Between Veloce and Centaur

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Wort, Feb 12, 2004.

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  1. Wort

    Wort Guest

    I'm struggling with a decision. I can afford a Veloce Gruppo (10 speed) and a Sirocco wheelset or a
    Centaur Gruppo with a factory built (Marinoni) wheelset.

    Is the Centaur componet set good enough that I should give up the wheel set?
     
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  2. Nick Payne

    Nick Payne Guest

    I'd give up the heavyweight Sirocco wheels, which offer no advantage, and get the better components.

    Nick

    "Wort" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'm struggling with a decision. I can afford a Veloce Gruppo (10 speed) and a Sirocco wheelset or
    > a Centaur Gruppo with a factory built (Marinoni) wheelset.
    >
    > Is the Centaur componet set good enough that I should give up the wheel set?
     
  3. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:20:05 +1100, "Nick Payne"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I'd give up the heavyweight Sirocco wheels, which offer no advantage, and get the better
    >components.

    I think that the Centaur and Veloce are the same. The Centaur has a hole/loop in the shift paddle.
     
  4. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Paul Kopit wrote:

    >> I'd give up the heavyweight Sirocco wheels, which offer no advantage, and get the better
    >> components.
    >
    > I think that the Centaur and Veloce are the same. The Centaur has a hole/loop in the shift paddle.

    There are differences with the rest of the stuff. Centaur chainrings are better; Centaur
    derailleurs, cassette & BB are lighter.

    ~PB
     
  5. Jl

    Jl Guest

    Get the Centaur, and build your own cheaper wheels with the Centaur hubs.

    -jl

    "Wort" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I'm struggling with a decision. I can afford a Veloce Gruppo (10 speed) and a Sirocco wheelset or
    > a Centaur Gruppo with a factory built (Marinoni) wheelset.
    >
    > Is the Centaur componet set good enough that I should give up the wheel set?
     
  6. Wort <[email protected]> writes:

    >I'm struggling with a decision. I can afford a Veloce Gruppo (10 speed) and a Sirocco wheelset or a
    >Centaur Gruppo with a factory built (Marinoni) wheelset.

    >Is the Centaur componet set good enough that I should give up the wheel set?

    I think that there is a major difference between Veloce and Centaur. Veloce is part of the low-end
    componentry line, and Centaur is part of the high end stuff, which means that the more durable parts
    (Chorus and Record) should interface and provide spares for your Centaur stuff.

    You can easily upgrade the wheels in 2 years when you get more money, but it will be difficult and
    much more expensive to upgrade all the parts.

    If you really want to save money forget about the exotic wheels and get some REAL MAN wheels which
    means normal centaur hubs and open pro rims, and maybe a few exotic spokes. With the money you save,
    because spares are cheap and plentiful, you'll be upgrading to a full record 2006 gruppo in no
    time... :) :)

    - Don Gillies San Diego, CA
     
  7. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Donald Gillies wrote:
    > I think that there is a major difference between Veloce and Centaur. Veloce is part of the low-end
    > componentry line, and Centaur is part of the high end stuff,

    No it isn't.

    > which means that the more durable parts (Chorus and Record) should interface and provide spares
    > for your Centaur stuff.

    It doesn't work like that. There is no distinct point where the "low end" ends and the "high end"
    starts and Centaur straddles both. The crank arms are like Veloce's (and don't fit Chorus BB) but
    the chainrings are in the Chorus class. Brakes are very similar to Veloce but hubs are virtually the
    same as Chorus's. Both Centaur and Veloce derailleurs and Ergos are compatible with Chorus and
    Record stuff, and even some Record small parts fit Veloce. Remember that Veloce now has a 10-speed
    option as well.

    See the Spare Parts section on campagnolo.com for full details.

    ~PB
     
  8. Smmb

    Smmb Guest

    "Donald Gillies" <[email protected]> a √©crit dans le message de :
    news:[email protected]...

    > I think that there is a major difference between Veloce and Centaur. Veloce is part of the low-end
    > componentry line, and Centaur is part of the high end stuff, which means that the more durable
    > parts (Chorus and Record) should interface and provide spares for your Centaur stuff.

    I can't agree with the idea that Veloce is "low-end", since it (version
    2003) is identical to, even better than, previous (1998) Chorus. I prefer the new shift lever
    and Ergo body. If the Chorus was high-end in a few years ago, it's hard to call Veloce low-
    end today.

