Better Frame or Better Components

[jitteringjr]

Thanks for all the help. Funny thing is after doing some test rides on steel and carbon bikes, I completely eliminated aluminum bikes all together. My new opinion is, "if you have the money for carbon or titanium, spring it. If not, then go with steel." Especially with the carbon seat stays adding to the price of aluminum frames, you can save the money on a good steel frame and get much better wheels to help make up the weight difference.

I still took the advice of the larger proportion and went with a better frame. I bought a Bianchi Reparto Corse Carbon frame and put a cheaper group on it. (Centaur vice Chorus)

It should be built in about a week.

Here is a link:
http://www.bianchiusa.com/xl_carbon_chorus.html

 

[mitosis]

This is basically just another, "which bike should I buy," thread is disguise, but please hear me out.

I am looking to spend about $2000 on a new bike and I have come up with two possibilities: The 05 Felt F55 and the Orbea Mitis with Ultegra. Here are the links:

http://www.feltracing.com/2005_bikes/2005_f55.html

http://www.orbea-usa.com/fly.aspx?menuid=4&layout=viewproduct&taxid=231&pid=75

If I buy the Orbea, I am getting a nicer frame from Spain with a full carbon rear triangle. The Felt frame has only carbon seat stays and the fork is one of those "wrap the aluminum steerer with carbon fiber" forks, whereas the Orbea is full carbon.

On the other hand, if I buy the Felt, I get Dura Ace components ( I would upgrade the questionable Tektro brakes with Dura Ace which evens the price BTW) with a compact carbon FSA crank compared to the Ultegra of the Orbea.

Also, with the Orbea, I can choose custom wheels and I can get Dura Ace hubs and Mavic open pro rims and shave a 100 grams or so. With the Felt, I get sharp Velomax wheels with high "bling" factor at the expense of additional weight.

I know I could always upgrade the components, but for argument sake, lets say that would never happen, because I most likely would not do so. So with that in mind, what is more important in this case, having a better frame, or better components? Which bike would you choose?

I am interested in hearing people's opinions on this.

Thanks

Better frame. You can feel the difference when you pedal with a stiff frame - feels like you are getting power to the ground rather than flexing the frame.

Any half decent groupset will give smooth gear changes when adjusted properly. I've got an old steel bike with 7 speed 105 that still performs well and rarely needs adjustment although my 2 year old dura ace feels smoother and looks better.

The better frame will help you go faster and climb better. The better group set in all practicality will only look better.

 

[dfvcad]

I recently went through this same process about a month ago. I precently have an Orbea Liege (alum 6000 series). Off the bat, I say go with a better frame and then components. I was between the Orbea Mitis M2 w D/A for $2500 and Orbea Liege Columbus Lobular w Ultegra for the same price and I chose the Liege due to the frame. The difference in price between the Mitis ($800.00) and the Lobular (1300.00) frames is about double due to the quality of the carbon and aluminum materials. Felt is Taiwaneese(mass produce) and Orbea is Spaniard (hand made, even the logos are hand painted and not stickers). The Mitis is a good bike frame but the Lobular frame is better and with better carbon fiber parts and lighter. Aluminum is aluminum when compared within the same series. Geometry has alot to do with how a bike respondes, accelerates and having a complete carbon rear stays makes a hell of a difference to the road vibrations when you compare it to a full aluminum bike as my Cannondale.

 

[boudreaux]

Aluminum is aluminum when compared within the same series.

So,you are saying all 7005 frames are the same and there is no difference between 6061 frames?....LOL...

 

[dfvcad]

So,you are saying all 7005 frames are the same and there is no difference between 6061 frames?....LOL...

If you read it correctly, what I stated was that aluminum within the same series is the same aluminum. So, if you look at your statement: a 7005 AL series frame compared to a 6061 Al series frame is not the same series and its a misquote on your behalf. When Al is certified under a specific series it has to have certain material characteristics and amount of alloy to be called a certain series.

