Big Guy Bike and Disc Brake Question

[Desert_wanderer]

I am finally getting back into riding and need to replace an 8 year old specialized hardrock which
has served me well as a commuter and moderate trail bike. I am 6"2' and 250lbs and always found the
21' frame a little cramped so I tried out a 23' Giant Yukon and it felt 100% better. No more feeling
like I'm over the bars too much. I wanted the 04 Hardrock but it felt exactly like my current bike
and specialized doesn't make a bigger frame.

What are the pro's and con's regarding disc brakes?

And do anyone large fellows here recommend any brand over another?

 

[crazy6r54]

Avid mech.

I MTB 2004

 

[Jd]

"desert_wanderer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<vqqYb.511$C21.110@fed1read07>...
> What are the pro's and con's regarding disc brakes?

Pros - better modulation, more powerful

Cons - in the hands of the inexperienced, they make it easy to skid, which destroys trails

JD

 

[D H]

"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "desert_wanderer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<vqqYb.511$C21.110@fed1read07>...
> > What are the pro's and con's regarding disc brakes?
>
> Pros - better modulation, more powerful
>
> Cons - in the hands of the inexperienced, they make it easy to skid, which destroys trails

I'm in agreement that you CAN skid pretty easily with good disc brakes, but in my experience,
what tends to cause more _unintended_ skidding is brakes that are insufficient in one way or
another. If brakes don't have good modulation (as you correctly noted, discs often have better
modulation), then riders cannot feel what is happening well enough and cannot control the amount
of braking force applied, leading to skids that were unintended. On the other hand, if brakes
have decent modulation but insufficient power, riders wind up skidding because they cannot seem
to apply enough force to get slowed down as soon as they wanted to, and finally they brake with
near-panic force, which inevitably leads to skidding. Both of these factors are certainly
affected by the amount of experience of the rider, and as you suggested, inexperience can
increase skidding, particularly if the brakes are very capable. In my experience, top quality
brakes (for the reasonably experienced rider) leads to _less_ skidding for those who are
conscious of the damage caused by skids and who thus avoid skidding if at all possible. However,
for those who are either unaware of the damage or who are simply stupid and don't care, it might
be good for them to be given the opportunity to ride without ANY brakes for a few good downhill
rides. I don't know if it would teach them much, but it would be fun to watch, at least for a
little while, and would possibly have the side benefit of reducing the "skidiot" population.
[With credit to JD, or whoever first came up with such an excellent term-analogy.] (Miss-spell
intended.)
--
D N I E T S Off to R the M __, D H

Reply to group. (Detestible spammers!)

 

[Bb]

On 17 Feb 2004 11:49:19 -0800, JD wrote:
> "desert_wanderer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<vqqYb.511$C21.110@fed1read07>...
>> What are the pro's and con's regarding disc brakes?
>
> Pros - better modulation, more powerful

Also, better in wet conditions. Dip the rim in some nasty mud, and rim brakes are inoperable for a
bit, but disc brakes should keep working (don't have them to validate this).

--
-BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

 

[x]

RE/
>What are the pro's and con's regarding disc brakes?

I'm about 220#. Disc brakes are a no-brainer for me - but YYMV.

One thing, just because I'm heavy, I thought I needed a 180mm disc on the front. In retrospect, I
think it was money (and interchangability) down the drain. I'd go for 160 front and rear unless I
were doing some much-more-radical descents than I do now.
--
PeteCresswell

 

[G.T.]

(Pete Cresswell) wrote:
> RE/
>
>>What are the pro's and con's regarding disc brakes?
>
>
> I'm about 220#. Disc brakes are a no-brainer for me - but YYMV.
>
> One thing, just because I'm heavy, I thought I needed a 180mm disc on the front. In retrospect, I
> think it was money (and interchangability) down the drain. I'd go for 160 front and rear unless I
> were doing some much-more-radical descents than I do now.

Yeah, I was going to get 185s but the Avids weren't readily available so I got 160s. For my riding
and 220 lbs they're much, MUCH better than I expected.

Greg

--
"Destroy your safe and happy lives before it is too late, the battles we fought were long and hard,
just not to be consumed by rock n' roll..." - The Mekons

 

[Di]

"desert_wanderer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:vqqYb.511$C21.110@fed1read07...
> I am finally getting back into riding and need to replace an 8 year old specialized hardrock which
> has served me well as a commuter and moderate trail bike. I am 6"2' and 250lbs and always found
> the 21' frame a little cramped so I tried out a 23' Giant Yukon and it felt 100% better. No more
> feeling like I'm over the bars too much. I wanted the 04 Hardrock but it felt exactly like my
> current bike and specialized doesn't make a bigger frame.
>
> What are the pro's and con's regarding disc brakes?
>
> And do anyone large fellows here recommend any brand over another?
>
>

Go for them, you'll never regret it, but get quality ones. (6', 230 lbs here)

 

[x]

RE/
>Yeah, I was going to get 185s but the Avids weren't readily available so I got 160s. For my riding
>and 220 lbs they're much, MUCH better than I expected.

