Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones

[Johnny Sunset]

bdbafh wrote:
> val189 wrote:
> > Yarper wrote:
> > > Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> > > to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> > > working for a personal-injury law firm.
> > >
> > > http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2006/11/30/woman_is_sentenced_for_bicyclists_death
> > >
> > > What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> > > they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
> >
> > What we REALLY need are some heavy duty sentences for this type of
> > happening. I can't wait for the day they outlaw cell phone usage of
> > any kind while driving and some stiff penalties for noncompliance.
> > Almost got creamed today in a parking lot by two drivers screwin around
> > with their cellphones. Two hands on the wheel is becoming a rarity.
>
> "Two hands on the wheel is becoming a rarity."
>
> ever hear of driving a car with a standard (non-automatic)
> transmission?

In the US, the slushbox, er automatic transmission IS the standard
transmission. Almost all models of cars and light trucks have automatic
transmissions either available or as standard equipment, while the
majority of models do not even offer a manual transmission as an option
(try to find a minivan with a manual transmission).

The prevalence of the automatic transmission is one of the reasons why
US society is in decline. If cars were built to reasonable size and
weight, we could also get rid of power steering and brakes.

--
Tom Sherman - Post Free or Die!

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:57:04 GMT, "nash" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Karen I do not see frugal living in the addresses

She cut it from her response, it's there in the post she replied to.

Jasper

 

[Johnny Sunset]

Jasper Janssen wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 20:12:33 -0800, [email protected] (Tom Keats)
> wrote:
>
> >Maintaining a Simplified Lifestyle can be difficult in practice,
> >and there's nothing wrong with some mutual support and shared
> >experiences & knowledge, like where to obtain a washboard and
> >mangle,
>
> I'm not entirely convinced that washboard and mangle comes under frugal.
> If you spent those hours working at a McD you'd probably make the cost of
> the washing machine back ten times.

Frugal is living in an apartment building with common use washing
machines and dryers [1], since the machines stand idle much less than
privately owned ones.

[1] Dryers are necessary for a couple of reasons. Most apartments (in
the US) prohibit hanging clothes to dry on balconies, and there is
little space inside frugally priced apartments for clotheslines.

--
Tom Sherman - Post Free or Die!

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Jasper Janssen wrote:
> \On 1 Dec 2006 12:55:12 -0800, "Yarper" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> >to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> >working for a personal-injury law firm.
> >
> >http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2006/11/30/woman_is_sentenced_for_bicyclists_death
> >
> >What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> >they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>
> All of the Netherlands, and no you don't.
>
> Jasper

The solution-

http://www.speedbandits.dk/

 

[Robert Coe]

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 19:03:53 -0600, Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:
: In article <[email protected]>,
: "Yarper" <[email protected]> wrote:
:
: > Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly to
: > Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
: > working for a personal-injury law firm.
:
: Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?

It depends on your point of view. Is Jack Abramoff's political affiliation
relevant?

 

[Mark Hickey]

Tim McNamara <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:

>> There are not 100 bicyclists with head injuries every day in "any
>> Chinese city."
>>
>> 365 x 100 = 36,500 head injuries per year in "any Chinese city."
>
>Not to mention that there are hundreds of Chinese cities, if not
>thousands (depending on how one defines "city"). Goiing with "hundred"
>and "thousand" we get a national incidence of:
>
>36,500 x 100 = 3,650,000 per year.
>
>36,500 x 1,000 = 36,500,000 per year.
>
>If this was the case, then the Chinese population would be decimated
>annually by bicycling-related head injuries. I would think that such
>injury rates would provoke some sort of governmental or societal
>response to reduce the risk.

FWIW, Chinese maps tend not to include any "city" with a population of
less than 1,000,000. If a map of China was produced with the same
rules as a map of the US, the eastern seaboard would be solid ink.

Having ridden in Beijing while I lived there, I can say with absolute
certainty that there ARE a fair number of cyclists injured, but the
vast majority are injured by motor vehicles (just because you're in
the separated northbound bicycle lane doesn't mean there's not a
southbound bus coming at you). The cycling speed of commuters in
China is not much above a slow jogging speed - a necessity due to the
fact that a) they don't want to arrive at work sweaty, b) the density
of the bike traffic makes it difficult to ride a lot faster than the
"typical rider" and c) a very large percentage of the bikes don't have
working brakes of any type (other than the Fred Flinstone version).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
Robert Coe <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 19:03:53 -0600, Tim McNamara
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> : In article <[email protected]>,
> : "Yarper" <[email protected]> wrote:
> :
> : > Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due
> : > directly to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically
> : > is listed as working for a personal-injury law firm.
> :
> : Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
>
> It depends on your point of view. Is Jack Abramoff's political
> affiliation relevant?

