Bicyclers Unite - Ban Automobiles

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.soc archive' started by Robert, Feb 6, 2004.

  1. Robert

    Robert Guest

    The only automobiles that should be allowed on the streets in the US are trucks to deliver goods.
    Everyone else will either have to ride a bicycle (preferred) or take mass transportation. I know
    it's nearly impossible to implement such a scheme in the short term but over time this can become a
    reality. Look at The Netherlands, parts of Denmark, Switzerland and Flemish Belgium. Most citizens
    use bicycle for their major source of transportation. The economies are modern and prosperous and in
    some ways more advanced then here in the US. Plus I don't remember ever seeing an overweight person
    in these countries. Yes the infrastructure and population density is much different in Europe but
    still it can be done in the US. So get rid of your cars and start riding your bike. Does anyone know
    how to get this revolution going?
     
    Tags:


  2. "Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    : The only automobiles that should be allowed on the streets in the US are trucks to deliver goods.
    : Everyone else will either have to ride a bicycle (preferred) or take mass transportation. I know
    : it's nearly impossible to implement such a scheme in the short term but over time this can become
    : a reality. Look at The Netherlands, parts of Denmark, Switzerland and Flemish Belgium. Most
    : citizens use bicycle for their major source of transportation. The economies are modern and
    : prosperous and in some ways more advanced then here in the US. Plus I don't remember ever seeing
    : an overweight person in these countries. Yes the infrastructure and population density is much
    : different in Europe but still it can be done in the US. So get rid of your cars and start riding
    : your bike. Does anyone know how to get this revolution going?

    Apparently the wait for the demise of the private auto won't be too long. see http://www.dieoff.org/
    . 'Course the downside of the impending oil crash is that we'll probably all die of starvation
    unless we learn to produce food locally.

    Constitutionally (in America), the rights of the bicyclist and pedestrian override those of the
    motorist. see http://tinyurl.com/2sf6y
     
  3. "Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    : The only automobiles that should be allowed on the streets in the US are trucks to deliver goods.

    If we were a truly rational species, we would. Here's George Monbiot's concise version of our
    near future.

    http://www.monbiot.com The Bottom of the Barrel

    Oil is running out, but no one wants to talk about it. By George Monbiot. Published in the
    Guardian 2nd December 2003

    The oil industry is buzzing. On Thursday, the government approved the development of the biggest
    deposit discovered in British territory for at least 10 years. Everywhere we are told that this is
    a "huge" find, which dispels the idea that North Sea oil is in terminal decline. You begin to
    recognise how serious the human predicament has become when you discover that this "huge" new
    field will supply the world with oil for five and a quarter days.1

    Every generation has its taboo, and ours is this: that the resource upon which our lives have been
    built is running out. We don't talk about it because we cannot imagine it. This is a civilisation
    in denial.

    Oil itself won't disappear, but extracting what remains is becoming ever more difficult and
    expensive. The discovery of new reserves peaked in the 1960s.2 Every year, we use four times as
    much oil as we find.3 All the big strikes appear to have been made long ago: the 400 million
    barrels in the new North Sea field would have been considered piffling in the 1970s. Our future
    supplies depend on the discovery of small new deposits and the better exploitation of big old
    ones. No one with expertise in the field is in any doubt that the global production of oil will
    peak before long.

    The only question is how long. The most optimistic projections are the ones produced by the US
    Department of Energy, which claims that this will not take place until 2037.4 But the US energy
    information agency has admitted that the government's figures have been fudged: it has based its
    projections for oil supply on the projections for oil demand,5 perhaps in order not to sow panic
    in the financial markets. Other analysts are less sanguine. The petroleum geologist Colin Campbell
    calculates that global extraction will peak before 2010.6 In August the geophysicist Kenneth
    Deffeyes told New Scientist that he was "99 per cent confident" that the date of maximum global
    production will be 2004.7 Even if the optimists are correct, we will be scraping the oil barrel
    within the lifetimes of most of those who are middle-aged today.

    The supply of oil will decline, but global demand will not. Today we will burn 76 million
    barrels;8 by 2020 we will be using 112 million barrels a day, after which projected demand
    accelarates.9 If supply declines and demand grows, we soon encounter something with which the
    people of the advanced industrial economies are unfamiliar: shortage. The price of oil will go
    through the roof.

