BG level or BG difference?

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Preston Rich, Feb 6, 2004.

  1. Preston Rich

    Preston Rich Guest

    In testing my BG impact from a particular meal should I just look at the 1hr and 2hr BG levels after
    the meal or go by the _difference_ between the pre-meal BG levels and the post meal BG levels? It
    seems that regardless of the pre-prandial BG level the post-prandial BG level stays about the same
    depending on the food. Is this normal?

    -Preston
     
    Tags:


  2. Andrea

    Andrea Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Preston Rich) wrote:
    >In testing my BG impact from a particular meal should I just look at the 1hr and 2hr BG levels
    >after the meal or go by the _difference_ between the pre-meal BG levels and the post meal BG
    >levels? It seems that regardless of the pre-prandial BG level the post-prandial BG level stays
    >about the same depending on the food. Is this normal?

    You want to consider both. We all have goals that we try to achieve with PP tests. The American
    Association of Clinical Endocrinologists recommends 140 or less; many people here aim for something
    lower than that.

    But, of course, if your pre-meal test was 180, for example, you're not likely to be 140 after
    eating. So while you're looking at getting your overall numbers down to an acceptable range you can
    look at what an individual meal does to you. I don't recall seeing any clinical recommendations on
    this. In my own mind, I'm thinking that a 40 point rise is reasonable (e.g., from 100 pre-meal to
    140 after two hours; from 180 pre-meal to 220 after two hours). I'm guessing that the people who
    want to be 120 or less after two hours would recommend no more than a 20 point rise.

    So in short, you want to stay at 140 or less after two hours (120 or less per Jennifer and others).
    But in considering whether a particular meal "spikes" you, I would consider a 20-40 point rise to be
    reasonable.

    --
    Lord, make me an instrument of your peace...
    where there is hatred, let me sow love.

    remove "spamtrap" for e-mail
     
  3. Julie Bove

    Julie Bove Guest

    "Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In testing my BG impact from a particular meal should I just look at the 1hr and 2hr BG levels
    > after the meal or go by the _difference_ between the pre-meal BG levels and the post meal BG
    > levels? It seems that regardless of the pre-prandial BG level the post-prandial BG level stays
    > about the same depending on the food. Is this normal?

    I'm not sure I understand your question. Ideally, you should be <110 fasting, <140 at one hour after
    eating and <120 at two hours after eating. I should add that these numbers can vary from person to
    person and their individual circumstance, but these numbers would apply to most people with type 2.

    --
    Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/
     
  4. Jon Kaplan

    Jon Kaplan Guest

    Julie Bove wrote:

    > I'm not sure I understand your question. Ideally, you should be ... <140 at one hour after eating
    > and <120 at two hours after eating.

    The point is that this is easier to achieve if I'm 80 before I eat than if I'm 110 before I eat. Jon
     
  5. well, for me, if I start out high, I end up higher after dinner than if I was under control before
    eating. I've no clue why your results are different.

    dave

    Preston Rich wrote:

    > In testing my BG impact from a particular meal should I just look at the 1hr and 2hr BG levels
    > after the meal or go by the _difference_ between the pre-meal BG levels and the post meal BG
    > levels? It seems that regardless of the pre-prandial BG level the post-prandial BG level stays
    > about the same depending on the food. Is this normal?
    >
    > -Preston
     
  6. Preston Rich

    Preston Rich Guest

    Well, after hundreds of readings I've found my highest daily readings come 1 hr. after breakfast
    (usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal)
    w/readings jumping from a preprandial morning average of 119 to a 1 hr. breakfast postprandial of
    160--my typical high point of the day. My BG readings then fall very consisently to an average low
    before bedtime of 100. I only get a 2 pt boost after lunch and 10 pt. boost after dinner. A T2
    deabetic, my daily medians...

    pre break 119 break + 1 hr 161 pre-lunch 114 lunch + 1 hr 116 pre-dinner 101 din + 1 hr 108
    bedtime 99

    Daily Median 114 Daily Average 123 HgA1c 5.5

    Is this pattern typical for most T2's? Any idea why so high 1 hr. after breakfast?

