Best American Made Lugged Steel Frame?



J

Joe

Guest
I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
(preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?

Thanks in advance--
 
M

Matt O'Toole

Guest
Joe wrote:

> I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
> expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
> to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
> great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?


You might look at Heron, made by Waterford, but not as expensive as the
Waterford-branded bikes.

I doubt you'll find a brand-new, American-made, lugged frame for much less. It
simply costs too much to run this kind of business in the US. I'm surprised
there are as many frame builders as there are.

Since steel frames last a long time, and it's pretty easy to assess their
condition, you might try to find a good used one. Have it repainted if you want
it to look new. Some painters will completely restore a frame, including
decals.

Matt O.
 
A

Alan

Guest
Check this link out:

http://www.kogswell.com/p.html

A lugged frame for $699.

"Joe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
> expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
> to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
> great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?
>
> Thanks in advance--
 
G

Gary Jacobson

Guest
Aren't these made in Asia?
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY

"Alan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Check this link out:
>
> http://www.kogswell.com/p.html
>
> A lugged frame for $699.
>
> "Joe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> > (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> > regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
> > expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
> > to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
> > great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?
> >
> > Thanks in advance--

>
>
 
S

sfcommuter

Guest
Joe wrote:
> I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too expensive
> for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds to the
> price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes great lugged
> steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?
> Thanks in advance--




I think it will be impossible to find a new inexpensive AND US-made
lugged steel frame. Rivendell's custom frames are made in the US but
are expensive. Their other production frames are less expensive, but
made in Japan.

Kogswell has cheaper lugged steel frames, but they're cheaper because
they are made in Taiwain I believe.



--
 
G

Gary Jacobson

Guest
I've heard good things about these and the price seems ok.:
http://www.jitensha.com/eng/aboutframes_e.html
But I'm not sure if you think $1000.00 or so is too expensive.
I have a feeling I'll be looking for an "inexpensive" custom.
May be a Hab for me though.

Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY


"sfcommuter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Joe wrote:
> > I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> > (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> > regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too expensive
> > for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds to the
> > price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes great lugged
> > steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?
> > Thanks in advance--

>
>
>
> I think it will be impossible to find a new inexpensive AND US-made
> lugged steel frame. Rivendell's custom frames are made in the US but
> are expensive. Their other production frames are less expensive, but
> made in Japan.
>
> Kogswell has cheaper lugged steel frames, but they're cheaper because
> they are made in Taiwain I believe.
>
>
>
> --
>
>
 
T

Todd Kuzma

Guest
in article [email protected]ing.google.com, Joe at
[email protected] wrote on 6/11/04 5:34 PM:

> I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
> expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
> to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
> great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?


As someone else has already mentioned, Heron frames are made in the US by
Waterford Precision Cycles to our specifications. They are production, not
custom, frames which allows us to keep the cost down.

Todd Kuzma
Heron Bicycles
LaSalle, IL
http://www.heronbicycles.com/
 
T

Tim McNamara

Guest
[email protected] (Joe) writes:

> I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
> expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
> to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
> great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?


I don't know why you're hung up on 853, which is intended for TIG
welding and not lugged brazed construction, but there are hundreds of
perfectly good frame builders in the US and thousands around the
world. It's not hard to find them.

As for "mass-produced" lugged frames- well, no. Sorry. The closest
you're going to come is from Heron, Kogswell or Rivendell. All three
are excellent, reasonably priced lugged steel frames. All three have
Websites to check out what they offer:

www.heronbicycles.com
www.kogswell.com
www.rivendellbicycles.com (check out the Rambouillet)
 
M

Mark

Guest
Hi Joe, You seem to know pretty much what you desire, and what you'd
like to have, but I reckon your getting the "sticker shock blues".

I can relate to this "feeling", and like you, I also had a desire for
a very good steel frame, and top of the line components on board to
boot, without having regrets on a super huge investment, just for a
bike.

To some folks, a $4K-$5K investment doesn't phase them. Either they
can afford it, or others will go without many other things to have
this caliber of bike.

