Bicycle Fit Checks - Worth the $$?

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Mike, Feb 15, 2004.

  1. Mike

    Mike Guest

    I am searching for a new road bike and I am looking for advice on fit checks/measurements. I have
    heard a range of things from a minimum of a quick visual check to limited measurements to an extreme
    of paying $75 for a two hour fitting.

    Is it worth paying this type of money for fittings? What questions should I be asking about their
    measurements/techniques?

    From what I have researched, the key measurements are : frame size, seat height, seat location
    (front/back) and handlebar to seat height difference.

    Thanks Mike
     
    Tags:


  2. > I am searching for a new road bike and I am looking for advice on fit checks/measurements. I have
    > heard a range of things from a minimum of a quick visual check to limited measurements to an
    > extreme of paying $75 for a two hour fitting.
    >
    > Is it worth paying this type of money for fittings? What questions should I be asking about their
    > measurements/techniques?

    $75 for two hours of fitting consultation from somebody who knows what they're doing is hardly
    extreme; that would qualify as one of the great buys in my book! That's not to say it's required
    though; many shops do an excellent job of fitting as part of the sale of the bike.

    > From what I have researched, the key measurements are : frame size, seat height, seat location
    > (front/back) and handlebar to seat height difference.

    Those might be the key measurements, but they're meaningless without context. Well, not exactly
    meaningless, as they represent a starting point for the fit process. Anybody who tells you that
    measurements alone are the answer doesn't have a clue in the world about being comfortable on a
    bike. They might know something about how *they* ride, but this is about *you.*

    Another thing to keep in mind is that even the best fit person in the world isn't going to be able
    to anticipate everything. Fit is, in many cases, dynamic, and a proper fit sometimes takes a
    number of readjustments over time. Make sure wherever you go that they aren't going to run away
    from you later on.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am searching for a new road bike and I am looking for advice on fit checks/measurements. I have
    > heard a range of things from a minimum of a quick visual check to limited measurements to an
    > extreme of paying $75 for a two hour fitting.
    >
    > Is it worth paying this type of money for fittings? What questions should I be asking about their
    > measurements/techniques?
    >
    > From what I have researched, the key measurements are : frame size, seat height, seat location
    > (front/back) and handlebar to seat height difference.
    >
    > Thanks Mike
     
  3. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On 15 Feb 2004 20:41:46 -0800, [email protected] (Mike) wrote in
    message <dc53077[email protected]>:

    >I am searching for a new road bike and I am looking for advice on fit checks/measurements. I have
    >heard a range of things from a minimum of a quick visual check to limited measurements to an
    >extreme of paying $75 for a two hour fitting.

    >Is it worth paying this type of money for fittings? What questions should I be asking about their
    >measurements/techniques?

    It entirely depends how much you're going to pay for the bike, or whether (like my LBS) they give
    you the money back if you buy.

    I think the computerised bike fit systems in decent road bike shops are well worth the money. A
    proper fitting from someone who knows what they are doing is even better. If the bike is going to
    cost $2,000 or more it's a no-brainer.

    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at the University of Washington.
     
  4. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I am searching for a new road bike and I am looking for advice on fit checks/measurements. I have
    > heard a range of things from a minimum of a quick visual check to limited measurements to an
    > extreme of paying $75 for a two hour fitting.
    >
    > Is it worth paying this type of money for fittings? What questions should I be asking about their
    > measurements/techniques?
    >
    > From what I have researched, the key measurements are : frame size, seat height, seat location
    > (front/back) and handlebar to seat height difference.

    I'm very skeptical about bike fittings. Most of the parameters boil down to individual preference.
    It would be great to have a completely adjustable bike that you could actually ride around on, but
    even that wouldn't tell you how it would feel after a few hours. Besides, from what I've seen, most
    shops sell bikes that are poorly suited to the rider's needs, fit is usually tweakable after sale,
    models are not. You'd be much better off spending an extra $75 for a sales-droid with a clue.
     