    As the price rises, the sectors which are now almost wholly dependent on crude oil - principally
    transport and farming - will be forced to contract. Given that climate change caused by burning
    oil is cooking the planet, this might appear to be a good thing. The problem is that our lives
    have become hard-wired to the oil economy. Our sprawling suburbs are impossible to service without
    cars. High oil prices mean high food prices: much of the world's growing population will go
    hungry. These problems will be exacerbated by the direct connection between the price of oil and
    the rate of unemployment.10 The last five recessions in the US were all preceded by a rise in the
    oil price.11

    Oil, of course, is not the only fuel on which vehicles can run. There are plenty of possible
    substitutes, but none of them is likely to be anywhere near as cheap as crude is today. Petroleum
    can be extracted from tar sands and oil shale, but in most cases the process uses almost as much
    energy as it liberates, while creating great mountains and lakes of toxic waste. Natural gas is a
    better option, but switching from oil to gas propulsion would require a vast and staggeringly
    expensive new fuel infrastructure. Gas, of course, is subject to the same constraints as oil: at
    current rates of use, the world has about 50 years' supply,12 but if gas were to take the place of
    oil its life would be much shorter.

    Vehicles could be run from fuel cells powered by hydrogen, which is produced by the electrolysis
    of water. But the electricity which produces the hydrogen has to come from somewhere. To fill all
    the cars in the US would require four times the current capacity of the national grid.13 Coal
    burning is filthy, nuclear energy is expensive and lethal. Running the world's cars from wind or
    solar power would require a greater investment than any civilisation has ever made before. New
    studies suggest that leaking hydrogen could damage the ozone layer and exacerbate global
    warming.14

    Turning crops into diesel or methanol is just about viable in terms of recoverable energy, but it
    means using the land on which food is now grown for fuel. My rough calculations suggest that
    running the United Kingdom's cars on rapeseed oil would require an area of arable fields the size
    of England.15

    There is one possible solution which no one writing about the impending oil crisis seems to have
    noticed: a technique with which the British and Australian governments are currently
    experimenting, called underground coal gasification.16 This is a fancy term for setting light to
    coal seams which are too deep or too expensive to mine, and catching the gas which emerges. It's a
    hideous prospect, as it means that several trillion tonnes of carbon which was otherwise
    impossible to exploit becomes available, with the likely result that global warming will eliminate
    life on earth.

    We seem, in other words, to be in trouble. Either we lay hands on
    every available source of fossil fuel, in which case we fry the planet
    and civilisation collapses, or we run out, and civilisation collapses.

    The only rational response to both the impending end of the Oil Age and the menace of global
    warming is to redesign our cities, our farming and our lives. But this cannot happen without
    massive political pressure, and our problem is that no one ever rioted for austerity. People take
    to the streets because they want to consume more, not less. Given a choice between a new set of
    matching tableware and the survival of humanity, I suspect that most people would choose the
    tableware.

    In view of all this, the notion that the war with Iraq had nothing to do with oil is simply
    preposterous. The US attacked Iraq (which appears to have had no weapons of mass destruction and
    was not threatening other nations), rather than North Korea (which is actively developing a
    nuclear weapons programme and boasting of its intentions to blow everyone else to kingdom come)
    because Iraq had something it wanted. In one respect alone, Bush and Blair have been making plans
    for the day when oil production peaks, by seeking to secure the reserves of other nations.

    I refuse to believe that there is not a better means of averting disaster than this. I refuse to
    believe that human beings are collectively incapable of making rational decisions. But I am
    beginning to wonder what the basis of my belief might be.

    The sources for this and all George Monbiot's recent articles can be found at www.monbiot.com

    References:

    1. The Buzzard field is believed to contain 400 million barrels of recoverable oil. The US
    Energy Information Administration estimates global daily oil demand at 76 million barrels
    (see below).

    2. Richard Heinberg, 2003. The Party's Over: Oil, War and the Fate of Industrial Societies, p.36.
    New Society Publishers, Canada.

    3. Bob Holmes and Nicola Jones, 2nd August 2003. Brace yourself for the end of cheap oil. New
    Scientist, vol 179, issue 2406.

    4. ibid.

    5. US EIA, 1998. Annual Energy Outlook, cited in Richard Heinberg, ibid, p.115. The extract reads
    as follows: "these adjustments to the USGS and MMR estimates are based on non-technical
    considerations that support domestic supply growth to the levels necessary to meet projected
    demand levels".

    6. Colin J. Campbell, 1997. The Coming Oil Crisis. Multi-Science

    7. Bob Holmes and Nicola Jones, ibid.

    8. US Energy Information Administration, 2003. Annual Energy Outlook 2003 With Projections to
    2025. http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/

    9. ibid.