Another (purely intuitive - no data whatsoever) observation: Seems to me like the smaller the
diameter, the less prone a disc is to getting bash-induced irregularities - both from the exposure
and strength/leverage perspectives.

OTOH, it also seems like the infamous ejection factor would become less as the disc diameter is
increased.
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Desert_wanderer]

Thank you all very much for all the great advice.

M

"desert_wanderer" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:vqqYb.511$C21.110@fed1read07...
> I am finally getting back into riding and need to replace an 8 year old specialized hardrock which
> has served me well as a commuter and moderate trail bike. I am 6"2' and 250lbs and always found
> the 21' frame a little cramped so I tried out a 23' Giant Yukon and it felt 100% better. No more
> feeling like I'm over the bars too much. I wanted the 04 Hardrock but it felt exactly like my
> current bike and specialized doesn't make a bigger frame.
>
> What are the pro's and con's regarding disc brakes?
>
> And do anyone large fellows here recommend any brand over another?

 

[x]

RE/
>Thank you all very much for all the great advice.

Consider open vs closed systems.

I like my Hope C2 closed system brakes because I like to fiddle with the adjustment as I ride.

Others like an open system for the opposite reason.

The front brake on one of my bikes is a Hope C2 (hydraulic). On the other bike it's an Avid mech.
Both 185mm discs.

It's pretty clear to me that the hydraulics have an edge over mechs...but that's not to take
anything away from the performance/feel of Avid mechs - they *are* pretty good.

OTOH, my Avids have this little spring clip that holds the pads in place - which can get bent if a
wheel is inserted clumsely...and which will cause the pads to just fall out soon thereafter. Bad
design IMHO....OTOOH, maybe not everybody is as clumsey as Yours Truly.
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Small Black Dog]

G.T. wrote:
> (Pete Cresswell) wrote:
>
>> RE/
>>
>>> What are the pro's and con's regarding disc brakes?
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm about 220#. Disc brakes are a no-brainer for me - but YYMV.
>>
>> One thing, just because I'm heavy, I thought I needed a 180mm disc on the front. In retrospect, I
>> think it was money (and interchangability) down the drain. I'd go for 160 front and rear unless I
>> were doing some much-more-radical descents than I do now.
>
>
> Yeah, I was going to get 185s but the Avids weren't readily available so I got 160s. For my riding
> and 220 lbs they're much, MUCH better than I expected.
>
> Greg
>

bah, you *****,

you want 205mm front and 185mm rear a good set up pair of hopes like mine are the best hydraulic
discs i've ever felt. excellent modulation, definite 'bite' feel in the lever, both levers move the
same amount until they hit the bite point and they dont squeal 8)

Small Black Dog

 

[Westie]

(Pete Cresswell) wrote: <snip>
> OTOH, it also seems like the infamous ejection factor would become less as the disc diameter is
> increased.

That's a point. Did the problem fix itself or did it just go away? I haven't heard of anyone having
this problem for months now. I would have thought that it would have been happening more often with
all those new bikes and their disc brakes purchased over the Xmas period.
--
Westie (Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)

 

[Chris Phillipo]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> (Pete Cresswell) wrote: <snip>
> > OTOH, it also seems like the infamous ejection factor would become less as the disc diameter is
> > increased.
>
> That's a point. Did the problem fix itself or did it just go away? I haven't heard of anyone
> having this problem for months now. I would have thought that it would have been happening more
> often with all those new bikes and their disc brakes purchased over the Xmas period.
>

All hype machines run out of gas rather quickly.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[x]

RE/
>That's a point. Did the problem fix itself or did it just go away? I haven't heard of anyone having
>this problem for months now.

Shhhhhhh!
--
PeteCresswell

 

[Jerry Everetts]

Speaking of Disc Brakes, I just put Disc Brakes on My Ellsworth Isis, I put a Avid Mechanical up
front, and a deore mechanical in the rear (don't ask!), anyway, I have put about 10 miles on the
bike since then, and the front brake still seems really weak, my LBS helped me set it up, so I am
quite sure it is adjusted correctly, I am using LX levers. when I first put them on I did some VERY
hard stops, I used to be able to do stoppies while riding urban and at the skate park with my v-
brakes, but these don't seem to have the power to stop the front wheel to endo, is it possible I
glazed the pads/rotor? do I have to wait longer for break-in? The deore brake will lock the rear
wheel effortlessly Jerry

 

[x]

RE/
> is it possible I glazed the pads/rotor? do I have to wait longer for break-in? The deore brake
> will lock the rear wheel effortlessly

I'm convinced that *something* happens to some pads/rotors.

I've got two wheelsets that are interchangable between my FS (also an Isis) and hardtail.

On the FS it is impossible for me to lock the rear wheel on pavement (Hope C2). I don't consider
this to be a problem because that's not something I want to do anyhow....and, used as a fine-tuning
supplement to the front brake, the rear is plenty strong.

On the hardtail, I can lock the rear wheel with only a moderate squeeze of the handles. Same tires,
same wheels, same rotors - I can swap rear wheels and the problem persists.

In my case, one possibility is the different pad compounds. In fact, one thing I'd fault the Avids
for is that the front brake is a little grabby.

--
PeteCresswell