Bent Power

[Hive]

At the risk of creating a word-storm, or even new forum topic, I will ask:

Anyone have a bent with an engine attached?

Sometime back my body decided DF bike rides were no longer to be tolerated, so I began looking at bents. I researched a lot and decided to go LWB, and almost bought a beauty of Aglio from a very nice guy in Lubbock, TX. Unfortunately I had to back off as the disk brake system crated a problem mounting a belt-drive engine over rear wheel. (BTW, if looking for bent, I believe the advert is on this site's classified, and this man is as honest as we get, so that bike will be as he says and more. If not for motor thingy, I would be riding it today.)

Anyway, I got lucky for being in a small town and ran into a used but nearlynew Burley Sandpoint locally and bought it.

Am installing a Golden Eagle (GEBE) bike engine over rear wheel, so I do not have to pedal hard going up the hill to my home. This engine will not be used much when cruising around - totally free pedaling is accomplished by moving belt off drive ring, which takes about 10 seconds.

I am about to put it together, and wonder who else might have powered up a bent in this manner and comments they might have?

Will post pics later.

 

[Aeliel]

At the risk of creating a word-storm, or even new forum topic, I will ask:

Anyone have a bent with an engine attached?

Sometime back my body decided DF bike rides were no longer to be tolerated, so I began looking at bents. I researched a lot and decided to go LWB, and almost bought a beauty of Aglio from a very nice guy in Lubbock, TX. Unfortunately I had to back off as the disk brake system crated a problem mounting a belt-drive engine over rear wheel. (BTW, if looking for bent, I believe the advert is on this site's classified, and this man is as honest as we get, so that bike will be as he says and more. If not for motor thingy, I would be riding it today.)

Anyway, I got lucky for being in a small town and ran into a used but nearlynew Burley Sandpoint locally and bought it.

Am installing a Golden Eagle (GEBE) bike engine over rear wheel, so I do not have to pedal hard going up the hill to my home. This engine will not be used much when cruising around - totally free pedaling is accomplished by moving belt off drive ring, which takes about 10 seconds.

I am about to put it together, and wonder who else might have powered up a bent in this manner and comments they might have?

Will post pics later.

I've considered it myself. My ride to work is 20 miles with at least 2 big hills. I'd like the aerobic workout but it'd be a bit much.

What size rear wheel does the Sand Point have? I thought it was a 20" and I didn't think the belt drive would work on anything smaller than 26". But I could be wrong on both points.

What type of motor are you getting? 2 stroke or 4?

Let us know how you like it.

 

[Slugster438]

At the risk of creating a word-storm, or even new forum topic, I will ask:

Anyone have a bent with an engine attached?....

One good forum for gas-powered bikes is www.motoredbikes.com
There have been a few motored bents done there, some kits do adapt on pretty easily. Look around on that site for a couple days, there's some common problems you can avoid.

I would guess a bent is not so good a choice for motorization, unless it has suspension. A motor will push you along at 25-30mph, you'll hit a LOT more bumps a LOT harder than you would normally. With upright bikes you can stand on the pedals a bit over big bumps and unweight the frame somewhat, but you can't do that on a bent very well. Also most small gas engines don't have real progressive throttle control, they're basically idling or at 100%. People with different engines say there's not a lot of sensitivity in-between.

Also for shock absorption you want FAT tires, the biggest you can fit on there, at moderatepressures, and this means you want wider rims (most bikes seem to come with 25mm rims these days...).

Also with the Golden Eagle you tend to get broken spokes, if you don't have really thick ones in there (though I guess this depends upon the engine power and your weight somewhat). Zip-tying them helps, but starting out with thick ones gives you much better chances of uneventful rides.

I have a Golden Eagle kit w/35cc 4-stroke Robin engine kit.
I had it on my RANS Fusion for a while. It worked, but for a few reasons it didn't work out real well. I ordered a Worksman newsboy-cruiser bike for the engine, and just pedal the Fusion normally now.
~

 

[Hive]

Firstly, this is experiment.

My Sandpoint bent has a 26 rear wheel. I bought a GEBE wheel as a switch wheel with 8" long 10mm axle, because most bents have a 34 spoke rear and it is better to use 36 if you plan to put lots of pressure on the spokes. The 34 will work, however and GEBE has drive rings. The wheel can be used on any bike using 26 rear.

