'bent specific shifter?

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Seth Jayson, May 16, 2003.

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  1. Seth Jayson

    Seth Jayson Guest

    Hey folks,

    Just got back from a visit with the folks at SRAM headquarters here in Chicago. During the course of
    conversation, it came up that I ride 'bent, and one of the folks there asked me if there was
    something "they could do" for bent riders, (shifterwise, anyway). Anyway, I thought it was an
    interesting question, and I'll forward any ideas in this thread to the appropriate folks that way,
    just for fun.

    I was thinking that, for "normal" bars, like say, the T kind on a Rans, grip twisters work
    darn well. But on bars that are swept back, like those on a Bacchetta or Volae, or those that
    stick straight up in the air from a USS system there might be room for improvement on the
    twist or bar end.

    Maybe some kind of trigger shifter that's set up a bit like the trigger on a jet joystick (or a
    computer joystick)?

    So I say, submit ideas here, and we'll run 'em past SRAM. Can't hurt.

    Sj
     
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  2. John Riley

    John Riley New Member

    Joined:
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    What about stronger springs in the tensioner in the derailleur to cope with the long chain?

    johnriley1 (at) rogers.com
     
  3. Jim H

    Jim H Guest

    Actually someone could come up with a totally new design, making use of the fact that the recumbent
    rider isn't leaning on his hands.
     
  4. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Seth Jayson wrote:
    >
    > Hey folks,
    >
    > Just got back from a visit with the folks at SRAM headquarters here in Chicago. During the course
    > of conversation, it came up that I ride 'bent, and one of the folks there asked me if there was
    > something "they could do" for bent riders, (shifterwise, anyway). Anyway, I thought it was an
    > interesting question, and I'll forward any ideas in this thread to the appropriate folks that way,
    > just for fun....

    I would prefer that they would spend their time developing a QR for the DualDrive hub.

    My $0.0273 (Canadian) worth.

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  5. Jay

    Jay Guest

    alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
    >Seth Jayson at [email protected] wrote on 5/16/03 3:38 PM:

    > Hey folks,
    >
    > Just got back from a visit with the folks at SRAM headquarters here in Chicago. During the course
    > of conversation, it came up that I ride 'bent, and one of the folks there asked me if there was
    > something "they could do" for bent riders, (shifterwise, anyway). Anyway, I thought it was an
    > interesting question, and I'll forward any ideas in this thread to the appropriate folks that way,
    > just for fun.
    >
    > I was thinking that, for "normal" bars, like say, the T kind on a Rans, grip twisters work darn
    > well. But on bars that are swept back, like those on a Bacchetta or Volae, or those that stick
    > straight up in the air from a USS system there might be room for improvement on the twist or
    > bar end.
    >
    > Maybe some kind of trigger shifter that's set up a bit like the trigger on a jet joystick (or a
    > computer joystick)?
    >
    > So I say, submit ideas here, and we'll run 'em past SRAM. Can't hurt.

    ONE: On underseat U bar steering the grip shift is upside down. When I use one I am using the
    weakest part of my hand (little fingers). When I was considering a Rohloff internal hub- that darn
    gripshift became a long-term factor. TWO: It would be very handy to have a place to rest the hands
    on a U-bar steering and still reach the shifters and brakes.
     
  6. Jay

    Jay Guest

    in article [email protected], Tom Sherman at [email protected] wrote on
    5/16/03 10:39 PM:

    >
    > Seth Jayson wrote:
    >>
    >> Hey folks,
    >>
    >> Just got back from a visit with the folks at SRAM headquarters here in Chicago. During the course
    >> of conversation, it came up that I ride 'bent, and one of the folks there asked me if there was
    >> something "they could do" for bent riders, (shifterwise, anyway). Anyway, I thought it was an
    >> interesting question, and I'll forward any ideas in this thread to the appropriate folks that
    >> way, just for fun....
    >
    > I would prefer that they would spend their time developing a QR for the DualDrive hub.

    QR ?
     
