Better deal alert: lynskey r350 $2,995

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Froze, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Oh man...do I remember my steel and leather braces. I hated them. I would start out after a surgery in a hip brace that had a wool-lined leather strap about 6" wide that would wrap around my thigh and two straps with leather belts would buckle that down tight. the bottom of the braces locked into slots in the clunky custom made Stride Rite brand orthopedic shoes I had to wear.

    I would progress to a knee brace as my leg got stronger and the surgery work healed up. Usually it was 9 weeks in a cast...first hip, then a couple of knee casts as these were changed every 3 or 4 weeks. Young lads destroy plaster! LOL! Then the hip brace and then the knee brace. I'm guessing here, but total time in casts and braces was probably around 4 months. Lots of wheel chair time and crutches were involved...

    When I got older the braces were not used. Straight home from surgery in a cast and crutches.

    All of that stl they could do by then. My growth was 95% done and the damage done by Polio was as corrected as it could be...mainly foot/ankle geometry. Thanks to the docs I was able to walk and kinda sorta run. Thanks to my mother and father I always had a decent Schwinn bicycle and man did I like riding. Riding minimized my disability...although I really don't like even calling it that. Like your dad, it was never an issue. Just something to find a way to work around it.

    That's why I'm much more...admiring?...of people that had the really serious setbacks in life. I was lucky and just got a taste of what a kick in the teeth feels like.

    LMAO! My wife does yoga and she keeps trying to get me go with her. I tell her that working out with boner might be a little embarrassing, but if she's OK with it...


    Indeed!
     
    kopride likes this.


  2. kopride

    kopride Active Member

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    OK, in which Kopride wades into the double butted ti debate.

    I don't know whether Lynskey double butts their ti tubing, but Seven did/does in some of their models. They actually include a nice description of their fabrication process. As an aside, unless its CP or 6AL-4 V, you are not going to see much rolled seam welded titanium. Most bikes are made of 3-2.5, and they are buying the straight tubing directly from the aerospace industry and finishing/butting their tubes in house. In virtually all cases, 3-2.5 is made from a solid ingot that is internally bored into a tube. Its not rolled shaped and welded. Then, the bike manufacture finishes that tubing and welds the frame. According to Seven, they externally butt the tubing and TIG weld it into a frame. Manufacturers like Litespeed did things like ovalize and shape the tubing, which Seven criticizes.
    http://www.cyclefit.co.uk/uploads/Seven_Titanium.pdf
    Litespeed did and does different things with their titanium tubing. According to a recent TN factory tour, some of their top tubing is shaped welded sheet titanium. Others are the same kind of tubes which are swaged, drawn, and butted, before they are hand welded by red-blooded 'mericans. This article is a pretty good description of the process. https://www.bikerumor.com/2016/02/1...-cutting-edge-titanium-bicycle-manufacturing/


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XIgz4jwyQY


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15dRZphaS8k


    Campy can diss Ti all he wants, but there is something good and holy--'merican --even about what is happening in the Lightspeed factory. From everything I've ever read, the 'mericans making the old Ti bikes were real craftsmen, proud of their work, and they were turning out products for riders at the highest level. Granted, the heyday of Ti was short, and there is no question that the age of carbon is upon us--but this type of metal hand fabricated bike does have an appeal to us ageing types with a romantic spirit. I have no clue what the Lynskeys are doing today, but I would be surprised if they suddenly forgot how to fabricate a Ti bike.

    Ride on, Froze. Just because Campy has abandoned good old quality 'merican workers and doesn't want to MAGA--instead investing in "Jina--doesn't mean we all have to. If Schwinn wanted to open up a Chicago factory and start putting out Stingrays and Varsitys made by 'mericans, I'd get in line for one. Campy probably spits on a good old fashioned 1911 and worships at the altar of Plastic-Fantastic-Gaston Glock.
     
    #62 kopride, Jan 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  3. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, externally butted has been around and used by several frame manufacturers. And all I've seen is single butted.

    Genuine, internal double butted, as Reynolds is claiming to make is a cat of another stripe in my book. And while it would not have to made on a mandrel, I believe that's the process the frame builder was claiming was used to make the DB tube sets.

    It 'could' be bored to a single or DB, but the surface finish and direction of the stress riser left on the tube wall??? No way in Hell I would want a tube made like that.