None the less, I guess this is a certain fact, that if you won't
settle for nothing but the best, it's gonna cost.

I know there are a few great small companies who build, but most I
believe are custom builders, and it sounds to me that you're looking
for something directly off the shelves.

I currently ride a Steel Frame Bianchi, but what I did, was I found an
NOS Steel Lugged Frame, a Mint NOS '89 Paramount 50th Anniversary.
(Actually an old Waterford is what it is)

Perhaps this is way below the quality of what you are seeking, so you
have the dilemma of having to pay the piper.

Another make, or builder I personally would look to, if I was looking
for the finest steel lugged frames made in USA, would be Richard
Sachs.

Again, price of admission does cost. You can't expect a brand new,
hand made lugged Steel frame to sell for $499.

Being lucky, and at the right place at the right time does help. You
might be able to 'Luck" into a Sachs frame, or something similar, that
somebody has bought, but is forced to sell do to financial, or other
reasons? Ebay may be a venue to search for your dream bike? Hope
these ideas help you some, Mark


[email protected] (Joe) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
> expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
> to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
> great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?
>
> Thanks in advance--
 
J

Jeff & Jane

Guest
If you want the BEST American made lugged steel check out Richard Sachs,
here is a link to his web site.
http://www.richardsachs.com/
"Joe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
> expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
> to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
> great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?
>
> Thanks in advance--
 
D

Dave Thompson

Guest
"Joe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
> expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
> to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
> great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?
>
> Thanks in advance--


Joe:

853 isn't used for lugged frames. Don't get hung up on the particular steel
used, it isn't the most important aspect of how "good" a frame is. More
important is the 'quality' of the build, along with the design and geometry
that suits your needs.

There's a TON of builders out there. Here's an A~Z list:
http://www.bikesutra.com/manatoi.html Start doing some research and making
some enquiries. It's part of the fun of buying.
 
D

Dan Daniel

Guest
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:27:38 -0700, "Dave Thompson"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>853 isn't used for lugged frames. Don't get hung up on the particular steel
>used, it isn't the most important aspect of how "good" a frame is. More
>important is the 'quality' of the build, along with the design and geometry
>that suits your needs.
>
>There's a TON of builders out there. Here's an A~Z list:
>http://www.bikesutra.com/manatoi.html Start doing some research and making
>some enquiries. It's part of the fun of buying.
>


I'll second this. Find a frame builder and talk out the possibilities.

For $800, $200 for a fork, there are people like...

http://www.mikkelsenframes.com/pages/803200/index.htm

This price point seems about typical for your 'second tier' builders,
meaning those without the national reputations but who will probably
give you as good or better a frame as the top five.
 
Z

Zog The Undeniable

Guest
Joe wrote:

> I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
> expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
> to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
> great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?


853 is actually designed for TIG welding, so that's what most builders do.
 
A

A Muzi

Guest
> "Joe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
>>(preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
>>regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
>>expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
>>to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
>>great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?


Dave Thompson wrote:
> 853 isn't used for lugged frames. Don't get hung up on the particular steel
> used, it isn't the most important aspect of how "good" a frame is. More
> important is the 'quality' of the build, along with the design and geometry
> that suits your needs.
>
> There's a TON of builders out there. Here's an A~Z list:
> http://www.bikesutra.com/manatoi.html Start doing some research and making
> some enquiries. It's part of the fun of buying.
>
>

My understanding of that is Reynolds produces 853 with a
shorter thicker butt for welding and a more traditional tube
for lugged frames.
Otherwise I'm in agreement with Dave- it is hardly the most
critic aspect. In fact better builders mix tube and leave
the stickers off.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
 
B

Bonehenge

Guest
On 11 Jun 2004 15:34:31 -0700, [email protected] (Joe) wrote:

>Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
>great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?


You said "best" and "less money"...