  7. Daniel Payne

    Daniel Payne Guest

    On 16-May-2003, Jay <[email protected]> wrote:

    > > Rans, grip twisters work darn well. But on bars that are swept back, like those on a Bacchetta
    > > or Volae, or those that stick straight up in the air from a USS system there might be room for
    > > improvement on the twist or bar end.
    > >
    > > Maybe some kind of trigger shifter that's set up a bit like the trigger on a jet joystick (or a
    > > computer joystick)?
    > >
    > > So I say, submit ideas here, and we'll run 'em past SRAM. Can't hurt.
    >
    > ONE: On underseat U bar steering the grip shift is upside down. When I use one I am using the
    > weakest part of my hand (little fingers). When I was considering a Rohloff internal hub- that darn
    > gripshift became a long-term factor. TWO: It would be very handy to have a place to rest the hands
    > on a U-bar steering and still reach the shifters and brakes.

    The rapid fire shifters worked very well , for me, on the USS R44 vision. When I converted it to ASS
    it worked well on the burly style inverted vee handlebar that i installed. I did not think that i
    would like the sram rocket shorty twistgrips on the Aero i got, but after 100 miles i think they are
    marvy. Twist, twist, and you are in the gear that you want. They are much faster, and i don't seem
    to rip off as many thumbnails, but then i am a very graceful in the motor control department...

    Daniel
     
  8. Daniel Payne

    Daniel Payne Guest

  9. nodiak

    nodiak New Member

    Joined:
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    I've had trouble with the half pipe Attacks left shifter pulling apart when using them on my Bacchetta h'bars. After the second time they are useless, small piece of internal plastice broke off and lost. They were brand new' though a sale item (maybe why). The right one is still together but I don't trust it on these type of bars. I have a 9.0 set that locks the parts together, maybe they already figured this out? Don
     
  10. Rocketman58

    Rocketman58 Guest

    How about 9 speed "Thumb shifters" (since Shimano won't make them). If they had a friction option
    that would be even better (just in case of a crash miles from home).

    How about a shifting system that lets you shift both front and rear with one hand, and can be used
    with either the left or right hand (for us riders with one bad wrist/hand).

    Rocketman58

    [email protected] (Seth Jayson) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hey folks,
    >
    > Just got back from a visit with the folks at SRAM headquarters here in Chicago. During the course
    > of conversation, it came up that I ride 'bent, and one of the folks there asked me if there was
    > something "they could do" for bent riders, (shifterwise, anyway). Anyway, I thought it was an
    > interesting question, and I'll forward any ideas in this thread to the appropriate folks that way,
    > just for fun.
    >
    > I was thinking that, for "normal" bars, like say, the T kind on a Rans, grip twisters work darn
    > well. But on bars that are swept back, like those on a Bacchetta or Volae, or those that stick
    > straight up in the air from a USS system there might be room for improvement on the twist or
    > bar end.
    >
    > Maybe some kind of trigger shifter that's set up a bit like the trigger on a jet joystick (or a
    > computer joystick)?
    >
    > So I say, submit ideas here, and we'll run 'em past SRAM. Can't hurt.
    >
    > Sj
     
  11. On 17 May 2003 14:01:09 +0950, nodiak <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I've had trouble with the half pipe Attacks left shifter pulling apart when using them on my
    >Bacchetta h'bars.

    Do you mean the rubber grip slides away from the shifter, allowing the shifter to come apart? I've
    had that happen too, and I agree a more secure retainer would be nice.

    Other than that I think SRAM shifters work well on recumbents. The only exception is U-bar USS
    handlebars, where Shimano bar-end shifters work much better.

    Ken Kobayashi [email protected] http://solarwww.mtk.nao.ac.jp/kobayashi/personal/
     
  12. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Daniel Payne wrote:
    >
    > On 16-May-2003, Jay <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > QR ?
    >
    > Quick Release.

    Yes. Both the older 3x7 and the newer 3x8/9 DualDrive hubs have axle nuts instead of a QR. The new
    DualDrive is also not compatible with the
    B.O.B. hitch.

    On the subject of SRAM, DualDrive and shifters, an optional separate shifter for the internal
    hub gears would be appreciated by trike users, since the twistshifter portion of the integrated
    DualDrive shifter does not work that well on USS trikes (since it is gripped with the two
    weakest fingers).

    See < http://www.sram.com/product/featured/dualdrive/index.asp > for pictures.

    Tom Sherman - Various HPV's Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  13. Seth Jayson

    Seth Jayson Guest

    > How about 9 speed "Thumb shifters" (since Shimano won't make them). If they had a friction option
    > that would be even better (

    I don't catch what you mean by thumb shifters...

