beginning to see achink of light

[Steve]

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:00:04 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote
(in article <[email protected]>):

> Hi Mozz,
>
> Mozz wrote:
>
>> Perhaps it is now the time for us to close our current 'discussion' ?
>
> This thread probably should not have started in the first place.
>
>> The remarks below are so unwaranted from any genuine attempt or wish to understand my spiritual
>> practices that I cannot see any helpful way to proceed.
>
> Your participation in this particular thread casts much doubt on your spiritual practices.

This from a man who "participated" in, indeed tried to encourage the "Nagler is a pedophile" thread.
The man who set up an anonymous FAQ address to hide behind and now encourages others to send any
dirt they have on Dr. Nagler to that address so he can publish it.

Mozz is ten times the "christian" you will ever be.

--
Steve

Weeding the Lord's Vineyards Since 2003

 

[Richard Lucarno]

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:50:33 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<[email protected]> wrote:

^Richard Lucarno wrote: ^ ^> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:36:16 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" ^>
<[email protected]> wrote: ^> ^> ^Mozz wrote: ^> ^ ^> ^> Why on earth should you all leap to the
conclusion that Francis is ^> ^> insulting anyones ethnicity??? ^> ^> ^> ^ ^> ^When is discerning
the truth insulting except to the untruthful? ^> ^> It isn't -- it's just a silly concept, this
oracular "gift" of "truth ^> discernment" you claim to have. You've probably been lied to quite ^>
successfully many times. ^ ^Lies are never successful. The only person deceived by the deceiver is
himself/herself.

Garbage. People lie to the Internal Revenue Service all the time, as well as other authorities.
People lie to their spouses about affairs. People lie on their resumes. Sometimes they get caught,
sometimes they don't. A lie is successful when the person being lied to accepts the lie as the
truth. Are you claiming that you never believed someone who lied to you? If you have, then you have
no "gift" of "truth discernment."

^ ^> ^> The expression 'a chink of light' is a quite common term used to ^> ^> express the
dawning of a new understanding, or vision etc... ^> ^ ^> ^I've never heard it before. Perhaps you
are confusing this phrase with "a beam of light" or "a ray of light." ^> ^> I've heard it before.
Webster's Dictionary defines "chink" as "a ^> narrow opening." A "chink in the armor" is an old
expression. "Chink ^> of light" is somewhat less common, meaning a narrow opening through ^>
which light can be seen. It unfortunately is also a homonym for a ^> particular ethnic slur. I
don't think Julie meant it in that insulting ^> way, however. ^ ^Julie has not denied it. ^ ^> ^>
Another similar term would be 'a chink in the armour' to express a ^> ^> weakness in a defense.
^> ^Similarly uncommon. ^> ^> I've heard it quite a lot. ^> ^ ^Perhaps they wear more armour
where you live.

No, but then none of them wear the "armou" of "truth discernment."

^ ^> ^> ^> It says more about what is in others minds than Francis's! Oh dear oh ^> ^> dear... ^> ^>
^> ^ ^> ^Would the Dalai Lama approve of your behavior, Mozz? ^> ^> Sure he would. He knows enough
English to know the meaning of that ^> expression. ^> ^ ^Perhaps. But what about Mozz's behavior? ^
^Would the Dalai Lama believe Mozz is closer or farther away from enlightenment?

He would certainly think that Mozz is closer to enlightenment than you are, with your delusion that
you have a "gift" of "truth discernment." Only a fool believes that he always knows what the truth
is about everything. By the way, exactly how do you justify this "gift" of "truth discernment"
theologically? I know of no Biblical source that claims such a thing for any mortal human being. I
have also never heard such a thing from any self-professed Christian.

^ ^> ^> ^ ^> ^I think not. ^> ^ ^> ^This does not bode well for your dharma, Mozz. ^> ^ ^> ^Jesus is
more forgiving. ^> ^> And I suppose he will forgive you for having the arrogance to claim a ^> "gift
of truth discernment." ^ ^Being truthful is not a sin.

Don't obfuscate. Telling the truth is not the same as claiming a "gift" of "truth discernment."

