Bicycle Drift, revisited...

[dabac]

Carl,

You also need to consider that not all road surfaces are created equal. The grit size may vary, the grit/bitumen ratio may vary, and the characteristics of the bitumen itself may vary. Small particles and/or a low grit/bitumen ratio can give a far smoother surface than one might expect.
Different types of rock will also wear differently, thus influencing how the road surface changes over time.
Bitumen can also not only be of different hardness at the same temperature, but different compositions can also have different temperature responses, with some mixes reacting quickly and others being more uniform across the temperature range.

So, what I'm getting at, in a rather long-winded way, is that we don't really know the surface conditions these guys begin with, let alone how that surface will interact with whatever stuff that's on top of it.

Cheers,

dabac

 

[Michael Press]

In article <[email protected]>,
BJ <[email protected]> wrote:

> amongst other things
>
> [email protected] wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
> > ***
> >
> > The trouble with bleach is that it seems to last an awfully long time
> > down that highway, though I suppose that if you soaked the sandals
> > overnight bleach (or something similar), it might last longer than
> > expected.
> >
> > ***
> >
> > The trouble with fine sand is that the sandals show no sign of
> > smoking, much less being sandpapered off under full body weight for
> > over a mile at high speed.
> >
> > Nor does there seem to be any sand blown up by the draft of the
> > numerous cars. If it's really fine sand, you'd expect to see a least a
> > little sand storm. The white robes aren't getting dirty, as far as I
> > can see.
> >
> > The cars on the busy road show no sign of poor traction, but the
> > sandals are probably much more lightly loaded per square inch than car
> > tires.
> >
>
> Is bleach slippery? I don't have any on hand for a test, but I suspect it
> would not be particularly so.
>
> And if those guys sliding along with the car were on anything other than
> ice they would be getting mighty hot feet.

Bleach is not slippery. Categorical assertion.

--
Michael Press

 

[Tom Sherman]

"dabac" who? wrote:
> [email protected] Wrote:
>
> Carl,
>
> You also need to consider that not all road surfaces are created equal.
> The grit size may vary, the grit/bitumen ratio may vary, and the
> characteristics of the bitumen itself may vary. Small particles and/or a
> low grit/bitumen ratio can give a far smoother surface than one might
> expect.
> Different types of rock will also wear differently, thus influencing
> how the road surface changes over time.
> Bitumen can also not only be of different hardness at the same
> temperature, but different compositions can also have different
> temperature responses, with some mixes reacting quickly and others being
> more uniform across the temperature range.
>
> So, what I'm getting at, in a rather long-winded way, is that we don't
> really know the surface conditions these guys begin with, let alone how
> that surface will interact with whatever stuff that's on top of it.

In the Middle East where oil is relatively inexpensive, there may well
be much less incentive (compared to the US and Western Europe) to
minimize the amount of asphaltic cement in a paving mix. The asphaltic
cement in the Middle East is also likely "richer" in light hydrocarbon
fractions, since less "cracking" has occurred to extract the maximum
percentage of high energy lighter components.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people." A. Derleth

 

[[email protected]]

On Jan 8, 4:16 am, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:

> I wonder if the sandal skaters aren't also putting quite a lot of their
> weight on the car door rather than on the road. That would help quite a
> bit.

I was thinking this to begin with as well. Growing up in the 'burbs,
some friends and I often "sneaker skated" or "sketched" off of each
others vehicles, be it from the doors or (the much preferred) from the
tailgate of a pickup. The trick was keeping a good chunk of your
weight off of your feet, and switching which foot was load bearing
often. After watching the videos and seeing the extremes these guys
took it to, I decided these guys were WAY out of our league and was
not going to mention my childhood antics until I saw your post.

Another "trick" that I've seen plenty of is "skating" on the
motorcycles. It's actually really easy to dig in your heels and lift
yourself off of the bike while driving down most roads, but I wouldn't
do it for an extreme amount of time. Also, many tricksters have
throttle locks on their crotch rockets, and they can be seen towing
themselves down the street behind their empty bike.
See: http://tinyurl.com/2hqxnv (full link
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2)

While this does not account for the bike drifting, it does show that
it's possible to skate on one's footwear on US roads as well.