Barry
 
J

Joe

Guest
Todd Kuzma <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BCEFCD20.1E74F%[email protected]>...
> in article [email protected], Joe at
> [email protected] wrote on 6/11/04 5:34 PM:
>
> > I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> > (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> > regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
> > expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
> > to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
> > great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?

>
> As someone else has already mentioned, Heron frames are made in the US by
> Waterford Precision Cycles to our specifications. They are production, not
> custom, frames which allows us to keep the cost down.
>
> Todd Kuzma
> Heron Bicycles
> LaSalle, IL
> http://www.heronbicycles.com/



Todd--How does one of your bikes differ from a 2200-series Waterford?
From what I understand, Waterford uses 853 tubesets in the lugged 2200
model and from what I hear, they are quite lightweight. What type of
steel is used in Herons and how do weights compare to the Waterford
2200s?
 
J

Joe

Guest
"Dave Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Joe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > I've been looking around for a great American-made LUGGED steel frame
> > (preferably with 853 steel). I don't need anything custom, just a
> > regular size. I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
> > expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
> > to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
> > great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money?
> >
> > Thanks in advance--

>
> Joe:
>
> 853 isn't used for lugged frames. Don't get hung up on the particular steel
> used, it isn't the most important aspect of how "good" a frame is. More
> important is the 'quality' of the build, along with the design and geometry
> that suits your needs.
>
> There's a TON of builders out there. Here's an A~Z list:
> http://www.bikesutra.com/manatoi.html Start doing some research and making
> some enquiries. It's part of the fun of buying.


Thanks much--this list is real useful.
 
Q

Qui si parla Campagnolo

Guest
chicago-<< I've looked at Waterford, but they are WAY too
expensive for what I need (all the custom stuff they do obviously adds
to the price). Does anybody know of a builder/company that makes
great lugged steel (e.g. 853 tubeset) frames for less money? >><BR><BR>

Ya gets what ya pay for. Waterford, Nobilette, Sachs, others are wonderful,
lifetime rides.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
 
T

Todd Kuzma

Guest
Joe wrote:

> Todd--How does one of your bikes differ from a 2200-series Waterford?
> From what I understand, Waterford uses 853 tubesets in the lugged 2200
> model and from what I hear, they are quite lightweight. What type of
> steel is used in Herons and how do weights compare to the Waterford
> 2200s?


Our frames use a double-butted cromoly that we source from
Reynolds and True Temper. It's essentially the same spec
(wall thickness, diameter, butting) as the 531 OS tubing
used in the earlier Herons. We occasionally will use some
531 OS that is left if it is the right size.

The Heron Road or Rally will have a bit more upright
position and a little slower steering than the 2200.
Consider it a 1970s race geometry. The Herons allow for
greater tire clearance, and we have eyelets front and rear
if you ever want to install fenders or racks.

The tubing itself uses a thicker wall than the 2200. This
adds some weight, but it also makes the frame more suitable
for larger riders and/or riders who carry gear.

Of course, Waterford offers similar frames in the RS, RS-E,
and RS-T models.

Additionally, Waterfords have fancier paint jobs and are
full custom. Herons are production-built, meaning no
options or customs, and are offered in four standard colors.

Todd Kuzma
Heron Bicycles
Tullio's Big Dog Cyclery
LaSalle, Il 815-223-1776
http://www.heronbicycles.com
http://www.tullios.com
 
B

Baird Webel

Guest
On 6/12/04 12:20 PM, in article [email protected], "Todd Kuzma"
<[email protected]> wrote:


> The Heron Road or Rally will have a bit more upright
> position and a little slower steering than the 2200.
> Consider it a 1970s race geometry. The Herons allow for
> greater tire clearance, and we have eyelets front and rear
> if you ever want to install fenders or racks.



It may be 1970s race geometry, but the Heron road frame races today very
nicely. I raced mine in a local (no. VA.) crit last weekend and ended with
my best placing in about 5 years. Very nice bike for the money. Only thing
I'd change would be the seat tube waterbottle placement, which is a little
low for my taste, but I just used a clamp for the top of the one I have on
and it works fine.

Baird