    > You can easily upgrade the wheels in 2 years when you get more money, but it will be difficult and
    > much more expensive to upgrade all the parts.

    Not quite true, as we know the longevity of Campa is more than just a couple of years. It's the lust
    for new toys that will drive "upgrades". It was not a great deal of engineering to change the Veloce
    to 10-speed, either. Thankfully, they didn't change the hub splines again, as they did from 8-speed.
    But even that can be upgraded to 9/10 S.

    > If you really want to save money forget about the exotic wheels and get some REAL MAN wheels which
    > means normal centaur hubs and open pro rims, and maybe a few exotic spokes.

    Why Campy has gone to pre-built wheels has more to do with marketing than function. Their new Vento
    may not be a bad wheel set, but it lets them out of producing plain rims, sold at lower margins.
    --
    Bonne route,

    Sandy Paris FR
     
  9. none-<< I'm struggling with a decision. I can afford a Veloce Gruppo (10 speed) and a Sirocco
    wheelset or a Centaur Gruppo with a factory built (Marinoni) wheelset.

    Is the Centaur componet set good enough that I should give up the wheel set? >><BR><BR>

    Both groupsets for 2004 are very similar. The biggest advantage of Centaur is the hubset, which
    sounds like is not a player in your decision.

    Chainrings, BB, ders, etc are almost a wash for both.

    Can ya get the Veloce groupset with a Centaur hubset? My only recommendation.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  10. Bfd

    Bfd Guest

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > none-<< I'm struggling with a decision. I can afford a Veloce Gruppo (10 speed) and a Sirocco
    > wheelset or a Centaur Gruppo with a factory built (Marinoni) wheelset.
    >
    > Is the Centaur componet set good enough that I should give up the wheel set? >><BR><BR>
    >
    > Both groupsets for 2004 are very similar. The biggest advantage of Centaur
    is
    > the hubset, which sounds like is not a player in your decision.
    >
    > Chainrings, BB, ders, etc are almost a wash for both.
    >
    > Can ya get the Veloce groupset with a Centaur hubset? My only
    recommendation.
    >
    Agree, the Centaur/Daytona/Athena hubset is a fantastic bargain as you basically get Record hub
    innards (cones, races, bearings) for not much more than veloce price. In fact, the Centaur hub at
    something like 260-270g (w/o skewers) which is only what 10 or 20g more than Record, a great deal.
     
  11. "Pete Biggs" <ptangerine{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> writes:

    >Donald Gillies wrote:
    >> I think that there is a major difference between Veloce and Centaur. Veloce is part of the low-
    >> end componentry line, and Centaur is part of the high end stuff,

    >No it isn't.

    >> which means that the more durable parts (Chorus and Record) should interface and provide spares
    >> for your Centaur stuff.

    >It doesn't work like that. There is no distinct point where the "low end" ends and the "high end"
    >starts and Centaur straddles both.

    Ok, I am admittedly not an expert in this, but I thought that with today's campy parts the model
    lines shift every 3 years or so.

    Thus, Record becomes Chorus Chorus becomes Centaur Centaur becomes Veloce Veloce becomes Mirage
    Mirage becomes an orphan ( meaning factory spares start getting harder to find).

    Therefore, if you pay the extra $$$ for Centaur, chances are very good that your parts will have
    spares available for roughly 3 extra years. This is a good thing, and I think that this is part of
    the value and cost of buying the higher-end componentry - a longer support period.

    I agree with others here that the differences between all levels of the campy grouppos are smaller
    now than at anytime in history, as far as I am aware.

    - Don Gillies San Diego, CA
     
  12. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Donald Gillies wrote:

    > Ok, I am admittedly not an expert in this, but I thought that with today's campy parts the model
    > lines shift every 3 years or so.
    >
    > Thus, Record becomes Chorus Chorus becomes Centaur Centaur becomes Veloce Veloce becomes Mirage
    > Mirage becomes an orphan ( meaning factory spares start getting harder to find).
    >
    > Therefore, if you pay the extra $$$ for Centaur, chances are very good that your parts will have
    > spares available for roughly 3 extra years.

    That assumes Veloce requires different spares.......

    > This is a good thing, and I think that this is part of the value and cost of buying the higher-end
    > componentry - a longer support period.

    That's a fair generalisation but it doesn't apply in this particular case. However, I agree that it
    makes sense to get the highest group comfortably affordable (or a careful mixture) for the sake of
    getting best function or weight possible if nothing else.