    CP Ti in a bike frame? I have not seen that alloy used.

    I remember the old Teledyne Titans from...what was it? 1973? And the English Speedwell's. The arabesque engraving might sell a bike or two to a wealthy geezer, but even Litespeed sells carbon frames these days.

    Steel lasted for a century. Aluminum for a decade. Ti for a few years. Carbon? Who knows?

    Don't tell froze this: "Mark Lynskey stayed on as CEO until 2006" Yeah, my Litespeed is a Lynskey. A 2006 model. I should take it to him and have him autograph it.

    Lynskey...Litespeed...one and the same anyway. Lynskey and Co. have not forgotten how to build a frame. They do a good job. But Ti is not the last word in material no mater who's hands have graced it. Ask the guy that broke three Lynskey's in rapid succession.

    The point is both are selling on nostalgia and not technology or any of the attributes that make a performance bicycle a performance bicycle. Lighter...stronger...stiffer...more aerodynamic. Those are the reasons carbon fiber left all other materials in its dust. For the same reasons Boeing and Lockheed and Northrup-Grumman and Cessna are ditching aluminum and Ti for carbon fiber.

    As far as good ol' 'muricans!' making an American product, there's always Calfee and Parlee and a dozen other carbon frame builders on our dirt that wealthy buyers flock to. Bring a fat checkbook!

    I'm the kind of guy that, I'm my old age, just wants a decent tool for the job that is competitive on the starting line. Showing up with a shiny piece of steel or Ti just isn't in the cards for guys...even if they could sit on that Masi and crush most of the field.

    I have a lawyer bud that buys nothing but high zoot steel. And when I say high zoot I mean 5-figure bikes. Custom made to measure English, Vanilla, Speedvagon, etc. The lightest, thinnest, most fragile steel tube sets, lugless fillet brazed beauties. And then I pick them up. And look over at my $2000 carbon bike and start planning on buying another one! I've wasted way too many frames to get attached to one or to think any material is going to give me all the advatages carbon does...until the next magic bullet comes along! Then...I'm going to jump in it. Opulence! I haz it!
     
  4. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Weird...

    [​IMG] Morten Knudsen says:
    September 27, 2016 at 4:26 pm


    no, no… Litespeed @ABG quality (and finish) is a fair bit better – ive seen lynskeys are the finish and craftmanship does not impress compared to my 2006 ABG build Merlin CR Works.

    There a lots of horrer stories about the lack of high quality in Lynsky’s Ti frames (inlc their OEM builds) + a ling list of design blunders. The Lynskeys are not pr. trade bicycle designers like ABG brands.

    No wonder why Tom Kellog turned to Seven and not Litespeed for his ti OEM work when ABG shut down their OEM TI buisness.


    And sadly, I've seen a broken Litespeed Archon or however it's spelled. Cracked BB-chainstay. Local guy got a freebie. No big deal.
    1. [​IMG] Allan says:
      February 19, 2016 at 9:02 pm
      Love seeing the well used insides of a workhorse bicycle manufacturing facility. Though not one of the cool-kids Indyfab shops, you can see all of the years of experience oozing from the machines. I still have my 2002 Classic, though it did have to be re-welded once! In fact, I just got back from a ride on it, still rides great! Nothing will ever surpass brushed Ti as the best looking rig. Thanks for the story.

    Ti breaks. Just like everything else.
     
  5. kopride

    kopride Active Member

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    I'm not wedded to any material. My cheapo Specialized AL CX bike worked just fine racing this fall--the only weak spot was my 50 year old legs. As I said, my next bike will be carbon; and it will be made in China with genuine Italian decals and paint--exactly as the 21st Century gods demand. Still, I think its an overstatement to call a new well made Ti bike noodlely obsolete junk that's prone to breakage. Certainly, you are paying more for older technology, but I see the appeal if you want something different from the endless parade of Treks, Specialized and the like; and its still a pretty durable material. And the extra grams on a Ti frame, or tiny bit of flex, are not a big problem for the typical weekend warrior. I haven't ridden enough carbon enough miles, but my Litespeed has a great ride, 11 years later--mine's a 2006 model as well. I have a buddy with an '03 Tuscany and he always is shocked at how much he likes it for a long ride over his brand new plastic fantastic. We've done lots of long charity rides on our noodlely turn of the century Titanium wonders.

