beginner - is steel frame ok?
- Thread starter claytdog
- Start date
There are some very light steel frames and some very heavy aluminium ones. Good steel is good, and gives a better ride than aluminium because steel is resiliant and alu isn't, so has to be built into a stiff frame to avoid fatigue. It depends on how much cash you are willing to part with whether you get a decent bike or not, rather than what it is built out of. Avoid "hi-ten" steel tho', that will be heavy.claytdog said:
Don's right. Good steel is good. I've always ridden steel and wouldn't change. (Except maybe for some nice titanium - if I had the cash)claytdog said:
Steel will also last a lot longer than Aluminium and can be more easily repaired in the event of damage. (This is why Alu bikes tend to have replaceable gear hangers)
Go for something like Reynolds 853 or decent Columbus tubing.
The Wheelist.
I agree completely with the two previous posts.
Before I got a road bike I ended up buying a steel fixed gear frame. Loved the thing, the ride is great and never had any problems.
Steel can get light, Waterford, a high-end steel frame company, fitted their lightest ever steel frame with dura-ace compenents etc and the bike weighed 16lbs. So its possible.
Like mentioned above, Reynolds 853 is a good start. And steel is not bad for a beginner or even a seasoned veteran.
Before I got a road bike I ended up buying a steel fixed gear frame. Loved the thing, the ride is great and never had any problems.
Steel can get light, Waterford, a high-end steel frame company, fitted their lightest ever steel frame with dura-ace compenents etc and the bike weighed 16lbs. So its possible.
Like mentioned above, Reynolds 853 is a good start. And steel is not bad for a beginner or even a seasoned veteran.
The weight difference between steel and aluminum has been greatly over hyped by people who want to sell you aluminum. For a given price range, steel isn't that much heavier. And since the frame is the single most expensive part of the bike and typically accounts for less than 25% of the overall weight, the durability is worth being a little heavier.claytdog said:
Wow...looks like everyone else has beat me to the punch. LOTS of good info already said.
Don't get caught up in the XXXXX metal is so much lighter. 99% of all people should worry less about their bike weight, and more about their OWN weight.
There's a reason steel is STILL the one frame style that every other style is compared to. I still race on steel bike(s). Actually steel is all I own. Don't let your riding level dictate WHAT you ride.
Let us know what you end up getting, or if you have any other questions.
Don't get caught up in the XXXXX metal is so much lighter. 99% of all people should worry less about their bike weight, and more about their OWN weight.
There's a reason steel is STILL the one frame style that every other style is compared to. I still race on steel bike(s). Actually steel is all I own. Don't let your riding level dictate WHAT you ride.
Let us know what you end up getting, or if you have any other questions.
I have two steel bikes. One an older lugged frame and a new tig weldeded Deda 16.5. I also have one aluminum bike. The Aluminum is nice but I prefer the steel because I like how it soaks up the road. I think steel makes a nice bike for anyone. Just make sure to keep it dry.claytdog said:
Funny, I have two 531 steel Raleighs with steel forks, and a custom Zonal AL/CF bike with CF fork. My custom bike rides smoother than either of the old steel bikes. In fact, the heavyweight lugged 531 Gran Sport from 1975 is pretty much of a rock.PeterF said:
Apples to oranges you say? Sure, but my point is these generalizations don't mean much. A Deda 16.5 steel frame may feel better than an AL Trek 1000, but that doesn't mean all steel frames ride better than all AL or CF frames.
To me, a new rider needs to get to the LBS, buy a major-brand AL bike, and ride it. The odds of him ever wearing out the frame from normal use are very slim, and distinctions in ride quality due to frame materials are subtle at best. He just doesn't need to be distracted with either of those issues.
Funny, I have a few 531 steel frames.......dhk said:
I have a '70s 531 frame which is a bit of a heavy rock, and kinda stiff, yet my 1988 531 Raleigh is smoooth and springy. I have 2 other early '90s 531s which are a little too flexy
I have 3 aluminium frames, 2 of which are typical alu (a little stiff and rough), but the other one rides like a dream.
Steel is a great way to go. I have ridden light steel frames for many years and it is hard to beat the ride quality of a good steel bike. throw on a nice carbon fork and call it a day..claytdog said:
" The weight difference between steel and aluminum has been greatly over hyped by people who want to sell you aluminum."
EXACTLY! Steel and aluminium have roughly the same weight-to-strength ratio. So building an optimum design with certain strength, durability (fatigue) specs will end up with structures weighing roughly the same (as is titanium as well). Good steel frames will weigh about the same as an equivalent alloy version. Steelman in Los Gatos makes the lightest steel frames I've ever seen from French Excel tubing and they're about 3.25-4.00 lbs, about the same as an alloy Vitus....and about just as soft and wet-noodle like as well. Add another 1/2 lb in material with larger diameter tubing and you'd have enough ridigity to shake your fillings loose.
