BigHa again

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Joshua Goldberg, Feb 11, 2003.

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  1. Skip

    Skip Guest

    Two years in a start up business with two partners taught me a lot about risk and reward and
    provided me with an appreciation for those who can visualize a product or service, put their idea in
    to action, bring it to market, and make a profit by being of service to others. That would include
    those individuals who make it possible for us to ride more than one type of bicycle.

    Skip

    "rorschandt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]... <snip>
    > As I mentioned above, business is often risky.
     


  2. Skip

    Skip Guest

  3. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    skip wrote:
    >
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > Yes, life is hard for the CEOs of large corporations that make over 500 times the average wage
    > > of their hourly workers.
    >
    > Tom - You are going into re-runs. We know already.

    Skip,

    Well, I did not bring the subject up about how difficult life is for CEOs. As an extensive Google
    Groups search will reveal, I have not started any of these off-topic discussions on a.r.b.r., but
    have merely responded to those off topic discussions started by others.

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  4. "Edward Wong" skrev

    *snip*

    > Mr. Acres I wish you the best of success and should the venture not prosper to your intitial
    > expectations, it will NOT be because of any reasons anyone expounds in this newsgroup.

    You mean saying that we wouldn't touch it with a 7-foot pole because one can get a wide variety of
    great recumbent bikes for 3000 dollars and in some cases even have cash left over for accessories?

    It seems to me that listening to your potential costumers might be a good idea in any business. But
    apparently we are not his potential customers based on John Acres replies here. Who then?

    People that are new to recumbents? Maybe it can be done but 3000 is still going to make a lot run
    away screaming and get an entrylevel bent at an affordable price.

    I will be looking forward to BROLs next issue where we will get John Acres take on this. I will also
    look forward to a test of the bike. I still like the electronics part of it a lot.

    But saying we can't have an opinion on this unless we start our own recumbent business is quite
    frankly just you being as immature as you accuse us of being.

    Regards Mikael
     
  5. Skip

    Skip Guest

    Sorry if I misspoke Tom. I didn't do a Google search nor do I wish to one, but it seemed to me that
    you had posted this particular snippit about CEO's several times in the recent past. My apologies if
    this is first time for that one.

    To change the subject and to continue off topic, Fritz the Cat was screaming at me this morning and
    I had to make an emergency run to the grocery to get him some of his favorite stuff. In the grocery
    parking lot I saw a car with the bumper sticker "God Bless Everybody - No Exceptions". After I
    paused to reflect on the larger meaning of the message I started thinking of all the locals I
    consider to be super bigots and how much fun it would be to sneak one of these stickers on to the
    back bumpers of their cars.

    It's been raining for about 70 hours straight - better than snow I guess - anyway that's my excuse
    for overposting.

    Skip

    "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > skip wrote:
    > >
    > > <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > > Yes, life is hard for the CEOs of large corporations that make over
    500
    > > > times the average wage of their hourly workers.
    > >
    > > Tom - You are going into re-runs. We know already.
    >
    > Skip,
    >
    > Well, I did not bring the subject up about how difficult life is for CEOs. As an extensive Google
    > Groups search will reveal, I have not started any of these off-topic discussions on a.r.b.r., but
    > have merely responded to those off topic discussions started by others.
    >
    > Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  6. Mikael Seierup wrote:
    >
    > "Edward Wong" skrev
    >
    > *snip*
    >
    > > Mr. Acres I wish you the best of success and should the venture not prosper to your intitial
    > > expectations, it will NOT be because of any reasons anyone expounds in this newsgroup.
    >
    > You mean saying that we wouldn't touch it with a 7-foot pole because one can get a wide variety of
    > great recumbent bikes for 3000 dollars and in some cases even have cash left over for accessories?
    >
    > It seems to me that listening to your potential costumers might be a good idea in any business.
    > But apparently we are not his potential customers based on John Acres replies here. Who then?
    >
    > People that are new to recumbents? Maybe it can be done but 3000 is still going to make a lot run
    > away screaming and get an entrylevel bent at an affordable price.
    >
    > I will be looking forward to BROLs next issue where we will get John Acres take on this. I will
    > also look forward to a test of the bike. I still like the electronics part of it a lot.
    >
    > But saying we can't have an opinion on this unless we start our own recumbent business is quite
    > frankly just you being as immature as you accuse us of being.
    >
    > Regards Mikael

