Bike Dealer mag cover bent market health?



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Jeff Potter

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OK, I gather that not many here are into analyzing or reporting (here) on the why's of things like
BikeE's bankruptcy.

But I'm guessing that the bicycle trade magazine had some indepth reports on the calamity, right?

Anyone here read em?

What about trade mag reports on the health of the bent market in general?

What's their take on bents anyway? I'd think it might sometimes be a strong growth sector, even if
it's small in absolute terms.

I'd think they'd be studying it in comparison to things like tandems, folders and citybikes or
hybrids. Do they analyze this kind of thing?

Should I be asking r.b.m. instead? --Might be some shop owners there who subscribe to these things.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself
culture... ...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies... ...rare books on ski,
bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels
coming up! ...original downloadable music ... and articles galore! plus national "Off the Beaten
Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!
 
The bikeE thing was discussed A LOT at the time. There was an article in BRAIN. There was a bit of private discussion at Interbike as well.

Seems like old news now with all the new Sun bikes. Sun/J&B seems like they are in a better position to serve the low and medium part of the recumbent market. For them, recumbents are a line extension, not a seperate business that has to be entirely self-supporting. The also have a built in dealer network, so they don't have to spend a lot of time and money trying to find dealers.

In the absence of a trade association, numbers are always vague. Care to try to convince recumbent makers that you want to be a recumbent market analyst? - i.e. get them to send you numbers that you would only release in summary.

johnriley 1 at rogers dot com

Originally posted by Jeff Potter
OK, I gather that not many here are into analyzing or reporting (here) on the why's of things like
BikeE's bankruptcy.

But I'm guessing that the bicycle trade magazine had some indepth reports on the calamity, right?

Anyone here read em?

What about trade mag reports on the health of the bent market in general?

What's their take on bents anyway? I'd think it might sometimes be a strong growth sector, even if
it's small in absolute terms.

I'd think they'd be studying it in comparison to things like tandems, folders and citybikes or
hybrids. Do they analyze this kind of thing?

Should I be asking r.b.m. instead? --Might be some shop owners there who subscribe to these things.

--

Jeff Potter
****
*Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself
culture... ...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies... ...rare books on ski,
bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels
coming up! ...original downloadable music ... and articles galore! plus national "Off the Beaten
Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!
Click to expand...
 
It's pretty simple, recumbents are a fringe market. They've been around for over a hundred years and
they just aren't suitable for most riders. Those that they are suitable for love them, but there are
too few to make for a large market, so, only the few will make and maintain a profit.a

Gene

"Jeff Potter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, I gather that not many here are into analyzing or reporting (here) on the why's of things like
> BikeE's bankruptcy.
>
> But I'm guessing that the bicycle trade magazine had some indepth reports on the calamity, right?
>
> Anyone here read em?
>
> What about trade mag reports on the health of the bent market in general?
>
> What's their take on bents anyway? I'd think it might sometimes be a strong growth sector, even if
> it's small in absolute terms.
>
> I'd think they'd be studying it in comparison to things like tandems, folders and citybikes or
> hybrids. Do they analyze this kind of thing?
>
> Should I be asking r.b.m. instead? --Might be some shop owners there who subscribe to
> these things.
>
> --
>
> Jeff Potter
> ****
> *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself
> culture... ...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies... ...rare books on ski,
> bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels
> coming up! ...original downloadable music ... and articles galore! plus national "Off the Beaten
> Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!
 
"Gene Cottrell" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> It's pretty simple, recumbents are a fringe market. They've been around for over a hundred years
> and they just aren't suitable for most riders. Those that they are suitable for love them, but
> there are too few to make for a large market, so, only the few will make and maintain a profit.a
>
> Gene
>
>
> "Jeff Potter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> OK, I gather that not many here are into analyzing or reporting (here) on the why's of things
>> like BikeE's bankruptcy.
>>
>> But I'm guessing that the bicycle trade magazine had some indepth reports on the calamity, right?
>>
>> Anyone here read em?
>>
>> What about trade mag reports on the health of the bent market in general?
>>
>> What's their take on bents anyway? I'd think it might sometimes be a strong growth sector, even
>> if it's small in absolute terms.
>>
>> I'd think they'd be studying it in comparison to things like tandems, folders and citybikes or
>> hybrids. Do they analyze this kind of thing?
>>
>> Should I be asking r.b.m. instead? --Might be some shop owners there who subscribe to these
>> things.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jeff Potter
>> ****
>> *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com publisher of outdoor/indoor do-it-yourself
>> culture... ...offering "small world" views on bikes, bows, books, movies... ...rare books on ski,
>> bike, boat culture, plus a Gulf Coast thriller about smalltown smuggling ... more radical novels
>> coming up! ...original downloadable music ... and articles galore! plus national "Off the Beaten
>> Path" travel forums! HOLY SMOKES!
>>
>>
>
>
>

Aren't suitable for most riders? How so? I would attribute the fringe status mostly to lack of
exposure for the general public, followed by the high price. I think your idea will be disproved by
the new Sun line the next couple of years.
 