    -Preston


    Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<o8UUb.10206$S%[email protected]>...
    > well, for me, if I start out high, I end up higher after dinner than if I was under control before
    > eating. I've no clue why your results are different.
    >
    > dave
    >
    > Preston Rich wrote:
    >
    > > In testing my BG impact from a particular meal should I just look at the 1hr and 2hr BG levels
    > > after the meal or go by the _difference_ between the pre-meal BG levels and the post meal BG
    > > levels? It seems that regardless of the pre-prandial BG level the post-prandial BG level stays
    > > about the same depending on the food. Is this normal?
    > >
    > > -Preston
     
  7. Preston Rich <[email protected]> quoth:
    >Well, after hundreds of readings I've found my highest daily readings come 1 hr. after breakfast
    >(usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal)
    >w/readings jumping from a preprandial morning average of 119 to a 1 hr. breakfast postprandial of
    > 160--my typical high point of the day. My BG readings then fall very consisently to an average
    > low before bedtime of 100. I only get a 2 pt boost after lunch and 10 pt. boost after dinner. A
    > T2 deabetic, my daily medians...

    >pre break 119 break + 1 hr 161 pre-lunch 114 lunch + 1 hr 116 pre-dinner 101 din + 1 hr 108
    >bedtime 99

    >Daily Median 114 Daily Average 123 HgA1c 5.5

    >Is this pattern typical for most T2's? Any idea why so high 1 hr. after breakfast?

    I can understand why oatmeal might spike that high, but bacon & eggs? There's almost no carb in
    that. Do you wait a while after getting up before you eat? I'm thinking a liver dump might have
    already been triggered by the time you ate if you waited around for a bit.

    Priscilla, T2, diet & metformin, A1c 5.2
     
  8. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On 9 Feb 2004 07:51:32 -0800, [email protected] (Preston Rich)
    wrote:

    >Well, after hundreds of readings I've found my highest daily readings come 1 hr. after breakfast
    >(usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal)
    >w/readings jumping from a preprandial morning average of 119 to a 1 hr. breakfast postprandial of
    > 160--my typical high point of the day. My BG readings then fall very consisently to an average
    > low before bedtime of 100. I only get a 2 pt boost after lunch and 10 pt. boost after dinner. A
    > T2 deabetic, my daily medians...
    >
    >pre break 119 break + 1 hr 161 pre-lunch 114 lunch + 1 hr 116 pre-dinner 101 din + 1 hr 108
    >bedtime 99
    >
    >Daily Median 114 Daily Average 123 HgA1c 5.5
    >
    >Is this pattern typical for most T2's? Any idea why so high 1 hr. after breakfast?
    >
    >-Preston
    >
    >
    >

    Preston, when you say "usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal", you need to be more specific. For myself,
    bacon and eggs would not raise me more than 20 (about 1 mmol), but I could go from a FBG of 90 (5)
    to 180 (10) on oatmeal.

    If you are spiking on bacon and eggs, are you neglecting the "extras". like toast, or bread
    roll/bagel/croissant, or juice, or milk. Many people forget that these are also carbs. Also, the
    size of the portion, particularly if it's a carb, can be critical.

    If you kept records of the menu as well as the test results, go back and see if a pattern emerges
    based on that.

    I personally agree that what you eat will add to your base or start point; but there are a couple of
    factors which skew it. Your pre-eating figure may already be on the way down if it was initially
    high, and at breakfast you may also be influenced by the "dawn effect" as others will have
    mentioned.

    In my own case I only eat protein with a little associated fat at breakfast - a strip of well-
    drained bacon and one egg, or a small poached smoked fish, or mushrooms etc. This morning was a
    small hamburger patty and a half-tomato grilled. I went from 90 (5) to 100
    (5.5).

