Bicycle riders will get more respect once they start obeying the laws that govern them.



Yeah, that's right! When bicyclists adhere to the rules of the road
here in NC, like they are supposed to, that is when you will probably
see people be a bit more tolerant of them.

Running redlights, entering an intersection when already having a
yellow and the ability to stop, 30 in a 25 (oh yes, I ran across that
today here in Cary).

You always hear these bicycle groups talking about how they are not
getting the proper respect on the road, but they don't mind breaking
the law themselves.

And here is another clue for you bicycle riders in the Triangle part
of NC. When you have a sidewalk available to you why don't you use
it? Just remember that pedestrians have the right-of-way on
sidewalks, and that you will have to get off your bike and walk around
them. It won't hurt you so bad.....after all, you ARE out for
exercise, aren't you?

Yeah...if there AIN'T a bikelane and there IS a sidewalk, how's about
pick it on up and off'n the road? The road is not one of those horse
and shield in an amphitheater things, you know what I mean vern?
 
Here - I'll tell it like it is - kiss my ass. As the driver of 3500 lbs of
steel moving at 40+ mph traffic laws are important and necessary. As the
rider on a 20 lb bicycle without a shred of protection some ********** with
a big mouth like yours ought to just say something like that to my face so
that I can kick your ass for sure.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yeah, that's right! When bicyclists adhere to the rules of the road
> here in NC, like they are supposed to, that is when you will probably
> see people be a bit more tolerant of them.
>
> Running redlights, entering an intersection when already having a
> yellow and the ability to stop, 30 in a 25 (oh yes, I ran across that
> today here in Cary).
>
> You always hear these bicycle groups talking about how they are not
> getting the proper respect on the road, but they don't mind breaking
> the law themselves.
>
> And here is another clue for you bicycle riders in the Triangle part
> of NC. When you have a sidewalk available to you why don't you use
> it? Just remember that pedestrians have the right-of-way on
> sidewalks, and that you will have to get off your bike and walk around
> them. It won't hurt you so bad.....after all, you ARE out for
> exercise, aren't you?
>
> Yeah...if there AIN'T a bikelane and there IS a sidewalk, how's about
> pick it on up and off'n the road? The road is not one of those horse
> and shield in an amphitheater things, you know what I mean vern?
>
 
Sounds like an angry driver to me. Especially when talkin' about
walkin' a bicycle on a sidewalk.. walkin' a bicycle. Irony? Unless
there's a mechanical issue or flat tire, I find it funny. Regardless
if that's exercise or not, cyclists are allowed on the road as well as
any car. No need for a bike lane to state that. Sure, there are
cyclists who don't obey the law, but there are drivers who do the
same. Passin' through an intersection when the light's yellow is not
restricted to cyclists alone. It's not illegal, anyway. I doubt
those cyclists would listen to you even if you told them much like
drivers, so it's a lost cause.
 
On Jun 4, 6:35 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Yeah, that's right! When bicyclists adhere to the rules of the road
> here in NC, like they are supposed to, that is when you will probably
> see people be a bit more tolerant of them.
>
> Running redlights, entering an intersection when already having a
> yellow and the ability to stop, 30 in a 25 (oh yes, I ran across that
> today here in Cary).
>
> You always hear these bicycle groups talking about how they are not
> getting the proper respect on the road, but they don't mind breaking
> the law themselves.
>
> And here is another clue for you bicycle riders in the Triangle part
> of NC. When you have a sidewalk available to you why don't you use
> it? Just remember that pedestrians have the right-of-way on
> sidewalks, and that you will have to get off your bike and walk around
> them. It won't hurt you so bad.....after all, you ARE out for
> exercise, aren't you?
>
> Yeah...if there AIN'T a bikelane and there IS a sidewalk, how's about
> pick it on up and off'n the road? The road is not one of those horse
> and shield in an amphitheater things, you know what I mean vern?


Good troll. Nicely done. Not a single swear word in there, good
spelling, and usage of a classic Jim Varney catch-phrase. All-in-all,
a solid 6 out of 10. Might have gotten a 7 or 7.5 if he had posted to
rbm instead of rbr.

A few years back I had the opportunity to ride some around Cary, NC
and, thankfully, never had the displeasure of encountering anyone that
shares your views.
 
> Regardless
> if that's exercise or not, cyclists are allowed on the road as well as
> any car.


Nooooooo!!!!!!!!! I saw a cyclist on old apex road and everyone behind him
was going 10 or 15 mph. I called the officer on duty, cary police, and he
told me cyclists are allowed on the road but they are not allowed to impede
traffic like that.

