Best way to travel 5 miles to a train station?

[David Hansen]

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:27:41 GMT someone who may be Catman
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>> As a rough idea, about 90% of pedestrians hit at 20mph survive.
>> About 50% hit at 30mph die.
>> About 90% hit at 40mph die.
>>
>I find this interesting. Is there anything more concrete than 'rough idea'
>or 'about'?

TRL.

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to discover which report.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[Tony Raven]

Simian wrote:
>
> Y'know, most of the people I know who do a lot of cycling have a great
> sense of humour, enjoy a laugh, couple of beers, do stupid things like
> cycle to the top of mountains in the winter, or throw themselves down
> death defying slopes. Most of them climb, or cave, or motorbike, or
> jump out of planes, or similar too.
>
> But. Once in a while, I meet the Other Kind of cyclist. Member of the
> CTC, has a subscription to that dull little magazine that discusses
> the best way to wear Sam Brown belts, votes for the Green Party, y'know.
> Most of them have hedgehogian road sense, dislike speed, sometimes
> they shake their ineffective fists at passing cars and shout after
> the driver for no aparent reason. I suspect that many also go 'rambling'
> for 'fun', and enjoy a spot of gardening.
>
> Why is it that only the latter inhabit u.r.c?
>
>

Cough! I do the former and I'm here. But then I'm also a member of the
CTC. Does that mean I'm schizophrenic?

Tony

 

[Tony Raven]

Ginge wrote:
>>
>>What about the action replays?
>
>
> The same thing but slower, kind of like your atttempt at a witty reply.
> ^^^

I'll get back to you tomorrow with my witty riposte

Tony ;-)

 

[Ginge]

In article <[email protected]>, Tony Raven says...
> Ginge wrote:
> >>
> >>What about the action replays?
> >
> >
> > The same thing but slower, kind of like your atttempt at a witty reply.
> > ^^^
>
> I'll get back to you tomorrow with my witty riposte

I hope you do, typing flames are frequently the last resort of a half-
witted bufoon.

--
Ginge [at] stopthevoices [dot] org [dot] uk

 

[Jon Senior]

Simian wrote:
> Y'know, most of the people I know who do a lot of cycling have a great
> sense of humour, enjoy a laugh, couple of beers, do stupid things like
> cycle to the top of mountains in the winter, or throw themselves down
> death defying slopes. Most of them climb, or cave, or motorbike, or
> jump out of planes, or similar too.
>
> But. Once in a while, I meet the Other Kind of cyclist. Member of the
> CTC, has a subscription to that dull little magazine that discusses
> the best way to wear Sam Brown belts, votes for the Green Party, y'know.
> Most of them have hedgehogian road sense, dislike speed, sometimes
> they shake their ineffective fists at passing cars and shout after
> the driver for no aparent reason. I suspect that many also go 'rambling'
> for 'fun', and enjoy a spot of gardening.
>
> Why is it that only the latter inhabit u.r.c?

I take you're not a regular then? Or are your observations based on your
experiences in this thread?

I appreciate that this is a troll, but regardless of this, there are
issues here regarding road safety. For the record I usually cruise at
just over 20mph, and go down hills at up to 48mph (Fastest so far) but
more often at around 35mph. I am a member of the CTC, shake my fist (Or
more often swear) at idiots who try to kill me, can't stand rambling and
have no garden. I have no idea what a Sam Brown belt is and will only
vote Green when I believe that they have some realistic policies.

Where do I fit into your neat two types of cyclist pigeonholes? In
fact... I think that you'd be hard pushed to categorise most cyclists so
easily. Do your chilled cycling friends not react to bad driving?

Jon (Who ought to know by now, not to play with trolls!)

 

[Catman]

David Hansen wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 19:27:41 GMT someone who may be Catman
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>>> As a rough idea, about 90% of pedestrians hit at 20mph survive.
>>> About 50% hit at 30mph die.
>>> About 90% hit at 40mph die.
>>>
>>I find this interesting. Is there anything more concrete than 'rough
>>idea' or 'about'?
>
> TRL.
>
> I leave it as an exercise for the reader to discover which report.
>
>
Fantastic style you have of convicing people of your point of view.
--
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[Simian]

Jon Senior wrote:
> Simian wrote:
>>
>> Why is it that only the latter inhabit u.r.c?
>
> I take you're not a regular then? Or are your observations based on your
> experiences in this thread?
> I appreciate that this is a troll, but regardless of this, there are
> issues here regarding road safety. [etc, etc]

See? This is what I'm talking about.