Only problem is the mechanical crumpling factor of 1:50 in wall-thickness to diameter ratio. Since aluminium is less dense, you can make it of higher wall-thickness to build larger-diamter tubes of the same weight... thus it's possible to build stiffer frames from aluminium than steel of the same weight, a la Cannondale & Klein.
FWIW, I bought a French alloy Comete frame back in the '80s. It was marketed with all this fanfare of using Concorde glueless/weldless construction techniques... It was certainy a wet-noodle and after a year I ripped it apart on a final push at the end of a time-trial...
EXACTLY! Steel and aluminium have roughly the same weight-to-strength ratio. So building an optimum design with certain strength, durability (fatigue) specs will end up with structures weighing roughly the same (as is titanium as well). Good steel frames will weigh about the same as an equivalent alloy version. Steelman in Los Gatos makes the lightest steel frames I've ever seen from French Excel tubing and they're about 3.25-4.00 lbs, about the same as an alloy Vitus....and about just as soft and wet-noodle like as well. Add another 1/2 lb in material with larger diameter tubing and you'd have enough ridigity to shake your fillings loose.
Only problem is the mechanical crumpling factor of 1:50 in wall-thickness to diameter ratio. Since aluminium is less dense, you can make it of higher wall-thickness to build larger-diamter tubes of the same weight... thus it's possible to build stiffer frames from aluminium than steel of the same weight, a la Cannondale & Klein.
FWIW, I bought a French alloy Comete frame back in the '80s. It was marketed with all this fanfare of using Concorde glueless/weldless construction techniques... It was certainy a wet-noodle and after a year I ripped it apart on a final push at the end of a time-trial...
Agree with some of your points about wall thickness and weight, but where do you come up with your examples of AL frame weights? Vitus is hardly a valid comparison point. Only a low-end AL frame would weigh 4 lbs. Lot's of stiff, strong and durable AL frames come at or under 3 lbs these days, but how many steel do?DannoXYZ said:" The weight difference between steel and aluminum has been greatly over hyped by people who want to sell you aluminum."
EXACTLY! Steel and aluminium have roughly the same weight-to-strength ratio. So building an optimum design with certain strength, durability (fatigue) specs will end up with structures weighing roughly the same (as is titanium as well). Good steel frames will weigh about the same as an equivalent alloy version. Steelman in Los Gatos makes the lightest steel frames I've ever seen from French Excel tubing and they're about 3.25-4.00 lbs, about the same as an alloy Vitus....and about just as soft and wet-noodle like as well. Add another 1/2 lb in material with larger diameter tubing and you'd have enough ridigity to shake your fillings loose.
Only problem is the mechanical crumpling factor of 1:50 in wall-thickness to diameter ratio. Since aluminium is less dense, you can make it of higher wall-thickness to build larger-diamter tubes of the same weight... thus it's possible to build stiffer frames from aluminium than steel of the same weight, a la Cannondale & Klein.
FWIW, I bought a French alloy Comete frame back in the '80s. It was marketed with all this fanfare of using Concorde glueless/weldless construction techniques... It was certainy a wet-noodle and after a year I ripped it apart on a final push at the end of a time-trial...
Most everyone I ride with has some respect for steel; it's what us older guys grew up with. Have two older steel bikes, and wouldn't mind a custom Foco or UltraFoco bike to go with my AL/CF hotrod. But on a stiffness to weight basis, steel just doesn't compete anymore with AL or CF. Based on the tests I seen, it doesn't compete on a fatigue basis either, even though it's heavier.
Here's where I got alot of my data: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard
specifically the FEA page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/fea.htm
the test standards: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/standards.htm
and frame fatigue test: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/EFBe/frame_fatigue_test.htm
frame-flex: http://www.bikethink.com/Frameflex.htm
Yeah, some of it's a little dated, I'd like to see some more recent data on modern frames with the same testing-regimen if I can find it. Something using lugless monocoque-type contruction on large-diameter steel frames like Serotta or Steelman would be interesting. There's also a difference between elastic and inelastic bending. For a beginner rider, I just don't think the constrasts between ultimately-optimized designs in any material would make much of a difference. Heck, you can get started on a $76 garage-sale special and that'd be fine for the 1st year.
specifically the FEA page: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/fea.htm
the test standards: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/standards.htm
and frame fatigue test: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/EFBe/frame_fatigue_test.htm
frame-flex: http://www.bikethink.com/Frameflex.htm
Yeah, some of it's a little dated, I'd like to see some more recent data on modern frames with the same testing-regimen if I can find it. Something using lugless monocoque-type contruction on large-diameter steel frames like Serotta or Steelman would be interesting. There's also a difference between elastic and inelastic bending. For a beginner rider, I just don't think the constrasts between ultimately-optimized designs in any material would make much of a difference. Heck, you can get started on a $76 garage-sale special and that'd be fine for the 1st year.
Similar threads