    That's the big question: who are Bigha's potential customers? It seems to be the comfort bike
    market. People in their 40's and 50's who haven't rode a bike since they were kids. So assuming they
    are sufficiently naive to pay twice the market cost for a bike of this type, they are going to get
    this bike shipped to them sight unseen, with no chance to test ride and no one to explain to them
    how to ride it and just pedal off? That's what they should be able to do on a comfort bike. Will
    they be able to do that on a Bigha? Remember the very first time you were on a recumbent? A little
    wobbly? Most of us probably fell a time or two. And most of us were probably experienced bike
    riders, most had a chance to test ride recumbents before buying. Now take someone who has not rode a
    bike of any kind for twenty years. We'll see how good Bigha's return policy is.

    Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

    "A people living under the perpetual menace of war and invasion is very easy to govern. It demands
    no social reforms. It does not haggle over expenditures on armaments and military equipment. It pays
    without discussion, it ruins itself, and that is an excellent thing for the syndicates of financiers
    and manufacturers for whom patriotic terrors are an abundant source of gain." Anatole France
     
  7. Larry Varney

    Larry Varney Guest

    rorschandt wrote:
    > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >
    >>Wow...I like this. The episode I was thinking of had the Enterprise almost colliding with a ship
    >>that had been in space 88 years. I love Star Trek, the ONLY thing worth watching since Dr.Who was
    >>pulled. Gawd I need a Life. I ride bents to avoid TV btw.
    >>
    >
    > Red Dwarf is quite hilarious. Unfortunately,my lame-assed PBS station doesn't agree.Smegheads.
    >
    > rorschandt
    >
    >
    >

    We mustn't forget Red Green, the best thing to come out of Canada since Moosehead beer.

    --
    Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY http://home.fuse.net/larryvarney
     
  8. "Lorenzo L. Love" skrev...
    > http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

    Speaking of Big Ha's I enjoyed the "Pilocene Pussycat Theory" immensely. :)

    It also made perfect sense. I guess I should be worried about that but right now I'll write it off
    to lack of sleep, mentally exhausting timecoding of subtitles and a mediocre white wine. Thats my
    excuse at least and I'm sticking to it. ;-)

    Mikael
     
  9. Ehm... Pliocene even.

    (see lack of sleep, wine etc.)
     
  10. Steve In Sc

    Steve In Sc Guest

    [email protected] (Seth Jayson) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > BIG HAHA is more like it.
    >
    > c'mon folks, who's going to pay 3K for this package of bells and whistles? Not too many people,
    > that's who. Bike E went bankrupt for exactly that reason.

    Seth. BikeE did NOT go bankrupt because no one bought their product. BikeE was the largest
    manufacturer of recumbents in the world. I suspect that BikeE failed primarily due to cash flow
    problems, and plain bad luck.

    The Federal and state goverments take our money through the force of law. Much of it is wasted. 15%
    of your income is confiscated, err...I mean collected, for "Social Security". Anyone under thirty
    five that thinks that they'll see a dime of that money is more than a prime candidate for a $3,000
    entry level recumbent.

    Big Ha is funded with private money. If they fail, it's no loss to any one on this board. Big Ha is
    presenting the market place with an option. We are free to buy or not as we wish. Some people may
    not like the Big Ha bike, but there is absolutely no excuse for hostility. Big Ha can not compell
    you to do anything. Personally, I enjoy having choices. Even if I chose something else.
     
  11. Edward Wong

    Edward Wong Guest

    > But saying we can't have an opinion on this unless we start our own recumbent business is quite
    > frankly just you being as immature as you accuse us of being.
    >
    > Regards Mikael

    Dear Mikael,

    Read my post again. No where did I imply that you can't have your opinion. I was merely stating my
    opinion and the way I see things. I didn't mention any names but by replying the way you did, it
    shows that a nerve has been struck and thus implicated yourself. Sorry but that's the way it is.

    Regards, Edward Wong Orlando, FL
     
  12. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    tamasic1 wrote:
    > ... No, is there a reason you can't read the entire post? Suffer from ADD? It's a comment on those
    > who are given everything, work at nothing and criticize those who make any attempt.

    I certainly fit the first two descriptions - heck, I have never even worked more than 3800 hours in
    one year. ;)

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  13. Paul Bruneau

    Paul Bruneau Guest

    tamasic1 wrote:

    > No, is there a reason you can't read the entire post? Suffer from ADD? It's a comment on those who
    > are given everything, work at nothing and criticize those who make any attempt.

