bigha fan club

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Jim H, Feb 11, 2003.

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  1. Jim H

    Jim H Guest

    What a bunch of curmudgeons posting here! Bigha, a new company, announces an interesting, innovative
    and high-end recumbent. We stand and cheer, right? No, we climb over each other trying to pick it
    apart. Who needs a built-in horn - I'd rather have my little metal handbell. Integrated lights?
    Cheaper to duct-tape a flashlight to my head. They spent a lot of money designing a new seat - I
    guess we feel no further improvement is possible - so let's just close the Patent Office, like they
    talked about doing a centry ago. Flash web site? I'd rather just scroll text on my 286 PC.

    I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHa in the store soon. I think it will be really cool.
     
    Tags:


  2. John W

    John W Guest

    > I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHa in the store soon. I think it will
    be
    > really cool.
    >
    You will not see BigHa in any bike shop since they are selling directly over the Internet. Probably
    no bike shop would carry them after what BikeE did to the bike shops.
     
  3. "jim h" skrev...
    > No, we climb over each other trying to pick it apart. Who needs a built-in horn - I'd rather have
    > my little metal handbell.

    I just mentioned that because his reason for a horn seemed to be that he was tired of saying "on
    your left" all the time. So I let him in on that closely guarded secret we call a bell. ;o) And I'm
    talking a real bell here. Not those wussy little things that go <ding>. Is this "on your left"-thing
    an american quirk btw? Seems a tad silly.

    > Integrated lights? Cheaper to duct-tape a flashlight to my head.

    Nothing wrong with that either. I just wish they would solve the hairloss problem when you want to
    take it off at bedtime.

    > They spent a lot of money designing a new seat - I guess we feel no further improvement is
    > possible - so let's just close the Patent Office, like they talked about doing a centry ago. Flash
    > web site? I'd rather just scroll text on my 286 PC.

    Both bike and site looks okay to me. Not going to buy one though. But as John Acres said grumpy
    benters with experience and a few bikes under their belt isn't the people they are aiming for. I'd
    say they are going for the comfortbike-crowd. Comfortbikes are selling more and more here in Denmark
    AFAIK. (This is based rather unscientifically on the increasing number of these bikes that I have
    seen in bikeshops.)

    I would still like to see the electronics package sold separately. If theres vital stuff in the
    rear rack then design something that attaches under or on a standard rack maybe? (easy for me to
    say so I am).

    Mikael
     
  4. Carol Cohen

    Carol Cohen Guest

    Out of curiosity I tried to log on to bigha.com. My 56K modem works on everything else (I think) but
    all that came up was a blank page. Is this what you guys are ranting about under the Flash thread?

    Too bad for them - if they want my business they must speak my language. (56K dialup)

    C.C.

    > From: "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> Newsgroups: alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent Date:
    > Tue, 11 Feb 2003 21:50:36 +0100 Subject: Re: bigha fan club
    >
    >
    > "jim h" skrev...
    >> No, we climb over each other trying to pick it apart. Who needs a built-in horn - I'd rather have
    >> my little metal handbell.
    >
    > I just mentioned that because his reason for a horn seemed to be that he was tired of saying "on
    > your left" all the time. So I let him in on that closely guarded secret we call a bell. ;o) And
    > I'm talking a real bell here. Not those wussy little things that go <ding>. Is this "on your
    > left"-thing an american quirk btw? Seems a tad silly.
     
  5. Jim H

    Jim H Guest

    Yeah you have me there. I didn't notice that on my first reading of their site. In my opinion the
    "mail-order bride" marketing plan is not going to fly. But if the dealers see interest building
    maybe they'll forget about BikeE and work something out to get the machines in the stores.

    Very few people would order a $3,000 bike without riding it first - probably not without riding it
    more than once. And no local service? That shipping container had better be pretty good.

