Bike deaths in FL ...



R

Robert Siegel

Guest
FYI
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Article published Feb 8, 2004 RETIRED UF PROFESSOR, STEPSON 2 area cyclists killed near High Springs
The driver was arrested and charged with leaving the scene of the accident.

A retired University of Florida professor and his stepson, who had just left Gainesville for a round-
trip bike ride to Georgia, were killed Saturday morning when their bicycles were hit by a vehicle
whose driver appeared impaired, state police said.

Gainesville resident Gustavo A. Antonini, 66, and Jupiter resident William
W. Cupples, 42, were pronounced dead at the scene.

They had been riding north in the bike lane on State Road 45, just north of NW 46th Avenue near High
Springs, when a 1979 Chevy pickup traveling in the same direction drifted to the right and struck
them at 8:55 a.m., according to the Florida Highway Patrol.

At the scene of the accident, two gray bicycle helmets rested side by side several feet from a
mangled mess of tires and metal.

It was Antonini's birthday on Saturday. Charles Ray Porter, 46, of Alachua, was arrested and charged
shortly after he fled the accident and lost control of his vehicle when he struck a neighborhood
crime watch sign, FHP Lt. Mike Burroughs said. His pickup had flipped about 3.5 miles north of the
accident scene along SR 45.

After complaining of an injury, Porter was taken to the North Florida Regional Medical Center where
he was waiting to be evaluated Saturday evening. He was later booked into the Alachua County jail
on two counts of leaving the scene of a traffic crash involving death, according to Sheriff's
Office records.

Burroughs said investigators are looking into whether drugs or alcohol played a part in the crash.

"There is a suspicion of impairment," the lieutenant said. "Where that impairment was derived from
we're not totally sure as of yet. We feel that it is a controlled substance other than alcohol."

A blood alcohol specimen was taken and sent to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement for
analysis, Burroughs said. Results are expected within 10 to 14 days.

If test results show Porter was impaired or under a controlled substance, "it is highly likely that
we will review upgrading his charges to DUI manslaughter," Burroughs said.

According to court records, Porter has been arrested on more than a dozen charges since 1980,
including worthless checks, possession of marijuana, grand theft, dumping industrial substance
and battery.

He has been found guilty of writing a worthless check in 2001, use or possession of drug
paraphernalia in 1995 and theft in 1995, according to records.

"We're fortunate to have caught him this quickly," said FHP Sgt. David Roberts.

For friends and family members of both men, however, the arrest provided little consolation. But at
least they died doing what they loved, some said.

"We like to think it was a fast death," said Deborah Cupples, Gustavo's stepdaughter and William's
sister. "They were doing what they liked, and they liked being together doing it."

Deborah Cupples, 38, said the men had been on the road early Saturday morning for a 190-mile ride
organized by the Gainesville Cycling Club. They were part of a group of 30 or more riders headed for
the Georgia border, with a lunch stop planned at Lake City Community College.

"My mother was going to bring them soup and bread," she said, "but they never called."

Instead, Cupples said, state troopers came to her mother's house in northeast Gainesville and
reported that the two had been hit and killed.

Antonini, who retired from UF in 2000 after 30 years with the university, was a Florida Sea Grant
professor emeritus and expert in water management, according to a UF colleague, Bob Swett. In
2000, he was presented with a leadership award by the governor's Council for Sustainable Florida,
Swett said.

His stepson worked for Florida Power and Light.

For years, Antonini and William Cupples had turned their enjoyment of cycling into a full-
blown passion. In retirement, Antonini had even begun putting as many as 200 miles per week
into the pedals.

"When we went to Atlanta over Christmas he took his bike with him," his stepdaughter said. "This was
a real serious part of him."

Jim Wilson, who had organized the cycling club's ride, said the accident was further proof that
biking can be a dangerous sport.

"You certainly have that sort of view when something like this happens."

