Better brakes

[Resound]

The one thing about my road bike (OCR3) that annoys me is the brakes. They're nowhere near as effective as the brakes on the relatively crappy MTB that I used to have and as near as I can tell that's pretty much par for the course. Ok, so canti brakes work better than sidepulls. So why do MTBs and hybrids and suchlike use the canti type brakes while the "high performance" road bikes use the less effective sidepulls? If STI brake/shifter levers aren't feasible, I'm surprised someone hasn't gone for non-STI levers with the appropriate amount of cable draw and indexed bar end shifters. So what's the obvious thing that I'm missing that means that all the bike manufacturers as well as Shimano and Campy persist with sidepulls?

 

[NoZX6R]

Resound wrote:
> The one thing about my road bike (OCR3) that annoys me is the brakes.
> They're nowhere near as effective as the brakes on the relatively
> crappy MTB that I used to have and as near as I can tell that's pretty
> much par for the course. Ok, so canti brakes work better than
> sidepulls. So why do MTBs and hybrids and suchlike use the canti type
> brakes while the "high performance" road bikes use the less effective
> sidepulls? If STI brake/shifter levers aren't feasible, I'm surprised
> someone hasn't gone for non-STI levers with the appropriate amount of
> cable draw and indexed bar end shifters. So what's the obvious thing
> that I'm missing that means that all the bike manufacturers as well as
> Shimano and Campy persist with sidepulls?
>
>

What sort of brakes does it have?

I would've thought pretty much any dual pivot caliper would be fine
these days.

My MTB has Avid cable discs which probably have more stopping power than
my other bikes, which all use dual pivot calipers (Campy & SHimano). But
the dual pivots (and even a single pivot I sometimes use) are enough.

Is it a setup issue? The only other thing I can think of is maybe it
needs new cables? Or, it might be that the braking surface on the rims
is a bit worn?

--
Nick

 

[geoffs]

What sort of brakes does it have?

I would've thought pretty much any dual pivot caliper would be fine
these days.

My MTB has Avid cable discs which probably have more stopping power than
my other bikes, which all use dual pivot calipers (Campy & SHimano). But
the dual pivots (and even a single pivot I sometimes use) are enough.

Is it a setup issue? The only other thing I can think of is maybe it
needs new cables? Or, it might be that the braking surface on the rims
is a bit worn?

--
Nick[/QUOTE]

I would think that your problem is a more likely to be a setup issue
than anything else.
Better brake pads can make a big difference as well as actually using some oil on the cables. I can lift the back wheel off the ground using Ultegra brakes reasonably easily when braking heavily and I am a clydesdale.
Top end road tandems that don't need much tire clearance nearly all use dual pivot brakes without any bad reports.

Cheers

Geoff
Co-motion Mocha Copilot

 

[Marx SS]

I don’t own/ride roadbikes so I’m maybe talking outa my derriere, but those roadbike tyres are pretty skinny so I suppose these things are fitted with brakes that put out the sort of braking forces that tyre/wheel combination can withstand.

 

[flyingdutch]

definetely get better brakepads!

lower end shimano groups are kinda notorious for ordinary ones. koolstops seem to get good rep's on here(?)

Im guessing the forces and heat considerations involved in roadbike rims vs mtb ones makes a difference to how much force one can apply

canti's/VBrakes would require (shockhorror!) more weight to put bosses,etc on roadbike and we cant have THAT now can we!?!?

PS toe them pads in too! avoid the 'squealing-pigs' impersonation

 

[HughMann]

definetely get better brakepads!

lower end shimano groups are kinda notorious for ordinary ones. koolstops seem to get good rep's on here(?)

Read all the raves about Koolstop " Salmon" from USA posters on other groups but have never seen them advertised in OZ. Are they available here?
Looked at buying over the net from USA but minimum order and Pack&Post costs were crazy. Think that new pad holders are required as well, not sure.

Got Tiagra Dual Pivot brakes on the SS now. Will need to be careful as very easy to lock back wheel. Havent ridden in the rain yet so that could be where the problems start.

Done all the drop bolt/ bridge stuff and will put pics on SS forum when I have tidied up the rough edges.

Hugh

 

[adam85]

definetely get better brakepads!

lower end shimano groups are kinda notorious for ordinary ones. koolstops seem to get good rep's on here(?)

Im guessing the forces and heat considerations involved in roadbike rims vs mtb ones makes a difference to how much force one can apply

canti's/VBrakes would require (shockhorror!) more weight to put bosses,etc on roadbike and we cant have THAT now can we!?!?

PS toe them pads in too! avoid the 'squealing-pigs' impersonation

I got a good improvement in power putting Dura-ace pads in my
105 calipers, so maybe you could try that, or the Koolstops like
dutchy says.

I also wipe down the braking surface clean with contact cleaner
when I wash the bike, but that's more to stop grit getting into
the pads and scoring my rims. I also stuck some bits of rubber
behind the shifters to stop the lever returning all the way back
if you see what I mean. That brings the levers back closer to
the bars as I've got small hands and makes it easier to brake
from the hoods, and easier to reach from the drops.

But I know what you mean it still doesn't feel as strong as my
MTB brakes.

