Best Drugged Performance Ever

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Andrew Albright, May 4, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. So I'm going through old cycling videos and ran across the 1997 Tour of Romandy. For my money for
    confirmed cases of drugging, that has to be the most dominant performance ever. In particular there
    was a stage 3 that was this slightly uphill finish. Dufaux started sprinting from 1k out and won by
    10 seconds. http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/may98/romandie98.html He didn't even hide that
    he was that much stronger than anyone else. It would have been the equivalent of someone coming
    into the final sprint of MSR or P-R and winning by 50 bike lengths. 95% domination. 95% doping.
    (190 points)

    Of course one never knows in other cases whether or not someone was actually doping, so I suppose if
    one were to say Pantani's Tour win, then there is good liklihood he was doping, like maybe 80%. So
    if it was a 70% of maximum dominant performance, then that would be Doping Dominant Score of 150.

    Armstrong tour wins. Most dominant performance, like an 85 domination factor and then a good 75%
    doping factor only nets him a 160 total score.

    So in summary, really one is going to be hard pressed to come up with something as good as 1997 Tour
    of Romandy.
     
    Tags:


  2. On 4 May 2003 08:17:05 -0700, [email protected] (Andrew Albright) wrote:

    >So I'm going through old cycling videos and ran across the 1997 Tour of Romandy. For my money for
    >confirmed cases of drugging, that has to be the most dominant performance ever. In particular there
    >was a stage 3 that was this slightly uphill finish. Dufaux started sprinting from 1k out and won by
    >10 seconds. http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/may98/romandie98.html He didn't even hide that
    >he was that much stronger than anyone else. It would have been the equivalent of someone coming
    >into the final sprint of MSR or P-R and winning by 50 bike lengths. 95% domination. 95% doping.
    >(190 points)
    >
    >Of course one never knows in other cases whether or not someone was actually doping, so I
    >suppose if one were to say Pantani's Tour win, then there is good liklihood he was doping, like
    >maybe 80%. So if it was a 70% of maximum dominant performance, then that would be Doping
    >Dominant Score of 150.
    >
    >
    >Armstrong tour wins. Most dominant performance, like an 85 domination factor and then a good 75%
    >doping factor only nets him a 160 total score.
    >
    >So in summary, really one is going to be hard pressed to come up with something as good as 1997
    >Tour of Romandy.

    Bjarne Riis - Stages 16 and 17 of '96 TdF

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/tour96/stage16.html

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/tour96/stage17.html

    Stephen
     
  3. "Andrew Albright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > So I'm going through old cycling videos and ran across the 1997 Tour of Romandy. For my money for
    > confirmed cases of drugging, that has to be the most dominant performance ever. In particular
    > there was a stage 3 that was this slightly uphill finish. Dufaux started sprinting from 1k out and
    > won by 10 seconds. http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/may98/romandie98.html He didn't even
    > hide that he was that much stronger than anyone else. It would have been the equivalent of someone
    > coming into the final sprint of MSR or P-R and winning by 50 bike lengths. 95% domination. 95%
    > doping. (190 points)
    >
    > Of course one never knows in other cases whether or not someone was actually doping, so I
    > suppose if one were to say Pantani's Tour win, then there is good liklihood he was doping, like
    > maybe 80%. So if it was a 70% of maximum dominant performance, then that would be Doping
    > Dominant Score of 150.
    >
    >
    > Armstrong tour wins. Most dominant performance, like an 85 domination factor and then a good 75%
    > doping factor only nets him a 160 total score.
    >
    > So in summary, really one is going to be hard pressed to come up with something as good as 1997
    > Tour of Romandy.

    Giorgio Furlan's attack from the bottom of the Poggio @ 50kph.

    His time was 1 minute faster than Bettini could manage the last few years even being pulled by the
    peloton on the first half.
     
  4. Amit

    Amit Guest

    [email protected] (Andrew Albright) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    Team or individual ?

    I have the centrefold from a '97 Cyclesport in my office which shows the entire Festina team at the
    front of the pack on a mtn. stage, from the heyday of French cycling.

    4 stage wins and GC spots for Dufaux and Virenque.

    They lose domination marks for not winning the race.

    Contender for best individual has to be Pantani's '99 Giro with daily epic solo attacks and making
    Zulle crack and lose like 40 minutes while still contesting sprint finales along the way4.