 

[Mike]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> On Jan 8, 4:16 am, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I wonder if the sandal skaters aren't also putting quite a lot of their
> > weight on the car door rather than on the road. That would help quite a
> > bit.
>
> I was thinking this to begin with as well. Growing up in the 'burbs,
> some friends and I often "sneaker skated" or "sketched" off of each
> others vehicles, be it from the doors or (the much preferred) from the
> tailgate of a pickup. The trick was keeping a good chunk of your
> weight off of your feet, and switching which foot was load bearing
> often. After watching the videos and seeing the extremes these guys
> took it to, I decided these guys were WAY out of our league and was
> not going to mention my childhood antics until I saw your post.
>
> Another "trick" that I've seen plenty of is "skating" on the
> motorcycles. It's actually really easy to dig in your heels and lift
> yourself off of the bike while driving down most roads, but I wouldn't
> do it for an extreme amount of time. Also, many tricksters have
> throttle locks on their crotch rockets, and they can be seen towing
> themselves down the street behind their empty bike.
> See: http://tinyurl.com/2hqxnv (full link
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2)
>
> While this does not account for the bike drifting, it does show that
> it's possible to skate on one's footwear on US roads as well.
>
But consider, as an alternate option, that the soles of the sneakers have been somehow adapted to significantly reduce
their coefficient of friction.

Mike

 

[[email protected]]

On Jan 9, 4:46 pm, Mike <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
>
>
> > On Jan 8, 4:16 am, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I wonder if the sandal skaters aren't also putting quite a lot of their
> > > weight on the car door rather than on the road. That would help quite a
> > > bit.
>
> > I was thinking this to begin with as well.  Growing up in the 'burbs,
> > some friends and I often "sneaker skated" or "sketched" off of each
> > others vehicles, be it from the doors or (the much preferred) from the
> > tailgate of a pickup.  The trick was keeping a good chunk of your
> > weight off of your feet, and switching which foot was load bearing
> > often.  After watching the videos and seeing the extremes these guys
> > took it to, I decided these guys were WAY out of our league and was
> > not going to mention my childhood antics until I saw your post.
>
> > Another "trick" that I've seen plenty of is "skating" on the
> > motorcycles.  It's actually really easy to dig in your heels and lift
> > yourself off of the bike while driving down most roads, but I wouldn't
> > do it for an extreme amount of time.  Also, many tricksters have
> > throttle locks on their crotch rockets, and they can be seen towing
> > themselves down the street behind their empty bike.
> > See:  http://tinyurl.com/2hqxnv(full link
> >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4422730453398688990&q=sneake....)
>
> > While this does not account for the bike drifting, it does show that
> > it's possible to skate on one's footwear on US roads as well.
>
> But consider, as an alternate option, that the soles of the sneakers have been somehow adapted to significantly reduce
> their coefficient of friction.
>
> Mike- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Certainly a possibility. I was just making the point that my friends
and I, and I'm sure many others, have done plenty of sketching on or
behind cars, trucks, and motorcycles in normal sneakers on US roads.
Um... er... I mean in private parking lots, of course

 

[[email protected]]

Mike Fee writes:

>>> I wonder if the sandal skaters aren't also putting quite a lot of
>>> their weight on the car door rather than on the road. That would
>>> help quite a bit.

>> I was thinking this to begin with as well. Growing up in the
>> 'burbs, some friends and I often "sneaker skated" or "sketched" off
>> of each others vehicles, be it from the doors or (the much
>> preferred) from the tailgate of a pickup. The trick was keeping a
>> good chunk of your weight off of your feet, and switching which
>> foot was load bearing often. After watching the videos and seeing
>> the extremes these guys took it to, I decided these guys were WAY
>> out of our league and was not going to mention my childhood antics
>> until I saw your post.

>> Another "trick" that I've seen plenty of is "skating" on the
>> motorcycles. It's actually really easy to dig in your heels and
>> lift yourself off of the bike while driving down most roads, but I
>> wouldn't do it for an extreme amount of time. Also, many
>> tricksters have throttle locks on their crotch rockets, and they
>> can be seen towing themselves down the street behind their empty
>> bike. See:

http://tinyurl.com/2hqxnv (full link

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2)

>> While this does not account for the bike drifting, it does show
>> that it's possible to skate on one's footwear on US roads as well.