    You can belittle me all you like to make yourself feel good or whatever. Have fun. Your post didn't
    read to me like that.
     
  14. Skip

    Skip Guest

    "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > tamasic1 wrote:
    > > ... No, is there a reason you can't read the entire post? Suffer from ADD? It's a comment on
    > > those who are given everything, work at nothing and criticize those who make any attempt.
    >
    > I certainly fit the first two descriptions - heck, I have never even worked more than 3800 hours
    > in one year. ;)
    >
    > Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

    Tom to my way of thinking it isn't so much how many hours you've managed to put in, but more what
    were the worthwhile contributions you made during that time.

    Skip
     
  15. "Edward Wong" skrev...

    > Read my post again. No where did I imply that you can't have your opinion. I was merely stating my
    > opinion and the way I see things. I didn't mention any names but by replying the way you did, it
    > shows that a nerve has been struck and thus implicated yourself. Sorry but that's the way it is.

    I just think the "do it yourself or you're not entitled to an opinion"-argument is a bit
    nonproductive no matter where it crops up. Thanks for a good laugh though. ;)

    Regards Mikael
     
  16. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    skip wrote:
    >
    > Tom to my way of thinking it isn't so much how many hours you've managed to put in, but more what
    > were the worthwhile contributions you made during that time.

    Skip,

    From the viewpoint of a modern economist, the value of a person's contribution can be measured
    solely in terms of financial returns to the employer from an individual's work versus the cost of
    the employee to the employer.

    When my chargability, total number of chargeable hours, book rate, and write-ups on the projects I
    manage is taken into account, I am actually quite a good employee. [1] There are other less tangible
    aspects also - in a business whose nature involves constantly changing overall workloads; the
    willingness of employees to take on additional workload at the times of higher business volume will
    prevent undesirable overstaffing during the times of lower business volume.

    [1] You didn't think I was hired for my personality, did you?

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)
     
  17. Skip

    Skip Guest

    "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > skip wrote:
    > >
    > > Tom to my way of thinking it isn't so much how many hours you've managed
    to
    > > put in, but more what were the worthwhile contributions you made during
    that
    > > time.
    >
    > Skip,
    >
    > From the viewpoint of a modern economist, the value of a person's contribution can be measured
    > solely in terms of financial returns to the employer from an individual's work versus the cost of
    > the employee to the employer.
    >
    > When my chargability, total number of chargeable hours, book rate, and write-ups on the projects I
    > manage is taken into account, I am actually quite a good employee. [1] There are other less
    > tangible aspects also - in a business whose nature involves constantly changing overall workloads;
    > the willingness of employees to take on additional workload at the times of higher business volume
    > will prevent undesirable overstaffing during the times of lower business volume.
    >
    > [1] You didn't think I was hired for my personality, did you?

    I don't care about that stuff. Sorry, but why should I? What I'm trying to get at is this - during
    those 3800 hours you spent working as a civil engineer last year you must have done something
    productive to contribute to the building of the infrastructure of this country. The projects you
    helped build are what I'd rather hear about. In my view your work on those projects is reflective of
    your contribution to society and not those overstaffing/understaffing, chargeable vs. total time
    type internal company concerns. It's the work you've done to build this country that I appreciate.
     
  18. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    skip wrote:
    >
    > I don't care about that stuff. Sorry, but why should I? What I'm trying to get at is this - during
    > those 3800 hours you spent working as a civil engineer last year you must have done something
    > productive to contribute to the building of the infrastructure of this country. The projects you
    > helped build are what I'd rather hear about. In my view your work on those projects is reflective
    > of your contribution to society and not those overstaffing/understaffing, chargeable vs. total
    > time type internal company concerns. It's the work you've done to build this country that I
    > appreciate.

    Skip,

    Quick correction - I did not work 3800 hours last year - the unofficial number is a few hundred
    lower, and the official number lower yet. I worked 3800 hours in 1995 when I was working full time
    plus at one low paying, dead end job and part time 30 to 35 hours a week at an even lower paying,
    more dead end job. On the bright side, I made almost $19,000 US after taxes.

    The reason I mentioned the financial aspects instead of the work I do is that financial results are
    what our society values.

    Think about it - when someone asks, "What is that man worth?" what he or she really wants to know is
    how much financial wealth he has.

    Tom Sherman - Recumbent Curmudgeon
     
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