> I have no idea what a Sam Brown belt is

Reflective/luminous thingy; sholder strap & waist.


> I think that you'd be hard pushed to categorise most cyclists so
> easily.

It was a caracature, I do realise that there are degrees of over
seriousness and self important dullness.


> Do your chilled cycling friends not react to bad driving?

Why would they or I? For a start it's rare that poor driving
is a danger to me on a bicycle - I can only remember one occasion,
and getting all up-tight about others' failings doesn't seem
worth the effort.

 

[David Hansen]

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 00:15:46 +0100 someone who may be Ginge
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>I hope you do, typing flames are frequently the last resort of a half-
>witted bufoon.

Nice try. However, Tony's postings indicate he is not a "half-witted
bufoon". The humour of his posting appears to have gone unnoticed.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[David Hansen]

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:16:39 GMT someone who may be Catman
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>> TRL.
>>
>> I leave it as an exercise for the reader to discover which report.
>>
>Fantastic style you have of convicing people of your point of view.

I am not a teacher and I do not spoon feed people with information.
If people are serious they can follow up the references, if people
are trolling they will not.

Note - another attempt to divert thread to uk.rec.moptorcycles only
detected and corrected.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[chris harrison]

Simian wrote:

> Jon Senior wrote:
>>Do your chilled cycling friends not react to bad driving?
>
>
> Why would they or I? For a start it's rare that poor driving
> is a danger to me on a bicycle - I can only remember one occasion,
> and getting all up-tight about others' failings doesn't seem
> worth the effort.
>

There's your problem I think. If I could remember only one occasion of
poor driving endangering me when on my bike then I'd see your point. But
I can remember many (and have forgotten the details of more), so I can't.

Still, must remember to stop feeding the trolls, even if the
cross-posting between urc, ukrm and uk.t can have beneficial side-effects.

 

[Dave Larrington]

Simian wrote:
> Jon Senior wrote:

>> Do your chilled cycling friends not react to bad driving?
>
> Why would they or I? For a start it's rare that poor driving
> is a danger to me on a bicycle - I can only remember one occasion,
> and getting all up-tight about others' failings doesn't seem
> worth the effort.

Then I should imagine you're fortunate to cycle in a numpty-poor zone. I
should estimate about one near miss a week, and that's excluding the
excesses of the clue-free sub-Deltas that most bus companies employ in
London Town Devine.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Gawnsoft]

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:52:21 +0100, Ginge <[email protected]> wrote
(more or less):

>In article <[email protected]>, Helen Deborah
>Vecht says...
>
>> About 90% hit at 40mph die.
>
>I am that 10%.

Just to clarify, how do you know that the actual impact speed was
40mph.

(Just to let you know, I am that 10% too, possibly. The car was doing
mph when it put on the brakes. But the actual impact speed is
unknown.)60


>In my view everyone should try it at least once, it's something of a
>life changing experience and really makes you focus on what's important.
>
>Plus, flying through the air looks cool.

I didn't get to fly through the air. :-(



--
Cheers,
Euan
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[Andy Leighton]

["Followup-To:" header set to uk.rec.cycling.]
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:51:41 +0100, Ginge <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Colin Blackburn
> says...
>> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:56:25 +0100, Ginge <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> > No, I say (for clarity) "Take due care", step onto the grass verge when
>> > a car passes rather than reducing the safe passing distance.
>>
>> What grass verge? I can point you to dozens of roads where there are no
>> grass verges. Should I dive into the hedge or over the wall? Or maybe into
>> the ditch? For you convenience or my safety?
>
> Obviously not all roads, but there are always exceptions, most of the
> time roads will have a footpath alongside, or a grass verge.
>
> If you're regularly walking along roads with neither, it would be more
> convenient all round if you simply got a bus pass.

The kind of roads that do not have any accessible space to the side
are usually in areas where there are no bus service along that route.

Again you phrase this as a convenience thing. I fail to see how it
could be more convenient for the pedestrian.