I had a GEBE on a TREK cruiser and it was not powerful enough to attack the hill without serious work. Besides, the bike was too nice to shake apart on road - you can see it on motoredbikes.com under GEBE TREK CNC in Pics. Was good lookin rig and so simple.

I went to the bent because I ride too high on aDF and it hurt my wrists etc. I have long legs and did not like to power on the DF. I do not go fast or much above 15 when motoring.

Many people use the motor and pedals combined for a good workout, but I prefer to pedal freely.

My past engine was a Honda 4-stroke 25, but went to a Tanaka 33, 2-stroke, reluctantly mixing gas. The latter has a larger clutch and gets .5 more HP at a little less weight. Will see. Also, the gas tank sits upright but had to add longer intake pipe to be sure it reached tank bottom. Running out of gas is not recommended for 2-cycles and why short the tank miles?

BTW these engines thottle easily from low to full power, if the hook-up is done correctly, but I have really never ran full power as too dangerous and hard on bikes not make for speedy street travel with no suspension, even on smooth roads. I am sure a good TREK mountain bike rig will handle all terrain, if rider can. But, I am cruiser and pleasure pedaler.

The Workman is a cool bike. If I ever go back to a DF, I likely go with Monarch type front fork and use some sort of rear suspension on mountain frame etc.

But, it might pay to review the new RANS CF rigs. They seem a happy compromose between bents and DF frames. They are spendy. May go there next.

As I said, will post pics and review experience, once I get going.

That Aglio bent I mentioned above is also on eBay and might be on the recumbent site "for sale" forum, at least it was. Great deal, even with shipping etc. http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/index.php?

 

[Hive]

http://www.motoredbikes.com/viewtopic.php?p=17613#17613

 

[blazingpedals]

I'm enough of a purist that I just don't understand the idea of power-assist. I mean, the units are not cheap; so by the time you get done, you're nearly at the cost of a true moped, which will not have the issues of frame breakage, spoke breakage, kludgy power transfer, too skinny tires, inadequate brakes for 25-35 mph... I could go on and on.

MHO - if you want to pedal you should get a bicycle, if you want power, get a moped or a motorcycle. If you want both, get one of each! Now that you've spent the big bucks, I hope it works out for you. It would be interesting to hear back about it in a year to see how you feel about it. Will you expect to use it less as you get stronger, or will it become a permanent crutch?

 

[Hive]

I understand your point of view. No problem.

Thing is, this is second motored bike. I had TREK CNC Rail 1 DF set up with motor and it was fine, but I did not want to beat up bike - only 200 made - and at 15 MPH, the lack of suspension is noted, but not that bad. So, I sold that beauty, regrettably and moved to bents.

As to cost; $500 for engine and kit, bike might be zero to whatever. I have total of $650 in the bent and engine with Specialized rubber on back, etc.

Moped, scooters? Not the same, not by long shot. Rider often needs special license and instruction with some models and in some states, cannot go where bikes go, and so on. No permits, special instruction, no nothin'!

Still, I generally use only on hill on return trips. I have grown weary of coming home from nice cruise and have to work up major sweat cranking up hill, plus my bad left peg disagrees. Let us say motor thingy is my gift to meself.

Moreover, many many of those using the GEBE kits actually pedal with engine going. Yes, seems goofy, but it ends up making the ride a great way to lose pounds and takes the bull out of going against the wind and it is very much fun.

Still, whatever it takes, be it purist bent, DF, CF, or souped up bike or trike.

I like the option of bike or motor or both and I go wherever bikes go, except bent and rough trails are more or less incompatable, but not so with the CFs, which may be next level for moi! I am intrigued with the RANS models with suspension.Your observations are noted and appreciated.

 

[Aeliel]

I understand your point of view. No problem.

Thing is, this is second motored bike. I had TREK CNC Rail 1 DF set up with motor and it was fine, but I did not want to beat up bike - only 200 made - and at 15 MPH, the lack of suspension is noted,but not that bad. So I sold that beauty, regrettably and moved to bents.

As to cost; $500 for engine and kit, bike might be zero to whatever. I have total of $650 in the bent and engine with Specialized rubber on back, etc.

Moped, scooters? Not the same, not by long shot. Rider often needs special license and instruction with some models and in some states, cannot go where bikes go, and so on. No liscences, special instructions, no nuthin!

Still, I generally use only on hill on return trips. I have grown weary of coming home from nice cruise and have to work up major sweat cranking up hill, plus my bad left peg disagrees. Let us say motor thingy is my gift to meself.

