BEWARE Another Bike related ebay scam

[Matthew]

"Chad G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC05F8AE.A26%[email protected]...
> Just want to let everyone know that there is a 57cm Ti Lemond for sale on ebay. This is a bike
> that I sold last week. The current seller posted a very similar auction listing. He also used all
> the pictures that I took
of
> the bike. In his listing he stated that the bike is being sold through Freewheel Cycle...the shop
> I work at. Beware of people like this, especially this time of year. I figured I would bring it to
> everyones attention because there are 15bids on it already.
>
> The auction # is 3645460915
>
> I hope this helps, Chad
>
And we know you're not the scam artist because ...?

 

[Matthew]

"Chad G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC05F8AE.A26%[email protected]...
> Just want to let everyone know that there is a 57cm Ti Lemond for sale on ebay. This is a bike
> that I sold last week. The current seller posted a very similar auction listing. He also used all
> the pictures that I took
of
> the bike. In his listing he stated that the bike is being sold through Freewheel Cycle...the shop
> I work at. Beware of people like this, especially this time of year. I figured I would bring it to
> everyones attention because there are 15bids on it already.
>
> The auction # is 3645460915
>
> I hope this helps, Chad
>
And either way I don't think Lemond will be happy about its dealers selling via mail order.

 

[Someone]

> >
> >Sold, for $14100. Looks a *little* high to me. What did yours sell for?
>
> I suspect that the bid was intentionally made that high by a fraud blocker.

I've seen a number of auctions like this lately, for example a Trek 5900 going for $15000 several
times, and I have never understood what is going on. It never occurred to me that someone would be
trying to block fraud by raising the price to an absurd level. Do you get in trouble if you place a
high bid and win and then don't buy the item? My only guess before was that this was some kind of
bizarre money laundering operation.

 

[David Damerell]

Matthew <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Chad G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>Just want to let everyone know that there is a 57cm Ti Lemond for sale on ebay. This is a bike
>>that I sold last week. The current seller posted a very similar auction listing. He also used all
>>the pictures that I took
>And we know you're not the scam artist because ...?

How would it make sense for him to run a scam and then post alerting potential buyers to the fact
that it's a scam?
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> flcl?

 

[Chad G]

I am the original poster regarding this scam. As soon as I saw the auction I notified ebay, I
notified the respective newgroups, and I emailed the seller. He promptly replied saying that he has
a similar bike to sell. Knowing how automated ebay services are I took it upon myself to put a max
bid of $17000 on the bike. From how the auction played out, I assume a few other people decided to
have some fun with it. When it ended I was immediately sent a pretty funny email. Instead of paying
$14100, he wanted me to suck certain parts of him and he wanted to do dirty things to my wife. Happy
holidays everyone, Chad

On 12/18/03 4:00 AM, in article [email protected], "someone"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>>
>>> Sold, for $14100. Looks a *little* high to me. What did yours sell for?
>>
>> I suspect that the bid was intentionally made that high by a fraud blocker.
>
> I've seen a number of auctions like this lately, for example a Trek 5900 going for $15000 several
> times, and I have never understood what is going on. It never occurred to me that someone would be
> trying to block fraud by raising the price to an absurd level. Do you get in trouble if you place
> a high bid and win and then don't buy the item? My only guess before was that this was some kind
> of bizarre money laundering operation.

 

[Chris Phillipo]

In article <OEF*[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Matthew <[email protected]> wrote:
> >"Chad G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>Just want to let everyone know that there is a 57cm Ti Lemond for sale on ebay. This is a bike
> >>that I sold last week. The current seller posted a very similar auction listing. He also used
> >>all the pictures that I took
> >And we know you're not the scam artist because ...?
>
> How would it make sense for him to run a scam and then post alerting potential buyers to the fact
> that it's a scam?
>

That wouldn't make sense, what would make sense is someone trying to screw up a ligitimate auction
because they hate the guy.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[Richard Adams]

onefred wrote:
>>$14,100.00. It makes no sense at all.
>
>
> Who's gonna pay those closing fees? Ouch.
>
> LOL!
>
> Dave
>
>
>

Probably set up with a stolen CC, how can you assume otherwise?