^ ^> It shows a distinct lack of humility. ^> ^ ^Using one's gifts to glorify God rather than
oneself is an expression of humility.

No, it isn't. An expression of humility is not boasting about your "gifts," including your
"humility."

^ ^> ^> ^ ^> ^You remain in my prayers, neighbor. ^> ^ ^> ^ ^> ^Servant to the humblest person in
the universe, ^> ^> This person obviously doesn't mind having an egotistical servant who ^> thinks
he is a walking lie detector. ^> ^ ^The untruthful can't help but hate lie detectors.

The foolish can't help but deceive themselves that they always know the truth.

^ ^You will be in my prayers, neighbor.

How touching. And just think, I was about to take you out of my will.

^ ^May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, someday, so that you too can be more truthful.

May you accept help from a Christian psychotherapist, who will prove to you how nuts you are for
believing that you always know the truth about everything.

^Servant to the humblest person in the universe, ^ ^Andrew

 

[John]

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:44:58 GMT, Richard Lucarno <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:50:33 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>^Richard Lucarno wrote: ^ ^> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:36:16 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" ^>
><[email protected]> wrote: ^> ^> ^Mozz wrote: ^> ^ ^> ^> Why on earth should you all leap to
>the conclusion that Francis is ^> ^> insulting anyones ethnicity??? ^> ^> ^> ^ ^> ^When is
>discerning the truth insulting except to the untruthful? ^> ^> It isn't -- it's just a silly
>concept, this oracular "gift" of "truth ^> discernment" you claim to have. You've probably been
>lied to quite ^> successfully many times. ^ ^Lies are never successful. The only person deceived by
>the deceiver is himself/herself.
>
>Garbage. People lie to the Internal Revenue Service all the time, as well as other authorities.
>People lie to their spouses about affairs. People lie on their resumes. Sometimes they get caught,
>sometimes they don't. A lie is successful when the person being lied to accepts the lie as the
>truth. Are you claiming that you never believed someone who lied to you? If you have, then you have
>no "gift" of "truth discernment."
>
>^ ^> ^> The expression 'a chink of light' is a quite common term used to ^> ^> express the dawning
>of a new understanding, or vision etc... ^> ^ ^> ^I've never heard it before. Perhaps you are
>confusing this phrase with "a beam of light" or "a ray of light." ^> ^> I've heard it before.
>Webster's Dictionary defines "chink" as "a ^> narrow opening." A "chink in the armor" is an old
>expression. "Chink ^> of light" is somewhat less common, meaning a narrow opening through ^> which
>light can be seen. It unfortunately is also a homonym for a ^> particular ethnic slur. I don't
>think Julie meant it in that insulting ^> way, however. ^ ^Julie has not denied it. ^ ^> ^>
>Another similar term would be 'a chink in the armour' to express a ^> ^> weakness in a defense. ^>
>^Similarly uncommon. ^> ^> I've heard it quite a lot. ^> ^ ^Perhaps they wear more armour where
>you live.
>
>No, but then none of them wear the "armou" of "truth discernment."
>
>^ ^> ^> ^> It says more about what is in others minds than Francis's! Oh dear oh ^> ^> dear... ^>
>^> ^> ^ ^> ^Would the Dalai Lama approve of your behavior, Mozz? ^> ^> Sure he would. He knows
>enough English to know the meaning of that ^> expression. ^> ^ ^Perhaps. But what about Mozz's
>behavior? ^ ^Would the Dalai Lama believe Mozz is closer or farther away from enlightenment?
>
>He would certainly think that Mozz is closer to enlightenment than you are, with your delusion that
>you have a "gift" of "truth discernment." Only a fool believes that he always knows what the truth
>is about everything. By the way, exactly how do you justify this "gift" of "truth discernment"
>theologically? I know of no Biblical source that claims such a thing for any mortal human being. I
>have also never heard such a thing from any self-professed Christian.

Oops, here comes one now.

Read 1st Corinthians chapter 12 verses 1-11. Here it is in the "New Living Translation" version.