    CP is not an alloy per se. It stands for commercially pure and it is wicked flexy--like mid 80s Vitus flexy. CP frames are no longer being made, but there were a lot of them made right before Merlin, Litespeed, Seven and the rest started working with 3-2.5. A lot of it was bought in Russia after the curtain crashed. I have a buddy with an old Ti Sampson, and I had another friend that rode an old CP Ti frame for many years. The finish is a bit dull and they do flex like a suspended Mt bike. They are basically junk.

    If you are going to race and do the weekly crits, I would stay away from Ti. But if you are going to do a nice long weekend ride while you chat with your buddies and race each other up and down your sweet stretches, you could do a lot worse than Ti.

    Sure Mark Lynskey left in 06 and later started his own company, but I imagine that the lawyers involved in the sale made sure that all that tooling, craftsman and designs stayed with the new owners of Litespeed. Lee Iacocca didn't turn Chrysler into Ford. These individual guys have their day and time. Once upon a time, everyone wanted a Serotta and Ben was a wizard. (My brother had one, and boy was it sweet--paint job alone was lustworthy) The stuff he made in later years under the same name was junk--the industry passed him buy. (Is anybody going to go out and buy a Klein?) Again, I'm not saying that the current Lynskey is a piece of junk; I'm just saying that our bikes are Litespeeds and what they share with the current Lynskey design or bike is unknown. It could be better, it could be worse. But he probably had to start from scratch and not infringe on Litespeed designs that he was already paid for when he sold his business. Magic doesn't often strike twice. Is that why he's having some QA problems, maybe. All bikes can and will break under the right conditions.

    Your point is well taken. Machines have function and nostalgia has little value unless it improves function. Carbon delivers that function. For most of us, our bike is a mix of form and function, objective and subjective qualities. In my humble opinion, Ti still deserves a place at certain tables for certain riders.
     
  6. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    I am. I used to be married to Ms. Steel. We divorced when she couldn't take off that excess weight. Then, I tied the knot with the more Svelte, exotic and glitzy Ms. Ti, but that crashed & burned.

    Yeah, she was flexible, but what walked us into divorce court was her fast aging looks and she started looking heavy when compared to the younger models. I traded her in for a hard belly. The beauty was only skin deep.

    I briefly entertained dating a slut named Ally Luminum while on the rebound, but everyone was talking about her crack so I steered clear.

    A gal came along and she promised to be a spinner, but Mag Kneesium also proved to be a flash in the pan. I felt like I would never find love again.

    Just as I was ready to give up on a long term relationship and thinking of going down dark alleys in search of cheap ferrous thrills, I found Ms. Right...Carla BonFiber! Curvaceous, fun and comfortable to ride, she is a fast living gal. Youthful and with spectacular beauty she looks sexy with or without her war paint. Our relationship has worked out well and I have to say that she was worth almost 40 years of waiting for! Most importantly, she has not only kept the weight off, she's actually lost weight over the last 10 years!



    LMAO! So true! Pay $5K and up for a new Pinarello Dogma10 only to find Fausto is now pronounce Feng Shui!

    My Wilier's have never spent an hour of their lives in Italy and the smell like General Tso's Chicken.


    I know. I'm an aerospace engineer. I machine CP. While unalloyed by nature, we call it an alloy. As in, "Hey Leroy! Go get me a 1/2" x 1" bar of that Titanium CP alloy!".


    Lynskey looks like he kept a lot of his employees from what I saw when I nosed around their website...which is as dated and lacking in information found on other manufacturers' websites as his frames. It is painfully obvious both Litespeed and Lynskey are trading in the retro genre. And at least Litespeed is doing carbon these days.


    Agreed. That lawyer friend of mine is making college tuition payment to Rob English, fully convinced all that beautiful carbon Campy Super Record group AND carbon ENVE wheels and ENVE carbon cockpit components actually 'fits' on a weirdly designed steel frameset. It just...doesn't. But I don't judge! Much...jeez...he's riding everything carbon EXCEPT the frame! What's up with that?


    NO! We laughed at them when they were new on the market. Recycled beer cans with derailleur hangers that snapped off. If I wanted a MASI 3V Volumetrica I would have bought a Masi 3V Volumetrica! At least I would have had style in an oversized fat tube bike.


    No clue, but busted Lynskey's sure seem easy to find.