Aren't suitable for most riders? How so? I would attribute the fringe status mostly to lack of
exposure for the general public, followed by the high price. I think your idea will be disproved by
the new Sun line the next couple of years. [/B]
Click to expand...


I wouldn't say, "unsuitable"; I would say that they don't meet a compelling need (emotional or otherwise) for very many people. Seems to be a niche product, and I don't think that is about price.

For a given level of quality, a lower price is better than a higher one, but even at current recumbent prices, WAY more people could EASILY afford recumbents than actually purchase them. That tells me that lower prices aren't going to hugely increase the market.

I think Sun will do ok and will increase the market some, but I think as a percentage of the total adult bike market, the numbers will remain small.

johnriley1 at rogers dot com
 
MLB wrote:

> I think your idea will be disproved by the new Sun line the next couple of years.

New Sun line? Is that the Cycle Genius one or a different one? I am trying to keep my eyes on the
low-end bents these days and am chasing one that I thought I had seen by can't find any more.

--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. -
Mother Teresa
 
"MLB" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> Aren't suitable for most riders? How so?

They don't climb well, they're not comfortable for most people (recumbent butt, numb feet, etc),
they are not nearly as stable in turns, slow response (not nimble like a DF), not very compatable
riding in groups with DFs and on and on and on.

> I would attribute the fringe status mostly to lack of exposure for the general public, followed by
> the high price.

They're less expensive than a good DF. I paid twice the price of my Strada for my Colnago and most
of the people I ride with have bikes in the $2500 - $3000 range and I belong to a club with over 600
members. Certainly price in a small factor in the decision of people to buy or not buy a recumbent.

> I think your idea will be disproved by the new Sun line the next couple of years.

We'll see, history is not in it's favor.

Gene
 
Gene Cottrell wrote:
>
> "MLB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > Aren't suitable for most riders? How so?
>
> They don't climb well, they're not comfortable for most people (recumbent butt, numb feet, etc),
> they are not nearly as stable in turns, slow response (not nimble like a DF), not very compatable
> riding in groups with DFs and on and on and on.

That is what I hate about my Sunset; its unwillingness to change direction with control inputs and
the discomfort of riding it. I also agree completely with everything Edward Dolan has ever posted to
this newsgroup. < end sarcasm >

Upright bikes are not comfortable for most people - take someone who has not ridden in some time
and have them try to ride a long distance on an upright road bike. Unlike the types of discomfort
that may be encountered on a recumbent, the types of pain caused by supporting ones weight on three
small areas can not be relieved in just a few minutes off the bike but may last for as long as
several days.

Tom Sherman - Near the confluence of the Mississippi and Rock Rivers RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket,
Earth Cycles Sunset and Dragonflyer
 
"Melinda Meahan skrev...

> New Sun line? Is that the Cycle Genius one or a different one? I am trying to keep my eyes on the
> low-end bents these days and am chasing one that I thought I had seen by can't find any more.

Its the ones Easy Racers sells IMHO. The new trikes and bikes also mentioned in Zach Kaplan/BROL's
coverage of interbike. http://www.bentrideronline.com/Interbike2003.htm http://www.easyracers.com/

Any characteristics on the one you can't find anymore?

Mikael
 
"Gene Cottrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "MLB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > Aren't suitable for most riders? How so?
>
> .... they're not comfortable for most people (recumbent butt, numb feet, etc), ....

Those issues are at the ends of the design spectrum; seat back to upright = sore rear, BB too hight
= numb toes. There is quite a bit of ground in the middle where neither is an issue.

I would say, comfort is one of the big things recumbents have going for them. The question is, how
many people who can't come to terms with a regular bike still feel such a need to ride that they
would seek out a recumbent? I figure most of them would just take up another activity.

john riley
 
"Gene Cottrell" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "MLB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>> Aren't suitable for most riders? How so?
>
> They don't climb well, they're not comfortable for most people (recumbent butt, numb feet, etc),
> they are not nearly as stable in turns, slow response (not nimble like a DF),

Heh,heh. Troll.
 
