Best British Rider Ever :



wolfix said:
I was aware. I was being polite but more so I was hoping to open a very interesting thread to include "English speaking riders, "

OK, but the thread title is "Best British Rider" and "British" is hardly synonomous with "Anglophone". Start a new thread if you must, but I think it's been already done.

You own a pub?
 
wolfix said:
I was aware. I was being polite but more so I was hoping to open a very interesting thread to include "English speaking riders, " without having to include Lemond & Armstrong. "Continental Influenced" rider types. But I still go back to Reg Harris. Four World championships on the Track which the Great Britains have had excellent success. And not to bring the subject of dope up, but Simpson did die with three vials in his rear pocket.
And I do not need anyone to apologize for me being an "unaware political American." International students was the basis of my pub's business the past 4 years. My girlfriend teaches International Studies at the local university. I have a set of twin boys that live with their Greek mother outside of Athens. My oldest daughter is in the process of marrying a Irish citizen. My youngest daughter studied International business and since graduating from university is considering a job in Germany.

The Republic of Ireland (where kelly and roche are from) is not part of Britain.
The northeastern part of the island of Ireland is Northern Ireland and is part of Britain but Sean & Stephen are from the Republic.

As was Shay Elliot however Shay was invited to ride with the British team in the TDF in the 1960's (when there were national teams) and when he got the yellow jersey in 1962 - they played God Save the Queen (Shay was from Dublin).
 
limerickman said:
very good !

DiabloScott said:
Well, Austin Powers was played by a Canadian so I guess that counts.

Thanks for the laughs guys, you can count on me to take a perfectly good thread just about 5 degrees South of taget --->

:D
 
DiabloScott said:
OK, but the thread title is "Best British Rider" and "British" is hardly synonomous with "Anglophone". Start a new thread if you must, but I think it's been already done.

You own a pub?
Not owned but a financial interest. And full control of the day to day activities. Because of demographic changes and the fact it is a lifestyle commitment I got out recently. I loved the enviroment but I woke up one day and realized I had no life. It is a tough business. You have to re-invent yourself everyday. It became my life. For example. My cycling went from 3,000-6,000 miles a year to less then 500. The miles went down , the weight went up. I was working when my friends were off.
Everyone thought we had a goldmine. The truth was that we worked longer hours and made less money then ever before in our lives.
There are other ways to generate the income I need and have some time to realize some goals I have other then financial. And the goals I have that pertain to cycling are to ride[ not race] every velodrome in the US. I want to accomplish a double century ride. I would love to see Six-Day races in Europe. I want to see some smaller races in Belgium. I want to drink Guinness and argue with Lim in Ireland.....[When I'm 90}Then after several pints of Guinness, I want to show Lim how St.Patricks Hill in Cork needs to be ridden
.http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a86/wolfeyes75/rot_img10.jpg

I want to see the Irish Milk Ras...... Where Roche had his beginnings.

When Merckx first met Roche after his triple win in 1987, Merckx congratulated him, saying: "Congratulations Stephen, we are equal now." Roche, in his typically mischievous way quipped: "No, we're not Eddie - you've never won the Rás."

And if I stayed with the pub business, very little of this would be accomplished.
 
wolfix said:
And the goals I have that pertain to cycling are to ride[ not race] every velodrome in the US. I want to accomplish a double century ride. I would love to see Six-Day races in Europe. I want to see some smaller races in Belgium. I want to drink Guinness and argue with Lim in Ireland.....[When I'm 90}Then after several pints of Guinness, I want to show Lim how St.Patricks Hill in Cork needs to be ridden
.http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a86/wolfeyes75/rot_img10.jpg

I want to see the Irish Milk Ras...... Where Roche had his beginnings.

When Merckx first met Roche after his triple win in 1987, Merckx congratulated him, saying: "Congratulations Stephen, we are equal now." Roche, in his typically mischievous way quipped: "No, we're not Eddie - you've never won the Rás."

And if I stayed with the pub business, very little of this would be accomplished.

Let me tell you, Wolf - you and me would have a very tough time climbing Patricks Hill in Cork.
It's 25% gradient or 1 in 4. Even Mr Sean Kelly said that it was a tough hill.

Hey but God loves a trier - and God only knows I've tried !

I like that story about Roche and Merckx : and by the way the Ras Tailteann
(now known as the FBD Ras) is getting more and more professional each year.
It was by all acounts one of the toughest amateur races in the world at one time but it is now basically open to professional as well.

My good friend Dermot Dignam organises the Ras and the man who founded the Ras, Joe Christle, was my lecturer in college.