By the way a 6061 Al frame is much lighter and thinner than a 7005 series. The 6000 series is mostly used on the higher end frame sets

 

[CycleFreakLS]

what is more important in this case, having a better frame, or better components?

Hello, I normally post over in BikeForums.net. This has been discussed about a bajillion times over ... but ... where you should spend your pennies on a bike are:

[a] frame / fork
wheelset
[c] components

in that order. Sacrifice your components (go down to Ultegra or even 105 if you have to) in order to get the BEST frame / fork and then wheelset that you afford.

Best.

 

[andrello]

Everybody says better frame before better components, but when is your frame not good enough? E.g., how would you measure the stiffness of your b.b.?

 

[boudreaux]

If you read it correctly, what I stated was that aluminum within the same series is the same aluminum. So, if you look at your statement: a 7005 AL series frame compared to a 6061 Al series frame is not the same series and its a misquote on your behalf. When Al is certified under a specific series it has to have certain material characteristics and amount of alloy to be called a certain series.

By the way a 6061 Al frame is much lighter and thinner than a 7005 series. The 6000 series is mostly used on the higher end frame sets

I read it correctly,and all 7005 frames are not the same, even tho they use the same alloy.Tubesets differ!! As all 6061 frames are not the same. FWIW, a generalization that a 6061 frame is much lighter that 7005 iss also just BS as is the one about 6000 and higher end.

 

[dfvcad]

I read it correctly,and all 7005 frames are not the same, even tho they use the same alloy.Tubesets differ!! As all 6061 frames are not the same. FWIW, a generalization that a 6061 frame is much lighter that 7005 iss also just BS as is the one about 6000 and higher end.

I am not sure what is your problem, but you may need to learn how to read, when I talk about 6000 series that is generic for all the variations of Al, which include 6061 aluminum and by the way, yes the 6061 aluminum is commonly know to be lighter due to thinner wall tubeset. A 7000 series aluminum is cheaper aluminum normally its heavier, BTW 7000 series includes the 7005 Al grade. Also for your information when I stated aluminum is aluminum I am talking about tubsets and not frame sets.

 

[boudreaux]

I am not sure what is your problem, but you may need to learn how to read, when I talk about 6000 series that is generic for all the variations of Al, which include 6061 aluminum and by the way, yes the 6061 aluminum is commonly know to be lighter due to thinner wall tubeset. A 7000 series aluminum is cheaper aluminum normally its heavier, BTW 7000 series includes the 7005 Al grade. Also for your information when I stated aluminum is aluminum I am talking about tubsets and not frame sets.

Your problem bud, not mine.I know how to read, and your "aluminum is aluminum" even within the same series is just BS! Sure 7005 is 7005 and 6061 is 6061 as far as alloy goes and that's as far as it goes.All 7005 tubesets aren't the same nor are all 7005 frames. Same for 6061 frames. And you are generalizing too much again.

 

[trbloomer]

As I said few times before, for example, alu 7005 is alu 7005! You can feel the difference if sizes or geometry are different and not if one is made in Italy and other in Taiwan! Just my opinion, may be I`m wrong.

You know the really funny thing about this is, well have you ever bought an Italian car?

Yes I know its not an exact thing but in general Italians are known for excellent design not so much for excellent manufacturing quality. (Not slamming Italians, I wont buy a chevy either)

 

[dfvcad]

Your problem bud, not mine.I know how to read, and your "aluminum is aluminum" even within the same series is just BS! Sure 7005 is 7005 and 6061 is 6061 as far as alloy goes and that's as far as it goes.All 7005 tubesets aren't the same nor are all 7005 frames. Same for 6061 frames. And you are generalizing too much again.

My little young grasshopper you are a fool to believe that an Al tubeset of one serie compare to the same series such as a 6000 are different. What makes it different is the shaping of the tube and geometry of the bike. Read up on Columbus or Reynolds web site and learn.

 

[boudreaux]

My little young grasshopper you are a fool to believe that an Al tubeset of one serie compare to the same series such as a 6000 are different. What makes it different is the shaping of the tube and geometry of the bike. Read up on Columbus or Reynolds web site and learn.

