bike abuse

oh my gawd! what a character this dude is!

 

Yep, a dude with a good point.

 

Kind of strange, but robotic welding machines don't actually have nationalities. Besides, when Chinese-made bikes managed to traverse the Ho Chi Minh Trail back in the 70's carrying 500lb payloads, a little curb shouldn't bother them too much.
Yes, you get what you pay for, which is why the majority of bike-buying people in your nation pay for and get bikes which are partially or wholly sourced from overseas. They prefer doing this to paying for more than what they get by trying to source locally. That's the design flaw of Free-Trade - it works both ways.

 

i forwarded his comment about "fat un-skilled retards" making $50.000 per year to some of my friends. they all want to meet him--in person, especially the friends who have relatives in the military putting their lives in danger while they help defend other stinkin, ungrateful countries who could care less about us. the military friends are partial to his mock "god bless america" comment too. dude, do yourself a favor, stay in brasil...

 

well lets just say i'm a do-it-yourself kind of guy. i fix my own car, bike, ect. i use sears craftsman (made in usa) tools. i also thought i (at one time) would save some money on imported chinese & taiwan made tools. the imported tools always strip & break, while the usa made tools rarely do, + their lifetime warranteed. there is a quality difference, so i say it again, you get what you pay for. i'm a proud american, & will go to the grave as one. i'll always buy american made products when possible over imported goods.

 

So (I do think this begs the question), why do it? Why defend Countries which are ungrateful (and, therefore, probably don't want to be defended) and, apparently, have an odour problem?

 

I may actually qualify for that job!

 

Why aren't bush's daughter's in iraq if it is such a swell idea You seem sold on it. I'll tell you why they are not there, it's because they are rich & moreover thier daddy knows that its a feckin mess over there that he's gotten us into How many times did you vote for our "dear leader" I suspect both times, if you are old enough. Also, are you insinuating that all servicemen believe in god I served, honorably I might add, & I don't believe in god.

 

That's fine, Saturn, and is the same attitude that many of us have with respect to the produce of our own Nations. Be careful, however, of generalisations when it comes to quality. Statistically there is a high probability that the computer monitor you are using comes from a Nation whose hand tools you would not use.
This same issue of quality used to be held against Japanese products, yet I would wager that there are a greater number of happy American cyclists riding around with Shimano componentry than there are riding around with full USA-made componentry.
Both China and Taiwan have made incredible leaps forward in the quality issues over the last few years. They are adapting very quickly to the demands of the World markets. Strength in the World market is achieved by maintaining a healthy ratio of exports to imports. It's an ongoing race and is very dynamic in its nature. It is good to support your Nation by buying locally-made, but your producers also need to compete on the international field. When AMF fought so hard to raise and maintain tariffs against imported motorcycles, they made other motorcycles significantly more expensive, but people still bought them because the AMF HD's were extaordinarily lacking in quality. Most people still bought imported bikes, they just paid a lot more for them. It was only when HD had to drop that policy and increase its quality that it regained its domestic market, and then went on to do very well in the export market as well.
The recent successive Governments of the USA have been the main protaginist at getting other Nations to drop their tariff and subsidy schemes. That is fine, just don't complain when you start seeing a lot of imports coming in because other Nations have managed to produce what your domestic market requires.
I think you may find, in the years to come, that the general public's patriotism in buying Made-in-the-USA starts to carry a fine-print disclaimer of "subject to availability of finance".

 

First off, I am an American too. I am an engineer working in the auto industry and am expatriated in Brasil. My comment about fat unskilled retards was a little inflammatory (but based on many years experience in the US being frustrated by the EXTREMLEY poor quality of the workforce, while having the complete opposite experience in several other countries) but was not directed solely at americans and I have no idea why you think it has anything to do with the military. It is applicable to people in general as all countries have this segment of population. I was not mocking the US with my god bless america comment, rather your insular view with respect to economics on a macro and micro level. I am not going to change your views (and couldn't if I tried) as you are clearly very well informed already.

Sorry you were offended, we just disagree in that I think people should succeed on the basis of their intrinsic skills, abilities, and efforts, and you think they should succeed based on where they were born.

Either way don't kid yourself into thinking jobs leave the US for cheaper wages, the only case in which this is true is where labor is a significant % of the product cost (like making socks, and you really want to keep jobs in the US like making socks )... there are a myriad of other factors that go into the decision and usually wages isn't even in the top ten reasons.

That said enjoy polishing your Made in the USA bike and sleep well at night know that I beat up on Brasilians on my filthy Made in the USA Cannondale which I bought not because it was made in the US (right next to where I grew up in fact), but because it was an awesomely stiff and well made frameset that cost a paltry $400.