1 Corinthians 12

Spiritual Gifts

1And now, dear brothers and sisters,[1] I will write about the special abilities the Holy Spirit
gives to each of us, for I must correct your misunderstandings about them. 2You know that when you
were still pagans you were led astray and swept along in worshiping speechless idols. 3So I want you
to know how to discern what is truly from God: No one speaking by the Spirit of God can curse Jesus,
and no one is able to say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. 4Now there are different
kinds of spiritual gifts, but it is the same Holy Spirit who is the source of them all. 5There are
different kinds of service in the church, but it is the same Lord we are serving. 6There are
different ways God works in our lives, but it is the same God who does the work through all of us.
7A spiritual gift is given to each of us as a means of helping the entire church. 8To one person the
Spirit gives the ability to give wise advice; to another he gives the gift of special knowledge.
9The Spirit gives special faith to another, and to someone else he gives the power to heal the sick.
10He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and to another the ability to prophesy. He
gives someone else the ability to know whether it is really the Spirit of God or another spirit that
is speaking. Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages,[2] and another
is given the ability to interpret what is being said. 11It is the one and only Holy Spirit who
distributes these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person should have.
--------
As you can see there is a list of spiritual gifts, by no means exhaustive, i.e., I don't the
intention was to limit the gifts of the spirit to just these mentioned. But even in this list in
verse 10 we have the gift of discerment of spirits, i.e., is it God talking or some other spirit
(the devil). If this is not truth discernment, then I don't now what is.

In my church the pastor often preaches on spiritual gifts and their use (or lack of use) by the
congregation.

God bless, John

 

[Don Kirkman]

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote
in article <[email protected]>:

>Mozz wrote:

>> Why on earth should you all leap to the conclusion that Francis is insulting anyones ethnicity???

>When is discerning the truth insulting except to the untruthful?

>> The expression 'a chink of light' is a quite common term used to express the dawning of a new
>> understanding, or vision etc...

>I've never heard it before. Perhaps you are confusing this phrase with "a beam of light" or "a ray
>of light."

It's in the dictionary, and has been for a very long time. A chink, to quote Webster (the version I
own), is "a small cleft, slit, or fissure"; "a means of evasion or escape"; or "a narrow beam of
light shining through a chink." It goes back to Old English and Old German roots.

The ethnic slur "Chink" is much later (19th century US when the first Chinese arrived), and I doubt
it's known widely, if at all, outside the US.

Hypersensitivity coupled with inadequate knowledge of history and vocabulary is at the root of many
of the current ethnic tensions in the US.

>> Another similar term would be 'a chink in the armour' to express a weakness in a defense.

>Similarly uncommon.

Same definition--describing a set of armor that has an opening or slit that might allow successful
attack. Not uncommon at all. A parallel to Achilles' heel.
--
Don [email protected]

 

[Richard Lucarno]

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:16:43 -0700, John <[email protected]> wrote:

^On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:44:58 GMT, Richard Lucarno <[email protected]> ^wrote: ^ ^>On Wed, 03 Mar
2004 18:50:33 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" ^><[email protected]> wrote: ^> ^>^Richard
Lucarno wrote: ^>^ ^>^> On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:36:16 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" ^>^>
<[email protected]> wrote: ^>^> ^>^> ^Mozz wrote: ^>^> ^ ^>^> ^> Why on earth should you all
leap to the conclusion that Francis is ^>^> ^> insulting anyones ethnicity??? ^>^> ^> ^>^> ^ ^>^>
^When is discerning the truth insulting except to the untruthful? ^>^> ^>^> It isn't -- it's just a
silly concept, this oracular "gift" of "truth ^>^> discernment" you claim to have. You've probably
been lied to quite ^>^> successfully many times. ^>^ ^>^Lies are never successful. The only person
deceived by the deceiver is himself/herself. ^> ^>Garbage. People lie to the Internal Revenue
Service all the time, as ^>well as other authorities. People lie to their spouses about affairs.
^>People lie on their resumes. Sometimes they get caught, sometimes they ^>don't. A lie is
successful when the person being lied to accepts the ^>lie as the truth. Are you claiming that you
never believed someone who ^>lied to you? If you have, then you have no "gift" of "truth
^>discernment." ^> ^>^ ^>^> ^> The expression 'a chink of light' is a quite common term used to ^>^>
^> express the dawning of a new understanding, or vision etc... ^>^> ^ ^>^> ^I've never heard it
before. Perhaps you are confusing this phrase with "a beam of light" or "a ray of light." ^>^> ^>^>
I've heard it before. Webster's Dictionary defines "chink" as "a ^>^> narrow opening." A "chink in
the armor" is an old expression. "Chink ^>^> of light" is somewhat less common, meaning a narrow
opening through ^>^> which light can be seen. It unfortunately is also a homonym for a ^>^>
particular ethnic slur. I don't think Julie meant it in that insulting ^>^> way, however. ^>^
^>^Julie has not denied it. ^>^ ^>^> ^> Another similar term would be 'a chink in the armour' to
express a ^>^> ^> weakness in a defense. ^>^> ^Similarly uncommon. ^>^> ^>^> I've heard it quite a
lot. ^>^> ^>^ ^>^Perhaps they wear more armour where you live. ^> ^>No, but then none of them wear
the "armou" of "truth discernment." ^> ^>^ ^>^> ^>^> ^> It says more about what is in others minds
than Francis's! Oh dear oh ^>^> ^> dear... ^>^> ^> ^>^> ^ ^>^> ^Would the Dalai Lama approve of your
behavior, Mozz? ^>^> ^>^> Sure he would. He knows enough English to know the meaning of that ^>^>
expression. ^>^> ^>^ ^>^Perhaps. But what about Mozz's behavior? ^>^ ^>^Would the Dalai Lama believe
Mozz is closer or farther away from enlightenment? ^> ^>He would certainly think that Mozz is closer
to enlightenment than you ^>are, with your delusion that you have a "gift" of "truth discernment."
^>Only a fool believes that he always knows what the truth is about ^>everything. By the way,
exactly how do you justify this "gift" of ^>"truth discernment" theologically? I know of no Biblical
source that ^>claims such a thing for any mortal human being. I have also never ^>heard such a thing
from any self-professed Christian. ^ ^Oops, here comes one now. ^ ^Read 1st Corinthians chapter 12
verses 1-11. Here it is in the "New ^Living Translation" version. ^ ^1 Corinthians 12 ^ ^ ^Spiritual
Gifts ^ ^1And now, dear brothers and sisters,[1] I will write about the special ^abilities the Holy
Spirit gives to each of us, for I must correct your ^misunderstandings about them. 2You know that
when you were still ^pagans you were led astray and swept along in worshiping speechless ^idols. 3So
I want you to know how to discern what is truly from God: ^No one speaking by the Spirit of God can
curse Jesus, and no one is ^able to say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Really? Well, let me try:

Jesus is Lord! Jesus is Lord! Jesus is Lord!

So, was I alternately under control of two different spirits, first Satan, and then the Holy One?
Would you like me to do it again? My fingers didn't even cramp up!

^4Now there are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but it is the same ^Holy Spirit who is the
source of them all. 5There are different kinds ^of service in the church, but it is the same Lord we
are serving. ^6There are different ways God works in our lives, but it is the same ^God who does the
work through all of us. 7A spiritual gift is given to ^each of us as a means of helping the entire
church. ^8To one person the Spirit gives the ability to give wise advice; to ^another he gives the
gift of special knowledge. 9The Spirit gives ^special faith to another, and to someone else he gives
the power to ^heal the sick. 10He gives one person the power to perform miracles, ^and to another
the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ^ability to know whether it is really the Spirit
of God or another ^spirit that is speaking. Still another person is given the ability to ^speak in
unknown languages,[2] and another is given the ability to ^interpret what is being said. 11It is the
one and only Holy Spirit who ^distributes these gifts. He alone decides which gift each person
^should have. ^-------- ^As you can see there is a list of spiritual gifts, by no means ^exhaustive,
i.e., I don't the intention was to limit the gifts of the ^spirit to just these mentioned. But even
in this list in verse 10 we ^have the gift of discerment of spirits, i.e., is it God talking or
^some other spirit (the devil). If this is not truth discernment, then ^I don't now what is.