 

[Chris Phillipo]

> below. It all looked pretty normal until the post appeared on rbr. Then, very quickly, the bidding
> went over the top. The guy who bid 1,425 will probably never learn the favour someone did them.
>
> BTW, another red flag: Payment by bank transfer ONLY. caveat emptor, baby!
>
> $14,100.00 12-17 12:11:01 $14,000.00 12-17 16:29:58 $10,000.00 12-17 14:32:16 $6,969.00 12-17
> 12:08:25 $5,000.00 12-17 08:47:50

Not what would be sweet is if the seller used his real credit card to pay the final fees.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[Edward Dike]

"Chad G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC05F8AE.A26%[email protected]...
| Just want to let everyone know that there is a 57cm Ti Lemond for sale on ebay. This is a bike
| that I sold last week. The current seller posted a very similar auction listing. He also used all
| the pictures that I took
of
| the bike. In his listing he stated that the bike is being sold through Freewheel Cycle...the shop
| I work at. Beware of people like this, especially this time of year. I figured I would bring it to
| everyones attention because there are 15bids on it already.
|
| The auction # is 3645460915
|
| I hope this helps, Chad

Where did you transact the sale for the bike you ".... sold last week..." eBay?... What's the
auction #?

ED3

 

[Eric Struckhoff]

ED3 inquired thusly:

> Where did you transact the sale for the bike you ".... sold last week..." eBay?... What's the
> auction #?
>

Try #3640806719.

 

[Tim McNamara]

Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> writes:

> In article <OEF*[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>> Matthew <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >"Chad G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >
>> >>Just want to let everyone know that there is a 57cm Ti Lemond for sale on ebay. This is a bike
>> >>that I sold last week. The current seller posted a very similar auction listing. He also used
>> >>all the pictures that I took
>> >
>> >And we know you're not the scam artist because ...?
>>
>> How would it make sense for him to run a scam and then post alerting potential buyers to the fact
>> that it's a scam?
>>
> That wouldn't make sense, what would make sense is someone trying to screw up a ligitimate auction
> because they hate the guy.\

Well, then we're into some kind of Laingian knot that cannot be resolved. Look at the auction and
decide for yourself. IMHO whoever posted this auction is doing it for the amusement of him/herself
and possibly some buddies. Some people are easily amused.

 

[Werehatrack]

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:47:50 -0400, Chris Phillipo
<[email protected]> may have said:

>In article <OEF*[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>> Matthew <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >"Chad G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >>Just want to let everyone know that there is a 57cm Ti Lemond for sale on ebay. This is a bike
>> >>that I sold last week. The current seller posted a very similar auction listing. He also used
>> >>all the pictures that I took
>> >And we know you're not the scam artist because ...?
>>
>> How would it make sense for him to run a scam and then post alerting potential buyers to the fact
>> that it's a scam?
>>
>
>That wouldn't make sense, what would make sense is someone trying to screw up a ligitimate auction
>because they hate the guy.

A legit auction wouldn't have stolen someone else's auction photos. (The use of promotional photos
from a manufacturer's website is marginally less suspicious in the case of a packaged, unopened
item, but it's still not entirely without its problematic components.)

A legit auction wouldn't have stated that it was connected to a bike shop that it was not
involved with.

A private auction when selling goods of a non-embarrassing or nonsensitive nature is a warning flag
that fraud is possible.

A private auction for a costly item with all of the above characteristics is pretty much guaranteed
to be fraudulent in fact, and this particular listing is known to be fraudulent in the first two
instances anyway.

I have long suspected that the reason eBay does not crack down on these frauds faster is that there
are people who will bid up the fraudulent auction spuriously; this increases the final sale fee that
eBay can demand. Unfortunately, it leaves the door open for the scam artist to harvest the bidder
contacts from the reasonable-amount bids, and attempt to "sell" the item to them.

I have purchased some expensive things on eBay over the years, among them the car that I'm currently
driving. I would have found the cited listing *very* suspicious, even had the OP not flagged the
factors that I would have not known about.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

 

[Cipher]

Originally posted by Chad G
I am the original poster regarding this scam. Knowing how automated ebay services are I took it upon myself to put a max
bid of $17000 on the bike. From how the auction played out, I assume a few other people decided to
have some fun with it. When it ended I was immediately sent a pretty funny email. Instead of paying
$14100, he wanted me to suck certain parts of him and he wanted to do dirty things to my wife. Happy
holidays everyone, Chad

Too Funny!!!

 

[Alex Rodriguez]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...