  5. > I think the computerised bike fit systems in decent road bike shops are well worth the money. A
    > proper fitting from someone who knows what they are doing is even better. If the bike is going to
    > cost $2,000 or more it's a no-brainer.

    The usefulness and joy of a bike doesn't come from its price, but rather from how fun it is to ride.
    Why should somebody take advantage of being properly fit on a $2000 bike and not a $600 one? If we,
    as an industry, did a better job of fitting people to $600 bikes, they'd spend a *lot* more time out
    on the road, a lot less time in the garage, and, in the end, we'd sell a lot more $2000 bikes.

    It's reasonable to expect a more detailed, finely-tuned fitting on somebody who has ridden a road
    bike extensively already, compared to somebody new to the concept (because it's going to take a
    while for the new rider to recognize what makes for a more comfortable ride, and to accomplish that
    leap-of-faith required to believe that a skinnier saddle and road-type bars can do that). But it's
    not reasonable to think that the $600 bike doesn't benefit as much, and possibly even more so, from
    being fit properly to the rider.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On 15 Feb 2004 20:41:46 -0800, [email protected] (Mike) wrote in message
    > <[email protected]>:
    >
    > >I am searching for a new road bike and I am looking for advice on fit checks/measurements. I have
    > >heard a range of things from a minimum of a quick visual check to limited measurements to an
    > >extreme of paying $75 for a two hour fitting.
    >
    > >Is it worth paying this type of money for fittings? What questions should I be asking about their
    > >measurements/techniques?
    >
    > It entirely depends how much you're going to pay for the bike, or whether (like my LBS) they give
    > you the money back if you buy.
    >
    > I think the computerised bike fit systems in decent road bike shops are well worth the money. A
    > proper fitting from someone who knows what they are doing is even better. If the bike is going to
    > cost $2,000 or more it's a no-brainer.
    >
    > Guy
    > ===
    > May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    > http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
    >
    > 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at the University of
    Washington.
     
  6. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:37:30 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction
    Bicycles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    <[email protected]>:

    >The usefulness and joy of a bike doesn't come from its price, but rather from how fun it is to
    >ride. Why should somebody take advantage of being properly fit on a $2000 bike and not a $600
    >one? If we, as an industry, did a better job of fitting people to $600 bikes, they'd spend a
    >*lot* more time out on the road, a lot less time in the garage, and, in the end, we'd sell a lot
    >more $2000 bikes.

    Would you spend 20% of the cost of the bike getting it fitted? In my LBS it's not an issue, you get
    the money back if you buy a bike.

    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
     
  7. > Would you spend 20% of the cost of the bike getting it fitted? In my LBS it's not an issue, you
    > get the money back if you buy a bike.

    If it made the difference between a bike that was fun to ride and one that wasn't, it might be worth
    it. But it's academic for the most part; the fittings we do are part of the service we offer with
    bikes we sell, regardless of price. Even a $500 TREK 1000 customer doesn't leave the door without
    being properly fit (which means, at minimum, the various common measurements, along with checking
    out his/her position on the bike afterward, looking for indications that something might need
    further adjustment).

    The biggest mistake comes when people make the purchase of that first road bike. The better shops
    essentially subsidize that purchase, by putting in more time & effort making sure everything is just
    right than makes sense economically. But it's worth it, because if we can get people hooked on
    cycling, they come back for more and more and more. Jerseys, shorts, helmets, shoes, computers,
    racks, seat bags, tools, pumps... The shop that just pushes a bike across the counter and
    congratulates themselves on making a sale is a sad place, because not only is the shop losing out on
    a continuing revenue stream, but the customer is losing out because they may very well add cycling
    to that long list of things they spent a bunch of money on but didn't work out.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:37:30 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles"
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message <[email protected]>:
    >
    > >The usefulness and joy of a bike doesn't come from its price, but rather from how fun it is to
    > >ride. Why should somebody take advantage of being properly fit on a $2000 bike and not a $600
    > >one? If we, as an industry,
    did
    > >a better job of fitting people to $600 bikes, they'd spend a *lot* more
    time
    > >out on the road, a lot less time in the garage, and, in the end, we'd
    sell a
    > >lot more $2000 bikes.
    >
    > Would you spend 20% of the cost of the bike getting it fitted? In my LBS it's not an issue, you
    > get the money back if you buy a bike.
    >
    > Guy
    > ===
    > May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    > http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
    >
    > 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
     
