Beginning of the end or the end of the beginning?



In article <[email protected]>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote:

> >> It is not odd to protect your biggest asset. If they have another
> >> tainted
> >> tdf it will be crippling for business. Contador and Astana both make
> >> that
> >> likely. Contador because he is involved with Puerto. Astana because
> >> they
> >> **** the bed last year and that WAS their second chance. The remnants of
> >> tailwind is a red herring that the fans of Trek sponsored riders like to
> >> throw out.
> >>

> >
> > If they want a clean race they have to make sure
> > nobody is _caught_ doping. <wink>

>
> Which is exactly the problem. The ASO should see positive doping tests as an
> indication that things are working, and a sign to others that they might get
> caught. A lack of positive tests is not, to me, a good sign that people
> aren't doping. Rather, my cynical viewpoint is that it's a sign that people
> aren't getting caught.


The problem, of course, with this enlightened view, is that it implies
that if you are not catching witches, then you are not hunting hard
enough.

Of course, cycling suffers from a very real witch infestation, which
only makes the problem of witchlessness harder, eh? I mean, if what
we're doing now starts working, when will we know?

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
 
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Of course, cycling suffers from a very real witch infestation,


You mean the podium girls ? :
<http://www.joyofspex.com/models/zilleImages/zille_witch/index.html>
 
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Of course, cycling suffers from a very real witch infestation, which
> only makes the problem of witchlessness harder, eh? I mean, if what
> we're doing now starts working, when will we know?


Sport, not just cycling but all of sport, has never been
threatened with witchlessness.

So I wouldn't be concerned with not recognizing when things
start working.

Bob Schwartz
 
In article <[email protected]>,
jean-yves hervé <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Michael Press <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > jean-yves hervé <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > I have no problem doing that because not so long ago they did not
> > > operate Paris-Nice, and I don't think that they operate the Dauphiné
> > > (yet). Actually they probably own fewer than 20% of races run in
> > > France.

> >
> > Which 20%?

>
> The 20% that actually makes money, either directly or because it drives
> the sales of l'Équipe. As far as I know ASO only owns the Tour,
> Paris-Roubaix, Paris-Nice, and Paris-Tour (I am only talking of races
> held in France). That leaves out quite a few races, but of these only
> the Dauphiné Libéré, le Criterium International, les 4 Jours de
> Dunkerque, Paris-Bourges, and maybe the Gd Prix de la Montagne and the
> Gd Prix de Plouaix, draw any attention at all out of France.


Thanks.

--
Michael Press
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Donald Munro <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > Of course, cycling suffers from a very real witch infestation,

>
> You mean the podium girls ? :
> <http://www.joyofspex.com/models/zilleImages/zille_witch/index.html>


No I do not mean the podium girls. You're also trying to get me in
trouble with the missus, just like Ted. I should have know better than
to follow the link.

Honestly, my guess was you were linking to another picture of the Volta
ao Algarve podium girls. They weren't exactly witches, but conversely I
think they're about as likely to get invited to Le Tour as Astana.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> > Of course, cycling suffers from a very real witch infestation, which
> > only makes the problem of witchlessness harder, eh? I mean, if what
> > we're doing now starts working, when will we know?

>
> Sport, not just cycling but all of sport, has never been
> threatened with witchlessness.
>
> So I wouldn't be concerned with not recognizing when things
> start working.


Well, I think it's fair to say that the hunting of witches in cycling
has never been more aggressive than today. The catching of witches also
seems to be way up, but that's expected.

The question is whether or not this new and improved witch hunting will
lead to the witches fleeing the scene for some friendlier territory like
bodybuilding or fattie-master industrial-park crits.

Partnership for a Witch-Free ProTour,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
 
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> Well, I think it's fair to say that the hunting of witches in cycling
> has never been more aggressive than today. The catching of witches also
> seems to be way up, but that's expected.


Merckx got popped a bunch of times. But not as many times as
Freddy "Stimul" Maertens. Freddy was in a class by himself.

In the pre-WADA days, if you were capable of producing an
Olympic medal the odds were good that your national
federation (which administered doping cases in the pre-WADA
days) would manufacture technical grounds for dismissal of
any doping positives you might incur. And then dismiss them.

How many times did LANCE come up positive. Oh yeah, none.
And neither did Pantani. His Giro expulsion was a two week
break to improve his health. It wasn't a positive test.

If you count lab positives and not law enforcement positives
I think doping positives are way down.