    SRAM recently announced a new trigger-type shifter, uses thumb for shifting both ways. I tried them
    out on their test track and they were nice for MTB shifters, although I'd say I still prefer the
    grip twisters. One nice thing they did with their triggers is include the indicator in the band that
    secures the shifter to the handlebar. The resulting device is pretty compact and stylish.

    I think a non-twist system for USS type steering systems would be a good thing to have, but I've
    only spent a little time on such bikes. Even so, I wondered about the twisting action with the small
    part of my hand. And I'm not really a fan a bar-end shifters either. The twisters really spoiled me,
    I think. everything I need on my bike, shift, brake, bell and computer, is in reach without looking,
    without moving my hand on the bars.
     
  14. nodiak

    nodiak New Member

    Joined:
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    >I've had trouble with the half pipe Attacks left shifter pulling apart when using them on my
    >Bacchetta h'bars.

    Do you mean the rubber grip slides away from the shifter, allowing the shifter to come apart? I've
    had that happen too, and I agree a more secure retainer would be nice.

    Yes Ken, like that. I now prefer shorties for that reason, but had just bought another half pipe set (9.0 this time). Rats. Maybe I'll post for a trade for shorties. (maybe I just did...) Don
     
  15. Not a 'bent specific suggestion, but perhaps a "roadie"
    vs. MTB suggestion (minor) for their grip shifters:

    I really like the 9.0 twisters on my V-rex with one exception - the hard, loud detent when
    up-shifting. On my MTB this is desirable to help avoid accidentally grabbing a fistful of gears on
    some precarious uphill single-track, but not when riding the V-rex -- where it is simply annoying.
    Perhaps they could provide a user selectable option to make the up-shift detent the same light click
    as the down-shift?

    -- rtmc

    "Seth Jayson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:b76915a0.03[email protected]...
    |
    | <snip>
    |
    | So I say, submit ideas here, and we'll run 'em past SRAM. Can't hurt.
    |
    | Sj
     
  16. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

  17. Rocketman58

    Rocketman58 Guest

    I don't catch what you mean by thumb shifters...

    ... I thought everyone knew what thumb shifters are. I guess if you are sort of newer to cycling or
    never saw an older mountainbike, you may not know. Thumb shifters were the mainstay of MTB shifting
    from the late 70s through the early 90s. They were pre-rapidfire and pre-grip shift. You will still
    find a select group of people who hold them to be the best shifters ever made - the holy grail of
    shifters. They still demand a premium on ebay.

    Thumb shifters are simple and rugged. Maybe too rugged. I am still using two pairs of Shimano XTs on
    MTBs (mountainbikes). They have out lasted dozens of frames and every other component I have ever
    purchased. (I personally think Shimano killed them off because they would never wear out!) They were
    phased out for the less durable rapidfire.

    They also had a friction option. This let you use the friction mode incase you had a problem and the
    indexing did not work. I've used this a couple of times after smashing a rear deraileur.

    As far as what they look like - they are just a simple lever. The lever sits across the top of the
    bar. The pivit point is just in front of the bar. You shift to a lower gear by pushing the lever
    forward with your thumb, the palm of you hand, or even your whole hand. You shift to a higher gear
    by pulling back on the lever with a finger or two, or any other part of you hand. Since you are not
    limited to shifting with just a thumb or one or two fingers, your hands/fingers do not get tired or
    cramped so easy.

    I can not use grip shift or rapidfire shifters due to a wrist/hand disability. I can use thumb
    shifters however. The only problem is they have not been made for a number of years. They are only
    6/7/8 speed - depending on model. No 9 speed. A number of us are still waiting for those 9 speed
    thumb shifters.
     
