Beltran positive EPO



Crankyfeet said:
This is a redneck stereotype we have at our disposal. We haven't used him yet. Pity the fool who makes us....


redneckStereotype.jpg
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...Uncle Madge....if his parents hadn't given him that sissy name, he might have gone on to be a post peep show mopper or something important like that...
 
There is no question that you guys know more about all these Armstrong attacks than I do. I learned most of what I know from this thread and the reading I did (including your posts).

I guess in the past I just chose to dismiss the accusations I heard since they never resulted in a conviction. I read "Lance Armstrong's War" by Daniel Coyle, and until I got involved in this thread, that was the most I knew. This has been an eye-opener for me.

However, solid proof, not "he said she said", is probably the only thing that is going to change my mind. Sorry guys.

In any case I will continue to support cycling and hope, not only that the sport cleans up, but that some new and exciting athletes come along and stay off of the drugs!
 
Trek_Athlete said:
There is no question that you guys know more about all these Armstrong attacks than I do. I learned most of what I know from this thread and the reading I did (including your posts).

I guess in the past I just chose to dismiss the accusations I heard since they never resulted in a conviction. I read "Lance Armstrong's War" by Daniel Coyle, and until I got involved in this thread, that was the most I knew. This has been an eye-opener for me.

However, solid proof, not "he said she said", is probably the only thing that is going to change my mind. Sorry guys.

In any case I will continue to support cycling and hope, not only that the sport cleans up, but that some new and exciting athletes come along and stay off of the drugs!
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OK, that I can respect. Funny thing is that I was in your spot before he chased down Simeoni. After that, I had my suspicions and began to read all of the information out there. Taken in whole, the weight is overwhelming in my opinion. There is just no way he rode clean like he said. What is most bothersome to me are his attacking of those who tell the truth. I respect his efforts for cancer, but as a cyclist and human being, he disgusts me. I could respect him, but that would take him becoming honest.

Here are two that are eye opening and very damning to the belief that a clean rider could compete with one who is doped.
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/effect-of-epo-on-performance-who.html
http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html
 
thoughtforfood said:
OK, that I can respect. Funny thing is that I was in your spot before he chased down Simeoni. After that, I had my suspicions and began to read all of the information out there. Taken in whole, the weight is overwhelming in my opinion. There is just no way he rode clean like he said. What is most bothersome to me are his attacking of those who tell the truth. I respect his efforts for cancer, but as a cyclist and human being, he disgusts me. I could respect him, but that would take him becoming honest.

Here are two that are eye opening and very damning to the belief that a clean rider could compete with one who is doped.
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/11/effect-of-epo-on-performance-who.html
http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html
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Yeah, right there with ya...the Simeoni thing...just couldn't ignore that. And once Ullrich and Basso went down..well, any lingering doubt was gone.
 
Trek_Athlete said:
There is no question that you guys know more about all these Armstrong attacks than I do. I learned most of what I know from this thread and the reading I did (including your posts).

I guess in the past I just chose to dismiss the accusations I heard since they never resulted in a conviction. I read "Lance Armstrong's War" by Daniel Coyle, and until I got involved in this thread, that was the most I knew. This has been an eye-opener for me.

However, solid proof, not "he said she said", is probably the only thing that is going to change my mind. Sorry guys.

In any case I will continue to support cycling and hope, not only that the sport cleans up, but that some new and exciting athletes come along and stay off of the drugs!
Click to expand...
See, the problem is that no matter how much evidence TFF, Ava Marie, and others post, you'll still find some excuse to not believe it. That is the problem with these debates, and also the reason why these type of threads turn into flame wars. So, is there any point in this debate?
 
TheDarkLord said:
See, the problem is that no matter how much evidence TFF, Ava Marie, and others post, you'll still find some excuse to not believe it. That is the problem with these debates, and also the reason why these type of threads turn into flame wars. So, is there any point in this debate?
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Yes. We all look really smart...
 
TheDarkLord said:
So, is there any point in this debate?
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Actually, planting the seed is worth it....ok, I don't exactly plant it......more like insert it in a manner similar to something you might see in some German **** film, but you get my point.
 
thoughtforfood said:
I am just about there too Jimmy.....
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It's a bit strange at first, but then it gets better. Once you reach the point where you can casually ignore the race discussions on weekly shop rides, then you've made a return to being a real cyclist.
 
thoughtforfood said:
Actually, planting the seed is worth it....ok, I don't exactly plant it......more like insert it in a manner similar to something you might see in some German **** film, but you get my point.
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German **** film?? Haven't seen one yet. But yes, I do see your point.
 
Trek_Athlete said:
There is no question that you guys know more about all these Armstrong attacks than I do. I learned most of what I know from this thread and the reading I did (including your posts).

I guess in the past I just chose to dismiss the accusations I heard since they never resulted in a conviction. I read "Lance Armstrong's War" by Daniel Coyle, and until I got involved in this thread, that was the most I knew. This has been an eye-opener for me.

However, solid proof, not "he said she said", is probably the only thing that is going to change my mind. Sorry guys.

In any case I will continue to support cycling and hope, not only that the sport cleans up, but that some new and exciting athletes come along and stay off of the drugs!
Click to expand...
Repect. Word to your mother. Yo.
 
Trek_Athlete said:
You are welcome. If it gets boring just let me know if I can help:cool: .
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As a wise man once said on You Tube: "I'm takin your cheese man. I'm takin your cheese."
 
Trek_Athlete said:
It is important to note that Trek has sued Lemond.

It is also important to note that Lemond issued a tearful public apoplogy to Armstrong after his initial criticism in 2001.
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It is also important to note that Lemond sued Trek (first). It is also important to note that the "apology" was drafted by Trek/Armstrong's lawyers. And it is important to note that Trek forced this retraction/apology under threat of ending Lemond's bicycle company. If you want a source, read the pleadings from the Trek/Lemond litigation. If you think any tears on Lemond's part were due to "guilt" over saying something bad about Armstrong, instead of humiliation at being forced to sign off on a ******** apology under threat of economic retribution, you are mistaken. And Lemond's initial criticism revolved solely around Armstrong's links with Dr. Ferrari. You do know who Ferrari is and who his other clients were, right?

You do know (now) that there were no EPO tests before '01 (and probably '02 in the Tour). Once the tests were implemented, the doping method of choice was direct blood manipulation through autologous blood infusions, for which there is still no reliable test today (other than the 50% ceiling for hematocrit levels).

In an earlier post you told someone to stop stating their beliefs as though they are "facts." But while you have made your beliefs clear, you have misstated numerous facts throughout this thread.
 
TheDarkLord said:
See, the problem is that no matter how much evidence TFF, Ava Marie, and others post, you'll still find some excuse to not believe it. That is the problem with these debates, and also the reason why these type of threads turn into flame wars. So, is there any point in this debate?
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I learned something;)
 
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