In 2001, the latest year for which statistics have been compiled, Alachua County had four bike
fatalities. It was surpassed only by counties with much larger populations - Palm Beach with 11, Miami-
Dade with 10 and Hillsborough with nine. Leon County, which is similar in size and demographics to
Alachua, had no fatalities.

Statistics show that Alachua County also has a high per-capita rate of bike accidents with 102 in
2001, the lowest number in several years. But Leon County had only 41 in 2001 and has consistently
fewer than Alachua County.

Greg Bruno can be reached at (352) 374-5026 or [email protected] gvillesun.com.
 
P

Peter

Guest
In article <[email protected]>,
"Robert Siegel" <[email protected]> wrote:

> He was later booked into the Alachua County jail on two counts of leaving the scene of a traffic
> crash involving death

That's all?!?!?

I hope there are more charges in the offing!
 
D

Dave Jones

Guest
Robert Siegel told us about...
> Article published Feb 8, 2004 RETIRED UF PROFESSOR, STEPSON 2 area cyclists killed near High
> Springs The driver was arrested and charged with leaving the scene of the accident...

Words fail me...so sad that someone who is doing something that they love and have taken so
completely to their heart after giving a lifetime of service can be ripped from life like this...so
sad that a person in their prime can so quickly be taken. My thoughts are with their families,
wishing them comfort and justice...so sad. dj
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
"Robert Siegel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> FYI

[...]

Robert, about the bike deaths in Florida, thanks for keeping us abreast of the cycling situation
in Florida.

I believe Florida has one of the highest cyclist accident death rates due to motorists hitting you
of anywhere in the country.

I once did the Bike Florida ride and the main downside to that ride is the very heavy traffic on
those rather narrow roads without shoulders that exist everywhere in the state. And then there are
those here who do not think bike trails are a good idea. The simple fact is that every time you take
your bike out on the open road you are subjecting yourself to death and injury. That is why I am
100% in favor of bike trails everywhere in this country. I believe the Bike Florida every year tries
to promotes the "Share the Road" philosophy, but the fact is that motorists do not want to share the
road. Far from it. They want you as far off the road as it is possible to get. Those club cyclists
who do not like trails are an abomination to the rest of us. Any sane and sensible cyclist will
always prefer trails to roads.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 

Dan Burkhart

New Member
Nov 27, 2003
333
0
0
68
Those club cyclists
who do not like trails are an abomination to the rest of us. Any sane and sensible cyclist will
always prefer trails to roads.

I am with you there Ed. I once heard a so called cycling advocate on the radio declaring that off road trails were a bad idea, and that cyclists must concentrate their efforts on pressing their rights as legitimate road users.
Good thing no one was near by to hear me screaming at the radio.
I believe off road trails should be built and expanded where ever practicable, and I would even willingly pay license and user fees to see it happen.(After all, I do believe in a user pay system)
Dan Burkhart
Oakville Ont
 
R

Robert Haston

Guest
You should read John Forester's Effective Cycling. Bike paths are no panacea for lots of
reasons. Getting killed where your "safe" bike path intersects the road is very common. Two of
the recent half-dozen or so deaths in my area over the last decade were on bike paths. Most of
the run down like road kill mishaps were resultant from narrow shoulders or unlit cyclists. This
brings up the impossibility of attempting to overlay a bike path network everywhere roads go -
regardless of the cost.

If you want to fight the problem, attack the roots, not the leaves. In Europe, cyclists are treated
with respect because lots of people cycle there. Lots of people cycle there because they don't
subsidize driving like we do - around a half-trillion a year. Gas in Europe is three times what it
is here not because they punish drivers, but because we reward them. While they are RAISING their
tolls and fees, making car-free city centers, etc., we are jacking up the subsidies, diverting more
and more property, sales, and income taxes towards supporting drivers.

Aside from the fact that this punishes the third of our society too young, old, handicapped or poor
to drive, it makes driving WORSE, as the streets become clogged with those that otherwise wouldn't
be driving. And then the oil runs out - brilliant.

