Beltran positive EPO

[Jeff Vader]

The retrotested urine proved that fairly conclusively. It is one of the things that makes the Beltran situation interesting. His retrotested urine from the 1999 prologue was also positive for EPO, and now he has been busted for EPO years later it lends further credence to the retrotesting.

The problem with Lance homers is that they insist on "beyond a shadow of a doubt" evidence. There is really nothing other than video that would satisfy them. Even that might not be enough. They would probably claim the video was doctored. There is more than enough evidence to produce a "beyond a reasonable doubt" conclusion.

Yep.

 

[Crankyfeet]

The problem is having a presumption from the start. If you start with the belief that Lance is clean (the belief that you want to believe in) ... then you constantly filter, rationalise, and compartmentalise all evidence. The same phenomena explains why close friends and family are the last ones to be convinced of a convicted criminal's guilt.

 

[TheDarkLord]

The problem is having a presumption from the start. If you start with the belief that Lance is clean (the belief that you want to believe in) ... then you constantly filter, rationalise, and compartmentalise all evidence. The same phenomena explains why close friends and family are the last ones to be convinced of a convicted criminal's guilt.

It is more than just having a presumption though. It goes beyond that to somehow identifying with the person - this is obvious in the case of family, but is also probably true for the fanatic fans. Once it comes to that, you would rather find some irrational excuse for why the person is innocent, because accepting that the person is guilty will result in the death of a part of you (not literally of course, but you get the point)...

 

[Crankyfeet]

It is more than just having a presumption though. It goes beyond that to somehow identifying with the person - this is obvious in the case of family, but is also probably true for the fanatic fans. Once it comes to that, you would rather find some irrational excuse for why the person is innocent, because accepting that the person is guilty will result in the death of a part of you (not literally of course, but you get the point)...

Good point.

 

[Trek_Athlete]

It's common sense, Trek. When there is so much evidence from so many sources implicating a rider in doping - ex-teammates saying he doped, ex-soigneurs saying he doped, numerous ex-teammates caught doping (Beltran makes it, what, 5 or 6 ex-Posties/Disco's now?), working with a known doping doctor, riding for a DS who came up through a doping (Saiz) program who then hires a doctor from that team who has previously been linked to doping, finding EPO in multiple B samples, etc etc - then the only reasonable and logical conclusion is that said rider was most likely doping. In LA's case, the reason that most people who follow cycling are now convinced that he was doping is because, given the depth and breadth of evidence, there really is only one logical, reasonable conclusion that can be made.

That's the reason that Lance can't ever prove he didn't dope - there's no way that he can explain away all of the evidence that is now out there. One or two allegations in isolation could be dismissed, perhaps, but all the stuff that's come out cumulatively? Not a chance. There's way too much to be able to explain away/dismiss convincingly.

It always sucks to discover that your favorite rider was doping - I refused to believe it about Pantani at first, myself. But there comes a time when you can't ignore the evidence, and that has nothing to do with being a fan or not, or "believing" anything for that matter - it just is, whether you like it or not.

Nicely put.

 

[K'Ching]

Lance is not safe yet. Riis had retired. People talk. The truth has an uncanny ability to work its way to the surface. Any deal he's made with witnesses or cohorts to gag the truth is vulnerable in the future.

I agree. It's very possible that in ten years time. Most of the riders Lance rode with during his 7 wins will have confessed to using doping, while riding for USP/Disco. That will put a lot of pressure on Lance.

 

[limerickman]

The retrotested urine proved that fairly conclusively. It is one of the things that makes the Beltran situation interesting. His retrotested urine from the 1999 prologue was also positive for EPO, and now he has been busted for EPO years later it lends further credence to the retrotesting.

The problem with Lance homers is that they insist on "beyond a shadow of a doubt" evidence. There is really nothing other than video that would satisfy them. Even that might not be enough. They would probably claim the video was doctored. There is more than enough evidence to produce a "beyond a reasonable doubt" conclusion.

It is my view that while Armstrong (and many others) doped, the tolerance to allow widespread doping is the responsibility of the UCI.
Armstrong and the rest of them were allowed dope, by the UCI.
That's my view.

And in stating that this doesn't mitigate Armstrong and the rest of them in terms of their guilt.
They're guilty.
The UCI is equally culpable in my view.

 

[poulidor]

Small update:

His B sample is positive as predictable...

 

[whiteboytrash]

I agree. It's very possible that in ten years time. Most of the riders Lance rode with during his 7 wins will have confessed to using doping, while riding for USP/Disco. That will put a lot of pressure on Lance.

To be honest he's doesn't care. His life outside cycling is bigger than it ever was in cycling.

 

[Bro Deal]

To be honest he's doesn't care. His life outside cycling is bigger than it ever was in cycling.

He's coming back to Astana to ride a few races next year. He cannot stand being out of the limelight.

 

[whiteboytrash]

He's coming back to Astana to ride a few races next year. He cannot stand being out of the limelight.

No chance. I saw him ride Paris-Nice & Flanders in 2005 and he was shite. There is no way he'll chance his arm minus the dope in **** hand small races. He'll get killed. His fanbase thinks he can win everything.

 

[poulidor]

If One Ball comes back it would be in US only, too much risk to see 6 EPO samples in front of european newspapers.

 

[Bro Deal]

No chance. I saw him ride Paris-Nice & Flanders in 2005 and he was shite. There is no way he'll chance his arm minus the dope in **** hand small races. He'll get killed. His fanbase thinks he can win everything.

If he comes back then it will be a pure publicity stunt, like running New York and Boston. He would probably be aiming for something similar to Cipo at California. He does not need to win, just put in a semi-passable performance and sign autographs.

He could do California and Georgia. I don't think he cares about the European press, so if he raced there he would need something that would be covered by Versus. Maybe P-R. I don't think he would do the TdF.

 

[whiteboytrash]

He's coming back to Astana to ride a few races next year. He cannot stand being out of the limelight.

So Bro how did you get this scoop a week before it happened ?