This is the first intelligent thing you have said -- you don't know what "truth discernment" is, and
I suspect you don't even know the definition of the word "truth." It has nothing whatever to do with
"spirits." That should be called "spirit discernment," not "truth discernment."

Webster's II, New Riverside Dictionary (copyright 1984, Houghton Mifflin Co.) truth <phonetics
snipped> 1. Accordance with knowledge, fact, or actuality 2. The real state of affairs: fact 3.
Actuality: reality
4. A statement that is or is accepted as fact 5. The state of being truthful: honesty

See any "spirits" in the definition of "truth" cited above? Care to get another dictionary?

The rest of your screed is non sequitor.

^ ^In my church the pastor often preaches on spiritual gifts and their ^use (or lack of use) by the
congregation. ^ ^God bless, ^John

 

[John]

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:52:02 GMT, Richard Lucarno <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:16:43 -0700, John
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>^On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:44:58 GMT, Richard Lucarno
><[email protected]> ^wrote:
[your filth deleted]

>^4Now there are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but it
>is the same ^Holy Spirit who is the source of them all.
>5There are different kinds ^of service in the church, but
>it is the same Lord we are serving. ^6There are different
>ways God works in our lives, but it is the same ^God who
>does the work through all of us. 7A spiritual gift is
>given to ^each of us as a means of helping the entire
>church. ^8To one person the Spirit gives the ability to
>give wise advice; to ^another he gives the gift of special
>knowledge. 9The Spirit gives ^special faith to another,
>and to someone else he gives the power to ^heal the sick.
>10He gives one person the power to perform miracles, ^and
>to another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else
>the ^ability to know whether it is really the Spirit of
>God or another ^spirit that is speaking. Still another
>person is given the ability to ^speak in unknown
>languages,[2] and another is given the ability to
>^interpret what is being said. 11It is the one and only
>Holy Spirit who ^distributes these gifts. He alone decides
>which gift each person ^should have. ^-------- ^As you can
>see there is a list of spiritual gifts, by no means
>^exhaustive, i.e., I don't the intention was to limit the
>gifts of the ^spirit to just these mentioned. But even in
>this list in verse 10 we ^have the gift of discerment of
>spirits, i.e., is it God talking or ^some other spirit
>(the devil). If this is not truth discernment, then ^I
>don't now what is.
>
>This is the first intelligent thing you have said -- you
>don't know what "truth discernment" is, and I suspect you
>don't even know the definition of the word "truth." It has
>nothing whatever to do with "spirits." That should be
>called "spirit discernment," not "truth discernment."
>
>Webster's II, New Riverside Dictionary (copyright 1984,
>Houghton Mifflin Co.) truth <phonetics snipped> 1.
>Accordance with knowledge, fact, or actuality 2. The real
>state of affairs: fact 3. Actuality: reality
>4. A statement that is or is accepted as fact 5. The state
> of being truthful: honesty
>
>See any "spirits" in the definition of "truth" cited above?
>Care to get another dictionary?

Ok, how about American Heritage Dictionary as available from
Google: truth:
1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
3. Sincerity; integrity.
4. Fidelity to an original or standard.
5.
a. Reality; actuality.
b. often Truth: That which is considered to be the supreme
reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of
existence.

What we're talking about in this discussion is 5b. which is
really a metaphysical definition, not merely simple logic as
in the sort of symbolic logic used to design computers. Your
everyday petty lies to your spouse or the IRS are of little
concern to God. Everybody does it and those who confess this
and all the other petty and serious sins and call on the
name of Jesus will be saved. That is the promise of the New
Testament. That is the BIG truth.

John

 

[Richard Lucarno]

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 23:43:05 -0700, John <[email protected]> wrote:

^On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 16:52:02 GMT, Richard Lucarno
<[email protected]> ^wrote: ^ ^>On Thu, 04 Mar 2004
12:16:43 -0700, John <[email protected]> wrote: ^> ^>^On
Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:44:58 GMT, Richard Lucarno
<[email protected]> ^>^wrote: ^[your filth deleted]

Delete my words if you like. They have served their purpose.