> But consider, as an alternate option, that the soles of the sneakers
> have been somehow adapted to significantly reduce their coefficient
> of friction.

These guys would be rich if they had such a product. There are no
mystery potions in friction and wear although many believe Teflon is
one. I have been towed behind a car on ordinary shoes on a fine layer
of snow, and it looked much like these guys. I don't know where this
was done but just because the middle east has hot weather, remember
that deserts are also freezing cold in winter.

Jobst Brandt

 

[Ben C]

On 2008-01-09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
[...]
>>> Another "trick" that I've seen plenty of is "skating" on the
>>> motorcycles. It's actually really easy to dig in your heels and
>>> lift yourself off of the bike while driving down most roads, but I
>>> wouldn't do it for an extreme amount of time. Also, many
>>> tricksters have throttle locks on their crotch rockets, and they
>>> can be seen towing themselves down the street behind their empty
>>> bike. See:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2hqxnv (full link
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2)
>
>>> While this does not account for the bike drifting, it does show
>>> that it's possible to skate on one's footwear on US roads as well.
>
>> But consider, as an alternate option, that the soles of the sneakers
>> have been somehow adapted to significantly reduce their coefficient
>> of friction.
>
> These guys would be rich if they had such a product. There are no
> mystery potions in friction and wear although many believe Teflon is
> one.

Perhaps they have the latest ceramic sandals.

> I have been towed behind a car on ordinary shoes on a fine layer
> of snow, and it looked much like these guys. I don't know where this
> was done but just because the middle east has hot weather, remember
> that deserts are also freezing cold in winter.

Well we can suppose this "Saudi Road-Skating" to be taking place in
Saudi Arabia.

According to the BBC "In the interior, and in the higher mountains in
the northwest of Saudi Arabia, winter temperatures occasionally fall low
enough for frost and snow to occur".

I'm still not finding this ice theory remotely convincing though.

 

[[email protected]]

Ben C? writes:

>>>> Another "trick" that I've seen plenty of is "skating" on the
>>>> motorcycles. It's actually really easy to dig in your heels and
>>>> lift yourself off of the bike while driving down most roads, but I
>>>> wouldn't do it for an extreme amount of time. Also, many
>>>> tricksters have throttle locks on their crotch rockets, and they
>>>> can be seen towing themselves down the street behind their empty
>>>> bike. See:

http://tinyurl.com/2hqxnv (full link

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2)

>>>> While this does not account for the bike drifting, it does show
>>>> that it's possible to skate on one's footwear on US roads as
>>>> well.

>>> But consider, as an alternate option, that the soles of the
>>> sneakers have been somehow adapted to significantly reduce their
>>> coefficient of friction.

>> These guys would be rich if they had such a product. There are no
>> mystery potions in friction and wear although many believe Teflon
>> is one.

> Perhaps they have the latest ceramic sandals.

>> I have been towed behind a car on ordinary shoes on a fine layer of
>> snow, and it looked much like these guys. I don't know where this
>> was done but just because the middle east has hot weather, remember
>> that deserts are also freezing cold in winter.

> Well we can suppose this "Saudi Road-Skating" to be taking place in
> Saudi Arabia.

> According to the BBC "In the interior, and in the higher mountains
> in the northwest of Saudi Arabia, winter temperatures occasionally
> fall low enough for frost and snow to occur".

> I'm still not finding this ice theory remotely convincing though.

Had you had more experience with friction and wear (tribology) you
would find all the other explanations even harder to believe, non of
them explaining what cased the effects shown... Like fine frosty dust
coming from the rear tire of a bicycle spinning its rear wheel on a
glossy clean surface.

That this was a rare occurrence is evident in their recording of this
unusual event. This was unusual and they demonstrated it. No one
said it snowed. A glaze of ice can occur after a cold night with low
level fog. As I have mentioned, I was there for a 100year freeze and
wrote about it when places froze that never freeze in winter.

http://www.trentobike.org/Countries/Switzerland/Tour_Reports/Ice_Princess_1963/

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 16:47:36 -0600, Ben C <[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm still not finding this ice theory remotely convincing though.

