BigHa again

was thinking that our Newsgroup is really dumping on BigHa a bit too much (before) the 1st bent is
on the market. I do think it is okay to criticize the design or the design cost and even the website
for lacking specifications our group lives for reading, but taking shots at the owner may not be
such a cool move. I'd give BigHa time to evolve and ease off on the company and if it does crash and
burn...then we can all dance around the smouldering wreckage. We do however seem to be dancing
before the company sells their 1st bent. Who knows, someone might actually buy one of their bents
for $3K and most anything will set a high initial price and then have room to lower the price. You
start at a rock bottom price and try raising the price and you really get hammered for doing it.
Lots of us still see Red when we see the name Corvallis and take out the negative feelings we have
for BikeE on BigHa because they too are in Corvallis.

*some of what BigHa has in the way of rider safety and anti-theft will leak into other bent designs
in the future (or should leak). *$3K is NOT all that high, some Euro-bents approach that figure and
we R not dumping on them. *Nothing stopping BigHa from using the R&D for their Intro-Bent as the
base for future less costly bents. *Everyone is sooo eager to nail an American based company and
line up to buy bents made in Taiwan. Personally I think BigHa has Balls for creating a Home Grown
bent and NOT outsourcing everything to Taiwan and just slap a U.S. Flag on the boom and declare it
an American Made product.

I say we should give BigHa time to evolve and IF they turn out to be a success...great. IF they die,
lessons learned will assist the next guy who wants to start a business doing bents.

P.S. am doing a College course in the Fine Art of Grovelling...Grovel 101, how am I doing so far?

 

> was thinking that our Newsgroup is really dumping on BigHa a bit too much (before) the 1st bent is
> on the market. I do think it is okay to criticize the design or the design cost and even the
> website for lacking specifications our group lives for reading, but taking shots at the owner may
> not be such a cool move.

Reminiscent of Cannondale, eh?

> I'd give BigHa time to evolve and ease off on the company and if it does crash and burn...then we
> can all dance around the smouldering wreckage.

Again, reminiscent od C'dale.

Derek

 

See also "Recumbent, Cannondale", or, "if it's three grand there, it'll be three grand here.
In pounds"
<click>

Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I say we should give BigHa time to evolve and IF they turn out to be a success...great. IF they
> die, lessons learned will assist the next guy who wants to start a business doing bents.
>
> P.S. am doing a College course in the Fine Art of Grovelling...Grovel 101, how am I doing so far?
>

You may note that I haven't uttered a word of dissent about Bigha. I plan to eventually market a
niche product myself.

rorschandt

 

OK, I've been negative about BigHo er Bigha (See discussion group at BROL) but only because of the
way these guys (Bike E debacle) DUMPED on the recumbent industry, Bicycle shops that invested in
their bikes, (Only to be left holding a bunch of dead stock and warranty issues-now that must be
paid out of their own {Bicycle Shop Owners} pockets) and their previous FAITHFUL Bike E owners. Had
these guys done a little more to minimize their Bike E melt down, I might feel a little more
supportive of their new venture. But to regroup and come out with a new bike company, while their
old company is barely warm from it's death, is just not a COOL or respectable thing to me. Honestly
Joshua, if you were a Bike E owner, would you really trust buying a bike from a former bunch of
people that left you hanging? EZ Biker Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti, Tailwind and SOON, Bacchetta
Aero Pilot)

"Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> was thinking that our Newsgroup is really dumping on BigHa a bit too much (before) the 1st bent is
> on the market.

 

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> was thinking that our Newsgroup is really dumping on BigHa a bit too much (before) the 1st bent is
> on the market... *$3K is NOT all that high, some Euro-bents approach that figure and we R not
> dumping on them. *Everyone is sooo eager to nail an American based company and line up to buy
> bents made in Taiwan. Personally I think BigHa has Balls for creating a Home Grown bent and NOT
> outsourcing everything to Taiwan and just slap a U.S. Flag on the boom and declare it an American
> Made product.