    That's what I've been saying all along. I broke a steel Colnago in the 1970's. I broke a carbon Wilier 3 or 4 years ago. I sure as Hell would have torn that Litespeed Flexible Flyer apart, given another year or three on it.

    There is no magic bullet and thus why I'm into taking advantage of cheap cheap cheap carbon. Go fast today...buy another one tomorrow. Odds are the newer one will be lighter, stiffer, better looking and less money. That's why I originally posted the Ribble deal and the other carbon deals...they were...'deals'. Paying $3K for an Ultegra level bike made from anything up and including Peter Sagan's braided hair is not only NOT a deal...it's just stupid in 2017.

    But, to each their own I guess. Being different for the sake of being different never appealed to me. Maybe because I already am? Heheh! Hell, Froze can't figure out why I have kept frames I've totalled out for 30 years.


    I could haul out any of a dozen of my old machines and glue on a NOS pair of Clement Seta tires and ride L'Eroica tomorrow.

    The question is 'Why?'.

    Those rides are chock full of fat geezers and steel frame builders like Tom Ritchey huffy up hills in all their wool splendor. Living in the past. the so called 'Golden Age' of cycling...yeah...well, whatever. Buying and selling obsolete stuff like some sad flea market crowd. Well, good for them. I see no sense in riding a 7-speed Regina freewheel and hauling 24 pounds over hill and dale, myself, but no harm / no foul if they want to do that and get a charge out of it. If I want that kind of idiocy in my life I guess I could turn a screw and block 4 gears on my cassette and stuff a brick in my middle jersey pocket...my middle WOOL jersey pocket, that is. LOL! No. Thank. You!

    Frankly, my next ride is my 'Golden Age' of cycling.

    Now, before anyone gets Thoroughly Modern CampyBob wrong...I am not on the bleeding edge of technology by any means! Not even close. I do not yet ride a 600 Gram frame equipped with the latest telepathically actuated, Bluetooth communicating microprocessor-controlled shifting gizmos. Neither do I yet roll on a sub-Kg pair of wheels and there is not yet a ceramic bearing anywhere on any of my bikes. Hell. my seat stays aren't even the latest aero coupled versions.

    But, in the immortal words of Wayne, "It shall be mine! Oh yes, it shall be mine!".
     
    #66 CAMPYBOB, Jan 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  7. kopride

    kopride Active Member

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    Campy. Engineers should not indulge in creative writing, but I'll give you a solid B for effort. I already hear the constant barrage of carbon love from 2 of my riding buddies. When I get those lovely creaks from where Al components meet Ti frame, I hear even more of these comments from my loyal companions. Then I stomp them on my old metal frame, which only enhances the joy.

    You're preaching to the choir. It's on the list. A man has needs and a man has wants. Carbon roadie is solidly in the latter. A 69 Vette doesn't remotely compare to a new one, but the old one is still cool and damn fun to drive. Even after I get the carbon Jina wonder bike, the Litespeed and Masi will see road time. They are purdy. I am cool sitting proudly in their saddles looking contemptuously at my carbon riding companions. Bike lust is not always logical.
     
  8. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    I can help!

    I done graduated from the Campy UltraTorque Click/Creak School of Silence! My toolbox is well stocked with lubricants, carbon assembly paste, a half-dozen types of Loctite Thread Lockers and Bearing Retaining Compounds, Teflon Tape and an assortment of shims in brass, bronze, aluminum, stainless steel and an assortment of polymers! I even machine my own contoured shims to fill Campy external bearing cups!

    If you promise not to tell...carbon is the worst guitar sound box amplifier of unwanted sounds of any of the common frame materials. If your (insert favorite component noise here) squeak, chirp, click, tick, clunk, knock, thump, ting, tang, walla walla bing bang coming from (insert favorite noisy component here) your pedal, BB, handlbars, stem, brake lever clamps, spokes, crankset, cables slapping, seatpost, seat, quick releases, derailleurs, chain or arthritic joints are driving you crazoid...I can track it down and cure it. And have!

    Honestly, carbon frames really do act like a microphone and amplifier.


    I have an oldie. My neighbor has a C5. His can crush mine in every category from ride to comfort to handling to HP to braking to amenities. Old men with bad backs want out of mine pretty quick.


    LOL! I got a retro buddy. He does the same! If he's on his half aluminum/half carbon Pinarello I will harass him good!
     
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