  18. Phil Wolfe

    Phil Wolfe Guest

    --------------B763653CBEFBF8996FCF945C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    Check out these 9 speed thumbshifters!
    http://www.forge-mtb.com/shifters.asp?cat=FORGEMTB&product=FMBF001

    Philip Wolfe West Allis,WI

    rocketman58 wrote:

    > I don't catch what you mean by thumb shifters...
    >
    > ... I thought everyone knew what thumb shifters are. I guess if you are sort of newer to cycling
    > or never saw an older mountainbike, you may not know. Thumb shifters were the mainstay of MTB
    > shifting from the late 70s through the early 90s. They were pre-rapidfire and pre-grip shift. You
    > will still find a select group of people who hold them to be the best shifters ever made - the
    > holy grail of shifters. They still demand a premium on ebay.
    >
    > Thumb shifters are simple and rugged. Maybe too rugged. I am still using two pairs of Shimano XTs
    > on MTBs (mountainbikes). They have out lasted dozens of frames and every other component I have
    > ever purchased. (I personally think Shimano killed them off because they would never wear out!)
    > They were phased out for the less durable rapidfire.
    >
    > They also had a friction option. This let you use the friction mode incase you had a problem and
    > the indexing did not work. I've used this a couple of times after smashing a rear deraileur.
    >
    > As far as what they look like - they are just a simple lever. The lever sits across the top of the
    > bar. The pivit point is just in front of the bar. You shift to a lower gear by pushing the lever
    > forward with your thumb, the palm of you hand, or even your whole hand. You shift to a higher gear
    > by pulling back on the lever with a finger or two, or any other part of you hand. Since you are
    > not limited to shifting with just a thumb or one or two fingers, your hands/fingers do not get
    > tired or cramped so easy.
    >
    > I can not use grip shift or rapidfire shifters due to a wrist/hand disability. I can use thumb
    > shifters however. The only problem is they have not been made for a number of years. They are only
    > 6/7/8 speed - depending on model. No 9 speed. A number of us are still waiting for those 9 speed
    > thumb shifters.

    --------------B763653CBEFBF8996FCF945C Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

    <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Check out these 9 speed
    thumbshifters! <br> <a href="http://www.forge-mtb.com/shifters.asp?cat=FORGEMTB&product=FMBF00-
    1">http://www.forge-mtb.com/shifters.asp?cat=FORGEMTB&product=FMBF001</a>
    <p>Philip Wolfe <br>West Allis,WI <br> <br> <br> <br>
    <q>rocketman58 wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>I don't catch what you mean by thumb shifters...
    <r>... I thought everyone knew what thumb shifters are. I guess if you <br>are sort of newer
    to cycling or never saw an older mountainbike, you <br>may not know. Thumb shifters were
    the mainstay of MTB shifting from <br>the late 70s through the early 90s. They were
    pre-rapidfire and <br>pre-grip shift. You will still find a select group of people
    who <br>hold them to be the best shifters ever made - the holy grail of <br>shifters. They
    still demand a premium on ebay.
    <s>Thumb shifters are simple and rugged. Maybe too rugged. I am still <br>using two
    pairs of Shimano XTs on MTBs (mountainbikes). They have out <br>lasted dozens of frames and
    every other component I have ever <br>purchased. (I personally think Shimano killed
    them off because they <br>would never wear out!) They were phased out for the less durable
    <br>rapidfire.
    <t>They also had a friction option. This let you use the friction mode <br>incase you had a
    problem and the indexing did not work. I've used <br>this a couple of times after smashing
    a rear deraileur.
    <u>As far as what they look like - they are just a simple lever. The <br>lever sits across the
    top of the bar. The pivit point is just in <br>front of the bar. You shift to a lower
    gear by pushing the lever <br>forward with your thumb, the palm of you hand, or even your whole
    <br>hand. You shift to a higher gear by pulling back on the lever with a <br>finger or two,
    or any other part of you hand. Since you are not <br>limited to shifting with just a thumb
    or one or two fingers, your <br>hands/fingers do not get tired or cramped so easy.
    <v>I can not use grip shift or rapidfire shifters due to a wrist/hand <br>disability. I can
    use thumb shifters however. The only problem is <br>they have not been made for a number of
    years. They are only
    6/7/8 <br>speed - depending on model. No 9 speed. A number of us are still <br>waiting
    for those 9 speed thumb shifters.</blockquote> </html>

    --------------B763653CBEFBF8996FCF945C--
     
  19. Seth Jayson

    Seth Jayson Guest

    These are all cool suggestions. I'm visiting SRAM again early this week and I'll point a few of
    their guys toward this thread.

    They have folks whose job it is just to dream of new ways to do stuff, so maybe they'll be
    interested in some of the challenges of 'bent design.

    Sj
     
  20. Seth Jayson

    Seth Jayson Guest

    Now I know what ya mean. Those were the standard a couple years before I got my first mountain bike.
     
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