So, to the guy who wants to kick ass, wait for the cary police, punch one of
them in the nose, and kick their ass.

Idiots.

-g
 
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Here - I'll tell it like it is - kiss my ass. As the driver of 3500 lbs of
> steel moving at 40+ mph traffic laws are important and necessary. As the
> rider on a 20 lb bicycle without a shred of protection some **********
> with a big mouth like yours ought to just say something like that to my
> face so that I can kick your ass for sure.


This is symtomatic of the psychological side effects of those in this sport
who take testosterone injections to improve their performance. Suggest you
lay off the juice for a while, bro.
 
On Jun 4, 5:35 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Yeah, that's right! When bicyclists adhere to the rules of the road
> here in NC, like they are supposed to, that is when you will probably
> see people be a bit more tolerant of them.
>
> Running redlights, entering an intersection when already having a
> yellow and the ability to stop, 30 in a 25 (oh yes, I ran across that
> today here in Cary).


> You always hear these bicycle groups talking about how they are not
> getting the proper respect on the road, but they don't mind breaking
> the law themselves.
>
> And here is another clue for you bicycle riders in the Triangle part
> of NC. When you have a sidewalk available to you why don't you use
> it? Just remember that pedestrians have the right-of-way on
> sidewalks, and that you will have to get off your bike and walk around
> them. It won't hurt you so bad.....after all, you ARE out for
> exercise, aren't you?
>
> Yeah...if there AIN'T a bikelane and there IS a sidewalk, how's about
> pick it on up and off'n the road? The road is not one of those horse
> and shield in an amphitheater things, you know what I mean vern?


From:

http://www.cicle.org/cicle_content/pivot/entry.php?id=1035

(Headline):
<New Florida law gives cyclists 3-foot buffer>

Note, "the cops like it". Read for yourself.

--D-y
 

> From:
>
> http://www.cicle.org/cicle_content/pivot/entry.php?id=1035
>
> (Headline):
> <New Florida law gives cyclists 3-foot buffer>
>
> Note, "the cops like it". Read for yourself.
>
> --D-y
>


I do not object to bicycles on the roads, nor do I want to
unintentionally (or even intentionally) harm or kill anyone. :)

It occurs to me that some of the riders around here ride closer to
each other than three feet apart. Often times they are leisurely
riding two abreast down the road having a conversation when they are
approached from behind (if I am driving, going below the posted speed)
by a 4-6 ton truck towing a trailer. They probably do not realize that
in some cases a truck like this does not slow from 50 to 5 mph quickly
enough to not hit them. The only alternative then is to pass. If I am
pulling around a pair of bicyclists with a trailer and oncoming car or
truck (often going to fast) appears suddenly, guess who gets squeezed?
To me, these bicyclists are the equivalent of drivers whose priority
is a cell phone conversation.

Alternatively there are serious riders that stay right, move at a good
clip, are generally respectful and aware of the traffic and do not
have priorities other than riding. These people generally do not
become speed bumps.

I think if both parties (drivers and bicyclists) use their heads and
*pay attention* on the road, giving respect to the other person, most
times things work out. However it does not take a rocket surgeon to
know that riding a bicycle on the same road with 2-10 ton vehicle (and
some of the nut cases driving them) is *dangerous*. I suggest that if
you are out for a leisurely ride to chat and not pay particular
attention to what you are doing, there are approximately 7000 acres
(an area 8 miles long and 2 miles wide) in the center of the triangle
that has paved roads and is almost empty on the weekends, it is called
the RTP. IMO this is a *much* safer alternative for most of the
recreational bicycle riders I see on the county roads.
 
On Jun 4, 8:52 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Good troll. Nicely done. Not a single swear word in there, good
> spelling, and usage of a classic Jim Varney catch-phrase. All-in-all,
> a solid 6 out of 10. Might have gotten a 7 or 7.5 if he had posted to
> rbm instead of rbr.


Too obvious ... been done too many times ... subject line gives it
away. 2 out of 10.

rbm would definitely raise it though.
 
geoff wrote:
>>Regardless
>>if that's exercise or not, cyclists are allowed on the road as well as
>>any car.

>
>
> Nooooooo!!!!!!!!! I saw a cyclist on old apex road and everyone behind him
> was going 10 or 15 mph. I called the officer on duty, cary police, and he
> told me cyclists are allowed on the road but they are not allowed to impede
> traffic like that.
>
> So, to the guy who wants to kick ass, wait for the cary police, punch one of
> them in the nose, and kick their ass.
>
> Idiots.
>


The Officer is wrong.