"Gene Cottrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "MLB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > Aren't suitable for most riders? How so?
>
> They don't climb well, they're not comfortable for most people (recumbent butt, numb feet, etc),
> they are not nearly as stable in turns, slow response (not nimble like a DF), not very compatable
> riding in groups with DFs and on
>
Some* are* lousy on hills. And as one who hates low gears and going at a snails pace, many people
give up there (not me). But; stick a motor to use only on hills or acceleration; you have DFers
beat. If hills are such a big deal for me, I ride my motorized TerraTrike.

BUT: for a quick slalom; I grab my Speed. Catrike is only one good handler, but it easily
outmanuevers most. Mine would throw me out before rolling over.
>
> We'll see, history is not in it's favor.

If people continue with high center of gravity and topheavy styles (not to mention heavy) as they
have for years, I tend to doubt much, if any, progress. I am so glad a few people don't have their
head stuck in the mud. Bike dealers are trying to cover all markets (not hard enough- here in SC)
but wars, fires, economy, and so on make this recumbent market remain in neutral!

Chris Jordan Santa Cruz (the fire-free zone), CA.

> Gene
 
Mikael Seierup wrote:
> "Melinda Meahan skrev...
>
>>New Sun line? Is that the Cycle Genius one or a different one? I am trying to keep my eyes on the
>>low-end bents these days and am chasing one that I thought I had seen by can't find any more.
>
> Its the ones Easy Racers sells IMHO. The new trikes and bikes also mentioned in Zach
> Kaplan/BROL's coverage of interbike. http://www.bentrideronline.com/Interbike2003.htm
> http://www.easyracers.com/
>
> Any characteristics on the one you can't find anymore?

No; it's not the EasyRacers one -- we have two of them here. I am not sure if it's the Cycle Genius
one -- if that is an inexpensive one -- or another one that I just read about in the past month that
was being put out by the same factory that makes the EZ-1's.

--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. -
Mother Teresa
 
"Melinda Meahan skrev ...
> No; it's not the EasyRacers one -- we have two of them here. I am not sure if it's the Cycle
> Genius one -- if that is an inexpensive one -- or another one that I just read about in the past
> month that was being put out by the same factory that makes the EZ-1's.

The Sun line of recumbents is designed by Gardner Martin et. al. and built in Taiwan. Might not be
the one you are looking for.

Was it an SWB? Over-/understeering? Wheelsize?

Mikael
 
Mikael Seierup wrote:
>
> The Sun line of recumbents is designed by Gardner Martin et. al. and built in Taiwan. Might not be
> the one you are looking for.
>
> Was it an SWB? Over-/understeering? Wheelsize?

I am pretty sure it was LWB or CLWB and over-steering, because I wouldn't have been interested in it
if it wasn't. Seems to me it might have had a 26-inch back wheel, but I am not sure.

--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. -
Mother Teresa
 
Mikael Seierup wrote:
> http://www.cyclegenius.com/models04.htm
>
> This one?

AHHH!!!! ((((((smoochie smoochie smoochie))))))

It was a different Cycle Genius model than the one that I had already seen. The one I like the color
of is at the bottom -- that teal blue one, and it doesn't have a 20-inch wheel, but I was *sure* I
had seen a 26-incher.

Thanks BUNCHES!!!!

--
I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much. -
Mother Teresa
 
I am one who rode a DF for years and due to medical reasons, decided to ride a recumbent rather than
not ride at all. I purchased a Strada and for all my riding and trying, I couldn't come to terms
with it. In 2500 miles over a three month period I never got one mile of enjoyment out of it. It was
terribly slow in the hilly terrain I ride in and I could no longer keep up with my riding friends
regardless of how hard I tried. I have now relegated myself to riding my upright once a week for a
short 30-35 mile ride with the slow group of my club. At least I can enjoy getting out for a ride. I
know there are those few who enjoy a recumbent and I'm glad for them, but I am one of the majority
who can't enjoy a bent.

Gene

"john riley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... Snip
> I would say, comfort is one of the big things recumbents have going for them. The question is, how
> many people who can't come to terms with a regular bike still feel such a need to ride that they
> would seek out a recumbent? I figure most of them would just take up another activity.
>
> john riley
 
Gene Cottrell wrote:
> ... At least I can enjoy getting out for a ride. I know there are those few who enjoy a recumbent
> and I'm glad for them, but I am one of the majority who can't enjoy a bent.

Maybe you are one of the majority who draw conclusions on insufficient evidence. The majority of
cyclists (to say nothing of the majority of the entire population) have not ridden a recumbent
bicycle enough to determine whether or not they could enjoy it. Therefore making the statement "but
I am one of the majority who can't enjoy a bent" is just ridiculous.

Tom Sherman - Recumbent Curmudgeon
 
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