    But no cereal, bread/toast, juice or anything else with a significant carb component. I've even had
    to drop the milk in my coffee - now I have cinnamon.

    I eat my carbs later in the day when I can handle them better.

    Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical
    qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be
    an expensive teacher.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  9. Preston Rich

    Preston Rich Guest

    I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3 strips
    bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and milk--20 w/the
    bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast that any other meal by far. Still
    don't understand this pattern. Thanks.

    -Preston

    Alan <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 9 Feb 2004 07:51:32 -0800, [email protected] (Preston Rich) wrote:
    >
    > >Well, after hundreds of readings I've found my highest daily readings come 1 hr. after breakfast
    > >(usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal)
    > >w/readings jumping from a preprandial morning average of 119 to a 1 hr. breakfast postprandial of
    > > 160--my typical high point of the day. My BG readings then fall very consisently to an average
    > > low before bedtime of 100. I only get a 2 pt boost after lunch and 10 pt. boost after dinner. A
    > > T2 deabetic, my daily medians...
    > >
    > >pre break 119 break + 1 hr 161 pre-lunch 114 lunch + 1 hr 116 pre-dinner 101 din + 1 hr 108
    > >bedtime 99
    > >
    > >Daily Median 114 Daily Average 123 HgA1c 5.5
    > >
    > >Is this pattern typical for most T2's? Any idea why so high 1 hr. after breakfast?
    > >
    > >-Preston
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Preston, when you say "usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal", you need to be more specific. For
    > myself, bacon and eggs would not raise me more than 20 (about 1 mmol), but I could go from a FBG
    > of 90 (5) to 180 (10) on oatmeal.
    >
    > If you are spiking on bacon and eggs, are you neglecting the "extras". like toast, or bread
    > roll/bagel/croissant, or juice, or milk. Many people forget that these are also carbs. Also, the
    > size of the portion, particularly if it's a carb, can be critical.
    >
    > If you kept records of the menu as well as the test results, go back and see if a pattern emerges
    > based on that.
    >
    > I personally agree that what you eat will add to your base or start point; but there are a couple
    > of factors which skew it. Your pre-eating figure may already be on the way down if it was
    > initially high, and at breakfast you may also be influenced by the "dawn effect" as others will
    > have mentioned.
    >
    > In my own case I only eat protein with a little associated fat at breakfast - a strip of well-
    > drained bacon and one egg, or a small poached smoked fish, or mushrooms etc. This morning was a
    > small hamburger patty and a half-tomato grilled. I went from 90 (5) to 100
    > (5.5).
    >
    > But no cereal, bread/toast, juice or anything else with a significant carb component. I've even
    > had to drop the milk in my coffee - now I have cinnamon.
    >
    > I eat my carbs later in the day when I can handle them better.
    >
    > Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
    > medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
    > experience can be an expensive teacher.
     
  10. Colleen

    Colleen Guest

    Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk. It's faster acting, too, because
    there's no fat in it. c