    "John W" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHa in the store soon. I think it will
    > be
    > > really cool.
    > >
    > You will not see BigHa in any bike shop since they are selling directly
    over
    > the Internet. Probably no bike shop would carry them after what BikeE did
    to
    > the bike shops.
     
  6. David Luecke

    David Luecke Guest

    > new seat - I guess we feel no further improvement is possible - so let's just close the Patent
    > Office, like they talked about doing a centry ago.

    As I understand it, no such thing was ever said in this context. The only matching quote known was
    of someone saying that the pace of invention was going too fast and needed to slow down so that the
    patent office could catch up. For in-depth reading, see http://www.myoutbox.net/posass.htm .

    --
    David Luecke Ridin' a RANS Vivo (wahoo!) Merritt Island, Florida USA
     
  7. in article [email protected], jim h at [email protected] wrote on
    2/11/03 5:12 PM:

    > But if the dealers see interest building maybe they'll forget about BikeE and work something out
    > to get the machines in the stores

    BigHa has no interest in selling to dealers. I can only speak for Calhoun Cycle, but we have no
    interest in BigHa. A $3,000 commuter that looks an awful lot like a $999 AT with a light. It's not
    what we would classify as high-end or high-value. We also wouldn't carry any brand that only
    warranties their frame for 5 years. Life-time warranty is the industry norm, and we expect nothing
    less of the brands we sell.

    It's too bad these guys couldn't take their experience from BikeE and get smarter. If it's possible,
    I think they got even dumber. It didn't have to be this way. Look at at the guys at Bachetta. They
    used their years of industry experience to built arguably the best new recumbent brand on the
    market. I think 'BigHa' next to a $2,700 Corsa, clearly lives up to it's name. Unfortunately, the
    joke is on the poor recumbent newbie who falls for their flash website.

    If I'm right, that'll be the second black eye these guys will have given to an industry we love.

    --

    Mary Breen Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders http://www.calhouncycle.com
     
  8. Mikeb

    Mikeb Guest

    > Very few people would order a $3,000 bike without riding it first - probably not without riding it
    > more than once. And no local service? That shipping container had better be pretty good.

    I have no concept of if they will make it or not, but I think you might be exactly 180 degrees off
    on that. Any RECUMBENT ENTHUSIAST would never spend 3k sight unseen, GIVEN THAT THERE AREN"T
    MULTIPLE NEW OWNERS PRAISING THE HECK OUT OF IT. (I think you might be surprised at the number of
    2-3k bikes purchased unseen). But those kinds of purchases are "usually" about performance bikes,
    the latest and greatest. But this isn't that kind of bike. I would think this is a bike to be in the
    Sharper Image catalog. FOr those trendy folks who have to have the latest electronic gadgets. THOSE
    folks are most likely to be wedgie riders if they ride at all, so a COMFORTABLE, INNOVATIVE,
    electronicaly interesting, bent MIGHT just be attractive. A similar market as the Cannondale but
    less importance on the bike and more on the features. JMO
     
  9. Al Kubeluis

    Al Kubeluis Guest

    Mary, Well said below regarding BigHa. I think that truthfulness and honesty in advertising products
    are essential also. Unsubstantiated claims regarding products that purport to enhance speed a
    specified mph are something in particular that we need to watch. If a product makes a specified
    speed enhancement claim as part of its advertising, then the manufacturer should provide data which
    support the claim. I lose respect for and trust of manufacturers who make, and retailers who
    blithely pass on, rather incredible claims of speed enhancements due to a product.
    ~~~al.kubeluis..md.usa.earth.sun.milkyway.virgo.universe..corsa~~~