--
Andy Leighton => [email protected]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

 

[Ginge]

In article <[email protected]>, Gawnsoft
says...
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:52:21 +0100, Ginge <[email protected]> wrote
> (more or less):
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, Helen Deborah
> >Vecht says...
> >
> >> About 90% hit at 40mph die.
> >
> >I am that 10%.
>
> Just to clarify, how do you know that the actual impact speed was
> 40mph.
>
> (Just to let you know, I am that 10% too, possibly. The car was doing
> mph when it put on the brakes. But the actual impact speed is
> unknown.)60

Only by what some of my audience told me later that evening. My leg
dented the bonnet and my shoulder put the windscreen through with my
head putting a small dent in the roof.

I don't recall much more than the initial impact, then later coming
round about 30 feet further down the road than where I started. Then
standing up, looking at the car, and passing out.

Ached a bit the next day, I did.

--
Ginge [at] stopthevoices [dot] org [dot] uk

 

[Gawnsoft]

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:52:01 +0100, Ginge <[email protected]> wrote
(more or less):

>In article <[email protected]>, Ambrose Nankivell says...
>> Ginge <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>> > In article <[email protected]>, Helen Deborah
>> > Vecht says...
>> >
>> > > About 90% hit at 40mph die.
>> >
>> > I am that 10%.
>> >
>> Sadly, there's hundreds if not thousands who are that 10%.
>
>I don't see it as sad, it's just how it is.
>
>I don't believe laws should be changed to persecute a driver, or that
>speed limits should be any slower... If I'd been hit at a faster speed
>and died so be it, the second I stepped off the pavement it was *my*
>risk and my responsibility to manage that risk.

And for the folk who step off the pavement with right of way who get
hit?

Or the drivers who deliberately drive into pedestrians bcause they've
dared to jaywalk?



--
Cheers,
Euan
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[Gawnsoft]

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:56:25 +0100, Ginge <[email protected]> wrote
(more or less):

>In article <BD526E7C.1E6FE%[email protected]>, David Martin
>says...
>> On 25/8/04 4:14 pm, in article
>> [email protected], "Ginge" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>
>> > Face the oncoming traffic, and get out of the way before it arrives.
>>
>> So we have the might is right view of transport policy. So I have a perfect
>> *right* to walk along the road and you (as a driver) have a duty of care to
>> other road users. And you say it is my fault for getting in *your* way as
>> if your journey is somehow more important than mine?
>
>No, I say (for clarity) "Take due care", step onto the grass verge when
>a car passes rather than reducing the safe passing distance. If driving
>a car down a narrow lane I'd do the same, observe for oncoming traffic
>and if we needed to pass and the road was narrow I'd drive onto the
>grass verge to make passing possible.
>
>The important fact is *I'd take responsibility* for my own safe
>positioning. in a car or on foot, and not assume the other car to be
>safe.
>
>> Remind me to walk over your car instead of round it because you didn't get
>> it out of my way but left it littering the queens highway..
>
>That is clearly nonsense, so I'll disregard it, as a statement it only
>undermines your argument being taken seriously.
>
>> >> And if the person is below the age of legal responsibility?
>> >
>> > Bit daft that, a 14 year old should still be capable of taking
>> > responsibility for crossing the road for example, and if they're too
>> > young then I'd ask why weren't they being supervised by an adult?
>>
>> So an eight year old is not allowed in GingeWorld to walk to school on her
>> own?
>
>Personally, no I don't think sending an 8 year old to school
>unacompanied is a wise idea, I certainly wasn't allowed to walk to
>school unacompanied at that age.

Then this explains a lot about your worldview. Just because you
weren't allowed to, does not mean we should withdraw this ability and
experience from all future children.

>
>> So at what age should a child be allowed to walk to school on their
>> own? (Hint: in other, more enlightened countries, children as young as 6 can
>> walk to school along roads with no pavements without adult supervision)
>
>
>
>> >> And if the driver is travelling so fast that the person crossing/using the
>> >> road has no chance to see them before stepping off the pavement?
>> >
>> > When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.. when life gives you
>> > incompetent pedestrians... Paté, I suppose.
>>
>> Incompetent to be able to see a car travelling so fast that you cannot see
>> them when you start to cross.
>>
>> No ESP = incompetent in GingeWorld.
>
>Ever heard of eyes and ears? The average human eye can see well over
>half a mile, assuming a car was doing 60MPH, that's a mile a minute, or
>30 seconds of visibility from half a mile away..

