Beloki has Osteoperosis?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Swj, Jul 31, 2003.

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  1. Swj

    Swj Guest

    which explains boardman's lack of durability in crashes as well as in the latter stages of his road
    career. one writer, in a boardman retirement article, suggested that chris lasted as long as he did
    because he never fully focused on pounding his brains out day in and day out like many pro cyclists
    end up doing. hopefully for beloki this isn't completely true and his condition is remedable and has
    not progressed beyond the point of no return. unfortunately, if it has, his days as a pro cyclist
    may be nearing the end, he is a great rider and it would be a shame to see him go.

    shawn

    "Steve McGinty" <[email protected]_DOT_.com> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:27:12 -0700, "Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > He wouldn't be the first
    >
    >
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2000/10/01/spcyc.xml
    >
    > Despite being one of the country's fittest endurance athletes, (Chris) Boardman is suffering from
    > the onset of osteoporosis, the bone-wasting disease which can cause stress fractures and
    > crippling pain.
    >
    >
    >
    > Regards! Stephen
     
    Tags:


  2. just because you're a woman, doesn't mean Beloki is a woman.
     
  3. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    "ESMD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > NEVER supplement with calcium, it only makes it worse, despite what you hear from the medical
    > know-it-alls.

    Quack.

    Andy Coggan
     
  4. "Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > I quit the patch with the advent of the skin rashes

    Nice use of the word "advent."

    JT

    --
    *******************************************
    NB: reply-to address is munged

    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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  5. From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much more
    than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled allot of
    his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was not that much
    considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body and the least likely
    to break. Racers that are known for their climbing ability are smaller and lighter, the best
    climbers probably also have the least dense bones because power/Kg is so important that 5 lbs.
    difference in total weight would be very sifnificant in climbing ability in the upper echelons of
    our sport. I mention all this because I was 5'8" and 135lb. when I raced, and was best at climbing.
    I am 55 now and just found out (by acident) I have the bone density of a 70 year old, which is also
    the density where people start experiencing compression fractures in the vertebrae. I think that
    everybody and especially climbers should go down and get a bone density test done while they are
    young. A two point graph, one when you are around 23 years old (when your bones are at their
    densest) and one when you are older is very important for determining just how low you are, and how
    fast you are losing bone over the years. There are many reasons a person ends up with Oseoperosis
    and it's not just women who get it. The medical establisment is just now starting to respond to men
    showing up with it, so don't expect them to test you automatically, you must ask for it, and demand
    it. Believe me it is a colassal pain in the ass to try and build your bone density back up after you
    have lost it, unless you like urinary track infections, swollen prostate glands, flu like symtoms
    for weeks at a time and skin rashes so bad it keeps you awake at nite. Thanks for listening -

    Ron
     
  6. Dave M Wyman

    Dave M Wyman Guest

    Ronald B. Wyckoff wrote:
    > Believe me it is a colassal pain in the ass to try and build your bone density back up after you
    > have lost it, unless you like urinary track infections, swollen prostate glands, flu like symtoms
    > for weeks at a time and skin rashes so bad it keeps you awake at nite. Thanks for listening -
    >
    > Ron

    Ron, what are you doing to build up your bone density - and in your case, why did bone density
    loss occur?

    Dave
     
  7. ESMD

    ESMD New Member

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    Osteoperosis in men is caused by chronic lower levels of testosterone, along with L-T3 (metabolically active thyrod hormone), excess nighttime cortisol levels, AND excess immune activation which causes massive leaching of calcium from bones. Yes DEXA scans are very important for endurance athletes and men over 40. FYI, Maximum bone damage happens from 3:00-4:00am to 7:00-8:00am when the immune system hits it maximum levels for the 24 hour period. Testosterone also hits it max at these times to help modulate and restrain the immune system. Low testo and high cortisol levels is the reason many athletes and older people cannot sleep after 3:00 am, and a big cause of male osteo. Get you testo levels checked by a good doctor. Also NEVER supplement with calcium, it only makes it worse, despite what you hear from the medical know-it-alls. Further OTC supplements do not work despite the hype * * "Smart" elite endurance athletes use a "natural" transdermal testosterone cream at night to aid in recovery and bring their testo levels back to normal in order settle the immune system down and get some solid restorative sleep. Since it is identical to human testo, if doesn't get picked up by the doping testing, unless it is overused causing testo and downstream markers to test above defined limits. Some people call it doping; others say it is smart to protect the human body thru highly destructive nighttime biorhythms, by bring key biomarkers back to normal levels. Guess time will tell..........
     