    "Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders" <[email protected]> wrote
    2/11/03 5:12 PM:
    >
    > > But if the dealers see interest building maybe they'll forget about BikeE and work something out
    > > to get the machines in the stores
    >
    > BigHa has no interest in selling to dealers. I can only speak for Calhoun Cycle, but we have no
    > interest in BigHa. A $3,000 commuter that looks an awful lot like a $999 AT with a light. It's not
    > what we would classify as high-end or high-value. We also wouldn't carry any brand that only
    > warranties their frame for 5 years. Life-time warranty is the industry
    norm,
    > and we expect nothing less of the brands we sell.
    >
    > It's too bad these guys couldn't take their experience from BikeE and get smarter. If it's
    > possible, I think they got even dumber. It didn't have to be this way. Look at at the guys at
    > Bachetta. They used their years of industry experience to built arguably the best new recumbent
    > brand on the market. I think 'BigHa' next to a $2,700 Corsa, clearly lives up to it's name.
    > Unfortunately, the joke is on the poor recumbent newbie who falls
    for
    > their flash website.
    >
    > If I'm right, that'll be the second black eye these guys will have given
    to
    > an industry we love.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Mary Breen Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders http://www.calhouncycle.com
     
  10. Derek Swift

    Derek Swift Guest

    > I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHa in the store soon. I think it will be really cool.

    It would have to be amazing to see one in a store since they are not being sold there!

    I admit they sound neat and I would not mind a test ride...but $3,000 for an internet ordered bike
    with little or no specs available? Yeah, right.

    Derek
     
  11. Hmmmm. Lets us also consider some of the ... shall we say ... almost unbelievable speed claims that
    occasionally find their way onto this NG ... and come from folks who one would suspect can't
    possibly be in good enough shape to ... ahem ... accomplish what they said they accomplished.

    Present company (quite seriously) excepted !

    --
    Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush

    "Al Kubeluis" <[email protected]> wrote

    > I lose respect for and trust of manufacturers who make, and retailers who blithely pass on,
    > rather incredible claims of speed enhancements due
    to
    > a product.
     
  12. Drrecumbnt

    Drrecumbnt Guest

    Back in the late 80s and early 90s when I first started writing about recumbents, a large percentage
    of buyers bought their recumbents sight unseen. Though this has changed, it is stiff difficult to
    see some bikes before you buy them (without taking a trip).

    Bob Bryant http://www.recumbentcyclistnews.com
     
  13. "Calhoun Cycle > Recumbents & Folders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<BA6F0926.7E3D%[email protected]>...
    >
    > BigHa has no interest in selling to dealers. I can only speak for Calhoun Cycle, but we have no
    > interest in BigHa. A $3,000 commuter that looks an awful lot like a $999 AT with a light. It's not
    > what we would classify as high-end or high-value

    $3000. and not gold plated or bulletproof? That might not even sell to a Californian!!!

    Chris Jordan Santa Cruz, duh.., CA. ;-)
     
  14. John W

    John W Guest

    I ordered a Tour Easy direct from Easy Racers in 1993. There was just no Tour Easy dealers any where
    near St. Louis. I do not know if Tour Easy had any dealers at all a decade ago. If I remember right
    I believe Vision was the first 'bent company to sell through bike shops only. I had seen and rode a
    Tour Easy on Hoosier Hills ride so at least I knew what I was buying.

    "DrRecumbnt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Back in the late 80s and early 90s when I first started writing about recumbents, a large
    > percentage of buyers bought their recumbents sight
    unseen.
    > Though this has changed, it is stiff difficult to see some bikes before
    you buy
    > them (without taking a trip).
    >
    > Bob Bryant http://www.recumbentcyclistnews.com
     
  15. Bethf

    Bethf Guest

    "DrRecumbnt" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]

    > Though this has changed, it is stiff difficult to see some bikes before
    you buy
    > them (without taking a trip).

    yeh, what Bob said.
     
  16. Bentnut

    Bentnut Guest

    What I'd like to know... Who's making money off this? The web designer, the computer CAD guy, um,
    who else? Probably an executive or two. Is the company soley in existance to prey off of ignorant
    investors? It seems most people are in agreement that this project is dead before it's even started.
    Who's footing the bill? And why?

