Best time to train to help weight loss am or pm

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by franco1, Sep 7, 2005.

  1. franco1

    franco1 New Member

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    I'm sure this question has been asked MANY times before but I couldn't find anything.

    I train two hours every day usually at night but I would like to know concerning weight loss would it be benerficial to train in the morning with an empty stomach or in the evenings afterwork.

    My only problem with the evening training is that by the time I finish training its 20:30 and I go to bed after dinner with a full stomach.

    In the am I have to get up at 3:45 to be on the bike by 4am so that I can be finished by 7 to go to work.
     
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  2. SketchySmurf

    SketchySmurf New Member

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    from what I gathered, if you want to burn fat, you work out first thing before breakfast. This way you glycogen stores are completely depleted and your body relies mostly on your fat stores.

    But the flipside is you can't do it very intensely or you'll bonk. I usually just schedule it on a recovery day.
     
  3. franco1

    franco1 New Member

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    This morning I rode for 2hrs and rode at 140Bpm and at about 1hr40 I felt that I needed some food and had a fruit.

    Tommorrow morning is intervals, I'll do the same as today and see what happens.

    I'll let you know. Thanks for the response.

    Just trying to get rid of some extra kilo's before I start my important races.
     
  4. ramon

    ramon New Member

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    Better to train in the morning for weight loss so you can take advantage of the increased metabolism during the rest of the day.
     
  5. mattjf

    mattjf New Member

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    Ceteris paribus, I think it's better to train in the morning for fat loss. However, it's rare all other things are equal. I have a bad habit of staying up late at night doing work. This means I barely get enough sleep if I wake up at the absolute latest before school and work. If I got up 2 hours earlier to ride, I'd be getting about 5 hours a night.

    I forget what book I read it in, but they addressed this issue. Their answer? The best time to workout/ride is the time when you will stay most committed. If your not a morning person, and you force yourself to ride in the mornings, you will be more likely to quit.

    I lost about 30lbs over a summer (2 summers ago) and I worked out in the evening. I doubt you will notice that much of a difference between morning and evening anyway.

    -Matt
     
  6. frenchyge

    frenchyge New Member

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    Ever consider riding for an hour in the morning and another hour in the evening?
     
  7. M. DeKelver

    M. DeKelver New Member

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    From Ross' Maximum Performance for Cyclists....he has a Lipolysis workout where you ride tempo for one hour in the morning before eating. It is a bonk ride, early season only. I imagine it would be possible to add another workout in the afternoon.
     
  8. SketchySmurf

    SketchySmurf New Member

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    Funny thats the same place I got my info from. Careful citing him, though, apparently a lot of "experts" don't seem to regard him or his methodologies in such high regard.
     
  9. dgregory57

    dgregory57 New Member

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    Before I begin, I would like to warn you that everything I say here may be wrong.

    I heard that it is not good for your heart to exercise the first thing in the morning. I heard this at about the time the running guru Jim Fixx died of a heart attack, but I forget the specific source.

    There was some study cited that this was the case, and the hypothesis was that going from your lowest heart rate of the day to the highest rate without much of a transition period could be harmful.

    The whole thing sounds suspect to me, but I thought I would share it. Could it be that type A personalities tend to run in the morning?

    Also, without knowing the physiology, I put the "exercise in the morning to lose weight" in the same camp as the "don't eat late at night to lose weight" view. It is probably just a smokescreen for the real issue.

    I strongly suspect that not eating late at night works because of the types of foods we usually eat late at night are fattening and/or it is simply fewer calories consumed... probably nothing to do with timing of ingestion if calories consumed are the same.

    In the same vein, if cycling raises metabolism, then it should raise metabolism at night too.... Whether your body's metabolism is high during the day, or at night, the same caloric consumption should be the result on average. The real gain is that it probably helps you to remain more active during the day (not so much a metabolism issue as an attitude issue). I present this as a potential because by my limited understanding exercise increases metabolism by increasing muscle mass, which wouldn't be different based on time of day.