>BTW, another red flag: Payment by bank transfer ONLY. caveat emptor, baby!
>
>$14,100.00 12-17 12:11:01 $14,000.00 12-17 16:29:58 $10,000.00 12-17 14:32:16 $6,969.00 12-17
>12:08:25 $5,000.00 12-17 08:47:50 $1,425.00 12-17 01:24:37 $1,400.00 12-16 21:47:06 $1,399.00
>12-17 01:23:20 $1,300.00 12-16 20:55:16 $1,275.00 12-16 21:46:57 $1,150.00 12-16 21:46:49
>$1,100.00 12-16 21:46:41 $1,050.00 12-16 21:46:28 $1,000.00 12-16 07:27:57 $800.00 12-15
>13:36:03 $520.00 12-15 17:16:46 $500.00 12-14 05:26:02 $300.00 12-12 19:19:12 $300.00 12-13
>02:03:03 $200.00 12-13 02:02:04

Seller is also no longer an ebay member. Another red flag.
-----------
Alex

 

[Edward Dike]

"Alex Rodriguez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
| In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected]
| says...
|
| >BTW, another red flag: Payment by bank transfer ONLY. caveat emptor, baby!
| >
| >$14,100.00 12-17 12:11:01 $14,000.00 12-17 16:29:58 $10,000.00 12-17 14:32:16 $6,969.00 12-17
| >12:08:25 $5,000.00 12-17 08:47:50 $1,425.00 12-17 01:24:37 $1,400.00 12-16 21:47:06 $1,399.00 12-
| >17 01:23:20 $1,300.00 12-16 20:55:16 $1,275.00 12-16 21:46:57 $1,150.00 12-16 21:46:49 $1,100.00
| >12-16 21:46:41 $1,050.00 12-16 21:46:28 $1,000.00 12-16 07:27:57 $800.00 12-15 13:36:03 $520.00
| >12-15 17:16:46 $500.00 12-14 05:26:02 $300.00 12-12 19:19:12 $300.00 12-13 02:03:03 $200.00 12-13
| >02:02:04
|
| Seller is also no longer an ebay member. Another red flag.
| -----------
| Alex
|

Apparently the, oft maligned, do nothing behemoth, eBay... did something. ED3

 

[Chris]

Who would pay $14,000 for a Lemond?

Winning bid: US $14,100.00 (Reserve met)

"Edward Dike, III" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Chad G" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BC05F8AE.A26%[email protected]...
> | Just want to let everyone know that there is a 57cm Ti Lemond for sale on ebay. This is a bike
> | that I sold last week. The current seller posted a very similar auction listing. He also used
> | all the pictures that I took
> of
> | the bike. In his listing he stated that the bike is being sold through Freewheel Cycle...the
> | shop I work at. Beware of people like this, especially this time of year. I figured I would
> | bring it to everyones attention because there are 15bids on it already.
> |
> | The auction # is 3645460915
> |
> | I hope this helps, Chad
>
>
> Where did you transact the sale for the bike you ".... sold last week..." eBay?... What's the
> auction #?
>
>
> ED3

 

[Charles Berista]

There are plenty of phony Cannondale auctions up .. and we have been known to put in outrageous bids
just to make the point that they are phony.

Ebay doesn't seem to be too interested in being made aware of these phony bids... anyone found a
convenient mechanism for reporting these phony auctions?