A Lightning P-38 is selling between $2600 and $3500 and it has an American flag on the boom. So what
is all the flap about?
--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

 

Dean, lost your email and the one here doesn't work even removing the spam part. Send me! MikeB

 

Did anyone find the word, "recumbent," used at the BiGHA website? Bob Bryant

 

YOU'RE RIGHT! Just some BIG HO rolling around on the streets... ;-) <Laughter> EZ Biker Pompano
Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti, Tailwind and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)

"DrRecumbnt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Did anyone find the word, "recumbent," used at the BiGHA website? Bob Bryant

 

Well I did buy 2 ReBikes and that company went under, in fact I bought one ReBike (after) the
company went under. I have never been in love with BikeE even when it was still a going concern and
when they went glug I was ticked off, not at them going under, but the way they went under. BigHa
does have some of the BikeE staff, but I doubt any of the $ was shifted from BikeE to BigHa. We were
all told that BikeE was losing $ for years....but we never got to see the books to verify
that...never will.

As for would a BikeE owner buy a BigHa?...I doubt it.

BigHa has one big problem to live with and that is BikeE. IF I was BigHa I would have gotten out of
Dodge and started up BigHa in another time zone....just to distance BigHa from BikeE. BigHa's owner
has Balls to risk the farm with a startup company knowing so many people still mistrust anything
connected to BikeE and will for years to come.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- "EZ Biker " <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> OK, I've been negative about BigHo er Bigha (See discussion group at BROL) but only because of the
> way these guys (Bike E debacle) DUMPED on the recumbent industry, Bicycle shops that invested in
> their bikes, (Only to
be
> left holding a bunch of dead stock and warranty issues-now that must be
paid
> out of their own {Bicycle Shop Owners} pockets) and their previous
FAITHFUL
> Bike E owners. Had these guys done a little more to minimize their Bike E melt down, I might feel
> a little more supportive of their new venture. But to regroup and come out with a new bike
> company, while their old company
is
> barely warm from it's death, is just not a COOL or respectable thing to
me.
>

( Honestly Joshua, if you were a Bike E owner, would you really trust buying a
> bike from a former bunch of people that left you hanging?) EZ Biker Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR
> Ti, Tailwind and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)
>
>
> "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > was thinking that our Newsgroup is really dumping on BigHa a bit too
much
> > (before) the 1st bent is on the market.

 

I too have wondered what effect my pissing off too many people will have when I get my Niche Market
trikes to market. I hope people judge the product more than the Loon selling them, if not I'm toast.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
"rorschandt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
> > I say we should give BigHa time to evolve and IF they turn out to be a success...great. IF they
> > die, lessons learned will assist the next guy who wants to start a business doing bents.
> >
> > P.S. am doing a College course in the Fine Art of Grovelling...Grovel 101, how am I doing so
> > far?
> >
>
> You may note that I haven't uttered a word of dissent about Bigha. I plan to eventually market a
> niche product myself.
>
> rorschandt

 

BIG HAHA is more like it.

c'mon folks, who's going to pay 3K for this package of bells and whistles? Not too many people,
that's who. Bike E went bankrupt for exactly that reason. More bun than meat.

The site sure is purty. (more bun than meat.) Flashy graphics. Vague new-age affirmations of self
and spirit. Keep 'em, folks.

Next, the site is full of BS that the average 'bent enthusiast knows to be BS. For example, "longer
chains are hard to shift," therefore ours is chopped in two." Who say's they're hard to shift? I got
no problems with the 483 feet of chain on my Rans Rocket.

Disc brakes? Nice yes, necessary? Puhleeze.

The computer looks interesting. I'll bet they could make more money marketing just that (perhaps
with tack-on signals, etc.) for $150 a pop than they can selling the whole bike.