  8. Mike

    Mike Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Would you spend 20% of the cost of the bike getting it fitted? In my LBS it's not an issue, you
    > > get the money back if you buy a bike.
    >
    > If it made the difference between a bike that was fun to ride and one that wasn't, it might be
    > worth it. But it's academic for the most part; the fittings we do are part of the service we offer
    > with bikes we sell, regardless of price. Even a $500 TREK 1000 customer doesn't leave the door
    > without being properly fit (which means, at minimum, the various common measurements, along with
    > checking out his/her position on the bike afterward, looking for indications that something might
    > need further adjustment).
    >
    > The biggest mistake comes when people make the purchase of that first road bike. The better shops
    > essentially subsidize that purchase, by putting in more time & effort making sure everything is
    > just right than makes sense economically. But it's worth it, because if we can get people hooked
    > on cycling, they come back for more and more and more. Jerseys, shorts, helmets, shoes, computers,
    > racks, seat bags, tools, pumps... The shop that just pushes a bike across the counter and
    > congratulates themselves on making a sale is a sad place, because not only is the shop losing out
    > on a continuing revenue stream, but the customer is losing out because they may very well add
    > cycling to that long list of things they spent a bunch of money on but didn't work out.

    Mike - I agree with you - that is part of the reason for my question. When I bought my first road
    bike 10 years ago, I paid $400 for it but got a 1/2 hr fitting with a bunch of measurements just
    like the guy that bought a $2000 bike. Unfortunately, the person doing the fit was a bike racer and
    didn't take the time to understand how I was going to ride the bike and set everything up for racing
    - I think that's part of the reason that I hated my old bike so much and eventually gave up riding
    for a number of years...

    Now, I am looking at a $1500 - $2000 bike and was suprised that they want to charge me an additional
    $75 - $100 for a fitting at some places. Their contention is that the shops that aren't charging are
    not doing a proper fit. That is what drove one of my other questions
    - is there a basic set of measurements that should be done that I could ask each of the shops to see
    if they are doing an apples to apples fit?

    Thanks
     
  9. Ken

    Ken Guest

    [email protected] (Mike) wrote in
    news:[email protected]:
    > - is there a basic set of measurements that should be done that I could ask each of the shops to
    > see if they are doing an apples to apples fit?

    You can find a basic fit calculator at http://www.competitivecyclist.com/ This should give you a
    starting point, if you're really careful about taking your measurements. Some things like saddle
    tilt and handlebar height are mostly a personal preference issue. Other things like cleat position
    need to be evaluated on-the-bike.
     
  10. On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:56:05 +0000, Ken <[email protected]> wrote:

    >[email protected] (Mike) wrote in news:[email protected]:
    >> - is there a basic set of measurements that should be done that I could ask each of the shops to
    >> see if they are doing an apples to apples fit?
    >
    >You can find a basic fit calculator at http://www.competitivecyclist.com/ This should give you a
    >starting point, if you're really careful about taking your measurements. Some things like saddle
    >tilt and handlebar height are mostly a personal preference issue. Other things like cleat position
    >need to be evaluated on-the-bike.

    competitive cyclists have different fit concerns than guys who want to go for a spin in the
    countryside. Humans are bewilderingly diverse in their shapes of their bodies and their agendas--you
    wouldn't size a grandmother who was new to cycling the same way you'd size a Cat 1 amateur racer,
    would you?

    All the money in the world spent on having a bicycle fitted to you is wasted if you don't
    participate in the process-and that means knowing immediately what's not comfortable, and
    telling the 'expert' that....After all, it is *you* who's going to be sitting in the saddle, not
    the bike-fitter.

    -Luigi www.livejournal.com/users/ouij Photos, rants, raves
     
  11. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:08:18 -0500, Luigi de Guzman
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >that means knowing immediately what's not comfortable, and telling the 'expert' that.