    10. Alan Carruth, Mark Hooker, and Andrew Oswald, 1998. Unemployment Equilibria and Input Prices:
    Theory and Evidence from the United States. Review of Economics and Statistics 80: 621-28.

    11. James C. Cooper and Kathleen Madigan, 10th January 2003. Will the Economy Skid on Oil?
    Business Week Online. http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jan2003/nf20030110_5883.htm

    12. Richard Heinberg, ibid. p. 126.

    13. Hugh Williams, 6th September 2003. Hydrogen hype. Letter to New Scientist, vol 179,
    issue 2411.

    14. Cited in Anil Ananthaswamy, 15th November 2003. Reality Bites for
    the Dream of a Hydrogen Economy. New Scientist, vol 180, issue 2421.

    15. This is back-of-the-envelope, and depends on two unchecked assumptions: a. that the average
    mpg is 30, b. that the average annual mileage is 5000. This gives an annual fuel use of 167
    gallons/car/year. One acre of rapeseed yields 115 gallons of biodiesel. There are 22.7m cars
    in the UK, which means 33m acres, or 13.3m ha. England's surface area is 13.4m ha.

    16. Fred Pearce, 1st June 2002. Fire Down Below. New Scientist, vol 174, issue 2345.

    2nd December 2003
     
  4. Tom Keats

    Tom Keats Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "T. Brady Bunch" <[email protected]> writes:

    > 'Course the downside of the impending oil crash is that we'll probably all die of starvation
    > unless we learn to produce food locally.

    Isn't that what we used to do?

    cheers, Tom

    --
    -- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
    [point] bc [point] ca
     
  5. Ooze

    Ooze Guest

    [email protected] (Robert) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > this can become a reality. Look at The Netherlands, parts of Denmark, Switzerland and Flemish
    > Belgium. Most citizens use bicycle for their major source of transportation. The economies are
    > modern and prosperous and in some ways more advanced then here in the US. Plus I don't remember
    > ever seeing an overweight person in these countries. Yes the infrastructure and population density
    > is much different in Europe but still it can be done in the US. So get rid of your cars and start
    > riding your bike. Does anyone know how to get this revolution going?

    Most citizens?? Granted, the Netherlands might be the country with the most bikes per per person,
    stealing them is a national sport there, but many more people still use cars. Many western Europeans
    (like many USians) have 2 or more cars, it's not as if they buy them for decorating the driveway.
     
  6. "Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    : In article <[email protected]>, "T. Brady Bunch"
    : <[email protected]> writes:
    :
    : > 'Course the downside of the impending oil crash is that we'll probably all die of starvation
    unless
    : > we learn to produce food locally.
    :
    : Isn't that what we used to do?
    :
    Not with a world population exceeding 6 *billion* people. Cheap energy has allowed huge
    unsustainable national populations. See the chart at http://www.dieoff.org/ . It's obvious that a
    dramatic population increase has been made possible by the availability of abundant "cheap" fossil
    fuel. Providing food without fertilizer (produced from petroleum) and mechanization (using the
    concentrated energy of petroleum) will be problematic at best.

    http://www.dieoff.org/index.htm#foodpop Africa is beginning of a full-on Malthusian dieoff. See
    "Worldwatch Briefing: Sixteen Dimensions of the Population Problem" at
    http://www.worldwatch.org/alerts/pr98924.html and "Life on Earth is Killing Us" press release at http://www.enn.com/news/enn-
    stories/1998/10/100298/killingus.asp and study itself is here.

    To put this in context, you must remember that estimates of the long-term carrying capacity of
    Earth with relatively optimistic assumptions about consumption, technologies, and equity (A x T),
    are in the vicinity of two billion people. Today's population cannot be sustained on the
    'interest' generated by natural ecosystems, but is consuming its vast supply of natural capital --
    especially deep, rich agricultural soils, 'fossil' groundwater, and biodiversity -- accumulated
    over centuries to eons. In some places soils, which are generated on a time scale of centimeters
    per century are disappearing at rates of centimeters per year. Some aquifers are being depleted at
    dozens of times their recharge rates, and we have embarked on the greatest extinction episode in
    65 million years. -- Paul Ehrlich (Sept. 25, 1998)
     
  7. Wait for the world's oil supply to end?

    Oh wait, the magical hydrogen genie will arrive by then, letting us drive fuel cell powered Hummers.
    Honest, I saw the report on TV, sandwiched between two car commercials.

    "Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    Does anyone know how to get this revolution
    > going?
     