Anyway, to answer my own question: who will pay 3K for a 'bent? Answer: 'bent enthusiasts in search
of the best machines. Unless this thing offers some really surprising performance, you won't see too
many enthusiasts flocking to it.

And I agree with the folks who would be down on the same crowd that dropped their last failed
venture, only to start another with the same mistakes. (If that's who's behind this bike.)

Nice hype. Let's see the bike -- somewhere other than in the Sharper Image... If it's fast and
flawless, we'll all be lining up with our fistfulls of money, I'll bet. If it's as advertised, I
don't think they'll be around long.

PS, the January 2003 issue of Bike Retailer shows that cycling participation in 2001 was at a ten
year low. And it doesn't look to have increased since. Their analysis is that retailers aren't
going to get a lot of newcomers, and need to rely on marketing to the enthusiasts, whose numbers
are steady.

 

I agree with Seth entirely. I can't believe anyone who knows of BikeE's history and connections to
BigHA would consider buying anything from them, no matter how good it was. BikeE basically said
"Fuck You" to all their customers and retailers, why would anyone want to support the same people
all over again? I for one predict terrible failure and more money down the tubes, if they asked any
of the industry insiders they would say the same. Seems like their strengths are flashy electronics
and marketing, just like the slot machines they sell.

"Seth Jayson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> BIG HAHA is more like it.
>
> c'mon folks, who's going to pay 3K for this package of bells and whistles? Not too many people,
> that's who. Bike E went bankrupt for exactly that reason. More bun than meat.
>
> The site sure is purty. (more bun than meat.) Flashy graphics. Vague new-age affirmations of self
> and spirit. Keep 'em, folks.
>
> Next, the site is full of BS that the average 'bent enthusiast knows to be BS. For example,
> "longer chains are hard to shift," therefore ours is chopped in two." Who say's they're hard to
> shift? I got no problems with the 483 feet of chain on my Rans Rocket.
>
> Disc brakes? Nice yes, necessary? Puhleeze.
>
> The computer looks interesting. I'll bet they could make more money marketing just that (perhaps
> with tack-on signals, etc.) for $150 a pop than they can selling the whole bike.
>
> Anyway, to answer my own question: who will pay 3K for a 'bent? Answer: 'bent enthusiasts in
> search of the best machines. Unless this thing offers some really surprising performance, you
> won't see too many enthusiasts flocking to it.
>
> And I agree with the folks who would be down on the same crowd that dropped their last failed
> venture, only to start another with the same mistakes. (If that's who's behind this bike.)
>
> Nice hype. Let's see the bike -- somewhere other than in the Sharper Image... If it's fast and
> flawless, we'll all be lining up with our fistfulls of money, I'll bet. If it's as advertised, I
> don't think they'll be around long.
>
> PS, the January 2003 issue of Bike Retailer shows that cycling participation in 2001 was at a ten
> year low. And it doesn't look to have increased since. Their analysis is that retailers aren't
> going to get a lot of newcomers, and need to rely on marketing to the enthusiasts, whose numbers
> are steady.

 

I'll never forget how these people lied to us right here in this newsgroup about why BikeE wasn't
asnwering their phone or email. Just moving to new offices. Yeah right. Why should we believe
anything they say now?