  8. Dave M Wyman wrote:

    > Ronald B. Wyckoff wrote:
    > > Believe me it is a colassal pain in the ass to try and build your bone density back up after you
    > > have lost it, unless you like urinary track infections, swollen prostate glands, flu like
    > > symtoms for weeks at a time and skin rashes so bad it keeps you awake at nite. Thanks for
    > > listening -
    > >
    > > Ron
    >
    > Ron, what are you doing to build up your bone density - and in your case, why did bone density
    > loss occur?
    >
    > Dave

    In my case I have a Testoserone level of 191, normal goes between 260-to around 400. The big
    question is, has this level been low all my life or just the last 8 years when my life became very
    stressfull. Stress can cause the edrinal gland to put out fifty percent less Testosterone. Also, how
    low was my bone density to start with when I was young so I know how dangerous this situation will
    get and how fast. My doctor is trying to build up my Testoserone level with a patch that you change
    every 24 hours. The side effects are the ones I described in the first post. I quit the patch with
    the advent of the skin rashes until I can get a hold of my doctor. I understand you can get
    injections too, but don't know what the side effects are of this route, or if there are other routes
    to try. Ron
     
  9. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > Dave M Wyman wrote:
    >
    > > Ronald B. Wyckoff wrote:
    > > > Believe me it is a colassal pain in the ass to try and build your bone density back up after
    > > > you have lost it, unless you like urinary track infections, swollen prostate glands, flu like
    > > > symtoms for weeks at a time and skin rashes so bad it keeps you awake at nite. Thanks for
    > > > listening -
    > > >
    > > > Ron
    > >
    > > Ron, what are you doing to build up your bone density - and in your case, why did bone density
    > > loss occur?
    > >
    > > Dave
    >
    > In my case I have a Testoserone level of 191, normal goes between 260-to around 400. The big
    > question is, has this level been low all my life or just the last 8 years when my life became very
    > stressfull. Stress can cause the edrinal gland to put out fifty percent less Testosterone. Also,
    > how low was my bone density to start with when I was young so I know how dangerous this situation
    > will get and how fast. My doctor is trying to build up my Testoserone level with a patch that you
    > change every 24 hours. The side effects are the ones I described in the first post. I quit the
    > patch with the advent of the skin rashes until I can get a hold of my doctor. I understand you can
    > get injections too, but don't know what the side effects are of this route, or if there are other
    > routes to try. Ron

    Have you tried sublingual tabs or topical cream? Try www.collegepharmacy.com for articles and if
    your MD will write the script, they will compound the meds as needed. Sometimes other hormones are
    useful to add.

    Cyclists are so blasé about their health, as if riding a bike all day is all anyone ever needs to
    keep their health. Good for you for doing more.
     
  10. Steve Croft

    Steve Croft Guest

    "Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much
    > more than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled
    > allot of his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was not
    > that much considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body and the
    > least likely to break.

    To me it looked like the major impact on the leg was after the tire rolled and the rear of the bike
    came around and grabbed the road flipping him onto the surface. Perhaps at that point he broke his
    leg on the top bar? That's my own amateur perspective.
     
  11. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "Steve Croft" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much
    > > more than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled
    > > allot of his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was
    > > not that much considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body
    > > and the least likely to break.
    >
    > To me it looked like the major impact on the leg was after the tire rolled and the rear of the
    > bike came around and grabbed the road flipping him onto the surface. Perhaps at that point he
    > broke his leg on the top bar? That's my own amateur perspective.

    No way. That boy hit the pavement HARD.
     
  12. Ronald B. Wyckoff <[email protected]> wrote:
    > From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much
    > more than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled
    > allot of his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was not
    > that much considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body and the
    > least likely to break.