You're more than welcome to come over to watch it - it's on in May every year.
 
limerickman said:
Let me tell you, Wolf - you and me would have a very tough time climbing Patricks Hill in Cork.
It's 25% gradient or 1 in 4. Even Mr Sean Kelly said that it was a tough hill.

Hey but God loves a trier - and God only knows I've tried !

I like that story about Roche and Merckx : and by the way the Ras Tailteann
(now known as the FBD Ras) is getting more and more professional each year.
It was by all acounts one of the toughest amateur races in the world at one time but it is now basically open to professional as well.

My good friend Dermot Dignam organises the Ras and the man who founded the Ras, Joe Christle, was my lecturer in college.

You're more than welcome to come over to watch it - it's on in May every year.
One of the more interesting cycling stories that forms my love of the sport went something like this ...... My memory may not be correct, but the general aspect of the story is true. Sean Kelly was leading a pack of riders up St.Patricks Hill when he fell. I think he was leading the Nissan Classic.. Anyway a team mate offered him his bike , and as this chaos continued, Sean's bike started to slide back down the hill into the pack causing more chaos as other riders fell. ....... Graham Watson made the calculation the grades were 30%......
There were roadmen, men who needed to win to eat. Maybe the cycling world would be better off if the stakes were not as lucrative as they are today. Maybe then the doping would taper off. Maybe amateur races would increase. Maybe the sport needs to be brought back to the people and out of the hands of the money people. Instead of trying to make the sport "BIGGER" we can hope the sport gets "BETTER."
Then the fans can actually own and ride the bikes the big boys do , where now an individual needs to sell his 1st born to own a top level bike that is not going to last.
 
limerickman said:
To meet the legendary Tom Simpson is something special.
I am not old enough to have seen him ride - I've seen the footage though and I've read "Put me back on my bike" and it is evident that the man was a super talent.
Throw in the fact that he was world champion and he won both stage and classic races, his record is superb.
How classic, for you to be praising and extolling the most famous and tragic doper in cycling history!!!
 
Tommy was my hero, I was 11 when he died...RIP Tommy!!

I'd love to buy an old British Bike, I have a couple of Pics of me on my Red Coventry Eagle Road Bike...or Racer as we called them...I should scan and post the Pics...I had it for Christmas the year Tommy died....I wish I still had it....

wolfix said:
Maybe a post should be started as the "Best British Frames?" I am a collector of sorts.... I have ridden a Falcon,a Bob Jackson , a Raleigh Team Pro, and my all time favorite a MKM..... I am in the hunt for a Carlton Track frame.....
 
hombredesubaru said:
How classic, for you to be praising and extolling the most famous and tragic doper in cycling history!!!

I said his record is superb, which it is.

Tom Simpson never wrote a book falsely proclaiming that he was clean - unlike the man you support.
 
He never falsely proclaimed he was clean, he just tried to hide the fact he was a cheat and paid the price.
limerickman said:
I said his record is superb, which it is.

Tom Simpson never wrote a book falsely proclaiming that he was clean - unlike the man you support.
 
mocka58 said:
He never falsely proclaimed he was clean, he just tried to hide the fact he was a cheat and paid the price.

All cheating is hidden until it's exposed.



Our American member isn't especially interested in Simpson or doping (otherwise that poster would have condemned Armstrong).
 
to true..... when they checked his jersey on the side of the mountain they found more gear than an Columbian cargo train... unlike Armstrong and Hamilton, Tommy wasn’t in a state to deny the pills were his !


limerickman said:
All cheating is hidden until it's exposed.

Our American member isn't especially interested in Simpson or doping (otherwise that poster would have condemned Armstrong).
 
What I can't figure out is why every thread on every cycling forum eventually degenerates into, "Lance is the biggest cheat, hypocrite, liar, phony, snake in the history of the world" VS. "Lance is the greatest, the only cyclist that ever mattered, greatest rider, greatest TDF rider, beyond reproach, cannot be judged, cannot be questioned."

I am a fan of Lance, always cheered for him and hope like crazy that he never cheated. BUT, given the realities of the sport, it's hard to really believe. I loved his tours, but am glad he is retired and ready to have competition for the next generation. He was fun to watch, but I look forward to tours without him. I want to believe he didn't cheat, but it's hard to really believe.

Why can't anyone else have a balanced view of him like this???
Why do discussions about other, more interesting topics always slide into this Lance loving/Lance bashing waste of time? Like most extreme views, the truth is really in the middle somewhere. Let's move on.
 