Joshua Goldberg wrote:
>
> Well I did buy 2 ReBikes and that company went under, in fact I bought one ReBike (after) the
> company went under. I have never been in love with BikeE even when it was still a going concern
> and when they went glug I was ticked off, not at them going under, but the way they went under.
> BigHa does have some of the BikeE staff, but I doubt any of the $ was shifted from BikeE to BigHa.
> We were all told that BikeE was losing $ for years....but we never got to see the books to verify
> that...never will.
>
> As for would a BikeE owner buy a BigHa?...I doubt it.
>
> BigHa has one big problem to live with and that is BikeE. IF I was BigHa I would have gotten out
> of Dodge and started up BigHa in another time zone....just to distance BigHa from BikeE. BigHa's
> owner has Balls to risk the farm with a startup company knowing so many people still mistrust
> anything connected to BikeE and will for years to come.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> - "EZ Biker " <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > OK, I've been negative about BigHo er Bigha (See discussion group at BROL) but only because of
> > the way these guys (Bike E debacle) DUMPED on the recumbent industry, Bicycle shops that
> > invested in their bikes, (Only to
> be
> > left holding a bunch of dead stock and warranty issues-now that must be
> paid
> > out of their own {Bicycle Shop Owners} pockets) and their previous
> FAITHFUL
> > Bike E owners. Had these guys done a little more to minimize their Bike E melt down, I might
> > feel a little more supportive of their new venture. But to regroup and come out with a new bike
> > company, while their old company
> is
> > barely warm from it's death, is just not a COOL or respectable thing to
> me.
> >
>
> ( Honestly Joshua, if you were a Bike E owner, would you really trust buying a
> > bike from a former bunch of people that left you hanging?) EZ Biker Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR
> > Ti, Tailwind and SOON, Bacchetta Aero Pilot)
> >
> >
> > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > was thinking that our Newsgroup is really dumping on BigHa a bit too
> much
> > > (before) the 1st bent is on the market.
> >

 

"Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>
> I'll never forget how these people lied to us right here in this newsgroup about why BikeE wasn't
> asnwering their phone or email. Just moving to new offices. Yeah right. Why should we believe
> anything they say now?

For pete's sake, you guys need to lighten up. You sound like Dubya talking about Saddam

--

Brian Rost
Stargen, Inc.

**********************************************************************

 

Lorenzo enlighten me, if you had a business that was about to go glug and you had a warehouse of
unsold product, you had hundreds of units in dealer stores (on extended credit), would you answer
the telephone and emails with something like...Hi There, our company has just bought the farm...have
a nice day. BikeE went under June 12, they kept the lights on till Aug.23 to windup the business,
get some $ back from dealers, transfer their A/R to a collection firm, ship out what was left etc.
then turn off the lights one last time.

Yeah they lied from June 12 till August 23 and THAT was not a good thing to do and hopefully they'll
burn in hell for it, but what was the alternative left open to them?...was Honesty an option at that
point with $ not yet coming back for product sent out.

The executives from BikeE crossed the road to BigHa, does it follow that BigHa is doomed because of
this? I used to go into companies that had bought the farm and try and figure out what they did
wrong and see what can be salvaged from the carnage. What BikeE did was NOT that unusual for a
business about to fold up their tent.

I'd be curious just how much John Acres was involved with BikeE over the years, but it is really
none of my business. BikeE tried to stay afloat despite heavy losses...and the BikeE Executive kept
the company going, maybe this element is what made them desireable workers for John Acres to have
working for him. BikeE got hammered by back to back recalls in an economy that was faultering. I
have no doubt BikeE made their fair share of Bonehead mistakes over the last few years...who hasn't?

I Just think that BigHa has a better chance of making $ with Execs onside who kept BikeE going
as long as they did. IMHO-IF BigHa goes glug it will be a waste...NOT Karma for what happened
with BikeE.

Oh Yeah....speaking of Bush and Saddam, anyone find it at all curious Bush just Okay'd a deal to buy
500,000 barrels of Oil from Saddam. ----Forget Iraq and Think about Yemen----

"Brian Rost" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
> >
> > I'll never forget how these people lied to us right here in this newsgroup about why BikeE
> > wasn't asnwering their phone or email. Just moving to new offices. Yeah right. Why should we
> > believe anything they say now?
>
> For pete's sake, you guys need to lighten up. You sound like Dubya talking about Saddam
>
> --
>
> Brian Rost
> Stargen, Inc.
>
> **********************************************************************

 