    I guess I don't buy this interpretation of the crash, except that the femur is large. That crash
    looked awful. He got launched over the bike, melting tar is slippery but it isn't usefully spongy,
    he was going pretty fast, too hot for the turn, and anyone can slide pretty well after hitting the
    ground. "From a physics perspective," your momentum is forward and the impact force is up - only
    friction decelerates you. There is an element of bad luck here - you can go over the bars and only
    get your bell rung, or you can break bones.

    Apparently athletes who do non-load-bearing activities such as cycling can show decreases in bone
    density, so that is a legitimate concern.
     
  13. Raptor

    Raptor Guest

    Nick Burns wrote:
    > "Steve Croft" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>"Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>>From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much
    >>>more than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled
    >>>allot of his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was
    >>>not that much considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body and
    >>>the least likely to break.
    >>
    >>To me it looked like the major impact on the leg was after the tire rolled and the rear of the
    >>bike came around and grabbed the road flipping him onto the surface. Perhaps at that point he
    >>broke his leg on the top bar? That's my own amateur perspective.
    >
    >
    > No way. That boy hit the pavement HARD.

    I agree. I don't think someone's realizing that Beloki had 30+mph of speed and momentum to burn off.

    --
    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
    could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
    charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
     
  14. Marty

    Marty Guest

    "Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad.

    Watch again, it's bad: http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/oln/tdf2003video/14action11_300.wvx

    He was still moving pretty fast when he went down. Plus, his rear wheel planted which ejected him
    from the bike - but not parallel to the ground, or up into the air - he ejected towards the pavement
    at speed + acceleration of the ejection caused by the planting of the rear wheel . When he hit the
    pavement, it looks like he took almost all of the impact to the hip. When I saw it live, I figured
    he'd be done with a hip injury. It was violent.
    --
    Marty
     
  15. Smiles

    Smiles Guest

    "Raptor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > No way. That boy hit the pavement HARD.
    >
    > I agree. I don't think someone's realizing that Beloki had 30+mph of speed and momentum to
    > burn off.

    Yes ... but ... i have and know many who have done this a much higher speeds ... i high slid going
    90mph hit so hard i cracked a SNELL rated motorcycle helmet ... no broken bones other than a
    separated collar bone ... now, there is a theory which says eat lots of food with calcium since
    cycling's low impact tends to not stimulate bone growth. Also, if he drinks a ton of sodas ... which
    has phosphoric acid ... which bonds to calcium and makes it difficult to absorb in the body ... the
    soda consumption could have compounded the weak bones and therefore broke on a impact like this ...

    Maybe running is not bad after all ... ;-)

    s http://boardnbike.com
     
  16. roadracer

    roadracer New Member

    Joined:
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    > NEVER supplement with calcium, it only makes it worse, despite what you hear from the medical
    > know-it-alls.

    Quack.

    Andy Coggan

    ------------------
    From Roadracer:

    Andy Coggan = Total Idiot!!

    ESMD is exactly right. Every athlete that understands health knows you don't supplement calcium as calcium is a major inflammatory that can wreak your nerves, muscles, organs, and brain if you don't have the proper neural and hormonal factors for it to properly uptake to new bone matrix reformation. In osteoporosis you have a high imbalance between osteoblasts (builds bone) and osteoclasts (breaks down bone) and this excess breakdown is causing excess circulatory calcium levels. Taking calcium supplements just increases immune activation, inflammation, and increases the degenerative disease process. Excess circulatory calcium has been medically implicated in all major neurodegenerative diseases including ALS and early on-set Parkinson’s, which current increases in athletes is the highest every recorded in medical history.

    You need to stop getting a boner watching milk commercials clown!!
     
  17. Andy Coggan

    Andy Coggan Guest

    "Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad.
    >
    > Watch again, it's bad: http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/oln/tdf2003video/14action11_300.wvx
    >
    > He was still moving pretty fast when he went down. Plus, his rear wheel planted which ejected him
    > from the bike - but not parallel to the ground,
    or
    > up into the air - he ejected towards the pavement at speed + acceleration
    of
    > the ejection caused by the planting of the rear wheel . When he hit the pavement, it looks like he
    > took almost all of the impact to the hip. When
    I
    > saw it live, I figured he'd be done with a hip injury. It was violent.