    That is very important, and even more difficult. Doubly so on both for riders not experienced with
    fitting themselves on similar bikes.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  12. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > > I am searching for a new road bike and I am looking for advice on fit checks/measurements. I
    > > have heard a range of things from a minimum of a quick visual check to limited measurements to
    > > an extreme of paying $75 for a two hour fitting.
    > >
    > > Is it worth paying this type of money for fittings? What questions should I be asking about
    > > their measurements/techniques?
    >
    > $75 for two hours of fitting consultation from somebody who knows what they're doing is hardly
    > extreme; that would qualify as one of the great
    buys
    > in my book! That's not to say it's required though; many shops do an excellent job of fitting as
    > part of the sale of the bike.
    >
    > > From what I have researched, the key measurements are : frame size, seat height, seat location
    > > (front/back) and handlebar to seat height difference.
    >
    > Those might be the key measurements, but they're meaningless without context. Well, not exactly
    > meaningless, as they represent a starting
    point
    > for the fit process. Anybody who tells you that measurements alone are
    the
    > answer doesn't have a clue in the world about being comfortable on a bike. They might know
    > something about how *they* ride, but this is about *you.*
    >
    > Another thing to keep in mind is that even the best fit person in the
    world
    > isn't going to be able to anticipate everything. Fit is, in many cases, dynamic, and a proper fit
    > sometimes takes a number of readjustments over time. Make sure wherever you go that they aren't
    > going to run away from
    you
    > later on.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >
    >
    > "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > I am searching for a new road bike and I am looking for advice on fit checks/measurements. I
    > > have heard a range of things from a minimum of a quick visual check to limited measurements to
    > > an extreme of paying $75 for a two hour fitting.
    > >
    > > Is it worth paying this type of money for fittings? What questions should I be asking about
    > > their measurements/techniques?
    > >
    > > From what I have researched, the key measurements are : frame size, seat height, seat location
    > > (front/back) and handlebar to seat height difference.

    If you ride a bike for 40 miles that doesn't fit right you'll think that $75 is cheap city. On the
    other hand you can pay good money for poor advice. The FitKit used to be used by idiot bicycle shops
    that didn't know how to fit anyone to anything and the results with the FitKit weren't perceptibly
    better than without.

    I would suggest going to a bike shop that's been around for awhile and being fit by someone that
    knows what he's doing. That's a hell of a lot easier to say than to do.

    I tried all of the fitting information and could never get a bicycle to fit properly. I walked into
    an old shop and asked if he had a bike in my size and he took a hard look at me and built one up.
    He took exactly one measurement - the distance from the point on my elbow to the center of the
    wrist joint.

    I've used the measurements of the bike he gave me ever since that day over 14 years ago and on two
    dozen bikes and to get the same fit usually doesn't require changing his hard look measurements by
    more than 1/2" in any way.

    So it is hard to say you need a bunch of measurements but equally hard to say you don't.
     