    I must say, I am extremely confused about this whole Bigha thing, from the name to everything else
    it really does seem like a big joke, only I don't get it.

    "jim h" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > What a bunch of curmudgeons posting here! Bigha, a new company, announces
    an
    > interesting, innovative and high-end recumbent. We stand and cheer, right? No, we climb over each
    > other trying to pick it apart. Who needs a built-in horn - I'd rather have my little metal
    > handbell. Integrated lights?
    Cheaper
    > to duct-tape a flashlight to my head. They spent a lot of money designing
    a
    > new seat - I guess we feel no further improvement is possible - so let's just close the Patent
    > Office, like they talked about doing a centry ago. Flash web site? I'd rather just scroll text on
    > my 286 PC.
    >
    > I'm looking forward to seeing a BigHa in the store soon. I think it will
    be
    > really cool.
     
  17. Jim H

    Jim H Guest

    My take on it is that it's just what it appears to be. Some former BikeE people are behind it, they
    found there wasn't enough money in low-end recumbents, so this time they're going all the way to the
    other end of the spectrum. There may be a market there, but it probably doesn't include a lot of
    current 'bent nuts like us who read Usenet postings. Other posters used the "Sharper Image" metaphor
    and that may be appropriate. While the machine might not seem cost-effective to us, its uniqueness
    and the flashy electronics may appeal to well-heeled buyers who like the high-tech image.

    BikeE lost the goodwill of the dealers so they're going to direct sales. Who knows, it may work and
    the people who buy the machines may end up liking them.

    At least they're not boring.

    > I must say, I am extremely confused about this whole Bigha thing, from the name to everything else
    > it really does seem like a big joke, only I don't get it.
     
  18. DrRecumbnt wrote:
    >
    > Back in the late 80s and early 90s when I first started writing about recumbents, a large
    > percentage of buyers bought their recumbents sight unseen. Though this has changed, it is stiff
    > difficult to see some bikes before you buy them (without taking a trip).
    >
    > Bob Bryant http://www.recumbentcyclistnews.com

    I'm a person who does buy bikes sight unseen. I live in an area where the closest thing to a bike
    dealer is Walmart and no one had a recumbent when I bought my first. I bought three different
    recumbents by mail without test riding, but with lots of research and recommendations. I've been
    very happy with two out of three. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again if I had a need. But there is
    no way in hell that I'm going to buy a Bighaha, not even if they reduced it to half the price which
    would make it more competitive with other manufacturers.

    Lorenzo L. Love http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

    "A people living under the perpetual menace of war and invasion is very easy to govern. It demands
    no social reforms. It does not haggle over expenditures on armaments and military equipment. It pays
    without discussion, it ruins itself, and that is an excellent thing for the syndicates of financiers
    and manufacturers for whom patriotic terrors are an abundant source of gain." Anatole France
     
  19. B. Sanders

    B. Sanders Guest

    > > I must say, I am extremely confused about this whole Bigha thing, from
    the
    > > name to everything else it really does seem like a big joke, only I
    don't
    > > get it.

    "jim h" replied:
    > My take on it is that it's just what it appears to be. Some former BikeE people are behind it,
    > they found there wasn't enough money in low-end recumbents, so this time they're going all the way
    > to the other end of the spectrum. There may be a market there, but it probably doesn't include a
    lot
    > of current 'bent nuts like us who read Usenet postings. Other posters
    used
    > the "Sharper Image" metaphor and that may be appropriate. While the
    machine
    > might not seem cost-effective to us, its uniqueness and the flashy electronics may appeal to
    > well-heeled buyers who like the high-tech image.
    >
    > BikeE lost the goodwill of the dealers so they're going to direct sales.
    Who
    > knows, it may work and the people who buy the machines may end up liking them.

    There is some sense in this approach. For years, I've wondered about the possibility of building
    slick, high-end bikes designed to appeal to the wealthy.