You're assuming clear lines of sight. Unfortunately, drivers drive
fast even where the road is curved, or there are other obstacles to
clear sight lines.

>
>Are you seriously saying on a country lane you'd not be able to take
>deciding action inside of 30 seconds?
>
>I'm surprised you aren;t dead already if that's the case.
>
>> Welcome to GingeWorld. If you are in a car you can mow down as many people
>> as you want. If you are in a car the rest of the world is to blame. There is
>> no duty of care.
>
>Welcome to the Internet, a place where it seems blame culture is allowed
>to run riot over taking responsibility for one's own safety.

--
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Euan
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[DavidR]

"Ginge" <[email protected]> wrote
> David Martin> says...
> > On 25/8/04 3:52 pm, in article
> "Ginge"> > wrote:
> >
> > > I don't believe laws should be changed to persecute a driver, or that
> > > speed limits should be any slower... If I'd been hit at a faster speed
> > > and died so be it, the second I stepped off the pavement it was *my*
> > > risk and my responsibility to manage that risk.
> >
> > And if there is no pavement?
>
> Face the oncoming traffic, and get out of the way before it arrives.

If I parked my car (in a reasonable and legal place) and sat in it, you
would take necessary precautions to overtake. If you crashed then
responsibility would be entirely yours.

If instead of parking my car, I put a deckchair exactly where the driving
seat would be and sit in it. Ignoring the consequences, where does the
responsibility now lie when you crash? You seem to suggest that there is a
difference.

No need for the deckchair of course, just be a pedestrian.

 

[Tony Raven]

Ginge wrote:
>
> When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.. when life gives you
> incompetent pedestrians... Paté, I suppose.
>

One serving of paté coming up:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3601008.stm

A two-year-old Birmingham boy has died in hospital after being struck in
the city by a car which failed to stop.

Police said the white Toyota MR2 dragged him along Burney Lane in the
Alum Rock area for around 300 yards at about 1910 BST on Wednesday.

The boy, from Ward End, who has not been named, died in hospital
overnight and a 13-year-old girl who was also hit is in a comfortable
condition.

The car was later found abandoned in Pan Croft in Bromford.


Tony

 

[Jon Senior]

In article <[email protected]>, Simian@in_valid.semi-
evolved.org says...
> See? This is what I'm talking about.

This is / was a serious discussion. ;-)

> Reflective/luminous thingy; sholder strap & waist.

Nah, I have very bright lights instead!

> It was a caracature, I do realise that there are degrees of over
> seriousness and self important dullness.

The problem is that most of those characteristics are displayed by the
first group of cyclists that you described.

> > Do your chilled cycling friends not react to bad driving?
>
> Why would they or I? For a start it's rare that poor driving
> is a danger to me on a bicycle - I can only remember one occasion,
> and getting all up-tight about others' failings doesn't seem
> worth the effort.

Then you a lucky man who lives in a peaceful area. I count on seeing at
least one bit of poor driving (Forcing me to brake suddenly or swerve)
per day of commuting (~15 miles). Some days (Seems to be the last
Tuesday of the month... not really sure why!) it can be three or four
and at least once a month I come very close to a serious incident caused
by someone cutting me up, turning across me, swerving into the bus lane
without checking their mirrors etc. This is why I (and many other
cyclists) get wound up. I have a strange habit of taking it personally
when people try to kill me!

Jon

 

[Catman]

David Hansen wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 06:16:39 GMT someone who may be Catman
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>>> TRL.
>>>
>>> I leave it as an exercise for the reader to discover which report.
>>>
>>Fantastic style you have of convicing people of your point of view.
>
> I am not a teacher and I do not spoon feed people with information.
> If people are serious they can follow up the references, if people
> are trolling they will not.

If you want to convince people that you are right, you may well have to
learn how instead of demanding that people behave in a manner that you deem
reasonable.

> Note - another attempt to divert thread to uk.rec.moptorcycles only
> detected and corrected.
>
huh?

--
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