  13. Sam Yorko

    Sam Yorko Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:
    >>Would you spend 20% of the cost of the bike getting it
    >>fitted? In my LBS it's not an issue, you get the money
    >>back if you buy a bike.
    >
    >
    > If it made the difference between a bike that was fun to
    > ride and one that wasn't, it might be worth it. But it's
    > academic for the most part; the fittings we do are part of
    > the service we offer with bikes we sell, regardless of
    > price. Even a $500 TREK 1000 customer doesn't leave the
    > door without being properly fit (which means, at minimum,
    > the various common measurements, along with checking out
    > his/her position on the bike afterward, looking for
    > indications that something might need further adjustment).
    >
    > The biggest mistake comes when people make the purchase of
    > that first road bike. The better shops essentially
    > subsidize that purchase, by putting in more time & effort
    > making sure everything is just right than makes sense
    > economically. But it's worth it, because if we can get
    > people hooked on cycling, they come back for more and more
    > and more. Jerseys, shorts, helmets, shoes, computers,
    > racks, seat bags, tools, pumps... The shop that just
    > pushes a bike across the counter and congratulates
    > themselves on making a sale is a sad place, because not
    > only is the shop losing out on a continuing revenue
    > stream, but the customer is losing out because they may
    > very well add cycling to that long list of things they
    > spent a bunch of money on but didn't work out.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >
    > "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]>
    > wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:37:30 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain
    >>Reaction Bicycles" <[email protected]> wrote in
    >>message <[email protected]>:
    >>
    >>
    >>>The usefulness and joy of a bike doesn't come from its
    >>>price, but rather
    >>
    >>>from how fun it is to ride. Why should somebody take
    >>>advantage of being
    >>
    >>>properly fit on a $2000 bike and not a $600 one? If we,
    >>>as an industry,
    >
    > did
    >
    >>>a better job of fitting people to $600 bikes, they'd
    >>>spend a *lot* more
    >
    > time
    >
    >>>out on the road, a lot less time in the garage, and, in
    >>>the end, we'd
    >
    > sell a
    >
    >>>lot more $2000 bikes.
    >>
    >>Would you spend 20% of the cost of the bike getting it
    >>fitted? In my LBS it's not an issue, you get the money
    >>back if you buy a bike.
    >>
    >>Guy
    >>===
    >>May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle
    >>after posting. http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
    >>
    >>88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    >>Washington University
    >
    >
    >

    I'll second this post (a bit late, but hey!)

    I just bought a new bike (hardtail mountain for road and
    trail use) from a shop that had the reputation as being
    reputable, and it appears that the reputation was justified.
    I've been back twice now for adjustments, and I'm about to
    head on in again (I'm 50 pounds overweight and hunched up to
    boot, and my hands are getting numb on a 15 mile ride; I
    think I need the handlebars up even higher than where we
    have them at).

    I suspect that the shop has lost money on the bike sale to
    me (it was a 2003 discounted), but the amount of money
    I've dropped for accessories has (I hope) more than made
    up for it.

    Sam
     
  14. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    > Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:
    > >>Would you spend 20% of the cost of the bike getting it
    > >>fitted? In my LBS it's not an issue, you get the money
    > >>back if you buy a bike.
    > >
    > >
    > > If it made the difference between a bike that was fun to
    > > ride and one that wasn't, it might be worth it. But it's
    > > academic for the most part; the fittings we do are part
    > > of the service we offer with bikes we sell, regardless
    > > of price. Even a $500 TREK 1000 customer doesn't leave
    > > the door without being properly fit (which means, at
    > > minimum, the various common measurements, along with
    > > checking out his/her position on the bike afterward,
    > > looking for indications that something might need
    > > further adjustment).
    > >
    > > The biggest mistake comes when people make the purchase
    > > of that first road bike. The better shops essentially
    > > subsidize that purchase, by putting in more time &
    > > effort making sure everything is just right than makes
    > > sense economically. But it's worth it, because if we can
    > > get people hooked on cycling, they come back for more
    > > and more and more. Jerseys, shorts, helmets, shoes,
    > > computers, racks, seat bags, tools, pumps... The shop
    > > that just pushes a bike across the counter and
    > > congratulates themselves on making a sale is a sad
    > > place, because not only is the shop losing out on a
    > > continuing revenue stream, but the customer is losing
    > > out because they may very well add cycling to that long
    > > list of things they spent a bunch of money on but didn't
    > > work out.
    > >
    > > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    > >
    > > "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]>
    > > wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >>On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:37:30 GMT, "Mike
    > >>Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles"
    > >><[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >><[email protected]>:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>The usefulness and joy of a bike doesn't come from its
    > >>>price, but rather
    > >>
    > >>>from how fun it is to ride. Why should somebody take
    > >>>advantage of being
    > >>
    > >>>properly fit on a $2000 bike and not a $600 one? If we,
    > >>>as an industry,
    > >
    > > did
    > >
    > >>>a better job of fitting people to $600 bikes, they'd
    > >>>spend a *lot* more
    > >
    > > time
    > >
    > >>>out on the road, a lot less time in the garage, and, in
    > >>>the end, we'd
    > >
    > > sell a
    > >
    > >>>lot more $2000 bikes.
    > >>
    > >>Would you spend 20% of the cost of the bike getting it
    > >>fitted? In my LBS it's not an issue, you get the money
    > >>back if you buy a bike.
    > >>
    > >>Guy
    > >>===
    > >>May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle
    > >>after posting. http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
    > >>
    > >>88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    > >>Washington University
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    > I'll second this post (a bit late, but hey!)
    >
    > I just bought a new bike (hardtail mountain for road and
    > trail use) from a shop that had the reputation as being
    > reputable, and it appears that the reputation was
    > justified. I've been back twice now for adjustments, and
    > I'm about to head on in again (I'm 50 pounds overweight
    > and hunched up to boot, and my hands are getting numb on a
    > 15 mile ride; I think I need the handlebars up even higher
    > than where we have them at).