    In closing, I would like to say that everything I said here may be wrong.
     
  10. franco1

    franco1 New Member

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    I find that a waste as you need to do at least 10min w/up & c/down therefore 20min is gone leaving you with only 40min of "training"

    Now I can "train" for 60 - 75min with a 30min w/up and c/down ending up with 120min total.
     
  11. franco1

    franco1 New Member

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    Most of our races are in the early mornings obviously for the "fun rides" not to be in the sun the whole day. So if early morning rides where dangerous there would be a lot more fatalities.

    On Tuesday night I trained late, finishing at 21:30 and I couldn't sleep and I usually battel to sleep well at night if I train so late at night.
     
  12. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    Weight loss (fat mass) is dependent upon there being a greater amount of energy being expended compared to being taken in. With that in mind, it doesn't make any difference whether you exercise in the morning or evening, or anytime in between!

    However, exercising in the morning if you don't eat prior to exercise, is likely a poor way to exercise, as glycogen levels will be lower than normal, resulting in training being completed at a lower intensity. For a fixed time duration a lower intensity (power output) will mean a lower energy expenditure (as EE = power x time) and thus, less energy is expended.

    While more fat *would* be expended as a % of total energy expenditure during a training session that occured after fasting (i.e., prior to breakfast), less total energy is expended (see above). During slightly higher intensity training after eating some carbohydrates less *relative* fat would be expended, however the *absolute* amount of fat expended would be higher (not that this actually matters, it's the total amount of energy expended that is the important point).

    Additionally, training during a semi or completely depleted state is likely to be a poor idea in terms of immunological responses. Post exercise, insufficient carbohydrate or low carbohydrate stores will lead you to be more open to infection of e.g., respiratory tract infections. More than several papers by Nieman et al., have shown that carbohydrate (not protein) is very important in maintaining a healthy immune system.

    Ric
     
  13. dot

    dot New Member

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    I think the best time is to ride INSTEAD.
    If I ride in the morning I eat in the evening. If I ride in the evening I eat in the morning... So for me it's better to ride instead of taking meal :D
     
  14. scotty72

    scotty72 New Member

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    Just ride

    Riding is good. Sitting on your backside is not good.

    Simple :)
     
  15. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Great post!!! for this subject.

    I highlight this as a quote in relation to other advice I have seen under the "Health Nutrition and Supplements" threads and again state for those reading this thread and posting under the other thread that is not only my opinion, but like Ric stated enough research indicating that keto and Atkins type diets are not as efficient for a number of reasons. One very important reason is glycogen and recovery issue.

    In 1993 I competed at my lowest bodyfat level and qualified for the NPC Nationals in bodybuilding. It was the first time in my life I achieved such a low bodyfat with a much higher intake of carbohydrates than the previous 9 years of competition. There were times that I reduced carbs, but never completely depleted. I also agree that it made no difference of timing (morning or evening) for bodyfat reduction. Regardless of morning or night the physiology of oxidizing fat is still the same and that is getting into certain training zones and let time and training run its course for preparation or achieving goals.

    It is my personal preference to train in the morning because I feel that I have a full day ahead to consume enough macro nutrients to recover from an intense training event and take advantage of the window of opportunity rather than training in the evening where I might only be able to consume a couple of meals and that may or may not be enough nutrients during the fasting period during sleeping hours. But that is my personal preference only. Don't let my sentiments scare anyone away from evening training events. It is possible to train in the evening and eat properly before bedtime, but in my experience dealing with people over the years I find that 90% fail to eat properly for evening training events.

    Again my thoughts are combined for both this thread and those I have seen under the "Health Nutrition and Supplements" threads.

    Jesse
     
  16. franco1

    franco1 New Member

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    I've been training in the evenings but now with my new job I've had to work late and by the time I get home I really dont feel like training for 2hrs.