No.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
Jasper Janssen <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 00:47:23 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> >Mother Earth News costs $10 per year:
> >
> >http://www.motherearthnews.com
> >
> >The cost of a computer, a telephone/dsl/cable connection to the
> >internet, and the electric bill for running it all is an order of
> >magnitude greater.
>
> Two orders of magnitude, really, to not be working with decrepit old
> machines failing at random times.

Oh, I dunno. I've got a Rev B iMac that is 8 years old and works very
reliably, having served for years as a Web server and as a print server
on my home LAN. It could easily be my only computer if I didn't need a
laptop for work.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
Martin Borsje <[email protected]> wrote:

> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Yarper" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> >> to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed
> >> as working for a personal-injury law firm.
> >
> > Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
> >
> >> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
> >> throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
> >
> > What Denmark and Holland have is a population that uses bikes in
> > large numbers. That's what makes the difference. Separate bikes
> > lanes are frequently more dangerous than riding on the roads.
>
> the issue in the Netherlands is that you really have a problem when
> you kill a cyclist by ignorance

And in many other places as well. The theory in the U.S. is that
everyone is treated equally in courts of law (of course it's really not
the case), so that negligently killing a cyclist is no different from
negligently killing a pedestrian or driver. U.S. courts also recognize
the possibility of contributory negligence on the part of the victim,
such as riding a bike at night in dark clothing with no lights or
reflectors. From what little I know of the case here, there was no
contributory negligence on the part of the cyclist who was killed.

It does seem that the prosecuting attorney made a very poor choice in
her choice of prosecution. Under U.S. law, the driver cannot be tried a
second time for the same crime.

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
Robert Coe <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:40:01 -0600, Tim McNamara
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> : In article <[email protected]>,
> : [email protected] wrote:
> :
> : > On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:07:36 GMT, "nash"
> : > <[email protected]> wrote:
> : >
> : > >Sorry that was suppose to 100/ day. no need to go postal now
> : > >
> : > >peace
> : >
> : > Dear Nash,
> : >
> : > Nothing postal, just basic arithmetic.
> : >
> : > There are not 100 bicyclists with head injuries every day in "any
> : > Chinese city."
> : >
> : > 365 x 100 = 36,500 head injuries per year in "any Chinese city."
> :
> : Not to mention that there are hundreds of Chinese cities, if not
> : thousands (depending on how one defines "city"). Goiing with
> : "hundred" and "thousand" we get a national incidence of:
> :
> : 36,500 x 100 = 3,650,000 per year.
> :
> : 36,500 x 1,000 = 36,500,000 per year.
> :
> : If this was the case, then the Chinese population would be
> : decimated annually by bicycling-related head injuries. I would
> : think that such injury rates would provoke some sort of
> : governmental or societal response to reduce the risk.
>
> Well, "decimated" may be a bit too strong a term. It means "reduced
> by 90%". The carnage you describe, even using the more lurid of your
> calculations, amounts to approximately .03%. The Chinese population
> is pretty large.

Erm, no. It means to reduce by 10% in its original usage:

"ORIGIN late Middle English : from Latin decimat- 'taken as a tenth,'
from the verb decimare, from decimus 'tenth.' In Middle English the
term decimation denoted the levying of a tithe, and later the tax
imposed in England by Cromwell on the Royalists (1655). The verb
decimate originally alluded to the Roman punishment of executing one
man in ten of a mutinous legion.

"USAGE Historically, the meaning of the word decimate is 'kill one in
every ten of (a group of people).' This sense has been superseded by
the later, more general sense 'kill or destroy a large percentage or
part of,' as in: the virus has decimated the population. Some
traditionalists argue that this and other later senses are incorrect,
but it is clear that these extended senses are now part of standard
English. It is sometimes also argued that decimate should refer to
people and not to things or animals such as weeds or insects. It is
generally agreed that decimate should not be used to mean 'defeat
utterly.'"

 

[nash]

SO
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:11:14 GMT, "nash" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>As Frank Krygowski keeps pointing out, bicycling is a remarkably safe
>>activity for the general population.
>>
>>Carl,
>>I was talking about Dave's Reckoning and comparing it to China which I
>>still
>>think is true. no laws or signs just common sense
>
> Dear Nash,
>
> To jog your memory, here's your entire post:
>
> "Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
> injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
> knowledge. Anyone?"
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel

 

[nash]

And to think if everybody did the speed limit we would not need engineers,
behavioural psychologists and evolutionary botanists.

Basically, I believe if everyone did the speed limit and followed the rules
there would be 99% less accidents except those that you caused by yourself
to yourself.