    Wouldn't it be even easier if you did that yourself?
    Then you could try a lot more different settings in a
    lot less time.

    > I suspect that the shop has lost money on the bike sale to
    > me (it was a 2003 discounted), but the amount of money
    > I've dropped for accessories has (I hope) more than made
    > up for it.

    That's the way it usually works <Grin>.

    --
    Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return
    address before replying!

    REAL programmers write self-modifying code.
     
  15. Sam Yorko

    Sam Yorko Guest

    David Kerber wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] says...
    >
    >>Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles wrote:
    >>
    >>>>Would you spend 20% of the cost of the bike getting it
    >>>>fitted? In my LBS it's not an issue, you get the money
    >>>>back if you buy a bike.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>If it made the difference between a bike that was fun to
    >>>ride and one that wasn't, it might be worth it. But it's
    >>>academic for the most part; the fittings we do are part
    >>>of the service we offer with bikes we sell, regardless of
    >>>price. Even a $500 TREK 1000 customer doesn't leave the
    >>>door without being properly fit (which means, at minimum,
    >>>the various common measurements, along with checking out
    >>>his/her position on the bike afterward, looking for
    >>>indications that something might need further
    >>>adjustment).
    >>>
    >>>The biggest mistake comes when people make the purchase
    >>>of that first road bike. The better shops essentially
    >>>subsidize that purchase, by putting in more time &
    >>>effort making sure everything is just right than makes
    >>>sense economically. But it's worth it, because if we can
    >>>get people hooked on cycling, they come back for more
    >>>and more and more. Jerseys, shorts, helmets, shoes,
    >>>computers, racks, seat bags, tools, pumps... The shop
    >>>that just pushes a bike across the counter and
    >>>congratulates themselves on making a sale is a sad
    >>>place, because not only is the shop losing out on a
    >>>continuing revenue stream, but the customer is losing
    >>>out because they may very well add cycling to that long
    >>>list of things they spent a bunch of money on but didn't
    >>>work out.
    >>>
    >>>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    >>>
    >>>"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]>
    >>>wrote in message
    >>>news:[email protected]...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:37:30 GMT, "Mike
    >>>>Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles"
    >>>><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>>><[email protected]digy.com>:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>The usefulness and joy of a bike doesn't come from its
    >>>>>price, but rather
    >>>>
    >>>>>from how fun it is to ride. Why should somebody take
    >>>>>advantage of being
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>properly fit on a $2000 bike and not a $600 one? If we,
    >>>>>as an industry,
    >>>
    >>>did
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>a better job of fitting people to $600 bikes, they'd
    >>>>>spend a *lot* more
    >>>
    >>>time
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>out on the road, a lot less time in the garage, and, in
    >>>>>the end, we'd
    >>>
    >>>sell a
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>lot more $2000 bikes.
    >>>>
    >>>>Would you spend 20% of the cost of the bike getting it
    >>>>fitted? In my LBS it's not an issue, you get the money
    >>>>back if you buy a bike.
    >>>>
    >>>>Guy
    >>>>===
    >>>>May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle
    >>>>after posting. http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
    >>>>
    >>>>88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
    >>>>Washington University
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>I'll second this post (a bit late, but hey!)
    >>
    >>I just bought a new bike (hardtail mountain for road and
    >>trail use) from a shop that had the reputation as being
    >>reputable, and it appears that the reputation was
    >>justified. I've been back twice now for adjustments, and
    >>I'm about to head on in again (I'm 50 pounds overweight
    >>and hunched up to boot, and my hands are getting numb on a
    >>15 mile ride; I think I need the handlebars up even higher
    >>than where we have them at).
    >
    >
    > Wouldn't it be even easier if you did that yourself?
    > Then you could try a lot more different settings in a
    > lot less time.
    >
    >
    >
    >>I suspect that the shop has lost money on the bike sale to
    >>me (it was a 2003 discounted), but the amount of money
    >>I've dropped for accessories has (I hope) more than made
    >>up for it.
    >
    >
    > That's the way it usually works <Grin>.
    >