    > I agree with others here that the differences between all levels of the campy grouppos are smaller
    > now than at anytime in history, as far as I am aware.

    Indeed the differences are so small that, except for hubs, Centaur spare parts also fit Veloce
    perfectly (in fact some are the exact same parts) - so Centaur should not be favoured purely for
    this reason.

    I reckon there are only two major differences within the whole of the current Campagnolo componentry
    that should affect the "future-proofing" decision: 9-speed versus 10-speed, and new-style hubs
    versus old/cartridge type. The rest is not an issue.

    Spare parts info: www.campagnolo.com/techinfo.php?did=c

    ~PB
     
  13. "Pete Biggs" <ptangerine{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> writes:

    >Donald Gillies wrote:

    >> Ok, I am admittedly not an expert in this, but I thought that with today's campy parts the model
    >> lines shift every 3 years or so.
    >>
    >> Thus, Record becomes Chorus Chorus becomes Centaur Centaur becomes Veloce Veloce becomes Mirage
    >> Mirage becomes an orphan ( meaning factory spares start getting harder to find).
    >>
    >> Therefore, if you pay the extra $$$ for Centaur, chances are very good that your parts will have
    >> spares available for roughly 3 extra years.

    >That assumes Veloce requires different spares.......

    If campy is doing things right, parts that wear excessively will change less frequently and remain
    in supply longer than parts that don't wear or break easily.

    And clearly, e.g. all derailleurs share some parts, such as pulley wheel bolts, or perhaps upper
    pivot bolts (although record now uses titanium), or springs and cable clamps.

    The low end parts contain more metal to encourage consumers to impose a weight tax. This might
    also enable easier and lower cost manufacturing. The low-end parts are often made with, e.g.
    inferior or no bushings, and this just won't wear as long, and so they wear out quicker and then
    there are no spares.

    IMHO, if you're going to buy a grouppo with no spares, you might as well go whole hog and get
    ShimaNO. I have an ultegra bike and it has served its purpose, giving me my first experiences with
    brifters. However, Unlike my Campagnolo bikes, I feel no romantic attraction to this bike - I love
    my Ultegra bike just as much as any foot stool that I have ever owned.

    - Don Gillies San Diego, CA
     
  14. Nick Payne

    Nick Payne Guest

    You think wrong. Have a look at the parts numbers in the online Campagnolo spares catalogue. Centaur
    shares parts with Chrous and Record. Veloce does not.

    Nick

    "Paul Kopit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > I think that the Centaur and Veloce are the same. The Centaur has a hole/loop in the shift paddle.
     
  15. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Donald Gillies wrote:
    > If campy is doing things right, parts that wear excessively will change less frequently and remain
    > in supply longer than parts that don't wear or break easily.
    >
    > The low end parts contain more metal to encourage consumers to impose a weight tax. This might
    > also enable easier and lower cost manufacturing.

    That doesn't make it less durable or incompatible with higher parts.

    > The low-end parts are often made with, e.g. inferior or no bushings, and this just won't wear as
    > long, and so they wear out quicker and then there are no spares.

    Once again your generalisations do not apply in this case. Centaur has the same bushings and doesn't
    have bearings where Veloce has bushings or vice versa. Apart from the hubs & chainrings (arguably),
    Centaur is not more durable than Veloce. It is more expensive because some components are lighter
    (eg. sprockets with aluminium carriers and derailleurs with aluminium cage back plates) and some
    have tiny functional and cosmetic enhancements like nicer adjusters and pads on the brakes or holes
    in the Ergo downshift levers. Apart from the hubs again, the differences really are as small as
    that. Chorus is the group with ball bearings in Ergos and brakes - but you pay a high price for it.
    This thread is specifically about Veloce v Centaur.

    > IMHO, if you're going to buy a grouppo with no spares, you might as well go whole hog and get
    > ShimaNO.

    Veloce does have spares and will have even if Veloce disappears.

    ~PB
     
  16. Wort

    Wort Guest

    On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 16:47:18 GMT, "bfd" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >

    Well what I've done based on the discussion in this thread is order a Veloce 10 speed gruppo and
    upgrade the hubs alone to Centaur. 32 hole.

    Indeed the parts list shows the Centaur hub share much with Record.

    I've also ordered Ambrosio Excellence Rims and will have the wheels built up at the Marinoni site at
    LaChine Quebec.

    Hope this works.

    Thanks to those that took a moment to give their opinions and supporting facts
     
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