    > So I'm going through old cycling videos and ran across the 1997 Tour of Romandy. For my money for
    > confirmed cases of drugging, that has to be the most dominant performance ever. In particular
    > there was a stage 3 that was this slightly uphill finish. Dufaux started sprinting from 1k out and
    > won by 10 seconds. http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/may98/romandie98.html

    That's '98 results, but whatev'
     
  5. Mike Murray

    Mike Murray Guest

    Attempting to judge whether doping was used based on the performance observed ignores the facts
    about doping. With the exception of EPO and possibly anabolics for strength events, the performance
    benefits are pretty small if present at all. Using performance to look for doping is like looking
    for your car keys in the kitchen because the light is better there. Doped riders are just as likely
    to be finishing in the back of the pack.

    --
    Mike Murray

    "Andrew Albright" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > So I'm going through old cycling videos and ran across the 1997 Tour of Romandy. For my money for
    > confirmed cases of drugging, that has to be the most dominant performance ever. In particular
    > there was a stage
     
  6. Magni

    Magni Guest

    Pantani winning Giro and TdF.
    Mr. 60% winning the Tour. Thevenet winning the Tour 1975 later admitting he was well doped on
    steroids. Does LeMond using iron injections at the end of the 1989 Giro count as doping in the
    1989 Tour?

    "Steve McGinty" <[email protected]_DOT_.com> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On 4 May 2003 08:17:05 -0700, [email protected] (Andrew Albright) wrote:
    >
    > >So I'm going through old cycling videos and ran across the 1997 Tour of Romandy. For my money for
    > >confirmed cases of drugging, that has to be the most dominant performance ever. In particular
    > >there was a stage 3 that was this slightly uphill finish. Dufaux started sprinting from 1k out
    > >and won by 10 seconds. http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/may98/romandie98.html He didn't
    > >even hide that he was that much stronger than anyone else. It would have been the equivalent of
    > >someone coming into the final sprint of MSR or P-R and winning by 50 bike lengths. 95%
    > >domination. 95% doping. (190 points)
    > >
    > >Of course one never knows in other cases whether or not someone was actually doping, so I suppose
    > >if one were to say Pantani's Tour win, then there is good liklihood he was doping, like maybe
    > >80%. So if it was a 70% of maximum dominant performance, then that would be Doping Dominant Score
    > >of 150.
    > >
    > >
    > >Armstrong tour wins. Most dominant performance, like an 85 domination factor and then a good 75%
    > >doping factor only nets him a 160 total score.
    > >
    > >So in summary, really one is going to be hard pressed to come up with something as good as 1997
    > >Tour of Romandy.
    >
    > Bjarne Riis - Stages 16 and 17 of '96 TdF
    >
    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/tour96/stage16.html
    >
    > http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/tour96/stage17.html
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Stephen
     
  7. Maybe the Gewiss 1-2-3 at Fleche Wallone.

    JT
     
  8. "Magni" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:Snhta.54329
    > Does LeMond using iron injections at the end of the 1989 Giro count as doping in the 1989 Tour?

    Was it against the rules? If not, it wasn't doping.

    JT
     
  9. Jeff Potter

    Jeff Potter Guest

    Yeah, but...

    Sometimes the morons are at the front.

    As per XC ski racing where the biggest recent doping prize goes to what's-his-name for winning
    basically every race he entered in the last Olympics by a long shot. One poor 2nd place dude, Per
    Elofsson---erstwhile Goldie himself and typically not too flappable---shattered his health trying
    to contend in their first head-to-head. Ruined his own Olys just trying to ski as per usual with
    Mr. Dope. I suppose he thought something was wrong with HIM. Oh, and Mr. Dope was actually drugging
    and injecting himself DURING the Olys because he thought he was undetectable. They busted him
    BIGTIME. And a bunch of other winners as well, who were, I believe using the same drug, mainly
    Rooskie ladies.

    Mike Murray wrote:

    > Attempting to judge whether doping was used based on the performance observed ignores the facts
    > about doping. With the exception of EPO and possibly anabolics for strength events, the
    > performance benefits are pretty small if present at all. Using performance to look for doping is
    > like looking for your car keys in the kitchen because the light is better there. Doped riders are
    > just as likely to be finishing in the back of the pack.

    --

    Jeff Potter [email protected] http://OutYourBackdoor.com -- a friendly ezine of modern
    folkways and culture revival...offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats,
    skis...plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music ...plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path"
    travel forums for local fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet stickers! ...Holy Smokes!!!
     
