Bianchi? Chiuso per Pantani

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Inconnu, Jun 1, 2003.

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  1. Inconnu

    Inconnu Guest

    Felice Gimondi had denied that Bianchi will let Pantani into the Tour de Farce through back door.

    Whilst the transfer is possible under UCI rules, Gimondi denies any meetings having taken place
    between Bianchi and Mercatone Uno, adding that the team already has one leader too many.

    (Ullrich and Casero are already signed up)

    Meanhile, whilst most of Toasted Coast were signed by Bianchi (19 of 22 riders reportedly) along
    with some of the staff, the salaries Bianchi, who were never backwards in coming forward to Kick a
    Dying Dog, are paying are Fire Sale rates at best in true Capitalist Pig Style.

    So here's wishing you lots of Flat Tires, Bianchi
     
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  2. Us

    Us Guest

    comment at CN was that one of the spaniards was making so little he might find it hard to buy
    food! WTF?

    inconnu wrote:

    > Felice Gimondi had denied that Bianchi will let Pantani into the Tour de Farce through back door.
    >
    > Whilst the transfer is possible under UCI rules, Gimondi denies any meetings having taken place
    > between Bianchi and Mercatone Uno, adding that the team already has one leader too many.
    >
    > (Ullrich and Casero are already signed up)
    >
    > Meanhile, whilst most of Toasted Coast were signed by Bianchi (19 of 22 riders reportedly) along
    > with some of the staff, the salaries Bianchi, who were never backwards in coming forward to Kick a
    > Dying Dog, are paying are Fire Sale rates at best in true Capitalist Pig Style.
    >
    > So here's wishing you lots of Flat Tires, Bianchi
     
  3. "inconnu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected].net.c able.rogers.com...
    > Felice Gimondi had denied that Bianchi will let Pantani into the Tour de Farce through back door.
    >
    > Whilst the transfer is possible under UCI rules, Gimondi denies any meetings having taken place
    > between Bianchi and Mercatone Uno, adding that the team already has one leader too many.
    >
    > (Ullrich and Casero are already signed up)
    >
    > Meanhile, whilst most of Toasted Coast were signed by Bianchi (19 of 22 riders reportedly) along
    > with some of the staff, the salaries Bianchi, who were never backwards in coming forward to Kick a
    > Dying Dog, are paying are Fire Sale rates at best in true Capitalist Pig Style.
    >
    > So here's wishing you lots of Flat Tires, Bianchi

    You can't really expect them to shell out top $$$ to sponsor that team. Their return on investment
    has a definite ceiling on it since their is so much negative publicity surrounding the outfit.

    How many other frame manufacturers are the title sponsor of a TdF team? Answer is: none, because
    they can't afford it.

    When was the last time that happened? It's been a long time.
     
  4. Dan Gregory

    Dan Gregory Guest

    How about an Italian "Mixte" team with Cipo, Pantani, & Casagrande as team 23??

    All the best, Dan Gregory
     
  5. It was Marcel Wüst ,former Coast spokesperson, who said in an interview on radsport-news.de,that one
    of the spanish guys in the staff had to sign a contract, he earns so little now, that he can fill up
    his fridge once a month. Besides, WÜst has not yet signed with Bianchi...

    us a écrit:
    > comment at CN was that one of the spaniards was making so little he might find it hard to buy
    > food! WTF?
    >
    > inconnu wrote:
    >
    >> Felice Gimondi had denied that Bianchi will let Pantani into the Tour de Farce through back door.
    >>
    >> Whilst the transfer is possible under UCI rules, Gimondi denies any meetings having taken place
    >> between Bianchi and Mercatone Uno, adding that the team already has one leader too many.
    >>
    >> (Ullrich and Casero are already signed up)
    >>
    >> Meanhile, whilst most of Toasted Coast were signed by Bianchi (19 of 22 riders reportedly) along
    >> with some of the staff, the salaries Bianchi, who were never backwards in coming forward to Kick
    >> a Dying Dog, are paying are Fire Sale rates at best in true Capitalist Pig Style.
    >>
    >> So here's wishing you lots of Flat Tires, Bianchi
     
  6. Benjo Maso

    Benjo Maso Guest

    "Dan Gregory" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > How about an Italian "Mixte" team with Cipo, Pantani, & Casagrande as team

    Before the war there was a category of "individuals", riders who didn't belong to a team but could
    participate all the same. Perhaps it could be reinstated. IMO a category made for men like Cipo.

    Benjo Maso
     
  7. Joe Hurley

    Joe Hurley Guest

    Benjo,

    An excellent idea. There is, however, one problem with it.

    Suppose, just for the sake of argument, that the TDF let someone, say Cipollini, again for
    argument's sake, as an individual rider.

    Who will drive the following car? Who will support him if he has mechanical problems?

    You're comparing 2003 with, say, 1938, which is before my parents were even born. The amount of
    overhead required to support one bicycle racer in the Tour de France today is probably of a
    magnitude such that no one single racer could finance the effort. He needs to have an infrastructure
    behind him -- else when he flats on the roads, he's at the mercy of the neutral service vehicle, and
    if on a breakaway, that could be miles (or kilometres) behind him.

    Also, these machines are expensive to obtain, maintain, and repair. Unless he were independently
    wealthy, where would a solo bicyclist obtain the (substantial) amount of capital necessary? Given
    the long odds of winning any given race (proven by the fact that so few people have won double-digit
    numbers of stages in the Giro or Le Tour in a lifetime), it is highly unlikely a bank would extend
    financing on such a dicey venture. They would view it (and not without justification) as gambling.

    I agree it is unfortunate that these, shall we say material considerations, have to penetrate into a
    sport like bicycle racing. But reality is reality, much as we might have it otherwise.