Dear Ben,

It isn't a plausible theory for the car-skaters on the Riyadh highway,
nor for numerous other videos showing cars, skaters, and bicycles
drifting down sunny Arabian roads.

The temperature hasn't dropped to freezing in Riyadh during this
century:


http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Lowest temp for January 2007 was 34F, average daily low was 45F.
Lowest temp for January 2006 was 39F, average daily low was 49F.
Lowest temp for January 2005 was 35F, average daily low was 48F.
no data 2004
Lowest temp for January 2003 was 39F, average daily low was 47F.
Lowest temp for January 2002 was 39F, average daily low was 50F.
Lowest temp for January 2001 was 35F, average daily low was 46F.
Lowest temp for January 2000 was 42F, average daily low was 49F.

The 2004 data table mistakenly puts the monthly average into the
maximum and minimum columns.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Mike]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Mike Fee writes:
>
> >>> I wonder if the sandal skaters aren't also putting quite a lot of
> >>> their weight on the car door rather than on the road. That would
> >>> help quite a bit.
>
> >> I was thinking this to begin with as well. Growing up in the
> >> 'burbs, some friends and I often "sneaker skated" or "sketched" off
> >> of each others vehicles, be it from the doors or (the much
> >> preferred) from the tailgate of a pickup. The trick was keeping a
> >> good chunk of your weight off of your feet, and switching which
> >> foot was load bearing often. After watching the videos and seeing
> >> the extremes these guys took it to, I decided these guys were WAY
> >> out of our league and was not going to mention my childhood antics
> >> until I saw your post.
>
> >> Another "trick" that I've seen plenty of is "skating" on the
> >> motorcycles. It's actually really easy to dig in your heels and
> >> lift yourself off of the bike while driving down most roads, but I
> >> wouldn't do it for an extreme amount of time. Also, many
> >> tricksters have throttle locks on their crotch rockets, and they
> >> can be seen towing themselves down the street behind their empty
> >> bike. See:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2hqxnv (full link
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2)
>
> >> While this does not account for the bike drifting, it does show
> >> that it's possible to skate on one's footwear on US roads as well.
>
> > But consider, as an alternate option, that the soles of the sneakers
> > have been somehow adapted to significantly reduce their coefficient
> > of friction.
>
> These guys would be rich if they had such a product. There are no
> mystery potions in friction and wear although many believe Teflon is
> one. I have been towed behind a car on ordinary shoes on a fine layer
> of snow, and it looked much like these guys. I don't know where this
> was done but just because the middle east has hot weather, remember
> that deserts are also freezing cold in winter.
>
Sorry, I don't get your drift. For a short run of around 10 seconds, a bit of grease or oil on the soles of the
sneakers would be sufficient to alter their coefficient of friction with the road. Alternately, if a hard relatively
low-friction material was added/glued/nailed to the soles of the shoes, or 12 mm balls were jammed into the grooves in
the tread, you could achieve the same result. I don't think the video clip is sufficiently detailed to guarantee that
one of these options did not occur.

Mike

 

[[email protected]]

Mike Fee writes:

>>>>> I wonder if the sandal skaters aren't also putting quite a lot
>>>>> of their weight on the car door rather than on the road. That
>>>>> would help quite a bit.

>>>> I was thinking this to begin with as well. Growing up in the
>>>> 'burbs, some friends and I often "sneaker skated" or "sketched"
>>>> off of each others vehicles, be it from the doors or (the much
>>>> preferred) from the tailgate of a pickup. The trick was keeping
>>>> a good chunk of your weight off of your feet, and switching which
>>>> foot was load bearing often. After watching the videos and
>>>> seeing the extremes these guys took it to, I decided these guys
>>>> were WAY out of our league and was not going to mention my
>>>> childhood antics until I saw your post.

>>>> Another "trick" that I've seen plenty of is "skating" on the
>>>> motorcycles. It's actually really easy to dig in your heels and
>>>> lift yourself off of the bike while driving down most roads, but
>>>> I wouldn't do it for an extreme amount of time. Also, many
>>>> tricksters have throttle locks on their crotch rockets, and they
>>>> can be seen towing themselves down the street behind their empty
>>>> bike. See:

http://tinyurl.com/2hqxnv (full link

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2)

>>>> While this does not account for the bike drifting, it does show
>>>> that it's possible to skate on one's footwear on US roads as
>>>> well.