^ ^>^4Now there are different kinds of spiritual gifts, but
it is the same ^>^Holy Spirit who is the source of them all.
5There are different kinds ^>^of service in the church, but
it is the same Lord we are serving. ^>^6There are different
ways God works in our lives, but it is the same ^>^God who
does the work through all of us. 7A spiritual gift is given
to ^>^each of us as a means of helping the entire church.
^>^8To one person the Spirit gives the ability to give wise
advice; to ^>^another he gives the gift of special
knowledge. 9The Spirit gives ^>^special faith to another,
and to someone else he gives the power to ^>^heal the sick.
10He gives one person the power to perform miracles, ^>^and
to another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else
the ^>^ability to know whether it is really the Spirit of
God or another ^>^spirit that is speaking. Still another
person is given the ability to ^>^speak in unknown
languages,[2] and another is given the ability to
^>^interpret what is being said. 11It is the one and only
Holy Spirit who ^>^distributes these gifts. He alone decides
which gift each person ^>^should have. ^>^-------- ^>^As you
can see there is a list of spiritual gifts, by no means
^>^exhaustive, i.e., I don't the intention was to limit the
gifts of the ^>^spirit to just these mentioned. But even in
this list in verse 10 we ^>^have the gift of discerment of
spirits, i.e., is it God talking or ^>^some other spirit
(the devil). If this is not truth discernment, then ^>^I
don't now what is. ^> ^>This is the first intelligent thing
you have said -- you don't know ^>what "truth discernment"
is, and I suspect you don't even know the ^>definition of
the word "truth." It has nothing whatever to do with
^>"spirits." That should be called "spirit discernment," not
"truth ^>discernment." ^> ^>Webster's II, New Riverside
Dictionary (copyright 1984, Houghton ^>Mifflin Co.) ^>truth
<phonetics snipped> 1. Accordance with knowledge, fact, or
^>actuality 2. The real state of affairs: fact 3. Actuality:
reality ^>4. A statement that is or is accepted as fact 5.
The state of being ^>truthful: honesty ^> ^>See any
"spirits" in the definition of "truth" cited above? Care to
^>get another dictionary? ^ ^Ok, how about American Heritage
Dictionary as available from Google: ^truth: ^1. Conformity
to fact or actuality. ^2. A statement proven to be or
accepted as true. ^3. Sincerity; integrity. ^4. Fidelity to
an original or standard. ^5. ^ a. Reality; actuality. ^ b.
often Truth: That which is considered to be the supreme
reality ^and to have the ultimate meaning and value of
existence.

Still no "spirits" in the definition, unless you happen to
consider "spirits" part of "supreme reality." I don't, but
you are welcome to do so. Chung claims "truth discernment,"
not "Truth discernment."

^ ^What we're talking about in this discussion is 5b. which
is really a ^metaphysical definition, not merely simple
logic as in the sort of ^symbolic logic used to design
computers.

Well, that may be what YOU are talking about, and you're
welcome to do so, but it ain't what Chung was talking about
when he spoke of his "gift" of "truth discernment." He
equally applies it to his belief in God (an assertion about
"ultimate reality") and his statements about individual
people, proper diet, etc. (assertions about "ordinary
reality"). If Chung knew how to separate the two types of
"truth" in his own mind, I never would have brought it up.
Problem is, anyone can claim a gift of "Truth discernment"
without having to concretely demonstrate it. I therefore
decline to believe in it.

^ Your everyday petty lies to ^your spouse or the IRS are of
little concern to God. Everybody does ^it and those who
confess this and all the other petty and serious sins ^and
call on the name of Jesus will be saved. That is the promise
of ^the New Testament. That is the BIG truth.

Then tell that to Chung -- that his so-called "truth
discernment" does not apply to mundane things, such as
ordinary lies, claims about other people, medicine, or the
two-pound diet. He is entirely welcome to his claim of
"Truth discernement," provided he remembers that is is not
the same thing as "truth discernment," and doesn't confuse
the two. Maybe he should call it "ultimate" or "cosmic"
"Truth discernment." It would make him sound just as
pompous, but only when discussing religion.

^ ^John