  10. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Maybe the Gewiss 1-2-3 at Fleche Wallone.

    In 1994. Followed by a Liege-Bastogne-Liege where Berzin wins from a 6 rider group: Armstrong,
    Furlan, Chiapucci, della Santa, Rominger. The guy that made the most in prize money from that race
    was Ferrari, although he didn't get a stake in Armstrong until the following year. But his stamp on
    that race was large.

    "It seems to be much more difficult this year for some reason. There's a lot of guys that go much
    faster this year. I'm just as fit and feel just as good as last year, but my strength within the
    peloton has sort of gone down. A lot of riders are stronger." - Armstrong, in Lille at the start of
    the 1994 Tour.

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  11. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Jeff Potter <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Oh, and Mr. Dope was actually drugging and injecting himself DURING the Olys because he thought he
    > was undetectable. They busted him BIGTIME. And a bunch of other winners as well, who were, I
    > believe using the same drug, mainly Rooskie ladies.

    Muehlegg, Lazutina and Danilova each got busted after clearing tests after two prior medals. So I'd
    say they all had reason to believe it was, in fact, undetectable. There were at least six tests that
    came up false negative, who knows how many there were in total.

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  12. Me

    Me Guest

    they actually only caught Johann or whomever cause they happened to have the correct test sitting
    around and someone said in effect hey let's see if this one turns anything up.. it was a truely
    random happening in the controls that they latter played up hugely.. Note teh only lost the medal
    for the one race not all of them as he probabl;y should have. Worse was the Austrain team that left
    al of their doping IV's, bas and needles in the house trash for the maid servie to find....

    Jeff Potter wrote:
    > Yeah, but...
    >
    > Sometimes the morons are at the front.
    >
    > As per XC ski racing where the biggest recent doping prize goes to what's-his-name for winning
    > basically every race he entered in the last Olympics by a long shot. One poor 2nd place dude, Per
    > Elofsson---erstwhile Goldie himself and typically not too flappable---shattered his health trying
    > to contend in their first head-to-head. Ruined his own Olys just trying to ski as per usual with
    > Mr. Dope. I suppose he thought something was wrong with HIM. Oh, and Mr. Dope was actually
    > drugging and injecting himself DURING the Olys because he thought he was undetectable. They busted
    > him BIGTIME. And a bunch of other winners as well, who were, I believe using the same drug, mainly
    > Rooskie ladies.
    >
    > Mike Murray wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Attempting to judge whether doping was used based on the performance observed ignores the facts
    >>about doping. With the exception of EPO and possibly anabolics for strength events, the
    >>performance benefits are pretty small if present at all. Using performance to look for doping is
    >>like looking for your car keys in the kitchen because the light is better there. Doped riders are
    >>just as likely to be finishing in the back of the pack.
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Jeff Potter [email protected] http://OutYourBackdoor.com -- a friendly ezine of modern
    > folkways and culture revival...offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats,
    > skis...plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music ...plus nationwide "Off the Beaten
    > Path" travel forums for local fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet stickers! ...Holy
    > Smokes!!!
     
  13. "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > John Forrest Tomlinson <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Maybe the Gewiss 1-2-3 at Fleche Wallone.
    >
    > In 1994. Followed by a Liege-Bastogne-Liege where Berzin wins from a 6 rider group: Armstrong,
    > Furlan, Chiapucci, della Santa, Rominger. The guy that made the most in prize money from that race
    > was Ferrari, although he didn't get a stake in Armstrong until the following year. But his stamp
    > on that race was large.
    >
    > "It seems to be much more difficult this year for some reason. There's a lot of guys that go much
    > faster this year. I'm just as fit and feel just as good as last year, but my strength within the
    > peloton has sort of gone down. A lot of riders are stronger." - Armstrong, in Lille at the start
    > of the 1994 Tour.

    I don't doubt that Berzin was EPO'd out, but that hardly qualifies as the best drugged
    performance ever.
     
  14. Jtn

    Jtn Guest

    luc leblanc, world championships.....1996? or 1997?
     
  15. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >> In 1994. Followed by a Liege-Bastogne-Liege where Berzin wins from a 6 rider group: Armstrong,
    >> Furlan, Chiapucci, della Santa, Rominger. The guy that made the most in prize money from that
    >> race was Ferrari, although he didn't get a stake in Armstrong until the following year. But his
    >> stamp on that race was large.
    >>

    > I don't doubt that Berzin was EPO'd out, but that hardly qualifies as the best drugged
    > performance ever.