"NC §20-141. Speed restrictions.
(h) No person shall operate a motor vehicle on the highway at such a
slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic
except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in
compliance with law; provided, this provision shall not apply to farm
tractors and other motor vehicles operating at reasonable speeds for the
type and nature of such vehicles."

This statute applies to motor vehicles, not bicycle vehicles, and
clearly exempts those vehicles that have limited operating speeds due to
their design and use.

Wayne
 
me wrote:

> I do not object to bicycles on the roads, nor do I want to
> unintentionally (or even intentionally) harm or kill anyone. :)
>
> It occurs to me that some of the riders around here ride closer to
> each other than three feet apart. Often times they are leisurely
> riding two abreast down the road having a conversation when they are
> approached from behind (if I am driving, going below the posted speed)
> by a 4-6 ton truck towing a trailer. They probably do not realize that
> in some cases a truck like this does not slow from 50 to 5 mph quickly
> enough to not hit them. The only alternative then is to pass. If I am
> pulling around a pair of bicyclists with a trailer and oncoming car or
> truck (often going to fast) appears suddenly, guess who gets squeezed?
> To me, these bicyclists are the equivalent of drivers whose priority
> is a cell phone conversation.
>
> Alternatively there are serious riders that stay right, move at a good
> clip, are generally respectful and aware of the traffic and do not
> have priorities other than riding. These people generally do not
> become speed bumps.
>
> I think if both parties (drivers and bicyclists) use their heads and
> *pay attention* on the road, giving respect to the other person, most
> times things work out. However it does not take a rocket surgeon to
> know that riding a bicycle on the same road with 2-10 ton vehicle (and
> some of the nut cases driving them) is *dangerous*. I suggest that if
> you are out for a leisurely ride to chat and not pay particular
> attention to what you are doing, there are approximately 7000 acres
> (an area 8 miles long and 2 miles wide) in the center of the triangle
> that has paved roads and is almost empty on the weekends, it is called
> the RTP. IMO this is a *much* safer alternative for most of the
> recreational bicycle riders I see on the county roads.
>


There should never be the *need* to pass rather than slow. All vehicle
drivers should be able to come to a complete stop in time to avoid
hitting a stationary object, like a vehicle stopped at a traffic signal.
A moving bicyclist creates significant margin for error.

Bicyclists need not pay attention to passing motorists. It is the
responsibility of those wishing to pass to pay attention and to pass
safely.

Wayne
 
"Wayne Pein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bicyclists need not pay attention to passing motorists. It is the
> responsibility of those wishing to pass to pay attention and to pass
> safely.


This is why motorists hate bicyclists!
 
Thank you! Thank you for making my case. You wrote:

> "NC §20-141. Speed restrictions.
> (h) No person shall operate a motor vehicle on the highway at such a slow
> speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic


.. . . the ncdot says:

http://www.ncdot.org/transit/bicycle/laws/laws_bikelaws.html
(23) Motor Vehicle. - Every vehicle which is self- propelled and every
vehicle designed to run upon the highways which is pulled by a
self-propelled vehicle. This shall not include mopeds as defined in G.S.
20-4.01(27)d1.

.. . . and

(49) Bicycles "shall be deemed vehicles and every rider of a bicycle upon a
highway shall be subject to the provisions of [Chapter 20 (Motor Vehicles)
of the General Statutes of North Carolina] applicable to the driver of a
vehicle, except for those laws that which by their nature can have no
application."

.. . . and

e) Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, when appropriate
signs have been posted, it shall be unlawful for any person to operate a
motor vehicle over and upon the inside lane, next to the median of any
dual-lane highway at a speed less than the posted speed limit when the
operation of said motor vehicle over and upon said inside lane shall impede
the steady flow of traffic except when preparing for a left turn.

So, the guy who wants to kick ass, please call the Cary police and let them
know you will be kicking their ass. I am sure they will have a reply for
you.