Moreover, many many of those using the GEBE kits actually pedal with engine going. Yes, seems goofy, but it ends up making the ride a great way to lose pounds and takes the bull out of going against the wind and it is very much fun.

Still, whatever it takes, be it purist bent, DF, CF, or souped up bike or trike.

I like the option of bike or motor or both and I go wherever bikes go, except bent and rough trails are more or less incompatable, but not so with the CFs, which may be next level for moi! I am intrigued with the RANS models with suspension.You thoughts are noted and appreciated.

I agree with all that.

Personally I see the notion of a "pure" hobby as a bit loony. If you're having fun with it, more power to you. And if you're riding a bent, most likely youre not in the purest crowd anyway.

The reason I am interested is clear. I have two large hills on my way to and from work. The ride is about 20 miles one way. If I ride to work currently it would be almost 2 hours and I would need a shower badly. With a motor I would still get some excercise without overdoing it, save a large chunk on gas and cut the time needed nearly in half.

I see someone building a motorized recumbent as a realistic commuting solution (bigger tires, heavier wheels and a drivetrain and wheelbase designed for 20-35mph). It wouldn't take much and you could have a 200mpg motorized bike that almost anyone could use. And it could be done for $2000 fairly easily.

 

[blazingpedals]

Moped, scooters? Not the same, not by long shot. Rider often needs special license and instruction with some models and in some states, cannot go where bikes go, and so on. No permits, special instruction, no nothin'!

If you motorize a bicycle, you've legally got a moped. (Thus the name: MOtor and PEDals.) Whatever laws your locality has concerning mopeds should apply, whether or not they're enforced. If it can go over 35 mph (at least here in Michigan) it is a motorcycle and must be licensed and insured as such. Some places allow small sub-35mph scooters (a.k.a. NoPeds) to be lumped in with mopeds.

Here in Michigan, trails and MUPs are marked "No motorized vehicles." That would include motorized bicycles.

 

[Hive]

Who would want to go that fast on a bike???

"Relative to MN, relative to question on state definition of motorized vehicle in a particular revokation case, but the basic explanation is included:

"The answer is truly dependent on where your “electric bicycle” fits in the law, so we will have to determine which of the following definitions fits. Statue 171.01 sb 40 “motorcycle means every motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground, including motor scooters and bicycles with motor attached, but excluding tractors and motorized bicycles.” Because of the nature of your question I am pretty sure you are not talking about a motorcycle. [/font][font=&quot]

"Subdivision 41 states a “motorized bicycle means a bicycle that is propelled by an electric or a liquid fuel motor of a piston displacement capacity of 50 cubic centimeters or less, and a maximum of two brake horsepower, which is capable of a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on a flat surface with not more than one percent grade in any direction when the motor is engaged.

"Motorized bicycle includes an electric-assisted bicycle as defined in section 169.01 sb 4b.” Now according to 169.01 sb 4b “electric-assisted bicycle means a motor vehicle with two or three wheels that: (1) has a saddle and fully operable pedals for human propulsion; (2) meets the requirements of federal motor vehicle safety standards in CFR 49 section 571.01; and (3) has an electric motor that (i) has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts, (ii) is incapable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of more than 20 mph, (iii) is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power alone is used to propped the vehicle at a speed of more than 20 mph, and (iv) disengages or ceases to function when the vehicle’s brakes are applied.” I am guessing that this is the type of “electric bicycle” you are talking about.

"With that in mind we go to statute 171.02 sb 3 which in part states, “A motorized bicycle may not be operated on any public roadway by any person who does not possess a valid driver’s license, unless the person has obtained a motorized bicycle operator’s permit or motorized bicycle instruction permit from the commissioner of public safety.”

"So, no...... a person whose driver privileges have been revoked may not operate an electric bicycle.": from SGT. - MN State Highway Patrol.

As to "No motorized Vehicles," so? We abide and have no problems but where no restrictions are noted, such as bike paths or sidewalks ... No matter really and beside the point.

You deal with Michigan statutes, I deal with MN, others deal with their state laws.

Life goes on, but faster if the motor is running.

 

[Slugster438]

As to why one would want a motorized bicycle--my reason was as a second motorized way to get around, if my car isn't available and pedaling a bicycle isn't practical (for reasons of distance, illness, or just of not wanting to get to my destination covered in sweat). I never expected that the motorized bike was to prevent me from ever exerting myself on a bicycle again.