    Yeah but he gets extra style points from the high juice level of the chasing group. The juiciest of
    the juiced.

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  16. Chris Daggs

    Chris Daggs Guest

    [email protected] (John Forrest Tomlinson) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Magni" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:Snhta.54329
    > > Does LeMond using iron injections at the end of the 1989 Giro count as doping in the 1989 Tour?
    >
    > Was it against the rules? If not, it wasn't doping.
    >
    > JT

    There has been much speculation that it was NOT iron he injected...

    Chris
     
  17. Jeff Potter

    Jeff Potter Guest

    me wrote:

    > [ ] Worse was the Austrain team that left al of their doping IV's, bas and needles in the house
    > trash for the maid servie to find....

    But this was a thread about best performance, not worst dopers. : )

    Mr. Drugs just left everyone behind at the start of every event he started, as I recall. Total,
    huge, unprecedented dominance. I nominate this for Best Drugged Racing of all time! Different
    sport but what the heck, it's similar. They use the same drugs, probably.

    So his score is 100% doping, 100% dominance. Total victory! As a fitting tribute, I don't use his
    name. Mr. Drugs it is!

    He didn't bother to hide anything in the slightest. He just left everyone at the start in multiple
    events! He was pretty good before this, with some wins, but I think this latest was at least a
    doubling of his dominance. He was always known as a bit mentally flakey, too. I wonder what his
    "coach" was thinking? I don't think he had a nat'l coach, I believe he only had his personal staff
    of criminals. It was all so obvious. Like a Mike Tyson support crew. Did they think it was funny?
    "Hey, I know, dude, don't even hold back. Beat em from the start! What a gas!"

    Apparently the general race support staff populace were immediately pissed off, it was so obvious. I
    think that the other racers were silly to even start with him, but of course that would've been
    unfair. A man has to be caught fair and square after all, even if he's dancing around like a pixie.
    I mean, why did poor Per even try to chase? Well, I guess it's fun to beat the druggies. But Per
    overdid himself trying to do it and wrecked the rest of his Games. He should've just been laughing
    and pointing a finger at that point. But we have our Cult of Silence to maintain, doncha know. Don't
    want to be called a Sore Loser. Well, I'm sure someone in R.S.N. knows more. But it really was
    Shockingly Doped.

    --

    Jeff Potter [email protected] http://OutYourBackdoor.com -- a friendly ezine of modern
    folkways and culture revival...offering a line of alternative books and a world of bikes, boats,
    skis...plus shops for great sleeper books, videos and music ...plus nationwide "Off the Beaten Path"
    travel forums for local fun, bumperstickers and a new social magnet stickers! ...Holy Smokes!!!
     
  18. Chris Daggs

    Chris Daggs Guest

    me <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > they actually only caught Johann or whomever cause they happened to have the correct test sitting
    > around and someone said in effect hey let's see if this one turns anything up.. it was a truely
    > random happening in the controls that they latter played up hugely.. Note teh only lost the medal
    > for the one race not all of them as he probabl;y should have. Worse was the Austrain team that
    > left al of their doping IV's, bas and needles in the house trash for the maid servie to find....
    >

    I heard the IOC intentionally leaked info that they did NOT have a test for Nesp (which Muelegg got
    busted with).

    Chris
     
  19. "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >> In 1994. Followed by a Liege-Bastogne-Liege where Berzin wins from a 6 rider group: Armstrong,
    > >> Furlan, Chiapucci, della Santa, Rominger. The guy that made the most in prize money from that
    > >> race was Ferrari, although he didn't get a stake in Armstrong until the following year. But his
    > >> stamp on that race was large.
    > >>
    >
    > > I don't doubt that Berzin was EPO'd out, but that hardly qualifies as
    the
    > > best drugged performance ever.
    >
    > Yeah but he gets extra style points from the high juice level of the chasing group. The juiciest
    > of the juiced.

    IIRC, he had a teamate in the group, didn't attack on one of the climbs, and the others hesitated.
    He also didn't attack until they were in the streets of Liege where the riding was more technical.
     
  20. Jeff Jones

    Jeff Jones Guest

    "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    >
    > IIRC, he had a teamate in the group, didn't attack on one of the climbs,
    and
    > the others hesitated. He also didn't attack until they were in the streets of Liege where the
    > riding was more technical.
    >
    Just like Tyler this\year! (except that Tyler is not a flash in the pan type of rider)

    Jeff
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...