Biggest Cycling Tour in Asia

[Dunners Dan]

Tour of Qinghai Lake - CHINA UCI 2.HD: PREVIEW

This is the highest multi-stage Tour in the world with an average elevation of 3,000m. Imagine what it is like to race at altitude - with 20-40% less oxygen! It ranks up there with Tour Langkawi.

This article is a preview of the Tour which will begin this Friday 16th July:

China: Preview of 2010 Tour Qinghai Lake

Daily reports and photographs will be up on Cyclingnewsasia - Home

Further pictures will be posted on Bikedan in Asia

 

[bubsy]

l was following some advicethat you gave recently on how to improve 1min power but the thread has been lost with the forum upgrade,so l was wondering if you would be so kind as to offer your advice just one more time.
 
Start with:
~30w above 1MP 15's on/off,or 30's on/off,or 45's on/off to build the capacity which l have started to do but that's all l can remember except for the very last part where you do something like 1min very hard 9:15 rest, 45's even harder and then rest for...?
then 30's even harder and rest then 15's as hard as you can or something like that.
It's the bit inbetween that l can't remember, and it's where l'm at now, l think you said to develope the power do x % of 1MP with a 1:3 work rest ratio,
can you fill in the blancs Obi One /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
 
Brian.

 

[fergie]

Think it was 60sec on 14min off, 45sec on 9min off, 30sec on 4:30 off trying at max power for each duration and then max efforts starting out at max power and trying to build to a new power PB with full recovery.
 
Kilo riders never do Kilos in training, they just hurt too much.

 

[steve]

Originally Posted by fergie .

Kilo riders never do Kilos in training, they just hurt too much.

serious?

 

[fergie]

Serious!

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by steve .




serious?

Have you ever tried riding a Kilo? I tried once and it just f**king sucked. The most painful 1min 14 I'd ever spent on a bike, well the last 30 seconds were pretty much the most painful time I'd ever spent on a bike including crashing into the side of a house going downhill....
 

 

[Chapeau!]

 

Originally Posted by fergie .

Kilo riders never do Kilos in training, they just hurt too much.

 
What?.
 
No specificity. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
 

 

[bubsy]

Originally Posted by fergie .

Think it was 60sec on 14min off, 45sec on 9min off, 30sec on 4:30 off trying at max power for each duration and then max efforts starting out at max power and trying to build to a new power PB with full recovery.
 
Kilo riders never do Kilos in training, they just hurt too much.

Ah! thats it, and there is even more rest than l remembered, which is great news, because after those 15's on/off it was at least 15-20min before l could muster up enough mojo to to go again.
Funny enough though the following day after the L6 work it was as if l had a fresh set of lungs and a new heart as l managed my usual 80min of SST in the 87-96% of FTP all done in 12 - 40min blocks at an unusually high cadence for me, but anything approaching 100% or more and the legs became heavy, this is not the first time l have felt great after destroying myself the day before doing L6 work.
The trick is though to match the great legs from one session and heart & lungs from another and put them together on game day.
 
Thanks for your help Fergie much appreciated. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
 

 

[fergie]

These types of efforts are finishers to a training programme and will bring you to a peak rapidly but it is not the type of effort that can be sustained for long or should be practised all year long. Like the Kilo these things are better included as part of racing because when done properly can really do your head in.

 

[bubsy]

Originally Posted by fergie .

These types of efforts are finishers to a training programme and will bring you to a peak rapidly but it is not the type of effort that can be sustained for long or should be practised all year long. Like the Kilo these things are better included as part of racing because when done properly can really do your head in.

Understood.
 
I have never really focussed much on these types of efforts, l kid you not l have had more 4th place finishes in my racing than 5th - lasts and l think that this maybe the answer.
l have a pretty poor sprint and nothing I've done in the last ~6yrs has improved it much at all, IMO you either have it or you don't.
 
Attacking over and over again softening the legs of the sitters on before the final sprint has helped me place high in almost all the races l do but l never win a sprint and l believe this maybe the missing arrow in my quiver.
I'll report back in few weeks on my progress.
 