charlie

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 03:36:07 GMT, "John Rees" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Jeff Starr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>| Harris <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:<[email protected]>...
>| > In rec.bicycles.tech Chad G <[email protected]> wrote:
>| > > Just want to let everyone know that there is a 57cm Ti
>Lemond for sale on
>| > > ebay. This is a bike that I sold last week. The current
>seller posted a
>| > > very similar auction listing. He also used all the
>pictures that I took of
>| > > the bike. In his listing he stated that the bike is
>being sold through
>| > > Freewheel Cycle...the shop I work at. Beware of people
>like this,
>| > > especially this time of year. I figured I would bring it
>to everyones
>| > > attention because there are 15bids on it already.
>| >
>| > > The auction # is 3645460915
>| >
>| > Wow! How can people bid $2500 on seller with no feedback
>rating? I notice
>| > he includes the words "good luck." ;->
>| >
>| > Art Harris
>|
>| I just checked in, there was 11 minutes left and the bid was
>at
>| $14,100.00. It makes no sense at all.
>
>It makes all the sense in the world to me. Someone, knowing it was a scam, posted a bid for this
>amount knowing they would never pay it. In doing so, they saved some potentially ignorant eBay
>newbie from getting fleeced. Of course, nobody is going to outbid 14k for that bike. Look at the
>bid history below. It all looked pretty normal until the post appeared on rbr. Then, very quickly,
>the bidding went over the top. The guy who bid 1,425 will probably never learn the favour someone
>did them.
>
>BTW, another red flag: Payment by bank transfer ONLY. caveat emptor, baby!
>
>$14,100.00 12-17 12:11:01 $14,000.00 12-17 16:29:58 $10,000.00 12-17 14:32:16 $6,969.00 12-17
>12:08:25 $5,000.00 12-17 08:47:50 $1,425.00 12-17 01:24:37 $1,400.00 12-16 21:47:06 $1,399.00
>12-17 01:23:20 $1,300.00 12-16 20:55:16 $1,275.00 12-16 21:46:57 $1,150.00 12-16 21:46:49
>$1,100.00 12-16 21:46:41 $1,050.00 12-16 21:46:28 $1,000.00 12-16 07:27:57 $800.00 12-15
>13:36:03 $520.00 12-15 17:16:46 $500.00 12-14 05:26:02 $300.00 12-12 19:19:12 $300.00 12-13
>02:03:03 $200.00 12-13 02:02:04

 

[DiabloScott]

Originally posted by Charles Berista
There are plenty of phony Cannondale auctions up .. and we have been known to put in outrageous bids
just to make the point that they are phony.

Ebay doesn't seem to be too interested in being made aware of these phony bids... anyone found a
convenient mechanism for reporting these phony auctions?

charlie

What happens when you make these outrageous bids? Does the auction close normally and then you just tell the phony seller that you have no intention of going through with it? Are there ways of making outrageous bids without risking your eBay rating?

 

[meb]

Originally posted by DiabloScott
What happens when you make these outrageous bids? Does the auction close normally and then you just tell the phony seller that you have no intention of going through with it? Are there ways of making outrageous bids without risking your eBay rating?

Not only are DiabloScott's buyer ratings a concern but:

1) The phony bidders have themselves engaged in fraudulent activity and could be expelled from Ebay;
2) and the phony bidders have entered a binding contract subjecting themselves to a breach of contract suit by the phony reseller. The phony bidders had full knowledge of the fraudulent bike shop association before placing the bid, so they have no fraud defense to fall back on should the seller file an action against them

Seems these phony buyers are taking a mighty big risk themselves in their efforts to block an alleged fraud.

BTW: Several persons on this thread have misconstrued the resellers use of the photos as a fraud. Since this is the same bike, there is no fraud regarding the photos. There is a possible copyright right argument and resulting cause of action that the photos were the intellectual property of the original seller, but the reseller could argue a fair use defense against any copyright infringement action and might prevail on the infringement cause of action or at least find no willful infringement existed precluding treble damages award for the value of the photographic infringement. At any rate, the second innocent buyer lacks a cause of action or defense on copyright issues for the photos, only fraud for the misrepresentation of the reseller's association with the bike shop. The only apparent fraud on the part of the reseller appears to be the misrepresented association with the bike shop.

 

[Len]

"Chad G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC07150A.ACE%[email protected]...
> I am the original poster regarding this scam. As soon as I saw the
auction
> I notified ebay, I notified the respective newgroups, and I emailed the seller. He promptly
> replied saying that he has a similar bike to sell. Knowing how automated ebay services are I took
> it upon myself to put a max bid of $17000 on the bike. From how the auction played out, I assume a
few
> other people decided to have some fun with it. When it ended I was immediately sent a pretty funny
> email. Instead of paying $14100, he
wanted
> me to suck certain parts of him and he wanted to do dirty things to my
wife.
> Happy holidays everyone, Chad
>
>
>
Go Ahead, man you are alright! Did good! I did a little investigation, last night, I found your
original e-bay. He did copy you. You got what I thought was a fair price. I feel you were also a
victim. It is a shame that you had to do anything, most people would have done nothing. You know
this guy has commited an actual felony. ( Now think along with me for a minute. Suppose that there
is some enforcement agency that really cares. Now, they track him down, by your email. He is
convicted of a couple of felonies, and sentenced to 10 years at real prison. Now, he gets an
education in body parts sucking.) fantasy over Whatever, you helped keep some honest people from
being victims too. And, I'm sorry the situation, also provided me with excelent entertainment Len

Hope his negative feedback does not hurt you {;<]