US industry can compete with anyone in the world, but ironically our competitiveness is undermined by those that share your viewpoint with an insular and uninformed US comes first attitude.

 

Nothing wrong with being proud of your country, just don't use it as an exuse to close your eyes to reality and embarass the rest of us. That kind of nationalistic BS is what is used to defend wars and persecute those that have contrarian views (like your insinuation I am unpatriotic).

I won't bother to go into why not buying some imported goods is bad for your own economy. But imagine a world in which you only bartered with your neighbor...naw expand it to your town. You can't buy or do anything that wasn't totally created in your town. Great standard of living huh? Maybe you want to live dirt poor like that (imagine a agrarian lifestyle of 1500 years ago)? Not me though.

 

I'm not sure it is even possible to ride USA made componentry except for some very expensive boutique type stuff that will be inferior in every way expect for uniqueness. FWIW I will never ride horrible Japanese crap, only Italian

Very true, seems to be a very simple concept, yet many can't or don't want to see it.

 

The concept is simple but it gets a bit more complicated in practice. For example, Chinese goods have an artificial price advantage of perhaps 30% due to their artificially deflated currency. Also a lot of Chinese cities are environmental sacrifice zones. We in the US are paying a price for a (relatively) clean environment. That price in China is MUCH less.

Basically, there's lot more at play than just individual effort and ability of a country's workers. That said, there is a bit of a fat-and-happy attitude here in the US, plus a dismaying unwillingness to invest in education, or invest in anything, really, other that bubble-speculation. Well, we have plenty of money to "invest" in Iraq, money we're borrowing from China, Ironically.

 

This will put a tear in your eye. A friend of mine has an early 1980s genuine English made Raleigh road bike which has been sitting out in the elements in his back yard for years. I told him over a year ago that if he didn't do something I was going to take the chain off and flog him with it! It's still there.

 

That isn't made in 'merica! Who cares about that forin crap

 

Touchè. There are always two sides to a story and the truth is always somewhere in the middle of the extremes. Where that point is lies the complication.

 

o.k. guys, it's all good, no hard feelings. i came here tonight expecting to get slammed, insulted, ect. i'm actully surprised to see everybody pretty much mellowed out. the made in the u.s.a. thing is a sensitive issue for me though. my father used to work for murray ohio where they made murray bikes right here in cleveland, ohio. now the building is just a vacated, empty old rat infested building with broken windows because like so many others, they sold out to china. i can see how sad he gets when we ride by that old building. now china has their tooling & makes the bikes with their name. the same goes for huffy, they used to be in dayton ohio, that's where my huffy was made & now china has all their tooling & uses their name. what's wrong with this picture? it's really sad to see that happen. so many empty factories that used to be here & now their all a memory. i'm involved in the manufacturing business & that's a scary place to be these days. oh well, what's the use in ranting. there's nothing i can do about it myself. their ain't much more i can say here that i didn't say already so i'm pretty much done with this thread. anyway guess what? i bought chinese today! food that is! egg rolls, pepper steak, fried rice, sweet & sour chicken, ect. if the chinese do something right, it's cook! the best thing of it all, the chinese food is made in the u.s.a.! lol!

 

their daddy, and their daddy's daddy for that matter. remember gh bush had the kinder gentler vision thing and bailed for reasons publicly stated such as long term difficulties the likes of which are being experienced now in real time.

be careful, do not trust in the revisionist historians we have been duly warned of on tv, lest ye doubt the republic and lose faith, ending up adrift without two party guidance.

back to bush wars 1 though,

sh was still kinda perturbed at this juncture, so he did the logical thing,
had gh bush's face in mosaic adorning the floor of the state building lobby.
a gesture of respect i am sure. to think, all those feet offering symbolic salute of a podiatry kind, day in, day out. heart and sole one may say.

gh went on to do the covert thingy elswhere (how '80s is THAT?), as the family biz is truly us taxpayer funded "intelligence", if you get my drift.

waittaminute, i thought we were talking 'bout cleanin' drivetrains here?

 

I have to admit, this makes me squirm too - I bought a trek for $10 at a garage sale and couldn't beleve someone had let get so far gone - even my beater stays indoors . I had to wait a year to buy even an "entry level" road bike, and I'm a fanatic about taking care of it, because i never want to go back to riding walmart waste again !

about all the bikes made in china, etc - here's some suggestions:
Breezers and Electras are Made in California, and Burleys (my next bike )are made in Eugene, Oregon.

 

My bike was assembled in my bedroom. The wheels and frame are hand built in Derby (UK). The groupset comes from Italy though, it would be nice if there was a wider choice than Campag and Shimano for road bikes... Not wishing to put down Shimano and Campag, but groupsets are not rocket science from an engineering standpoint.