Bob Schwartz
 
| How many times did LANCE come up positive. Oh yeah, none.
| And neither did Pantani. His Giro expulsion was a two week
| break to improve his health. It wasn't a positive test.


There was no reliable test at the time for detecting EPO, but they could
most certainly find the results. And given that athletes had the ability to
both manipulate and measure their hematocrit levels, and that they knew what
levels constituted a mandatory suspension for "health" reasons... I would
consider that Pantani did, in fact, fail a doping test. Is that the same as
testing "positive?" Effectively, yes.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
 
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
>> > Of course, cycling suffers from a very real witch infestation,


Donald Munro wrote:
>> You mean the podium girls ? :
>> <http://www.joyofspex.com/models/zilleImages/zille_witch/index.html>


Ryan Cousineau wrote:
> No I do not mean the podium girls. You're also trying to get me in trouble
> with the missus, just like Ted. I should have know better than to follow
> the link.


Nobody said you had to click on the thumbnails.
 
On Feb 27, 8:04 pm, Bob Schwartz
> And neither did Pantani. His Giro expulsion was a two week
> break to improve his health. It wasn't a positive test.


That's a mere legality of language. Sorta like the first day of
spring.

The ch7 weatherman said last night that spring has sprung. And
looking out the window, I'd say it is so.

That means it is time for my pets to begin spring afternoon training
rides.
 
SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
> On Feb 27, 8:04 pm, Bob Schwartz
>> And neither did Pantani. His Giro expulsion was a two week
>> break to improve his health. It wasn't a positive test.

>
> That's a mere legality of language.


Language is important in law. The UCI did not consider
having too rich blood to be a positive test result. In
the court of rbr, things are different.

I miss Pantani. He was entertaining. If he were still
alive he'd certainly be riding for Rock.

Bob Schwartz
 
> I miss Pantani. He was entertaining. If he were still
> alive he'd certainly be riding for Rock


I have vivid memories of watching him on Ventoux the year he & Lance had
their disagreement. Pantani was all over the map on that climb. He'd be off
the front, then off the back, and all over his bike. One of the few who
would climb from the drops... standing. I was at a small chateaux near the
base of the climb, with a group that included people who had a clue about
racing and others who... well, didn't. Those that didn't, and hadn't watched
Pantani race before, were certain each time he came off the back that it was
all over for him. After the 2nd or 3rd time, you'd think they would have
learned.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
>> On Feb 27, 8:04 pm, Bob Schwartz
>>> And neither did Pantani. His Giro expulsion was a two week
>>> break to improve his health. It wasn't a positive test.

>>
>> That's a mere legality of language.

>
> Language is important in law. The UCI did not consider
> having too rich blood to be a positive test result. In
> the court of rbr, things are different.
>
> I miss Pantani. He was entertaining. If he were still
> alive he'd certainly be riding for Rock.
>
> Bob Schwartz
 
On Feb 27, 11:04 pm, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
wrote:

> If you count lab positives and not law enforcement positives
> I think doping positives are way down.
>


dumbass,

i agree. doping tests are a lousy way to catch dopers.
 
On Feb 28, 1:31 pm, SLAVE of THE STATE <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 8:04 pm, Bob Schwartz
>
> > And neither did Pantani. His Giro expulsion was a two week
> > break to improve his health. It wasn't a positive test.

>
> That's a mere legality of language. Sorta like the first day of
> spring.


dumbass,

perhaps. but if it was a positive test he would've been suspended. he
was only sidelined for 2 weeks, but somehow that was enough to derail
his whole career (and life) from that point on.
 
On Feb 28, 11:46 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
wrote:

> I miss Pantani. He was entertaining. If he were still
> alive he'd certainly be riding for Rock.


He was indeed entertainingPlusTalented, and that, by my definition,
made him a good pro. Sad that he could not get it together.

He'd be riding with YMC. Now iirc, Lafferty did not like YMC, so
there must be something very good about YMC. Therefore, I am a fan of
YMC.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/200...08/california08/california087/JD_08TOCstg7034
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:

> I miss Pantani. He was entertaining. If he were still
> alive he'd certainly be riding for Rock.


Well, he'd be on Rock. The "riding" part is another matter, as some of Ball's guys
now know.

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
Bob Schwartz wrote:
> I miss Pantani. He was entertaining. If he were still alive he'd certainly
> be riding for Rock.


Presumably no shortage of coke and rollable SUV's in the Rock camp.