  8. "Robert Haston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    : Wait for the world's oil supply to end?
    :
    : Oh wait, the magical hydrogen genie will arrive by then, letting us
    drive
    : fuel cell powered Hummers. Honest, I saw the report on TV, sandwiched between two car commercials.
    :
    The California governator aka Der Gropenfuhrer is counting on it. I've mentioned the impending oil
    crash to people and get the reply that "they" will come up with a solution by then. After all, the
    Titanic is only listing the least tiny little bit ... not to worry.
     
  9. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On 7 Feb 2004 02:17:54 -0800, [email protected] (oOze) wrote
    in message <[email protected]>:

    >Many western Europeans (like many USians) have 2 or more cars, it's not as if they buy them for
    >decorating the driveway.

    No indeed. During the day they decorate the side of the road near the office (an average of 25
    minutes' ride or 40 minutes' drive away).

    Guy
    ===
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
     
  10. Robert

    Robert Guest

    "T. Brady Bunch" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:8c7b0f9.0402061726.268ee3[email protected]...
    > : The only automobiles that should be allowed on the streets in the US are trucks to deliver
    > : goods. Everyone else will either have to ride a bicycle (preferred) or take mass transportation.
    > : I know it's nearly impossible to implement such a scheme in the short term but over time this
    > : can become a reality. Look at The Netherlands, parts of Denmark, Switzerland and Flemish
    > : Belgium. Most citizens use bicycle for their major source of transportation. The economies are
    > : modern and prosperous and in some ways more advanced then here in the US. Plus I don't remember
    > : ever seeing an overweight person in these countries. Yes the infrastructure and population
    > : density is much different in Europe but still it can be done in the US. So get rid of your cars
    > : and start riding your bike. Does anyone know how to get this revolution going?
    >
    > Apparently the wait for the demise of the private auto won't be too long. see
    > http://www.dieoff.org/ . 'Course the downside of the impending oil crash is that we'll probably
    > all die of starvation unless we learn to produce food locally.

    Sorry, this is bullshit.
    >
    > Constitutionally (in America), the rights of the bicyclist and pedestrian override those of the
    > motorist. see http://tinyurl.com/2sf6y
     
  11. "Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    : "T. Brady Bunch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    : > "Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    : > news:[email protected]...
    : > : The only automobiles that should be allowed on the streets in the
    US
    : > : are trucks to deliver goods.
    <snip>
    : > Apparently the wait for the demise of the private auto won't be too long. see
    : > http://www.dieoff.org/ . 'Course the downside of the impending oil crash is that we'll probably
    : > all die of starvation
    unless
    : > we learn to produce food locally.
    :
    : Sorry, this is bullshit.

    Are you referring to my comments regarding the end of oil or the rights of pedestrians and
    bicyclists?

    : >
    : > Constitutionally (in America), the rights of the bicyclist and pedestrian override those of the
    : > motorist. see
    http://tinyurl.com/2sf6y
     
  12. Robert

    Robert Guest

    "T. Brady Bunch" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > : "T. Brady Bunch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > : > "Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > : > news:[email protected]...
    > : > : The only automobiles that should be allowed on the streets in the
    > US
    > : > : are trucks to deliver goods.
    > <snip>
    > : > Apparently the wait for the demise of the private auto won't be too long. see
    > : > http://www.dieoff.org/ . 'Course the downside of the impending oil crash is that we'll
    > : > probably all die of starvation
    > unless
    > : > we learn to produce food locally.
    > :
    > : Sorry, this is bullshit.
    >
    > Are you referring to my comments regarding the end of oil or the rights of pedestrians and
    > bicyclists?
    >
    > : >
    > : > Constitutionally (in America), the rights of the bicyclist and pedestrian override those of
    > : > the motorist. see
    > http://tinyurl.com/2sf6y

    I was only referring to the end oil link. Don't believe that bullshit.
     
  13. Ddb

    Ddb Guest

    The sky is falling!!!!!!! the sky is falling!!!!!