-g
 
"Wayne Pein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> me wrote:
>
>> I do not object to bicycles on the roads, nor do I want to
>> unintentionally (or even intentionally) harm or kill anyone. :)
>>
>> It occurs to me that some of the riders around here ride closer to
>> each other than three feet apart. Often times they are leisurely
>> riding two abreast down the road having a conversation when they
>> are approached from behind (if I am driving, going below the posted
>> speed) by a 4-6 ton truck towing a trailer. They probably do not
>> realize that in some cases a truck like this does not slow from 50
>> to 5 mph quickly enough to not hit them. The only alternative then
>> is to pass. If I am pulling around a pair of bicyclists with a
>> trailer and oncoming car or truck (often going to fast) appears
>> suddenly, guess who gets squeezed? To me, these bicyclists are the
>> equivalent of drivers whose priority is a cell phone conversation.
>>
>> Alternatively there are serious riders that stay right, move at a
>> good clip, are generally respectful and aware of the traffic and do
>> not have priorities other than riding. These people generally do
>> not become speed bumps.
>>
>> I think if both parties (drivers and bicyclists) use their heads
>> and *pay attention* on the road, giving respect to the other
>> person, most times things work out. However it does not take a
>> rocket surgeon to know that riding a bicycle on the same road with
>> 2-10 ton vehicle (and some of the nut cases driving them) is
>> *dangerous*. I suggest that if you are out for a leisurely ride to
>> chat and not pay particular attention to what you are doing, there
>> are approximately 7000 acres (an area 8 miles long and 2 miles
>> wide) in the center of the triangle that has paved roads and is
>> almost empty on the weekends, it is called the RTP. IMO this is a
>> *much* safer alternative for most of the recreational bicycle
>> riders I see on the county roads.

>
> There should never be the *need* to pass rather than slow. All
> vehicle drivers should be able to come to a complete stop in time to
> avoid hitting a stationary object, like a vehicle stopped at a
> traffic signal. A moving bicyclist creates significant margin for
> error.
>
> Bicyclists need not pay attention to passing motorists. It is the
> responsibility of those wishing to pass to pay attention and to pass
> safely.
>
> Wayne
>


Wayne thank you kindly for your response. Out of respect and concern I
must say the following.

The problem appears to be that you think (like some motorists) that it
is always the other guy that needs to watch out and work around
whatever you want to do. Obviously you have never pulled a 11,000lb
livestock truck over back country roads. I invite you to try out here
some nice Saturday in May.

Besides being risky for the valuable animals, you would find very
quickly there is no way to stop and still control the vehicle when
rounding a curve or coming over a hill an encountering two bicyclists
riding abreast. Believe me, there are many deer possums and squirrels
that have found this to be true during their last moments on earth.

Additionally, I am not required by law to risk my life avoiding those
thumbing their noses at Darwin, while I am within the posted speed
limits. (see the reasonable man statutes) so for your own health and
safety, I respectfully suggest that you do pay attention.

See: http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

Denning L.J. in Morton vs. Wheeler said
"if a reasonable man, taking such contingencies into account and
giving close attention to the state of affairs would say: 'I think
there is quite a chance that someone going along the road may be
injured if this stays as it is', then it is a danger; but if the
possibility of injury is so remote that he would dismiss it out of
hand saying: 'Of course it is possible but not in the least probable'
then it is not a danger"".

I would argue that this opinion applies equally to bicycles as well as
motorists.
 
As pointed out in the other post, you do not know what you're talking about.

-g
 
geoff wrote:

> Thank you! Thank you for making my case. You wrote:
>
>
>>"NC §20-141. Speed restrictions.
>>(h) No person shall operate a motor vehicle on the highway at such a slow
>>speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic

>
>
> . . . the ncdot says:
>
> http://www.ncdot.org/transit/bicycle/laws/laws_bikelaws.html
> (23) Motor Vehicle. - Every vehicle which is self- propelled and every
> vehicle designed to run upon the highways which is pulled by a
> self-propelled vehicle. This shall not include mopeds as defined in G.S.
> 20-4.01(27)d1.
>
> . . . and
>
> (49) Bicycles "shall be deemed vehicles and every rider of a bicycle upon a
> highway shall be subject to the provisions of [Chapter 20 (Motor Vehicles)
> of the General Statutes of North Carolina] applicable to the driver of a
> vehicle, except for those laws that which by their nature can have no
> application."
>
> . . . and
>
> e) Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, when appropriate
> signs have been posted, it shall be unlawful for any person to operate a
> motor vehicle over and upon the inside lane, next to the median of any
> dual-lane highway at a speed less than the posted speed limit when the
> operation of said motor vehicle over and upon said inside lane shall impede
> the steady flow of traffic except when preparing for a left turn.
>
> So, the guy who wants to kick ass, please call the Cary police and let them
> know you will be kicking their ass. I am sure they will have a reply for
> you.
>
> -g
>
>


Damn, you are an ignoramus.

Bicycles are vehicles, but not motor vehicles, as I already stated.
Hence, they are not subject to certain laws for motor vehicles, such as
what I already posted:

§20-141. Speed restrictions.
(h) No person shall operate a motor vehicle on the highway at such a
slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic
except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in
compliance with law; provided, this provision shall not apply to farm
tractors and other motor vehicles operating at reasonable speeds for the
type and nature of such vehicles.