    Just some thoughts from the accountant in me.

    Regards,

    Joe Hurley "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Dan Gregory" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > How about an Italian "Mixte" team with Cipo, Pantani, & Casagrande as
    team
    >
    >
    > Before the war there was a category of "individuals", riders who didn't belong to a team but could
    > participate all the same. Perhaps it could be reinstated. IMO a category made for men like Cipo.
    >
    > Benjo Maso
     
  8. >
    >
    >You can't really expect them to shell out top $$$ to sponsor that team. Their return on investment
    >has a definite ceiling on it since their is so much negative publicity surrounding the outfit.
    >
    >How many other frame manufacturers are the title sponsor of a TdF team? Answer is: none, because
    >they can't afford it.
    >
    >
    >When was the last time that happened? It's been a long time.
    >
    Mid 80's - Orbea?

    Regards! Stephen
     
  9. On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 13:08:43 +0100, "Dan Gregory" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >How about an Italian "Mixte" team with Cipo, Pantani, & Casagrande as team 23??
    >
    >All the best, Dan Gregory
    >
    Didn't this happen with a couple of French teams, mid '90s - Big Mat and somebody else?

    Regards! Stephen
     
  10. Benjo Maso

    Benjo Maso Guest

    "Joe Hurley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Benjo,
    >
    > An excellent idea. There is, however, one problem with it.
    >
    > Suppose, just for the sake of argument, that the TDF let someone, say Cipollini, again for
    > argument's sake, as an individual rider.
    >
    > Who will drive the following car? Who will support him if he has
    mechanical
    > problems?
    >
    > You're comparing 2003 with, say, 1938, which is before my parents were
    even
    > born. The amount of overhead required to support one bicycle racer in the Tour de France today is
    > probably of a magnitude such that no one single racer could finance the effort. He needs to have
    > an infrastructure behind him -- else when he flats on the roads, he's at the mercy of the neutral
    > service vehicle, and if on a breakaway, that could be miles (or
    kilometres)
    > behind him.
    >
    > Also, these machines are expensive to obtain, maintain, and repair.
    Unless
    > he were independently wealthy, where would a solo bicyclist obtain the (substantial) amount of
    > capital necessary? Given the long odds of winning any given race (proven by the fact that so few
    > people have won
    double-digit
    > numbers of stages in the Giro or Le Tour in a lifetime), it is highly unlikely a bank would extend
    > financing on such a dicey venture. They
    would
    > view it (and not without justification) as gambling.
    >
    > I agree it is unfortunate that these, shall we say material
    considerations,
    > have to penetrate into a sport like bicycle racing. But reality is
    reality,
    > much as we might have it otherwise.
    >

    I wasn't serious. The individuals in the 1920's and 1930's were really individuals, which meant they
    were completely on their own. They had to pay for their own accomodations expenses, they didn't have
    masseurs, helpers, etc. and certainly not a car behind them. Because neutral service vehicles didn't
    exist yet, they had to make their own repairs Flats weren't the main problem (it took "only" one and
    a half or two minutes), but if they had serious trouble, a broken frame for example, they had to go
    home. And yet the individuel MarioVicino finished second in 1937, only seven minutes behind the
    Frenchman Lapébie who was helped by everybody and not only his teammates... They're always saying
    that bicycle racing is an individual sport played by teams. True of course, but to my regret it's
    becoming more and more a teamsport and I think Cipo is the epitome of this process. I don't know if
    you have seen the Giro on television: every time Cipo had to drop from the pack and wasn't
    surrounded by teammates for a moment, not only he became completely helpless, but also angry and
    even aggressive to journalists and cameramen. In short, I would love to see Cipo as an individual.
    From an educational point of view it would be so useful :)

    Benjo Maso
     
  11. Tony

    Tony Guest

    Steve McGinty <[email protected]_DOT_.com> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 13:08:43 +0100, "Dan Gregory" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >How about an Italian "Mixte" team with Cipo, Pantani, & Casagrande as team 23??
    > >
    > >All the best, Dan Gregory
    > >
    > Didn't this happen with a couple of French teams, mid '90s - Big Mat and somebody else?
    >
    > Regards! Stephen

    For the 1995 Tour de France, the Italian ZG-Selle Italia team was merged with the German
    Telekom team

    TELEKOM-ZG-SELLE ITALIA 201 ALDAG Rolf (All) 202 BOLTS Udo (All) 203 HEPPNER Jens (All) 204 LUDWIG
    Olaf (All) hd.9° 205 POULNIKOV Vladimir (Ukr) 206 ZABEL Erik (All) 207 COLAGE Stefano (Ita) 208
    FERRIGATO Andrea (Ita) 209 RODRIGUEZ Nelson (Col) ab.7°
     
  12. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    Steve McGinty <[email protected]_DOT_.com> wrote:

    > On Sun, 1 Jun 2003 13:08:43 +0100, "Dan Gregory" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >How about an Italian "Mixte" team with Cipo, Pantani, & Casagrande as team 23??
    > >
    > >All the best, Dan Gregory
    > >
    > Didn't this happen with a couple of French teams, mid '90s - Big Mat and somebody else?
    >
    > Regards! Stephen

    In '95, Telekom and ZG-Mobili had to combine forces (with Zabel as leader?) in the Tour. I don't
    recall them getting any result of note, but that was eight years ago.

    --
    tanx, Howard

    Read. Think. Type. Send.

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, k?

    For some people, quantity IS quality...
     
  13. Martin Appel

    Martin Appel Guest

    Howard Kveck <[email protected]> schrieb:

    > In '95, Telekom and ZG-Mobili had to combine forces (with Zabel as leader?) in the Tour. I
    > don't recall them getting any result of note, but that was eight years ago.

    Zabel won two stages.

    Martin
     
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