    "Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3 strips
    > bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and milk--20
    > w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast that any other meal by far.
    > Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.
    >
    > -Preston
    >
    >
    >
    > Alan <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > On 9 Feb 2004 07:51:32 -0800, [email protected] (Preston Rich) wrote:
    > >
    > > >Well, after hundreds of readings I've found my highest daily readings come 1 hr. after
    > > >breakfast (usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal)
    > > >w/readings jumping from a preprandial morning average of 119 to a 1 hr. breakfast postprandial
    > > > of 160--my typical high point of the day. My BG readings then fall very consisently to an
    > > > average low before bedtime of 100. I only get a 2 pt boost after lunch and 10 pt. boost after
    > > > dinner. A T2 deabetic, my daily medians...
    > > >
    > > >pre break 119 break + 1 hr 161 pre-lunch 114 lunch + 1 hr 116 pre-dinner 101 din + 1 hr 108
    > > >bedtime 99
    > > >
    > > >Daily Median 114 Daily Average 123 HgA1c 5.5
    > > >
    > > >Is this pattern typical for most T2's? Any idea why so high 1 hr. after breakfast?
    > > >
    > > >-Preston
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > Preston, when you say "usually bacon and eggs or oatmeal", you need to be more specific. For
    > > myself, bacon and eggs would not raise me more than 20 (about 1 mmol), but I could go from a FBG
    > > of 90 (5) to 180 (10) on oatmeal.
    > >
    > > If you are spiking on bacon and eggs, are you neglecting the "extras". like toast, or bread
    > > roll/bagel/croissant, or juice, or milk. Many people forget that these are also carbs. Also, the
    > > size of the portion, particularly if it's a carb, can be critical.
    > >
    > > If you kept records of the menu as well as the test results, go back and see if a pattern
    > > emerges based on that.
    > >
    > > I personally agree that what you eat will add to your base or start point; but there are a
    > > couple of factors which skew it. Your pre-eating figure may already be on the way down if it was
    > > initially high, and at breakfast you may also be influenced by the "dawn effect" as others will
    > > have mentioned.
    > >
    > > In my own case I only eat protein with a little associated fat at breakfast - a strip of well-
    > > drained bacon and one egg, or a small poached smoked fish, or mushrooms etc. This morning was a
    > > small hamburger patty and a half-tomato grilled. I went from 90 (5) to 100
    > > (5.5).
    > >
    > > But no cereal, bread/toast, juice or anything else with a significant carb component. I've even
    > > had to drop the milk in my coffee - now I have cinnamon.
    > >
    > > I eat my carbs later in the day when I can handle them better.
    > >
    > > Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
    > > medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
    > > experience can be an expensive teacher.
     
  11. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:45:03 -0600, "Colleen" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk. It's faster acting, too,
    >because there's no fat in it. c
    >
    >"Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3 strips
    >> bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and milk--20
    >> w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast that any other meal by
    >> far. Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.
    >>
    >> -Preston
    >>

    Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise are carbs that come up
    and bite you.

    When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did you have
    coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?

    By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your weight? That can also affect things.

    You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to drop ALL the carbs before lunch,
    and only have minimal then. I can tolerate them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to keep testing
    to find your optimum time.

    Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical
    qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be
    an expensive teacher.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  12. Preston Rich

    Preston Rich Guest

    Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular Lactaid
    rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more like a latte
    w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically Metformin related)
    over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total caloric load reduced and
    along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging to my weight loss strategy.
    The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as well which may result in my nee
    do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic load. Since I spike significantly
    w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also switch to full milk there as well and see
    how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi and Grape Nuts. I tried instant oat meal and
    spiked 75 pts!

    -Preston

    Alan <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:45:03 -0600, "Colleen" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk. It's faster acting, too,
    > >because there's no fat in it. c
    > >
    > >"Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >> I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3
    > >> strips bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and
    > >> milk--20 w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast that any other
    > >> meal by far. Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.
    > >>
    > >> -Preston
    > >>
    >
    > Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise are carbs that come up and
    > bite you.
    >
    > When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did you
    > have coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?
    >
    > By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your weight? That can also affect things.
    >
    > You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to drop ALL the carbs before
    > lunch, and only have minimal then. I can tolerate them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to keep
    > testing to find your optimum time.
    >
    >
    >
    > Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
    > medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
    > experience can be an expensive teacher.
     
  13. Preston Rich

    Preston Rich Guest

    Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular Lactaid
    rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more like a latte
    w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically Metformin related)
    over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total caloric load reduced and
    along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging to my weight loss strategy.
    The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as well which may result in my nee
    do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic load. Since I spike significantly
    w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also switch to full milk there as well and see
    how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi and Grape Nuts. I tried instant oat meal and
    spiked 75 pts!