Adam

 

[HUMBUG]

On 10/08/05 at 09:53:53 HughMann somehow managed to type:

<snip>
>
> Read all the raves about Koolstop " Salmon" from USA posters on other
> groups but have never seen them advertised in OZ. Are they available
> here?

Yep and they're bloody brilliant - wet or dry. I wouldn't use anything
else now... I get 'em from Niddrie Cycles in Melb., I dunno where
they get 'em from though.

--
Humbug

 

[flyingdutch]

I also stuck some bits of rubber
behind the shifters to stop the lever returning all the way back
if you see what I mean. That brings the levers back closer to
the bars as I've got small hands and makes it easier to brake
from the hoods, and easier to reach from the drops.

Arent shimano's adjustable in this regard?
or is it my vague memory reminding me of a review of a special STI model with this ability??

 

[slaw]

On 10/08/05 at 09:53:53 HughMann somehow managed to type:

<snip>
>
> Read all the raves about Koolstop " Salmon" from USA posters on other
> groups but have never seen them advertised in OZ. Are they available
> here?

Yep and they're bloody brilliant - wet or dry. I wouldn't use anything
else now... I get 'em from Niddrie Cycles in Melb., I dunno where
they get 'em from though.

--
Humbug

How long ago? I tried a few places about 8 months ago and mostly got the same response that there was some issue with the Kool Stop distributers. Ended up getting a number of sets from the US. The salmon seem to me to be much the same as the other coloured KooL Stops I've tried, but they tend to squeal a bit if there is moisture in the air or on long descents such as the Nine Mile track featured in Pete Sig's photos.

 

[HUMBUG]

On 10/08/05 at 12:48:41 slaw somehow managed to type:

<snip>

> > Yep and they're bloody brilliant - wet or dry. I wouldn't use
> > anything else now... I get 'em from Niddrie Cycles in Melb., I
> > dunno where they get 'em from though.


> How long ago? I tried a few places about 8 months ago and mostly got

Hmmm, about a month or so ago but it took 3 weeks for the shop to get
'em in. Perhaps they ended up just getting 'em from the US and
bypassing the local distributers - I dunno.

> the same response that there was some issue with the Kool Stop
> distributers. Ended up getting a number of sets from the US. The
> salmon seem to me to be much the same as the other coloured KooL

On the Old Grey Bike they're a fair bit better in the dry and are a
HEAP better in the wet. On the Moulton I've now got predictable brakes
when it's wet. With the black ones, if it's wet, I get not-a-lot,
not-a-lot, not-a-lot,.... LOCKUP...:-(

> Stops I've tried, but they tend to squeal a bit if there is moisture

You ought to hear 'em on the Moulton if it's only damp... If it's
real wet or dry they're pretty quiet - just a squeak.

--
Humbug

 

[adam85]

Arent shimano's adjustable in this regard?
or is it my vague memory reminding me of a review of a special STI model with this ability??

Nope, but the model you are thinking of is the ST-R600:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/shifters.html

"At last, an Ultegra-level STI brake/shifter ("brifter") for riders with small
hands. These are a new variant of Ultegra with provision for
interchangeable wedges that provide a rest position closer to
the handlebar than the standard Ultegra brifters."

You can do the same with the SORA version as well.

Adam

 

[Resound]

Resound wrote:
> The one thing about my road bike (OCR3) that annoys me is the brakes.
> They're nowhere near as effective as the brakes on the relatively
> crappy MTB that I used to have and as near as I can tell that's pretty
> much par for the course. Ok, so canti brakes work better than
> sidepulls. So why do MTBs and hybrids and suchlike use the canti type
> brakes while the "high performance" road bikes use the less effective
> sidepulls? If STI brake/shifter levers aren't feasible, I'm surprised
> someone hasn't gone for non-STI levers with the appropriate amount of
> cable draw and indexed bar end shifters. So what's the obvious thing
> that I'm missing that means that all the bike manufacturers as well as
> Shimano and Campy persist with sidepulls?
>
>

What sort of brakes does it have?

I would've thought pretty much any dual pivot caliper would be fine
these days.

My MTB has Avid cable discs which probably have more stopping power than
my other bikes, which all use dual pivot calipers (Campy & SHimano). But
the dual pivots (and even a single pivot I sometimes use) are enough.

Is it a setup issue? The only other thing I can think of is maybe it
needs new cables? Or, it might be that the braking surface on the rims
is a bit worn?

--
Nick

It runs standard dual pivot Sora calipers and is on its second set of pads which are not the standard Shimanos as I was so unimpressed with them. I was hoping to get Koolstops or something similar but they only seemed to be available for MTBs. I've only had the bike since last November and I keep the brakes adjusted. They don't squeal and appear to work properly, just not well. It seems to be in marked contrast to any MTB with passably adjusted brakes I've ever ridden where you can simply grab a handful of front brake and have the rear tyre come straight off the deck. Can anyone here routinely stand their road bike on its nose?

 

[ritcho]

[snip]

Can anyone here routinely stand their road bike on its nose?

I can - in emergency stops, but if my hands are on the hoods, it requires a strong squeeze (much stronger than on a mtb). This is on Ultegra dual pivot with stock pads on CXP33 rims.

Ritch