Thanks again.
Brian.

 

[fergie]

Wise. In fact for a roadie I would suggest that training for race winning speed be based on around 30-90sec power rather than <30sec power. Unless you can soft pedal all the way to the final 200m (a certain Manx Missiles favoured tactic) it is more likely your finishing effort will be a matter of anaerobic capacity rather than neuromuscular power. Based on the SRM files of several riders I coach they use a lower % of their max power in the final sprint (or start for track events) as the distance increases.
 
If it is a case of going from 4th to 1st then I say go for it. If it was 10th to first I might suggest you select events that are more suited to your abilities or adopt different tactics.

 

[Chapeau!]

 

Originally Posted by bubsy .

l have a pretty poor sprint and nothing I've done in the last ~6yrs has improved it much at all, IMO you either have it or you don't
Attacking over and over again softening the legs of the sitters on before the final sprint has helped me place high in almost all the races l do but l never win a sprint and l believe this maybe the missing arrow in my quiver.
I'll report back in few weeks on my progress.
 
Thanks again.
Brian.

 

To be a faster sprinter you need to supplement your aerobic work (with anaerobic).
 
Impossible to be a GREAT sprinter without training that system, whether on the bike Bauge, Hoy, Pendleton, Meares etc or on foot, Bolt, Gay, Radcliffe, Bekele, Greene etc.
 
You need to develop the ability to generate great force, to produce great velocity, to push the bigger gears more rapidly. Specificity (alone) doesn't cut it for world class (short) speed.

 

[fergie]

Just looking at the SRM files from one of my guys who is training for the Kilo. His power to weight for 60sec has increased 19% in 5 months on a diet of efforts based at Kilo power or lower. Of course leading into the Kilo event we will be looking to do more work at Kilo pace or slightly above. I once made the mistake of overdoing 50m standing starts in training and my riders had the best first lap but then the slowest last lap. Doh. Corrected that and now they target getting to Kilo speed as fast as possible but no faster and find they can hold on better. This year one of my guys improved 9% in his Kilo time based on Teams Pursuit training and Road Racing. He is now focusing on Stage Racing so the emphasis changes to sustained power for far longer durations. On the track we do progressive efforts like 60sec or 4 laps of a 250m track at going 85% for 15sec, 90% for 15sec, 95% for 15sec and 100% to finish to drill in the pacing and building over the ride. Same for Pursuit. This is the way sprinting, Keirin is heading with shorter tracks and Pursuiting has always been. At Worlds it's very rare to see the cat and mouse tactics and riders build to ever faster speeds and rarely jump they way they used to on bigger tracks. This is reflected in the bigger gears sprinters use these days in much the same way road sprinters do. Greg Henderson said most sprinters will ride 54x11 to the line when in the past where lead out trains were not as coordinated as they are now and riders used smaller gears and jumped harder towards the end. Lutz Hesslich used to sprint on a 88-90" gear and now riders like Hoy and Sirreau ride 102" gears and just wind up harder for longer.
 
Point being, have to know your event to train specifically for it.
 
Edit: Apologies for replying to my own post but I was looking at the files and thought it was a good case study.

 

[gregf83]

Originally Posted by bubsy .

Attacking over and over again softening the legs of the sitters on before the final sprint has helped me place high in almost all the races l do but l never win a sprint and l believe this maybe the missing arrow in my quiver.

Maybe you need to start thinking like a sprinter. They generally try to do as little as possible before the final sprint. Attacking over and over again can't be leaving you with very fresh legs at the end.

 

 

[bubsy]

Originally Posted by gregf83 .



Maybe you need to start thinking like a sprinter. They generally try to do as little as possible before the final sprint. Attacking over and over again can't be leaving you with very fresh legs at the end.