    There is a magical thing that happens when you create something visually appealing: People want it.
    They don't ask the price. They ask "when can you deliver one to me?" At some point, industrial
    design crosses over into the space occupied by art. Think Aeron chair. Think Spacelander fiberglass
    bikes. People respond very powerfully to beautiful design.

    For example: Personal computers are cheap - under $400 these days. Yet that doesn't stop Apple from
    selling truckloads of $2,000+ and even $3,000+ desktop computers. PC fans laugh at the slow CPU
    clock speeds on the Apple computers. Apple fans don't care; because CPU speed wasn't their primary
    reason for buying. They bought a Macintosh as a digital lifestyle appliance, visual centerpiece and
    fulfillment of a personal aesthetic. Commodity PC's simply cannot compete in that space.

    Can I just say it? Most US-built recumbents are ugly. Really ugly. European 'bents, on the other
    hand, are quite beautiful. Outside the US, where people actually ride bikes for transportation,
    there are numerous boutique mfr's of beautiful high-end bikes (DF and 'bent) aimed at the wealthier
    classes. It's not surprising that Americans might find this odd: Americans think that bikes are
    toys. They buy them at WalMart and Toys R Us. That needs to change, and Bigha is definitely aiming
    to change it. It's about time.

    Another way of looking at it is that bikes are cheap compared to cars. Even a $3,000 bike is dirt
    cheap compared to *any* new car. For people living in gated retirement communities in the sunbelt, a
    beautiful, comfortable, health-promoting, fun, unique Bigha recumbent makes sense. Hey, what else
    are you going to do with all that money? Buying cool toys is a pretty sure bet.

    There is definitely a market for Bigha. I agree about the name, though: It's just wrong, and so is
    the marketing message. I don't like the website, either (and I design websites for a living). They
    need to work on that. Flash can be pretty annoying; but that's not the problem in this case. I would
    have gone with something sleek and conservatively austere like the Mercedes Benz website, which is
    one of the best I've ever seen. www.mercedes.com

    I also think that having the fan club blog on the website is a bad idea, unless they plan to remove
    negative comments. That might tend to backfire. Better to stay perched upon the mountaintop and
    periodically sprinkle a few new products to the swooning fans the way that Steve Jobs does at Apple
    Computer. Mr. Jobs is all but inaccessible until MacWorld, and then he's there to work his marketing
    magic. Bigha probably knows all about the Apple phenomenon, and might even emulate it to some
    degree. They need a figurehead - a colorful spokesperson who can get a lot of press coverage, and
    create a mystique around this guy.

    We should wish Bigha the best of luck. They are elevating the standards for recumbent aesthetic in
    the US, and attempting to create an entirely new market. This is a very good thing

    -Barry
     
  20. Rob Kopp

    Rob Kopp Guest

    First of all...I've been reading this thread with some level of amusement this week. It is
    interesting that this bike has created such a stir. It really doesn't seem to have much to do with
    current recumbent owners. The only thing I can conclude is that the whole BikeE debacle left bitter
    feelings with many in the 'bent community. I wasn't around for all of thta, though I do remember
    seeing a few BikeEs on the road and thinking they were really homely.

    With regard to aesthetics... I'm sorry, the BigHa is a bike that only a mother could love the looks
    of. Appearances are obviously highly subjective, but I don't see the attraction. As much as I
    embracing switching to a recumbent for extended touring, it is not an aesthetic decision. I find
    both diamond and cantilever frames to be much more aesthetically pleasing than any recumbent.

    I also wonder if the Big HA release date is April 1. I can't believe that there will be much of a
    serious market for this bike at $3K. I'm just waiting for the "April Fools" moment. If it is an
    April Fools joke, it is a very elaborate one, and we have all been played the fool. If it is not,
    then the real Big Ha is the one the investors will experience.