Joshua Goldberg wrote:
>
> Lorenzo enlighten me, if you had a business that was about to go glug and you had a warehouse of
> unsold product, you had hundreds of units in dealer stores (on extended credit), would you answer
> the telephone and emails with something like...Hi There, our company has just bought the
> farm...have a nice day. BikeE went under June 12, they kept the lights on till Aug.23 to windup
> the business, get some $ back from dealers, transfer their A/R to a collection firm, ship out what
> was left etc. then turn off the lights one last time.
>
> Yeah they lied from June 12 till August 23 and THAT was not a good thing to do and hopefully
> they'll burn in hell for it, but what was the alternative left open to them?...was Honesty an
> option at that point with $ not yet coming back for product sent out.
>
> The executives from BikeE crossed the road to BigHa, does it follow that BigHa is doomed because
> of this? I used to go into companies that had bought the farm and try and figure out what they did
> wrong and see what can be salvaged from the carnage. What BikeE did was NOT that unusual for a
> business about to fold up their tent.
>
> I'd be curious just how much John Acres was involved with BikeE over the years, but it is really
> none of my business. BikeE tried to stay afloat despite heavy losses...and the BikeE Executive
> kept the company going, maybe this element is what made them desireable workers for John Acres to
> have working for him. BikeE got hammered by back to back recalls in an economy that was
> faultering. I have no doubt BikeE made their fair share of Bonehead mistakes over the last few
> years...who hasn't?
>
> I Just think that BigHa has a better chance of making $ with Execs onside who kept BikeE going
> as long as they did. IMHO-IF BigHa goes glug it will be a waste...NOT Karma for what happened
> with BikeE.
>

So you are saying that you will lie to your customers and dealers if it is in your best interest?
Silence would have been deceptive. Their overtly lying to people who they had contractional
relationships with might have actionable had there been anything left after they looted the company.
Honesty is always a option even if it is one that businessmen don't choose very often. Will you do
business with people who you know have lied to you? I won't.

But when Bigha goes under, it won't be because of the lack of ethics among it's executives. It will
be because it's enormously overpriced and not suited for it's target market.

Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

A prayer for our times: "…In this time of war against Osama bin Laden and the oppressive Taliban
regime - We are thankful that OUR leader isn't the spoiled son of a powerful politician from a
wealthy oil family who is supported by religious fundamentalists, operates through clandestine
organizations, has no resect for the democratic electoral process, bombs innocents, and uses war to
deny people their civil liberties. Amen." Aaron McGruder, Boondocks comic strip

 

Brian Rost <[email protected]> wrote in news:3E49869D.66255757 @stargen.com:

> "Lorenzo L. Love" wrote:
>>
>> I'll never forget how these people lied to us right here in this newsgroup about why BikeE wasn't
>> asnwering their phone or email. Just moving to new offices. Yeah right. Why should we believe
>> anything they say now?
>
> For pete's sake, you guys need to lighten up. You sound like Dubya talking about Saddam
>

Gawd, no sheet! There are what 100? 200? people that visit this website? You think OTHER people have
ANY idea what went on? I bet you that 99% of existing BikeE owners have NO idea of anything BIkeE
did during their fall. I doubt if 90% of them even know they are out of business. You buy the BIKE!
They didn't come and take them back when they went under did they??? Get real......

 

Methinks the chances of the average BigHa buyer:

a. knowing that some BigHa personnel had anything to do with BikeE, and/or
b. knowing that BikeE went titsup.com while keeping it in the dark for a couple of months

are slim. What Lorenzo said seems closer to the mark.

Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:03:37 -0500, "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote:

>The executives from BikeE crossed the road to BigHa, does it follow that BigHa is doomed
>because of this?

No. BigHa is doomed because their product will appeal to neither novice comfort bike users nor
experienced recumbent riders given that configuration and price. Not to mention the mail-order-only
thing. Big Ha indeed. I don't mean to slam the people that are dedicating their lives to this
project, but it's so clearly DOA that it's amazing they haven't already killed it.

-- Robert