    -Preston

    Alan <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:45:03 -0600, "Colleen" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk. It's faster acting, too,
    > >because there's no fat in it. c
    > >
    > >"Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >> I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3
    > >> strips bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and
    > >> milk--20 w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast that any other
    > >> meal by far. Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.
    > >>
    > >> -Preston
    > >>
    >
    > Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise are carbs that come up and
    > bite you.
    >
    > When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did you
    > have coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?
    >
    > By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your weight? That can also affect things.
    >
    > You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to drop ALL the carbs before
    > lunch, and only have minimal then. I can tolerate them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to keep
    > testing to find your optimum time.
    >
    >
    >
    > Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
    > medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
    > experience can be an expensive teacher.
     
  14. Colleen

    Colleen Guest

    For most people cold cereal is one of the worst things to eat in the Am. I usually have a piece of
    whole grain-low carb toast with peanut butter and some berries on top. Sort of a PBJ without the
    sugar. I usually stay about the same then and have a carbier snack a couple hours later. c

    YMMV

    "Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular Lactaid
    > rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more like a latte
    > w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically Metformin related)
    > over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total caloric load reduced and
    > along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging to my weight loss strategy.
    > The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as well which may result in my nee
    > do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic load. Since I spike significantly
    > w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also switch to full milk there as well and see
    > how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi and Grape Nuts. I tried instant oat meal and
    > spiked 75 pts!
    >
    > -Preston
    >
    >
    >
    > Alan <[email protected]zconnect.net> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:45:03 -0600, "Colleen" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > >Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk.
    It's
    > > >faster acting, too, because there's no fat in it. c
    > > >
    > > >"Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > >news:[email protected]...
    > > >> I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3
    > > >> strips bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and
    > > >> milk--20 w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast
    that
    > > >> any other meal by far. Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.
    > > >>
    > > >> -Preston
    > > >>
    > >
    > > Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise are carbs that come up and
    > > bite you.
    > >
    > > When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did you
    > > have coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?
    > >
    > > By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your weight? That can also affect
    > > things.
    > >
    > > You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to drop ALL the carbs before
    > > lunch, and only have minimal then. I can tolerate them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to
    > > keep testing to find your optimum time.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
    > > medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
    > > experience can be an expensive teacher.
     
  15. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On 10 Feb 2004 06:41:57 -0800, [email protected] (Preston Rich)
    wrote:

    >Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular Lactaid
    >rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more like a latte
    >w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically Metformin related)
    >over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total caloric load reduced and
    >along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging to my weight loss strategy.
    >The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as well which may result in my nee
    >do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic load. Since I spike significantly
    >w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also switch to full milk there as well and see
    >how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi and Grape Nuts. I tried instant oat meal and
    >spiked 75 pts!
    >
    >-Preston

    Hi Preston

    Go back a couple of years (May' 02) and I've been where you are. At that time I weighed 257 and had
    an HbA1c of 8.2.

    If what I say now sounds like scare tactics; it is.

    My doc, who has a problem with bedside manner, put it very clearly: "If you don't sort out your
    diabetes, you won't live long enough for your leukemia to be a problem". Now, I don't always agree
    with my medics, but that certainly got my attention. And because of my other "problem" I decided to
    try without meds as much as possible.

    I realised that I had to have a major lifestyle change. You don't seem to have quite accepted that
    yet. You have to leave your comfort zone.

    From what you've posted, you need to drastically change your breakfast. You are right to learn about
    things like glycemic load, but never forget
    - your meter is telling you that you need to change, at least for that meal.

    Before you cut out milk completely, try cutting your breakfast in half. Whatever you had this
    morning, divide it all in two tomorrow. Then, if it still spikes, the first thing you cut is the
    cereal and associated milk. Cutting it in half will give the added advantage of assisting your
    weight loss. By the way, my milk consumption dropped from over a litre a day to less than a litre a
    fortnight. During my weight loss period I used skim, now I use full-cream but rarely.

    If you want to see exactly what I did for diet, email me. Remove starch to do so.

    Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical
    qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be
    an expensive teacher.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
  16. Preston Rich

    Preston Rich Guest

    Good points, all. As another experiment today, I witched from skim Lactaid milk to full Lactaid milk
    keeping other portions of Kashi constant. I also drank water instead of skim milk. My morning
    postprandial spike decreased by 50%!. Interestingly, I spike higher
    w/GrapeNuts than w/Kashi yet GrapeNuts has a lower glycemic load. With the eggs and bacon my spike
    is minimal so with the two choices I may have found a solution here. Again, breakfast is my most
    BG sensitive meal. I'll also try the whole wheat toast and maybe some Polander sug-free
    preserves and see what that does. Interestingly also, while certainly not healthy and rarely
    done, a dinner out
    x/prime rib, salad and baked potato w/butter actually _decreases_ my postprandial PM BG. Strange.

    -Preston

    "Colleen" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > For most people cold cereal is one of the worst things to eat in the Am. I usually have a piece of
    > whole grain-low carb toast with peanut butter and some berries on top. Sort of a PBJ without the
    > sugar. I usually stay about the same then and have a carbier snack a couple hours later. c
    >
    > YMMV
    >
    >
    > "Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular Lactaid
    > > rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more like a
    > > latte w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically Metformin
    > > related) over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total caloric load
    > > reduced and along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging to my weight
    > > loss strategy. The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as well which may
    > > result in my nee do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic load. Since I
    > > spike significantly w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also switch to full milk
    > > there as well and see how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi and Grape Nuts. I
    > > tried instant oat meal and spiked 75 pts!
    > >
    > > -Preston
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Alan <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:45:03 -0600, "Colleen" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk.
    > It's
    > > > >faster acting, too, because there's no fat in it. c
    > > > >
    > > > >"Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > >news:[email protected]...
    > > > >> I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast 3
    > > > >> strips bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs and skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal
    > > > >> and milk--20 w/the bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast
    > that
    > > > >> any other meal by far. Still don't understand this pattern. Thanks.
    > > > >>
    > > > >> -Preston
    > > > >>
    > > >
    > > > Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise are carbs that come up and
    > > > bite you.
    > > >
    > > > When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did
    > > > you have coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?
    > > >
    > > > By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your weight? That can also affect
    > > > things.
    > > >
    > > > You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to drop ALL the carbs before
    > > > lunch, and only have minimal then. I can tolerate them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to
    > > > keep testing to find your optimum time.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
    > > > medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
    > > > experience can be an expensive teacher.
     
  17. Colleen

    Colleen Guest

    "Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Good points, all. As another experiment today, I witched from skim Lactaid milk to full Lactaid
    > milk keeping other portions of Kashi constant. I also drank water instead of skim milk. My morning
    > postprandial spike decreased by 50%!. Interestingly, I spike higher
    > w/GrapeNuts than w/Kashi yet GrapeNuts has a lower glycemic load. With the eggs and bacon my spike
    > is minimal so with the two choices I may have found a solution here. Again, breakfast is my most
    > BG sensitive meal. I'll also try the whole wheat toast and maybe some Polander sug-free
    > preserves and see what that does. Interestingly also, while certainly not healthy and rarely
    > done, a dinner out
    > w/prime rib, salad and baked potato w/butter actually _decreases_ my postprandial PM BG. Strange.
    >
    > -Preston

    It's the fat in the prime rib and the butter on the potato. Fat slows down the absorption of
    carbohydrate. c

