Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
> >>>>>>> "European style" cities.
> >>>>>> What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs."  Still are, for
> >>>>>> that matter.
> >>>>>    The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
> >>>>> of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
> >>>>> pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city.  Thesummer I
> >>>>> lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
> >>>>> fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
> >>>>> city.  The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.
> >>>> It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
> >>>> in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
> >>>> very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
> >>>> continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?
> >>>> True, Europe isn't perfect either.
> >>> One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
> >>> must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
> >>> the SUV to impress the neighbors...
> >> True, the afternoon and evening-programs are full of low quality US TV
> >> shows. Often subliminally glorifying American lifestyle and anchoring it
> >> with the positive emotions of us being the allged land of the free,
> >> beautiful, happy, etc.
>
> > I'm all for labeling cigarettes and American TV shows with the same
> > message: "THIS IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH AND OTHERS, STUPID!"
>
> >> Ad impress the neighbours.
> >> I was always curious, regarding those MC-Mansion-Subdivisions, how do
> >> you materially - if your' in desperate need to do so - impress the
> >> neighbour with the same just in blue?
>
> > Well, it's not only the color, it's also the rims, which can sometimes
> > can be quite flashy --and expensive...
>
> >http://www.fastcoolcars.com/images/pimpedcars1/40inch-chrome-rims.jpg
>
> > The thing is that you must stand out, even if you look cheap.
>
> >>> How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
> >>> still too many.
> >> The on-street perceived prevalence is dramatically increasing. But the
> >> statistics say some other picture. Some low single digit percentage I do
> >> not have at hand right now.
>
> > So long as they remain under .001% of vehicles, they shouldn't be a
> > problem.
>
> > Tell me, how prevalent are the GATED COMMUNITIES, which I consider
> > another byproduct of Banana Republic (together with the SUVs). Quite
> > common in place like Costa Rica, and even South Florida, but out of
> > place in W. Europe, I hope. This is important since there are
> > proposals like these in the website above...
>
> The only gated community in Austria I know of, are the streets, where
> the Israeli and US Embassies are located.

It seems that only those that have something to fear get behind
gates...

> In our cities and towns the well off live quite normal within the city
> fabric. There are of course better precincts, but everybody can walk,
> drive, ride, stroll everywhere.
> No urgent need to fence oneself off, as the social discrepancies aren't
> that extreme.

In other places the lions are separated from the monkeys. They should
instead tame the jungle, no?

 

[ComandanteBanana]

(These guys are pushing me to ride a bike to lead the revolution. Is
it fair?)

Originally Posted by noisebeam
"If you really don't like pollution and don't like cars, why don't you
just get up 10min earlier - be part of the solution you ask for.
Perhaps you are out kayaking too late at night."

....

I can understand the criticism of the last two posts (do what you
preach), but let me remind you that I'm not willing to die just as a
dog.

If I die riding a bike, it will be for a cause (the revolution),
wearing T-shirts that will make us part of an organized effort.

Hey, no profits. Just for the revolution.

***

Originally Posted by SSP
'No offense, but...what ****!

Real "revolutionaries" risked "their lives, their fortunes, and their
sacred honor" to found this country.

Someone who sells anti-oil T-shirts, but is afraid to ride on the
streets, hardly qualifies as a "revolutionary".


It's as if George Washington didn't cross the Potomac in the dead of
winter, but instead sold silly signs criticizing the British.
Sheesh....'

....

Wrong metaphor: NO GENERAL WOULD LAUNCH A REVOLUTION WITHOUT AN
ARMY!!!

You'd need at least a troop of monkeys!

By the way, monkeys are smarter than dogs.