 

 
Nope! Played that card for far too long with pathetic results.
If my legs are fresh so are everybody elses.
In the race series l'm currently doing there are few if any attacks everyone seems to sit it and wait for the final sprint and if that's how it plays out then l end up as pack fodder, too many decent sprinters to contend with.
Case in point last saturday week, l kept leaping off the front into a cross wind then guys would come accross in dribs'n drabs and start working with me, forcing the main bunch to respond and this was shelling some riders and by the the apparent lack of people contesting the final sprint for 1st -3rd (5 of us) most were already in severe oxygen debt and had nothing left in the dying 200m as the pace was too high for the last 5km.
Every race plays out different and my tactics will vary week to week depending on the tactics of others the terrain and weather conditions, don't get me wrong being up there and mixing it up in the dying minutes of a race is a blast and it's my aerobic fitness that gets me there but it would be nice to podium in road races a bit more often.
Road races are just too much fun, sitting in for 2 or more hours waiting to reach the finish line for 15'sec of adrenaline isn't what will keep me coming back, so many missed opportunities along the way.
 
Thanks your input though. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
 

 

[fergie]

Yeah, seem power data for a Kiwi riding the U23 Flanders and Rouabix. Both times sprinting for a top 10 placing. Neither topped 1000 watts so well below his max power and Roubaix clearly the harder race as his peak power in the sprint was 100 watts less than Flanders. Hence my suggestion that coming into your goal races to include some 1min power work to allow you to finish things off.
 
Yeah that is the problem with getting to the finish with too many fresh riders. Unless you have a HTC like lead out train it's too hard to control. Hence the greater variety of winners in the Giro where they don't usually start winding up the pace till the final hour where in the Tour there are always breaks to chase down and the standard of racing is higher.
 
There is always a limited amount of time that one to devote to training (even the Pro's) so it's best to select training forms that prepare you for how you plan to race.

 

[CalicoCat]

 

Originally Posted by bubsy .



 
Nope! Played that card for far too long with pathetic results.
If my legs are fresh so are everybody elses.
In the race series l'm currently doing there are few if any attacks everyone seems to sit it and wait for the final sprint and if that's how it plays out then l end up as pack fodder, too many decent sprinters to contend with.
Point in case last saturday week, l kept leaping off the front into a cross wind then guys would come accross in dribs'n drabs and start working with me, forcing the main bunch to respond and this was shelling some riders and by the the apparent lack of people contesting the final sprint for 1st -3rd (5 of us) most were already in severe oxygen debt and had nothing left in the dying 200m as the pace was too high for the last 5km.
Every race plays out different and my tactics will vary week to week depending on the tactics of others the terrain and weather conditions, don't get me wrong being up there and mixing it up in the dying minutes of a race is a blast and it's my aerobic fitness that gets me there but it would be nice to podium in road races a bit more often.
Road races are just too much fun, sitting in for 2 or more hours waiting to reach the finish line for 15'sec of adrenaline isn't what will keep me coming back, so many missed opportunities along the way.
 
Thanks your input though. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
 

My sprint isn't my strong suit either, although I have been working on it, and it is getting better. And I totally feel you on those races where everyone sits in waiting for the sprint. I don't do well in those races, and they are generally boring races. Even if I know it's futile and I won't get away, I find myself attacking mid-race just to mix things up and keep everyone on their toes, so-to-speak. If nobody counters, I have even been known to counter my own attacks. When I do that, I usually know that I am sabotaging my chances at a good finish, but justify it in my mind by thinking that it could help my teammates when it comes to contesting the final sprint ( . . . but I have been known to attack even when I don't have teammates in the field).
 
That being said, my only win this year was in a race where I was one of those folks who sat in most of the race. I did go for a prime just to test my legs (and the field), and then managed win the race in a field sprint. Got me thinking that my sprint isn't all that horrible, but that I tend to come into the finishing straight with legs that are just too dead from all the attacking I did throughout the race.
 

 

[Felt_Rider]

I ask this because I as an onlooker I am simpleton to racing tactics since I do not race.
 
Is this related to burning matches where each of us has a match book with "x" amount and the attacks during the race will exhaust those available making it near impossible to sprint at the end if there are non available?
 