    >
    >
    >
    > "Colleen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > For most people cold cereal is one of the worst things to eat in the Am.
    I
    > > usually have a piece of whole grain-low carb toast with peanut butter
    and
    > > some berries on top. Sort of a PBJ without the sugar. I usually stay
    about
    > > the same then and have a carbier snack a couple hours later. c
    > >
    > > YMMV
    > >
    > >
    > > "Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Yes. that must be it. Since I use Lactose free skim milk, I'll try moving to the regular
    > > > Lactaid rather than using the skim. I also use the same in my coffee in the am--actually more
    > > > like a latte w/about 50% milk. I'll use regular there as well. I've lost 30 lbs (basically
    > > > Metformin related) over the past 3 mths and now weigh 230. My target is 180. With my total
    > > > caloric load reduced and along w/my "carb awareness" my morning eggs shouldn't be too damaging
    > > > to my weight loss strategy. The am liver pump syndrome may force me to eliminate AM carbs as
    > > > well which may result in my nee do eliminate milk, although reg milk has a very low glycemic
    > > > load. Since I spike significantly w/cold cereals in the AM using that skim milk I'll also
    > > > switch to full milk there as well and see how that works out. The cold cereals I use are Kashi
    > > > and Grape Nuts. I tried instant oat meal and spiked 75 pts!
    > > >
    > > > -Preston
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Alan <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > > On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:45:03 -0600, "Colleen" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > >Skimmed milk actually has a few more carbs in it than regular milk.
    > > It's
    > > > > >faster acting, too, because there's no fat in it. c
    > > > > >
    > > > > >"Preston Rich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > >news:[email protected]...
    > > > > >> I do have a significant dawn effect w/my liver pumping big time overnight. For breakfast
    > > > > >> 3 strips bacon, 3 well scrambled eggs
    and
    > > > > >> skim milk. I'll spike 40 w/just Kashi dry cereal and milk--20
    w/the
    > > > > >> bacon and eggs. Seems I'm much more prone to spikes at breakfast
    > > that
    > > > > >> any other meal by far. Still don't understand this pattern.
    Thanks.
    > > > > >>
    > > > > >> -Preston
    > > > > >>
    > > > >
    > > > > Colleen's right Preston. It's those little extras you don't realise
    are
    > > > > carbs that come up and bite you.
    > > > >
    > > > > When I make scrambled eggs, there's milk in there too - did you take that into account? Did
    > > > > you have coffee with milk, or some toast, or juice?
    > > > >
    > > > > By the way, that would be three breakfasts for me. How's your
    weight?
    > > > > That can also affect things.
    > > > >
    > > > > You are aware of the liver dump, that's why it happens. I've had to
    drop
    > > > > ALL the carbs before lunch, and only have minimal then. I can
    tolerate
    > > > > them in the evening - YMMV. You'll need to keep testing to find your optimum time.
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no
    > > > > medical qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because
    > > > > experience can be an expensive teacher.
     
  18. Alan

    Alan Guest

    On 11 Feb 2004 07:02:34 -0800, [email protected] (Preston Rich)
    wrote:

    >Good points, all. As another experiment today, I witched from skim Lactaid milk to full Lactaid
    >milk keeping other portions of Kashi constant. I also drank water instead of skim milk. My morning
    >postprandial spike decreased by 50%!. Interestingly, I spike higher
    >w/GrapeNuts than w/Kashi yet GrapeNuts has a lower glycemic load. With the eggs and bacon my spike
    > is minimal so with the two choices I may have found a solution here. Again, breakfast is my most
    > BG sensitive meal. I'll also try the whole wheat toast and maybe some Polander sug-free
    > preserves and see what that does. Interestingly also, while certainly not healthy and rarely
    > done, a dinner out
    >w/prime rib, salad and baked potato w/butter actually _decreases_ my postprandial PM BG. Strange.
    >
    >-Preston

    Preston, if you do the sums, subject to portion size, you probably had a lot less carbs in that
    dinner than in the breakfast. Minimal, if any (maybe gravy or sauce) in the rib, minimal in the
    salad (provided no pasta, rice or beans etc in it) so almost all of them were the potato. And it's
    effect is slowed down by the butter.

    Add to that the dawn effect and it's no wonder you're still spiking in the morning.

    That dinner probably didn't hurt your BGs much at all. Can't say the same for it's effect on your
    waistline.

    Cheers Alan, T2, Oz. dx May 2002 , A1C 5.8, no meds, diet and not enough exercise. I have no medical
    qualifications beyond my own experience. Choose your advisers carefully, because experience can be
    an expensive teacher.
    --
    Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.
     
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