    Rob "B. Sanders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > > I must say, I am extremely confused about this whole Bigha thing, from
    > the
    > > > name to everything else it really does seem like a big joke, only I
    > don't
    > > > get it.
    >
    > "jim h" replied:
    > > My take on it is that it's just what it appears to be. Some former BikeE people are behind it,
    > > they found there wasn't enough money in low-end recumbents, so this time they're going all the
    > > way to the other end of
    the
    > > spectrum. There may be a market there, but it probably doesn't include a
    > lot
    > > of current 'bent nuts like us who read Usenet postings. Other posters
    > used
    > > the "Sharper Image" metaphor and that may be appropriate. While the
    > machine
    > > might not seem cost-effective to us, its uniqueness and the flashy electronics may appeal to
    > > well-heeled buyers who like the high-tech
    image.
    > >
    > > BikeE lost the goodwill of the dealers so they're going to direct sales.
    > Who
    > > knows, it may work and the people who buy the machines may end up liking them.
    >
    > There is some sense in this approach. For years, I've wondered about the possibility of building
    > slick, high-end bikes designed to appeal to the wealthy.
    >
    > There is a magical thing that happens when you create something visually appealing: People want
    > it. They don't ask the price. They ask "when can you deliver one to me?" At some point, industrial
    > design crosses over
    into
    > the space occupied by art. Think Aeron chair. Think Spacelander
    fiberglass
    > bikes. People respond very powerfully to beautiful design.
    >
    > For example: Personal computers are cheap - under $400 these days. Yet
    that
    > doesn't stop Apple from selling truckloads of $2,000+ and even $3,000+ desktop computers. PC fans
    > laugh at the slow CPU clock speeds on the
    Apple
    > computers. Apple fans don't care; because CPU speed wasn't their primary reason for buying. They
    > bought a Macintosh as a digital lifestyle
    appliance,
    > visual centerpiece and fulfillment of a personal aesthetic. Commodity
    PC's
    > simply cannot compete in that space.
    >
    > Can I just say it? Most US-built recumbents are ugly. Really ugly. European 'bents, on the other
    > hand, are quite beautiful. Outside the US, where people actually ride bikes for transportation,
    > there are numerous boutique mfr's of beautiful high-end bikes (DF and 'bent) aimed at the
    > wealthier classes. It's not surprising that Americans might find this
    odd:
    > Americans think that bikes are toys. They buy them at WalMart and Toys R Us. That needs to change,
    > and Bigha is definitely aiming to change it.
    It's
    > about time.
    >
    > Another way of looking at it is that bikes are cheap compared to cars.
    Even
    > a $3,000 bike is dirt cheap compared to *any* new car. For people living
    in
    > gated retirement communities in the sunbelt, a beautiful, comfortable, health-promoting, fun,
    > unique Bigha recumbent makes sense. Hey, what else are you going to do with all that money? Buying
    > cool toys is a pretty sure bet.
    >
    > There is definitely a market for Bigha. I agree about the name, though: It's just wrong, and so is
    > the marketing message. I don't like the
    website,
    > either (and I design websites for a living). They need to work on that. Flash can be pretty
    > annoying; but that's not the problem in this case. I would have gone with something sleek and
    > conservatively austere like the Mercedes Benz website, which is one of the best I've ever seen.
    > www.mercedes.com
    >
    > I also think that having the fan club blog on the website is a bad idea, unless they plan to
    > remove negative comments. That might tend to
    backfire.
    > Better to stay perched upon the mountaintop and periodically sprinkle a
    few
    > new products to the swooning fans the way that Steve Jobs does at Apple Computer. Mr. Jobs is all
    > but inaccessible until MacWorld, and then he's there to work his marketing magic. Bigha probably
    > knows all about the
    Apple
    > phenomenon, and might even emulate it to some degree. They need a figurehead - a colorful
    > spokesperson who can get a lot of press coverage, and create a mystique around this guy.
    >
    > We should wish Bigha the best of luck. They are elevating the standards
    for
    > recumbent aesthetic in the US, and attempting to create an entirely new market. This is a very
    > good thing
    >
    > -Barry
     
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