Of course I know each of you that race probably work on that aspect of increasing the match book so I am just asking if because I am trying to learn about match books. I assume it a matter of changing both tactics and training to increase the match book? And perhaps a "roll of the dice" in hopes that the attack will work in your favor.
 
I know about where my AWC is and try to watch my PM during a spirited group ride, but over a course of many miles it is still hard to keep track of how many times I hit that mark in attempt to keep track of how many matches I may have burned.
 

 

[fergie]

I think there is a difference between the attacking to put the hurt on, split the bunch or make a solo move to the power you need to lay down in the final moments of the race.
 
As mentioned doing a full noise Kilo is a rather unpleasant experience and giving all or nothing with the finish line in sight is similar. If one was to make this type of effort before the finish they wouldn't be able to sustain the move. Better to manage the energy (burn ya matches) more wisely over the race. I am the big fan of the soft attack, going that little harder over the top of a climb, using technique through a corner, counter-attacking. This way you save your energy for the final moments of the race.
 
This also applies on the track in Points Races where at times it pays to use good positioning or the Match Sprint where recovery between rounds (especially best of 3 ride finals) is crucial and a handy tactic for Kilo sprinter type is to take the pure Sprinter really long each ride to wear them right down or even to wear them down if they will face a team mate in the next round.

 

[DancenMacabre]

Fergie....
 
The RR'ing dimension is quite familiar to me, but I am curious about something with regards to your comments on match sprinting at the track, where I have less experience. You alluded to 'kilo sprinter' types taking the "sprinter" types long.
 
Might this be one reason you have mentioned the importance of 20-30 second power as opposed to 5 second power?
 
Also, to play devil's advocate....if I had a superb jump and were in a best of 3 match sprint against a pursuit or kilo type sprinter....then why not just stay close and draft them until say, turn 3 and then sprint past them?
 
As is, I don't have a superb jump so the only chance would be to sprint in the manner you described initially (sprint long to try and wear down the more fast-twitchers). The thing is, I suspect this tactics becomes easy to identify if every sprint you jump with a full lap to go.

Originally Posted by fergie .

I think there is a difference between the attacking to put the hurt on, split the bunch or make a solo move to the power you need to lay down in the final moments of the race.
 
As mentioned doing a full noise Kilo is a rather unpleasant experience and giving all or nothing with the finish line in sight is similar. If one was to make this type of effort before the finish they wouldn't be able to sustain the move. Better to manage the energy (burn ya matches) more wisely over the race. I am the big fan of the soft attack, going that little harder over the top of a climb, using technique through a corner, counter-attacking. This way you save your energy for the final moments of the race.
 
This also applies on the track in Points Races where at times it pays to use good positioning or the Match Sprint where recovery between rounds (especially best of 3 ride finals) is crucial and a handy tactic for Kilo sprinter type is to take the pure Sprinter really long each ride to wear them right down or even to wear them down if they will face a team mate in the next round.

Felt....I certainly don't keep track of how many "matches" I've got in order to make decisions in a road race. Oftentimes a "match" and/or how many you can burn in a race, is related to your AWC.....but then how quickly you replenish the portion of AWC that can be replenished in the short-term, is a function of metabolic fitness. No doubt, there is a certain definition of what a "match" is, at least per TARWAPM but there are times when something much less than a 'match', by said definition, is enough to get the separation you need from the peloton or a fellow escapee if you are in a break....especially if the bunch or the rider in question are already at/near their limit or you are on a steadier climb.
 
Calico: +1, I hate those kinds of races also where everyone in the bunch knows it is going to be a sprint. I tend to think of them as 3 hours of parading and 30 seconds of racing. Not fun. Worst of all is how many times those that are strong/fit enough or are part of a team with numbers, to make the race lively are the ones who are doing the most negative racing and ensuring of the rather dull proceedings. Anyhoo...out of curiosity, was your "poor" sprint simply a matter of neglect or was it something you worked on but in which you saw little improvement for your efforts?