    I've found it difficult to get to bed early but I feel that the training is done and should I have to work late that wouldn't bother me as its done.

    Also I tend to get home hungry and nibble then ride and eat. Most of the times I'm really hungry and overeat and got to bed with a full stomach.

    What would you recommend to eat at night after training (remembering this is at 21:00) Carb's or Protein?
     
  17. franco1

    franco1 New Member

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    I've been training in the evenings but now with my new job I've had to occasionally work late and by the time I get home I really dont feel like training for 2hrs.

    I've found it difficult to get to bed early but I feel that the training is done and should I have to work late that wouldn't bother me as its done.

    Also I tend to get home hungry and nibble then ride and eat. Most of the times I'm really hungry and overeat and got to bed with a full stomach.

    What would you recommend to eat at night after training (remembering this is at 21:00) Carb's or Protein?
     
  18. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I believe you need both to be honest. I personally believe each meal should contain all the macro nutrients if possible. Protein, Carbs and Fat all serve an important role in recovery and growth. Fat is an easy task and can be achieve with a teaspoon of extra virgin olive oil poured over your veggies.

    The carbs are essential for recovery and the aminos assimilated from the protein will be the building block during the recovery stage in the sleeping hours. Immediately following training take in a fast acting carbohydrate to begin the process. I cannot give a quote on grams as a count because that is based on training intensity and that intensity may vary for you personally.

    If you have a sports type drink following riding do not feel compelled to drink the whole amount if your training event was subpar for that particular day. I know it is wasteful, but often I may only drink a portion and throw out the rest if my training intensity was low for that day due to work stress or whatever impedes the intensity. Yet my expertise is really in anaerobic activities so I subside to those who have better knowledge in endurance activities and how to govern nutrition.

    Once you get home have a good meal of with a combination of fiberous and complex carbs. 21:00 is pretty late and I can understand why you are having trouble getting to sleep. Unless you stay up really late it will be hard to get in two meals so you will have to make the best of one meal.

    Your situation sounds very much like mine. My career/job can often run later so to guarantee training I get up at 4:30 am and train before work, have a full day of eating to recover and not have to deal with issue of late night training and the complexity of nutrition. Best wishes on finding the right path.
     
  19. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    disclaimer: this is an example only and for my own personal goals


    5:00 slice of wheat toast / fish & flax oil
    5:30 begin training (weights / interval training)
    7:15 whey protein/cytomax drink (post training recovery drink)
    8:00 Oatmeal / begin work day
    10:00 whey protein / slice of "real" wheat toast
    12:00 8 oz. chicken breast / steamed green beans / 1/2 cup pasta
    2:00 whey protein
    4:00 8 oz. chicken breast / steamed green beans / 1/2 cup pasta
    Occasional 6:00 mt. biking (whey protein/cytomax drink (post training recovery drink))
    7:30 6 oz lean steak / 1 cup cous cous / 2 cups steamed squash / 1 teaspoon virgin olive oil
    9:30 1 cup low fat yogurt / teaspoon sunflower seeds mixed in yogurt

    Saturday I do my long road ride and my eating habits much the same, but are higher calorie becauses of the exertion levels are greater than the weekday training.

    Since January I have been meeting my fitness goals and continue to lean out each month and yet I feel good and have not had a day where I felt worn out. Knock on wood
     
  20. franco1

    franco1 New Member

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    This is how today looks like.
    4am Train (intervals) Used Power Bar Endurance
    6:30 Mueslli and Tea
    9:00 Yoghurt and Apple & bannana
    12:00 1 x Grilled Chick Breast and Salad. 500ml Water
    15:00 Whole wheat sandwhich and Jam. 500ml Water
    16:00 Meal Replacement

    Get and run 40min
    Dinner Dont know yet Most Probely Past (Last night was Stir Fry)
    Protien Shake before bed.
    How does that sound.
    I dont drink much "energy drinks" way to expensive. Still got meal replacement from my last Sponsor so I'm using them.
     
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