    I know of a rider who broke their hip (femoral neck fracture) going all of about 8 mph - front wheel
    dropped into some railroad tracks, and he was vaulted over the bars much like you describe. He isn't
    some undernourished climber, either, but a former weightlifter whose bones are probably quite dense.

    People who do research on osteoporosis like to refer to a "fracture threshold"...but in fact any
    bone, even a thick, healthy one, will break under sufficient force (obviously).

    None of which is meant to minimize the issue of osteopenia/osteoporosis among elite cyclists, which
    does occur....

    Andy Coggan
     
  18. Sj

    Sj Guest

    "Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad.
    >
    > Watch again, it's bad: http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/oln/tdf2003video/14action11_300.wvx
    >
    > He was still moving pretty fast when he went down. Plus, his rear wheel planted which ejected him
    > from the bike - but not parallel to the ground,
    or
    > up into the air - he ejected towards the pavement at speed + acceleration
    of
    > the ejection caused by the planting of the rear wheel . When he hit the pavement, it looks like he
    > took almost all of the impact to the hip. When
    I
    > saw it live, I figured he'd be done with a hip injury. It was violent.
    > --
    > Marty
    >

    Looking at my chart of the skeletal system, the Greater Trochanter is the top of the Femur that you
    feel with you push on the side of your "hip." It is the attachment for several muscles but does not
    have a muscle covering it on the side. Therefore, when Beloki landed almost straight down on the
    side of his "hip," he apparently landed directly on the Greater Trochanter. This could have broken
    the neck of the Femur (between the Greater Trochanter and the Head of the Femur (ball at the end of
    the Femur in the socket of the Illium).

    It is unlikely that the fall broke the Femur between the Greater Trochanter and the knee because of
    the lack of force in this area at impact. Of course, this is all supposition because I have been
    unable to find specifics on Beloki's injuries.

    One of my riding buddies fell in an algae-covered low-water crossing at less than 5 mph and broke
    the neck of his Femur. Dropping straight down from about 3 feet onto your hip (Greater Trochanter)
    is definitely not something to try at home, boys and girls.

    SJ
     
  19. Kaiser

    Kaiser Guest

    I broke my hip while going just 10 MPH. The guy next to me slipped while we were crosing some RR
    tracks in a rainstorm. I dont have osteoporosis.

    If you hit it at the right place with the requisite amount of force, trust me, it'll break. In my
    situation, the force of the man who fel lon top of me helped create this requisite amount.

    When I saw Beloki go down, I immediately felt he'd emerge with a badly broken hip. He got that plus
    a dislocation to go with it (a messy break).

    -k

    "Ronald B. Wyckoff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > From a physics perspective Beloki's crash was not that bad. His vertical fall was not that much
    > more than 2', the road surface was melting Tar and was probably soft, and he had already bled
    > allot of his speed before launching off the bike, and his deceleration on hitting the road was not
    > that much considering his slide afterward. The Femur bone is the largest bone in the body and the
    > least likely to break. Racers that are known for their climbing ability are smaller and lighter,
    > the best climbers probably also have the least dense bones because power/Kg is so important that 5
    > lbs. difference in total weight would be very sifnificant in climbing ability in the upper
    > echelons of our sport. I mention all this because I was 5'8" and 135lb. when I raced, and was best
    > at climbing. I am 55 now and just found out (by acident) I have the bone density of a 70 year old,
    > which is also the density where people start experiencing compression fractures in the vertebrae.
    > I think that everybody and especially climbers should go down and get a bone density test done
    > while they are young. A two point graph, one when you are around 23 years old (when your bones are
    > at their densest) and one when you are older is very important for determining just how low you
    > are, and how fast you are losing bone over the years. There are many reasons a person ends up with
    > Oseoperosis and it's not just women who get it. The medical establisment is just now starting to
    > respond to men showing up with it, so don't expect them to test you automatically, you must ask
    > for it, and demand it. Believe me it is a colassal pain in the ass to try and build your bone
    > density back up after you have lost it, unless you like urinary track infections, swollen prostate
    > glands, flu like symtoms for weeks at a time and skin rashes so bad it keeps you awake at nite.
    > Thanks for listening -
    >
    > Ron
     
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