    With my previous bike, raising handlebars was trivial with a
    quill stem (although the bike shop let me know that I had
    exceeded the maximum extension), but with this new bike, it
    means new handlebars, new stems, or a stem riser, none of
    which I have.
     
  16. David Kerber

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    > >>I just bought a new bike (hardtail mountain for road and
    > >>trail use) from a shop that had the reputation as being
    > >>reputable, and it appears that the reputation was
    > >>justified. I've been back twice now for adjustments, and
    > >>I'm about to head on in again (I'm 50 pounds overweight
    > >>and hunched up to boot, and my hands are getting numb on
    > >>a 15 mile ride; I think I need the handlebars up even
    > >>higher than where we have them at).
    > >
    > >
    > > Wouldn't it be even easier if you did that yourself?
    > > Then you could try a lot more different settings in a
    > > lot less time.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >>I suspect that the shop has lost money on the bike sale
    > >>to me (it was a 2003 discounted), but the amount of
    > >>money I've dropped for accessories has (I hope) more
    > >>than made up for it.
    > >
    > >
    > > That's the way it usually works <Grin>.
    > >
    >
    > With my previous bike, raising handlebars was trivial with
    > a quill stem (although the bike shop let me know that I
    > had exceeded the maximum extension), but with this new
    > bike, it means new handlebars, new stems, or a stem riser,
    > none of which I have.

    That's one of the major disadvantages of the modern
    "improved(?)" bike technology.

    --
    Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
    the newsgroups if possible).
     
  17. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 19:25:28 -0800, Sam Yorko
    <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>need the handlebars up even higher than where we have
    >>>them at).
    >>
    >> Wouldn't it be even easier if you did that yourself?
    >> Then you could try a lot more different settings in a
    >> lot less time.
    >
    >With my previous bike, raising handlebars was trivial with
    >a quill stem (although the bike shop let me know that I had
    >exceeded the maximum extension), but with this new bike, it
    >means new handlebars, new stems, or a stem riser, none of
    >which I have.

    If you haven't got enough adjustability by flipping the stem
    and moving spacers, you could get a long, 45 degree stem
    like this: http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=10598 Such
    a stem is great for finding your ideal height. Or, an
    adjustable stem like
    http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=3501 is good too.

    This can give you more total height with any stem, as well
    as lots of adjustment room:
    http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?sku=4264

    It needn't be difficult to find your height, although it
    might cost you $20. Of course, if you don't mind taking the
    time to go to the LBS, it sounds like they're perfectly
    willing to work with you until it's right, which is great.

    Keep in mind that as you ride, you'll get used to the lower
    height, even bearing your weight on it, as you learn to
    bear your weight better and such. Change your hand
    positions often; use your bar ends if a mountain bike /
    flat bar (get bar ends if you haven't got them). If it's a
    road bike, search rec.bicycles for messages listing drop
    bar positions at groups.google.com...it's been discussed
    millions of times.

    In addition to handlebar height, consider handlebar reach
    and also saddle tilt. A saddle tilted forward pushes you
    into the bars, guaranteeing hand, arm, and shoulder pain.
    Too short reach results in similar pushing, and too long
    reach results in too much weight on your hands.
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
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