If you motorize a bicycle, you've legally got a moped. ....

Depends on the laws where you live. Maybe so, maybe not.

There's no federal standard for motorized bicycles, and putting an engine on a bicycle usually does not qualify it as a "motor vehicle". Motor vehicles must be titleable and registerable, and for various reasons bicycles are generally not. In most US states, insurance companies aren't required to cover vehicles that aren't titled and registered so a bicycle in operation cannot be covered under any motor vehicle insurance policy (this is why if you are bicycling and you hit a pedestrian for example--your car insurance doesn't pay for that).

In both the state I currently live in and the state I plan on moving to this year, there are basically no special requirements for motorized bicycles--no registration, licensing or insurance. In Illinois it basically seems to be a legislative oversight. In Arizona, motorized bicycles were explicitly legalized, with some restrictions (16 yrs old, hold any valid drivers license, <2hp / 30mph top speed and so on).
~

 

[Hive]

As to why one would want a motorized bicycle--my reason was as a second motorized way to get around, if my car isn't available and pedaling a bicycle isn't practical (for reasons of distance, illness, or just of not wanting to get to my destination covered in sweat). I never expected that the motorized bike was to prevent me from ever exerting myself on a bicycle again.

Depends on the laws where you live. Maybe so, maybe not.

There's no federal standard for motorized bicycles, and putting an engine on a bicycle usually does not qualify it as a "motor vehicle". Motor vehicles must be titleable and registerable, and for various reasons bicycles are generally not. In most US states, insurance companies aren't required to cover vehicles that aren't titled and registered so a bicycle in operation cannot be covered under any motor vehicle insurance policy (this is why if you are bicycling and you hit a pedestrian for example--your car insurance doesn't pay for that).

In both the state I currently live in and the state I plan on moving to this year, there are basically no special requirements for motorized bicycles--no registration, licensing or insurance. In Illinois it basically seems to be a legislative oversight. In Arizona, motorized bicycles were explicitly legalized, with some restrictions (16 yrs old, hold any valid drivers license, <2hp / 30mph top speed and so on).
~

That is where the homeowner policy comes into play. Of course, when an accident happens, 99% are handled by the defendants and paid, those being motor vehicle drivers and dog owners.

Last point, when I take the belt off the motor, my bicycle can go anywhere I drive it, which is what I do most of the time, so the laws are, by and large, not a factor.

 

[blazingpedals]

Depends on the laws where you live. Maybe so, maybe not.

OK, but license and insurance issues aside, it's a moped.

Main Entry: mo·ped
Pronunciation: 'mO-"ped
Function: noun
Etymology: Swedish, from motor motor + pedal pedal
: a lightweight low-powered motorbike that can be pedaled

I'm not trying to make a right/wrong judgement on whether anybody should do it, I'm just saying, for me, I'd rather keep the two separate and not make my bike a moped. If I wanted a motor, I'd rather have a purpose-engineered machine for it and leave my bike as a bike.

 

[Hive]

Not in MN and other states.

Besides, I was just wondering, if you go back to top, "At the risk of creating a word-storm, or even new forum topic, I will ask:

Anyone have a bent with an engine attached?"

 

[Alaskavan]

I'm looking to buy a tadpole this year, and intend to motorize it. My commute is 30 miles each way, and my body just isn't up to manufaturer's specs anymore. My concerns are mostly about durability of the frame and clearances around the tires (Studs on the front in the winter, fat tires all the time). I'd appreciate wny input on manufacturers, features I should look for, etc.

 

[Hive]

The below link will help. The stuff under Rack ... is great and the Tech threads.

But, will respond to your questions also as they arise.

http://www.motoredbikes.com/viewtopic.php?p=20619#20619

 

[stevetroyer]

I have a Sun Speester CX with a Golden Eagle Bike Engine attached. The engine is the Tanaka 32 CC. My top end is 37 MPH on the flats and it is very comfortable. The Suns Speedster is no longer produced and I got it for half price. The Speedster is a very good bike because it is built like a tank and almost as heavy as one. That is one reason why it is no longer being made. Too heavy for most bent riders. But excellent for putting an engine on! I have Harley riders pull up along side me asking to buy it. I even have women pull up along side me with video cameras taking video of me and my bike! A great way to meet women.