>>> But consider, as an alternate option, that the soles of the
>>> sneakers have been somehow adapted to significantly reduce their
>>> coefficient of friction.

>> These guys would be rich if they had such a product. There are no
>> mystery potions in friction and wear although many believe Teflon
>> is one. I have been towed behind a car on ordinary shoes on a fine
>> layer of snow, and it looked much like these guys. I don't know
>> where this was done but just because the middle east has hot
>> weather, remember that deserts are also freezing cold in winter.

> Sorry, I don't get your drift. For a short run of around 10
> seconds, a bit of grease or oil on the soles of the sneakers would
> be sufficient to alter their coefficient of friction with the road.
> Alternately, if a hard relatively low-friction material was
> added/glued/nailed to the soles of the shoes, or 12 mm balls were
> jammed into the grooves in the tread, you could achieve the same
> result. I don't think the video clip is sufficiently detailed to
> guarantee that one of these options did not occur.

I'm sure you have never tried to skid a pair of rubber soles shoes on
pavement with anything like what you suggest. Unless the entire road
is covered in lubricant, the shoe will not slide more than one shoe
length. Your ball bearing scenario is completely imagination.
Besides, these guys are stepping on and off the road at a fairly good
speed.

I don't understand why you have such belief in impossible scenarios
when a far simpler one exists. So they had a frosty morning and were
amazed what they could do with it, taking videos for people who could
not imagine it.

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

Carl Fogel writes:

>> I'm still not finding this ice theory remotely convincing though.

> It isn't a plausible theory for the car-skaters on the Riyadh
> highway, nor for numerous other videos showing cars, skaters, and
> bicycles drifting down sunny Arabian roads.

> The temperature hasn't dropped to freezing in Riyadh during this
> century:

> http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

> Lowest temp for January 2007 was 34F, average daily low was 45F.
> Lowest temp for January 2006 was 39F, average daily low was 49F.
> Lowest temp for January 2005 was 35F, average daily low was 48F.
> no data 2004
> Lowest temp for January 2003 was 39F, average daily low was 47F.
> Lowest temp for January 2002 was 39F, average daily low was 50F.
> Lowest temp for January 2001 was 35F, average daily low was 46F.
> Lowest temp for January 2000 was 42F, average daily low was 49F.

> The 2004 data table mistakenly puts the monthly average into the
> maximum and minimum columns.

You may have heard that many orange groves are protected from freezing
by giant fans that circulate air through th eorchard. The reason this
works is that on a clear night radiant cooling chills objects near the
ground (in still air) below freezing even though air temperature is
significantly higher. This is what causes moisture to condense on
plants and freeze, fans in fruit orcards prevent local cooling that,
for instance, puts white frost on peoples lawns. This could easily be
such an event.

http://www.maf.govt.nz/mafnet/publications/rmupdate/rm6/rm6002.html

In the days of yore, you may recall smudge-pots that obscured the cold
of outer space from the orchard:

http://physics.uwstout.edu/deptpages/physqz/smudge.htm

Jobst Brandt

 

[[email protected]]

On 10 Jan 2008 02:42:23 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>Carl Fogel writes:
>
>>> I'm still not finding this ice theory remotely convincing though.
>
>> It isn't a plausible theory for the car-skaters on the Riyadh
>> highway, nor for numerous other videos showing cars, skaters, and
>> bicycles drifting down sunny Arabian roads.
>
>> The temperature hasn't dropped to freezing in Riyadh during this
>> century:
>
>> http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
>
>> Lowest temp for January 2007 was 34F, average daily low was 45F.
>> Lowest temp for January 2006 was 39F, average daily low was 49F.
>> Lowest temp for January 2005 was 35F, average daily low was 48F.
>> no data 2004
>> Lowest temp for January 2003 was 39F, average daily low was 47F.
>> Lowest temp for January 2002 was 39F, average daily low was 50F.
>> Lowest temp for January 2001 was 35F, average daily low was 46F.
>> Lowest temp for January 2000 was 42F, average daily low was 49F.
>
>> The 2004 data table mistakenly puts the monthly average into the
>> maximum and minimum columns.
>
>You may have heard that many orange groves are protected from freezing
>by giant fans that circulate air through th eorchard. The reason this
>works is that on a clear night radiant cooling chills objects near the
>ground (in still air) below freezing even though air temperature is
>significantly higher. This is what causes moisture to condense on
>plants and freeze, fans in fruit orcards prevent local cooling that,
>for instance, puts white frost on peoples lawns. This could easily be
>such an event.
>
> http://www.maf.govt.nz/mafnet/publications/rmupdate/rm6/rm6002.html
>
>In the days of yore, you may recall smudge-pots that obscured the cold
>of outer space from the orchard:
>
>http://physics.uwstout.edu/deptpages/physqz/smudge.htm
>
>Jobst Brandt