Because he cheated and made $20million a year from it. You do the maths.

barnstorm said:
What I can't figure out is why every thread on every cycling forum eventually degenerates into, "Lance is the biggest cheat, hypocrite, liar, phony, snake in the history of the world" VS. "Lance is the greatest, the only cyclist that ever mattered, greatest rider, greatest TDF rider, beyond reproach, cannot be judged, cannot be questioned."

I am a fan of Lance, always cheered for him and hope like crazy that he never cheated. BUT, given the realities of the sport, it's hard to really believe. I loved his tours, but am glad he is retired and ready to have competition for the next generation. He was fun to watch, but I look forward to tours without him. I want to believe he didn't cheat, but it's hard to really believe.

Why can't anyone else have a balanced view of him like this???
Why do discussions about other, more interesting topics always slide into this Lance loving/Lance bashing waste of time? Like most extreme views, the truth is really in the middle somewhere. Let's move on.
 
barnstorm said:
What I can't figure out is why every thread on every cycling forum eventually degenerates into, "Lance is the biggest cheat, hypocrite, liar, phony, snake in the history of the world" VS. "Lance is the greatest, the only cyclist that ever mattered, greatest rider, greatest TDF rider, beyond reproach, cannot be judged, cannot be questioned."

I am a fan of Lance, always cheered for him and hope like crazy that he never cheated. BUT, given the realities of the sport, it's hard to really believe. I loved his tours, but am glad he is retired and ready to have competition for the next generation. He was fun to watch, but I look forward to tours without him. I want to believe he didn't cheat, but it's hard to really believe.

Why can't anyone else have a balanced view of him like this???
Why do discussions about other, more interesting topics always slide into this Lance loving/Lance bashing waste of time? Like most extreme views, the truth is really in the middle somewhere. Let's move on.
I totally agree with you barnstorm, totally. And I have one question for all of you: Does anyone really believe that there is one completely clear champion, who have never used any performance enhancing drugs in any sport today? I'm sure there isn't. The problem is some of them have better biochemists, some worse. And one more problem is in some sports federations are hiding results of testing and protecting their champions, or they don't even fight against doping. UEFA or FIFA would never suspend, not even accuse Ronaldinho or Zidane (for example) and they are playing more than 70 games in season for years, I don't think they could do that on this level without "help". In NBA there is no doping control, simply it would be bad for the buisiness. Compare Heras with Zidane or some other top class player, can you imagine them being suspended for two years? In cycling they at least try to keep things as clear as it is possible.

 
I can actually think of many sports which are a lot cleaner than cycling.

And before I progress this further - I deliberately inserted the Lance Armstrong issue in to this topic - because a certain poster, Suburu, continues to advocate the innocence of cheats like Hamilton and Armstrong, while attempting to pour scorn on deceased cyclists like Tom Simpson.

Not that the likes of Suburu is actually interested in cycling : the only issue that poster is interested in is coat-trailing.

But let's move on the discussion : one endurance sport that immediately comes to mind and is clean, is rowing.
I have advocated time and again that cycling should adopt the same rule enforcement as rowing.
If you're caught cheating, you're banned for life.
Quite simple.

Heras and anyone else caught doping should be banned for life.

Punitive, draconian measures are the only way to solve what is an epidemic
of cheating in cycling.

(and before you come back with "if they're all doing it, then it isn't cheating" :
they're not all doping - and even if they were all doping, it still doesn't make
what they're doing, right).
 
I think four years out of the ProTour is fairly hard and would make some think twice... well some but not all.... insert Hamilton, Armstrong and anyone who has ridden for USPS.

limerickman said:
I can actually think of many sports which are a lot cleaner than cycling.

And before I progress this further - I deliberately inserted the Lance Armstrong issue in to this topic - because a certain poster, Suburu, continues to advocate the innocence of cheats like Hamilton and Armstrong, while attempting to pour scorn on deceased cyclists like Tom Simpson.

Not that the likes of Suburu is actually interested in cycling : the only issue that poster is interested in is coat-trailing.

But let's move on the discussion : one endurance sport that immediately comes to mind and is clean, is rowing.
I have advocated time and again that cycling should adopt the same rule enforcement as rowing.
If you're caught cheating, you're banned for life.
Quite simple.

Heras and anyone else caught doping should be banned for life.

Punitive, draconian measures are the only way to solve what is an epidemic
of cheating in cycling.

(and before you come back with "if they're all doing it, then it isn't cheating" :
they're not all doping - and even if they were all doping, it still doesn't make
what they're doing, right).
 

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