Riding this is a real blast. If you are thinking about it, just do it. You will not regret it.

There are a few things I must warn you about.
First, you will find yourself riding the bike more often when you put an engine on it. You will find any excuse to ride. So be prepared.

Second, if you decide on the Golden Eagle engines, get their heavy duty 36 spoked 105 guage wheels. I went through 2 wheels before I finallly decided that Dennis and Julia knew what they were talking about. Follow their advice. Since putting on the 105 wheel, I have not had one problem even when hitting a pretty good potholes.

Third. Make sure you have some sort of gas tank that you can carry with you. You will get around 200 MPG with this system and you will find yourself putting on lots of miles with it. The small tank on the engine will allow you to go around 25 to 32 miles before running out. E-bay has on it a small one gallon aluminum gas tank that fits nicley on almost any bike.

Fourth...get some lights. You will find excuses to ride your bike later after work and will find yourself losing daylight sooner than you think. Time flies on a motorized bicycle. You will find yourself farther from home and you will want to ride at night due to saving so much gas and having so much fun. Get either halogen or HID. A new LED bike light is comming this fall that is said to be as bright as halogen. We will see.

 

[stevetroyer]

I also would like to recommend coverting to V brakes instead of disk on the drive wheel only. I have on my Sun Speedster converted the back disk brake to v brake and kept the front disk. It was an easy convert because the disk brake cable and assembly can be used with the V-brake system with no need to buy new cables and other hardware.

The front brake should be used more than the back brake and I have found that with the new compounds on the v-brake pads, water is not a problem as it was in the past.

 

[Hive]

Very good advice. I am locked into the current brakes on the Burley, and will look into the disk version for front...below is new link for pics

http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=5562

 

[stevetroyer]

I have put a Golden Eagle 32cc Tanaka 2 stroke on my Sun CX Speedster short wheelbase recumbent and I love it!

I ride it more than I drive my car now. I get about 200 smiles per gallon.

It is the ultimate human / gasoline hybrid vehicle. I get a lot of comments and smiles from people all the time. Harley riders pull up along side and ask about it a lot.

The top speed is 39 MPH on the flats and there has yet been a hill I cannot conquer. I figure that I have saved in gas and insurance costs the cost of the engine and I have lost over 40 lbs while having the time of my life.

I converted to V brakes on the back and kept the disk on the front.

I also found myself refueling the 28 oz tank often because of the miles I have been putting on it. So I converted a plastic 1 gallon tank to a permanent tank that feeds the engine.

In the last 3 and a half months I have had the bike converted over to Golden Eagle engine power, I have put on almost 4 thousand miles. I would ride it every day if I could. Up here in Ohio we have a lot of rain and snow so I have become very aware of the weather.

I have had very little problems with the set up. I did go through 3 rear wheels until I figured out that the folks at Golden Eagle know what they are talking about.

Save yourself some money and get the strongest rear wheel you can.....I now have the Velocity wheel with the 105 spokes and it is incredably strong.

I also have lost lock nuts that hold the engine to the mount. Use plenty of locktite.

Change the clamp for the throttle to a automotive stainless steel worm band clamp. The clip on clamp they provide is not strong enough.

I would also recommend getting the longer throttle cable for a recumbent. The one that comes with the kit is too short.

I run Amzoil in the 2 stroke. It seems to run better and get better mileage. My plug stays cleaner with the Amzoil also.

I would recommend running a second wire from the kill switch to ground the engine out. The kill switch when I mounted it was not working. The handelbar is insulated from the bike engine by the mounting system of the handlebar on the Speedster. I ran a ground wire to the engine from the kill switch and the problem was solved.

I would also recommend getting a light system for your bike. You will find yourself going further from home with this set up and you will find yourself in the dark more often than not.

I made a fairing for the front and I would recommend getting one. The wind at almost 40 is very punnishing and it will get you tired. The fairing is great for cooler weather riding and if you get caught in a rain storm which is innevitable.

Been on several long trips with it. From Cleveland to Columbus and back for just a little over 4 bucks. Down to Cincinnati with an overnight stay over and back the next day. Total gas cost was 6 bucks at 3 bucks a gallon. I have put this system through the test and it has passed every time. Very reliable and very cheap to ride.

I've been stopped by police three times. Each time it was to find out where they can get one.

If you are thinking about getting a Golden Eagle bike engine kit, don't think about it any more. Just do it! You will not be sorry.