This statute applies to motor vehicles, not bicycle vehicles, and
clearly exempts those vehicles that have limited operating speeds due to
their design and use.

There are other operating statutes that do not apply to bicycle users.
Bicycle users are also not required to have licence, insurance, or
registration as do users of motor vehicles.

Perhaps you'll get it this time. However, if you don't get it, it
doesn't matter.

Wayne
 
abby now wrote:

> "Wayne Pein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Bicyclists need not pay attention to passing motorists. It is the
>>responsibility of those wishing to pass to pay attention and to pass
>>safely.

>
>
> This is why motorists hate bicyclists!
>
>
>


No vehicle operator is required to pay attention to passing vehicles.

This is why there are "problems." Most people are ignorant of the laws.

Abby now, is it nice to hate?

Wayne
 
me wrote:


>
>
> Wayne thank you kindly for your response. Out of respect and concern I
> must say the following.
>
> The problem appears to be that you think (like some motorists) that it
> is always the other guy that needs to watch out and work around
> whatever you want to do. Obviously you have never pulled a 11,000lb
> livestock truck over back country roads. I invite you to try out here
> some nice Saturday in May.
>
> Besides being risky for the valuable animals, you would find very
> quickly there is no way to stop and still control the vehicle when
> rounding a curve or coming over a hill an encountering two bicyclists
> riding abreast. Believe me, there are many deer possums and squirrels
> that have found this to be true during their last moments on earth.


Dear Me,

What do you do if there is a car stopped in the road? Bash it? No, you
come to a controlled stop. That is your responsibility, and you are
required to drive slow enough and have your vehicle in control to be
able to do so. If it requires driving even slower, so be it. It is NOT
the responsibility of vehicle users, including bicyclists, to watch out
from behind.

>
> Additionally, I am not required by law to risk my life avoiding those
> thumbing their noses at Darwin, while I am within the posted speed
> limits. (see the reasonable man statutes) so for your own health and
> safety, I respectfully suggest that you do pay attention.


Me,

Again, YOU must control your vehicle.

§20-141. Speed restrictions.
(a) No person shall drive a vehicle on a highway or in a public
vehicular area at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under
the conditions then existing.
(m) The fact that the speed of a vehicle is lower than the foregoing
limits shall not relieve the operator of a vehicle from the duty to
decrease speed as may be necessary to avoid colliding with any person,
vehicle or other conveyance on or entering the highway, and to avoid
injury to any person or property.

Let me say it another way for you. All drivers must travel no faster
than sight distance and conditions allow them to slow or stop to avoid
colliding with other traffic moving slower or stopped in the road ahead.
The default safe speed in a traffic lane at a given point is the speed
of the slowest user, whether it is a bicycle, farm tractor, transit bus,
or any legally slow(ed) or stopped vehicle or crossing pedestrian.

>
> See: http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm
>
> Denning L.J. in Morton vs. Wheeler said
> "if a reasonable man, taking such contingencies into account and
> giving close attention to the state of affairs would say: 'I think
> there is quite a chance that someone going along the road may be
> injured if this stays as it is', then it is a danger; but if the
> possibility of injury is so remote that he would dismiss it out of
> hand saying: 'Of course it is possible but not in the least probable'
> then it is not a danger"".
>
> I would argue that this opinion applies equally to bicycles as well as
> motorists.


I would argue that you are the type of person who tries to blame the victim.

Wayne
 
Wayne Pein wrote:
>


> This statute applies to motor vehicles, not bicycle vehicles, and
> clearly exempts those vehicles that have limited operating speeds due to
> their design and use.



I won't be happy until roller skates, scooters, tricycles,
skate boards, and bicycles are prohibited on any roadway
with a speed limit greater than 35 mph.

There are no more dangerous roadhogs than a mob of (supposed)
adult bicyclists on a highway - particularly a rural one.

Let them obtain a parade permit for races, rallies, etc.
 
Lets see, the law says:

'every rider of a bicycle upon a highway shall be subject to the provisions
of [Chapter 20 (Motor Vehicles)'

.. . . did you see that? It did not say some riders, or the ones who think
the law is wrong, it said 'EVERY RIDER', then goes on to say 'SHALL BE
SUBJECT TO THE PROVISIONS OF [CHAPTER 20 (MOTOR VEHICLES . . .'

.. . . did you see the word 'MOTOR'? Tell you what, you argue with the Cary
police, I called the watch commander and asked again.

That can be your goal in life, impede traffic, and when the Cary police
come, kick their ass.

-g
 

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