Dear Jobst,

Yes, I have heard of those things. They obviously don't apply. There
is no frost on the main highway through Riyadh, no flooded orange
groves, no smudge pots. It's just fine sand.

The car skaters are sliding along in broad daylight on a busy highway
through a city that hasn't seen 32F for even a single day this
century:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdZl2BpDAc

Look at video after video of Arab cars drifting on sunny days as if on
ice on roads with sand on both sides:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=drift+arab

These are obviously regular events, held with large crowds, not once
in a century frosts.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
Mike <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > Mike Fee writes:
> >
> > >>> I wonder if the sandal skaters aren't also putting quite a lot of
> > >>> their weight on the car door rather than on the road. That would
> > >>> help quite a bit.
> >
> > >> I was thinking this to begin with as well. Growing up in the
> > >> 'burbs, some friends and I often "sneaker skated" or "sketched" off
> > >> of each others vehicles, be it from the doors or (the much
> > >> preferred) from the tailgate of a pickup. The trick was keeping a
> > >> good chunk of your weight off of your feet, and switching which
> > >> foot was load bearing often. After watching the videos and seeing
> > >> the extremes these guys took it to, I decided these guys were WAY
> > >> out of our league and was not going to mention my childhood antics
> > >> until I saw your post.
> >
> > >> Another "trick" that I've seen plenty of is "skating" on the
> > >> motorcycles. It's actually really easy to dig in your heels and
> > >> lift yourself off of the bike while driving down most roads, but I
> > >> wouldn't do it for an extreme amount of time. Also, many
> > >> tricksters have throttle locks on their crotch rockets, and they
> > >> can be seen towing themselves down the street behind their empty
> > >> bike. See:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/2hqxnv (full link
> >
> > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4422730453398688990&q=sneakers+mot
> > orcycle&total=13&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2)
> >
> > >> While this does not account for the bike drifting, it does show
> > >> that it's possible to skate on one's footwear on US roads as well.
> >
> > > But consider, as an alternate option, that the soles of the sneakers
> > > have been somehow adapted to significantly reduce their coefficient
> > > of friction.
> >
> > These guys would be rich if they had such a product. There are no
> > mystery potions in friction and wear although many believe Teflon is
> > one. I have been towed behind a car on ordinary shoes on a fine layer
> > of snow, and it looked much like these guys. I don't know where this
> > was done but just because the middle east has hot weather, remember
> > that deserts are also freezing cold in winter.
> >
> Sorry, I don't get your drift. For a short run of around 10 seconds, a bit of
> grease or oil on the soles of the
> sneakers would be sufficient to alter their coefficient of friction with the
> road. Alternately, if a hard relatively
> low-friction material was added/glued/nailed to the soles of the shoes, or 12
> mm balls were jammed into the grooves in
> the tread, you could achieve the same result. I don't think the video clip is
> sufficiently detailed to guarantee that
> one of these options did not occur.
>
> Mike

I doubt it's what's happening here, but steel-soled (yes, sole) shoes
are used in flat-track (dirt) motorcycle racing for the inside foot.
This is probably a bit for wear, a bit for friction.

http://www.bumblebee77.com/Ken Maeley Hot Shoe.JPG

The technique is not so much controversial as debatable: in theory you
can reduce a little bit of the cornering load on the tires by adding
your foot as a third support point or to catch a momentary bobble, but
some of the fastest riders go through corners with both feet on the pegs.