 

[nash]

>>?>>> It does seem that the prosecuting attorney made a very poor choice in
> her choice of prosecution. Under U.S. law, the driver cannot be tried a
> second time for the same crime.

Seems to me like they made a very poor choice of careers!

 

[nash]

>
>
>>Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
>>injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
>>knowledge. Anyone?
>>
>
> a) you must be new here - claiming such a patently ridiculous
> statistic to be true without any proof is only employed by trolls and
> pro-helmet zealots; and
>
> b) "common knowledge" isn't either.

Google search 3rd entry
In Beijing, China, bicycle traffic constitutes more than 50% of passenger
transportation and more than 30% of traffic accident fatalities. Nearly 70%
of the traffic accidents were related to bicycles. The rate of fatalities
for bicyclists 60 and older is five times greater than the average. Farmers
have the greatest number of bicycle incidents. The peak hour for bicycle
accidents is usually 7:00 to 8:00 a.m., depending on the bicycle and
motorized vehicle traffic flows. Monday is the peak day for bicycle
accidents. It was also found that more bicycle accidents happened in July,
which is Beijing's tourism season. Generally speaking, roads and streets
with higher speed limits, such as arterials and rural highways, have higher
rates of bicycle accident fatalities. Bicycle accidents can be attributed to
many causes, including road and environmental conditions, traffic safety
measures, operations of motorized vehicles, and bicyclists' habits and
skills. The most pressing factor contributing to bicycle accidents is the
inadequate and insufficient facilities provided for bicyclists. To reduce
the annual toll of bicyclist injuries and fatalities, a number of
countermeasures, such as improvement of road and environmental conditions,
education in traffic laws, training in cycling, and use of helmet, are
recommended.

whole document here
http://pubsindex.trb.org/document/view/default.asp?lbid=451894

50% of population ride to work in Beijing
that enough for you citers.

 

[nash]

>
>
>>Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
>>injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
>>knowledge. Anyone?
>>
>
> a) you must be new here - claiming such a patently ridiculous
> statistic to be true without any proof is only employed by trolls and
> pro-helmet zealots; and
>
> b) "common knowledge" isn't either.

here is another from J. Hopkins U.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1380951

I could go on.

 

[John Everett]

On 1 Dec 2006 12:55:12 -0800, "Yarper" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
>to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
>http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2006/11/30/woman_is_sentenced_for_bicyclists_death

Note that this took place in Illinois, which has a history of
discounting the rights of cyclists. Note that the State's Attorney in
defending her decision to not press for a more serious charge said,
"...the driver could have no reasonable expectation of a bike on the
side of the road."

If you want another prime example of Illinois' official attitude with
respect to cyclists, do a Google search for "Boub Decision".

John Everett - Aurora, Illinois



jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] writes:
> On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 20:12:33 -0800, [email protected] (Tom Keats)
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>Subscribing to a newsgroup is cheaper than subscribing
>>to Mother Earth News.
>>
>>cheers,
>> Tom
>
> Dear Tom,
>
> Mother Earth News costs $10 per year:
>
> http://www.motherearthnews.com
>
> The cost of a computer, a telephone/dsl/cable connection to the
> internet, and the electric bill for running it all is an order of
> magnitude greater.

Not necessarily.
Heat, electricity & phone are all included in my $350/month rent
($325 in the summer, when the heat is off.) My current computer
was given to me by my SIL; my peripherals range from 9 to 13
years old. I have a dialup account with my local FreeNet. It's
adequate for UseNet access, email and occasional WWW research.

> Of course, you can use the public library computers, but the library
> usually has Mother Earth News for free, too.

One can also read MEN articles online, as well as other online
info (admittedly of varying verity and usefulness.)


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[Tim McNamara]

In article <[email protected]>,
John Everett <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 1 Dec 2006 12:55:12 -0800, "Yarper" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> >to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed
> >as working for a personal-injury law firm.
> >
> >http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2006/11/30/woman_is_sentenced_
> >for_bicy clists_death
>
> Note that this took place in Illinois, which has a history of
> discounting the rights of cyclists. Note that the State's Attorney in
> defending her decision to not press for a more serious charge said,
> "...the driver could have no reasonable expectation of a bike on the
> side of the road."
>
> If you want another prime example of Illinois' official attitude with
> respect to cyclists, do a Google search for "Boub Decision".


You mean the one that could be read as saying that bicyclists don't have
the right to ride on the roads?

 

[nash]

The J Hopkins document shows autos caused 63% of the accidents and bicyclist
the rest.
Most were farmers on bikes
Just read it for your own sake. Ignore the helmut and environmental
conditions summary prescribed by JHopkins

 

[nash]

"Boub Decision".

Sure is!