Damm, do you ever need to work on your comprehension and verbal skills.

 

[dfvcad]

Damm, do you ever need to work on your comprehension and verbal skills.

I ask for forgiveness master of the english language.

 

[boudreaux]

My little young grasshopper you are a fool to believe that an Al tubeset of one serie compare to the same series such as a 6000 are different.

What does this drivel mean? I rest my case.

 

[spokehead]

Get the better frame, you can add better components later on...

 

[phillip-8727]

i think there is a limit to the debate of putting your money into a better frame.
i am purchasing a new roadbike and have limited it down to two options

1)giant TCR 1(aluminium), 10spd ultegra, carbon seatpost and easton bars and stem. i would sell the shimano 550's that the bike comes with use my trusty mavic cosmic elites for training. i would then purchase a 2nd hand set of velomax circuit comps (2000km old) of a person i know who is selling a set, and use these for racing. id have enough money left to buy a new set of ultegra pedals and cleats

2)cannondale caad7, 9spd ultegra, cannondale seatpost and stem, ritchey bars, the only way i would afford this is to sell my mavics and use only one wheelset which would be the 2nd hand circuit comps. once i get my pedals it would cost about equal or more than the giant. or i can just buy the bike with no wheelset and use my mavic cosmic elites.

i am leaning towards the giant becasue i dont really have the spare money to change components throughout the year such as the seatpost, bars, stem.. and i would rather have two wheelset, one for training and one for racing.
some may disagree but i will probably end up gettting the giant
any thoughts?

 

[CycleFreakLS]

i think there is a limit to the debate of putting your money into a better frame.

Uh, no.

You should always put your money into frame/fork FIRST. Then wheelset, then components. But within reason. You need to get a decent wheelset. You need decent components. So, I'd start with 105 as your baseline components. Then, look at everything from Mavic Open Pros all the way to Mavic Ksyriums, Velomax Ascents (Orions), American Classic, Shimano, etc. (the higher end). Start with the Open Pros and look for the best frame/fork that FITS you with your remaining $$$. Then decide, that frame/fork with the Open Pros or a slightly lesser frame/fork with better wheels, but not to the extent that your sticking (e.g.) Ksyrium SSLs on some cheap [email protected])(*& frame.

The frame/fork and wheelset are what will "make" the ride, not the components. E.g., BikeA with DA10 or BikeB with 105 but a much better frame/fork ... BikeB will get you to the "finish line" much faster, comfortable, etc. than BikeA ever will.

Best.

 

[boudreaux]

i think there is a limit to the debate of putting your money into a better frame.
i am purchasing a new roadbike and have limited it down to two options

1)giant TCR 1(aluminium), 10spd ultegra, carbon seatpost and easton bars and stem. i would sell the shimano 550's that the bike comes with use my trusty mavic cosmic elites for training. i would then purchase a 2nd hand set of velomax circuit comps (2000km old) of a person i know who is selling a set, and use these for racing. id have enough money left to buy a new set of ultegra pedals and cleats

2)cannondale caad7, 9spd ultegra, cannondale seatpost and stem, ritchey bars, the only way i would afford this is to sell my mavics and use only one wheelset which would be the 2nd hand circuit comps. once i get my pedals it would cost about equal or more than the giant. or i can just buy the bike with no wheelset and use my mavic cosmic elites.

i am leaning towards the giant becasue i dont really have the spare money to change components throughout the year such as the seatpost, bars, stem.. and i would rather have two wheelset, one for training and one for racing.
some may disagree but i will probably end up gettting the giant
any thoughts?

And who says the Cdale is the better frame? Above a certain point it's more about fit and personal prefrence, saving a few grams or bling and poseur points.. Just avoid the bottom of the barrel and lower end.

 

[phillip-8727]

what i meant by -"i think there is a limit to the debate of putting your money into a better frame"-is that you dont want to get tiagra, just to get a great frame. you can downgrade but you gota have limits.
just like CycleFreakLS said with having 105 as a baseline group and open pros as a baseline wheelset.