http://www.amaflattrack.com/

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

 

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:37:28 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I doubt it's what's happening here, but steel-soled (yes, sole) shoes
>are used in flat-track (dirt) motorcycle racing for the inside foot.
>This is probably a bit for wear, a bit for friction.
>
>http://www.bumblebee77.com/Ken Maeley Hot Shoe.JPG
>
>The technique is not so much controversial as debatable: in theory you
>can reduce a little bit of the cornering load on the tires by adding
>your foot as a third support point or to catch a momentary bobble, but
>some of the fastest riders go through corners with both feet on the pegs.
>
>http://www.amaflattrack.com/

Dear Ryan,

They're just recovering trials riders.



Off-road, riders often put the inside foot down--see any motocross.

The best place for foot-down power-sliding is the speedway, where the
machines are designed for that, right down to the short-on-the-right
handlebar that wiki fails to mention:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_speedway

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

 

[[email protected]]

On Jan 10, 1:23 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:37:28 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >I doubt it's what's happening here, but steel-soled (yes, sole) shoes
> >are used in flat-track (dirt) motorcycle racing for the inside foot.
> >This is probably a bit for wear, a bit for friction.
>
> >http://www.bumblebee77.com/Ken Maeley Hot Shoe.JPG
>
> >The technique is not so much controversial as debatable: in theory you
> >can reduce a little bit of the cornering load on the tires by adding
> >your foot as a third support point or to catch a momentary bobble, but
> >some of the fastest riders go through corners with both feet on the pegs.
>
> >http://www.amaflattrack.com/
>
> Dear Ryan,
>
> They're just recovering trials riders.
>
>
>
> Off-road, riders often put the inside foot down--see any motocross.
>
> The best place for foot-down power-sliding is the speedway, where the
> machines are designed for that, right down to the short-on-the-right
> handlebar that wiki fails to mention:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_speedway
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

Foot down on a speedway? Having read a book or two on motorcycle
racing, I don't recall hearing of putting a foot down. Isn't it more
common to put the knee down, allowing the bike to achieve a greater
lean, hence the market for things like knee pucks?
It's my understanding that the knee is sometimes used to help support
the bike, but other times is only used to help gauge the angle of the
lean and just how close the bike is to leaning too far and planting
some other part of the bike down, lifting the rear wheel off of the
ground and causing a crash.

 

[dabac]

Foot down on a speedway?

Not on a speedway. but during the specific motorcycle discipline speedway. Another beast entirely, and very much proper technique.

 

[[email protected]]

On Jan 10, 2:21 pm, dabac <dabac.32z...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> [email protected] Wrote:
>
>
>
> > Foot down on a speedway?  
>
> Not *on* a speedway. but *during* the specific motorcycle discipline
> speedway. Another beast entirely, and very much proper technique.
>
> --
> dabac

Ah... gotcha. Thanks!

 

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 11:55:30 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Jan 10, 2:21 pm, dabac <dabac.32z...@no-
>mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>> [email protected] Wrote:
>>
>> > Foot down on a speedway?  
>>
>> Not *on* a speedway. but *during* the specific motorcycle discipline
>> speedway. Another beast entirely, and very much proper technique.
>>
>> --
>> dabac
>
>Ah... gotcha. Thanks!

Dear Dank,

Example of foot-down speedway technique:
http://www.speedwaybikes.com/re/images/99747_19.jpg

Rear view of foot-down in speedway racing:
http://www.speedwaybikes.com/video/images/video_p.jpg

View from inside the corner:
http://www.speedwaybikes.com/gallery/images/turn1i.jpg
http://www.speedwaybikes.com/gallery/images/byebyei.jpg

And here's what you may be thinking of, the rarer knee-down:
http://www.speedwaybikes.com/gallery/images/ryan1i.jpg

Lots of speedway racing photos:
http://www.speedwaybikes.com/gallery/index.htm

Small videos:
http://www.speedwaybikes.com/video/index.htm

This video is slow-motion, which makes it possible to see what's
happening:
http://www.speedwaybikes.com/video/images/bob_lac.avi

Cheers,

Carl Fogel