    "T. Brady Bunch" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    berlin.de...
    >
    > "Robert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > : The only automobiles that should be allowed on the streets in the US are trucks to deliver
    > : goods. Everyone else will either have to ride a bicycle (preferred) or take mass transportation.
    > : I know it's nearly impossible to implement such a scheme in the short term but over time this
    > : can become a reality. Look at The Netherlands, parts of Denmark, Switzerland and Flemish
    > : Belgium. Most citizens use bicycle for their major source of transportation. The economies are
    > : modern and prosperous and in some ways more advanced then here in the US. Plus I don't remember
    > : ever seeing an overweight person in these countries. Yes the infrastructure and population
    > : density is much different in Europe but still it can be done in the US. So get rid of your cars
    > : and start riding your bike. Does anyone know how to get this revolution going?
    >
    > Apparently the wait for the demise of the private auto won't be too long. see
    > http://www.dieoff.org/ . 'Course the downside of the impending oil crash is that we'll probably
    > all die of starvation unless we learn to produce food locally.
    >
    > Constitutionally (in America), the rights of the bicyclist and pedestrian override those of the
    > motorist. see http://tinyurl.com/2sf6y
     
  14. No, we will drop very far, but land in a relatively comfortable position, considering good health
    care and lots of other niceties don't take much energy.

    "DDB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:drEVb.445525$X%[email protected]...
    > The sky is falling!!!!!!! the sky is falling!!!!!
    >
    >
    >
    > "T. Brady Bunch" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > berlin.de...
    > >

    > >
    > > Apparently the wait for the demise of the private auto won't be too long. see
    > > http://www.dieoff.org/ . 'Course the downside of the impending oil crash is that we'll probably
    > > all die of starvation unless we learn to produce food locally.
    > >
    > > Constitutionally (in America), the rights of the bicyclist and pedestrian override those of the
    > > motorist. see http://tinyurl.com/2sf6y
    > >
    >
     
  15. Mitch Haley

    Mitch Haley Guest

    Robert Haston wrote:
    >
    > No, we will drop very far, but land in a relatively comfortable position, considering good health
    > care and lots of other niceties don't take much energy.

    If we have to give up tractors and petroleum based fertilizers, we'll be dropping farther than you
    might think. Mitch.
     
  16. Non-petrol agriculture is a really interesting topic to me. If you cut out grain fed meat and
    processed, and grow a big garden, that is most of our agriculture. Also I think farming is an ideal
    application for alternative energy. I'm thinking some kind of center-pivot system fed by
    electricity. I think the best hobby that could sweep America would be aerobic gardening. I envision
    a single-row human powered tiller.

    Then there is the sustainable bio-fueled farm machine that even manufactures its replacement and
    manufactures fertilizer - the horse. It worked for my dad.

    "Mitch Haley" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Robert Haston wrote:
    > >
    > > No, we will drop very far, but land in a relatively comfortable
    position,
    > > considering good health care and lots of other niceties don't take much energy.
    >
    > If we have to give up tractors and petroleum based fertilizers, we'll be dropping farther than you
    > might think. Mitch.
     
  17. Doug Haxton

    Doug Haxton Guest

    On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 14:37:53 -0700, "T. Brady Bunch" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Robert Haston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >: Wait for the world's oil supply to end?
    >:
    >: Oh wait, the magical hydrogen genie will arrive by then, letting us
    >drive
    >: fuel cell powered Hummers. Honest, I saw the report on TV, sandwiched between two car
    >: commercials.
    >:
    >The California governator aka Der Gropenfuhrer is counting on it. I've mentioned the impending oil
    >crash to people and get the reply that "they" will come up with a solution by then. After all, the
    >Titanic is only listing the least tiny little bit ... not to worry.
    >
    So...what you're telling me is that I can only enjoy driving my Corvette for the next 30
    years or so?

    Doug
     
  18. Kevan Smith

    Kevan Smith Guest

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 05:16:07 GMT, Doug Haxton <[email protected]> from EarthLink Inc.
    -- http://www.EarthLink.net wrote:

    >So...what you're telling me is that I can only enjoy driving my Corvette for the next 30
    >years or so?

    Sorry about your penis.

    --
    [email protected]
    Emphasize the flaws.
    119
     
  19. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:28:16 -0600,
    <[email protected]>, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 05:16:07 GMT, Doug Haxton <[email protected]> from EarthLink Inc. --
    >http://www.EarthLink.net wrote:
    >
    >>So...what you're telling me is that I can only enjoy driving my Corvette for the next 30
    >>years or so?
    >
    >Sorry about your penis.

    Yeah, especially when it gets recalled by the factory.
     
  20. Doug Haxton

    Doug Haxton Guest

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:28:16 -0600, Kevan Smith
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 05:16:07 GMT, Doug Haxton <[email protected]> from EarthLink Inc. --
    >http://www.EarthLink.net wrote:
    >
    >>So...what you're telling me is that I can only enjoy driving my Corvette for the next 30
    >>years or so?
    >
    >Sorry about your penis.

    Sometimes a pencil is just a pencil, you know....do you also think that people who collect firearms
    are in need of psycoanalysis?

    Doug
     
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