"Dan Burkhart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Those club cyclists who do not like trails are an abomination to the rest of us. Any sane and
> sensible cyclist will always prefer trails to roads.
 
J

Jay

Guest
>Dan Burkhart at [email protected] wrote: Those club cyclists who do not like trails
>are an abomination to
the rest of
> us. Any sane and sensible cyclist will always prefer
trails to roads.

I am
> with you there Ed. I once heard a so called cycling advocate on
the radio
> declaring that off road trails were a bad idea, and that
cyclists must
> concentrate their efforts on pressing their rights as
legitimate road users.
> Good thing no one was near by to hear me
screaming at the radio. I believe
> off road trails should be built and
expanded where ever practicable, and I
> would even willingly pay license
and user fees to see it happen.(After all, I
> do believe in a user pay
system) Dan Burkhart Oakville Ont

Your statements conflict with that of most experienced cyclists. Could you clarify your cycling
expertise, please?
 
M

Mark Leuck

Guest
"Robert Haston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You should read John Forester's Effective Cycling. Bike paths are no panacea for lots of reasons.
> Getting killed where your "safe" bike path intersects the road is very common. Two of the recent
> half-dozen or so deaths in my area over the last decade were on bike paths. Most of the
run
> down like road kill mishaps were resultant from narrow shoulders or unlit cyclists. This brings up
> the impossibility of attempting to overlay a bike path network everywhere roads go - regardless of
> the cost.
>
> If you want to fight the problem, attack the roots, not the leaves. In Europe, cyclists are
> treated with respect because lots of people cycle there. Lots of people cycle there because they
> don't subsidize driving
like
> we do - around a half-trillion a year. Gas in Europe is three times what
it
> is here not because they punish drivers, but because we reward them.

No gas is three times higher over there because of taxes to pay for bloated socialistic programs, If
that isn't that considered punishing drivers I don't know what is. Also the infrastructure of Europe
being a much older society is designed less for the automobile than it is for walking or bicycles,
had the US done that from the beginning it would be far different although we didn't have to due to
the much more massive land mass which is why it is what it is today. BTW: I don't care for
government subsidizing either

Attacking the root today would mean trillions in infrastructure changes and in the end most of
people in the US still live too far from work to consider biking and most areas still do not have
public transportation close by.

> While they are RAISING their tolls and fees, making car-free city centers, etc., we are jacking up
> the subsidies, diverting more and more property, sales, and income taxes towards supporting
> drivers.

No we (the US) are getting jacked up state and local taxes because of bloated state and local
spending on things other than transportation, and the reason they (Europe) is raising tolls and fees
is due to previously mentioned bloated socialistic programs.

> Aside from the fact that this punishes the third of our society too young, old, handicapped or
> poor to drive, it makes driving WORSE, as the streets become clogged with those that otherwise
> wouldn't be driving. And then
the
> oil runs out - brilliant.

They've been saying the oil will run out soon for decades now, I recall in the early 70's we had
only 10-15 more years of oil left...I'm still waiting and I seriously doubt I or my children will
ever see it happen
 
J

John Riley

Guest
Jay <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BC4C833E.2DBB0%[email protected]>...

> Your statements conflict with that of most experienced cyclists. Could you clarify your cycling
> expertise, please?

I often ride and enjoy trails, but I don't think cyclists should be banned from the road.

But as far as expertise goes, Florida seems to have gone off the map. I have doubts about the
application of Forester's "Effective Cycling" principles in that enviroment. For example, he
minimizes overtaking accidents. But if you removed kids, drunks, wrong way riders, and flagrant
traffic law violaters from the statistics, since I am none of those, I think the overtaking
accidents would start to become significant in the Florida environment.

John Riley 1 at rogers dot com
 
J

Jon Meinecke

Guest
"Robert Siegel" <[email protected]> quoted a news report:
>
> Article published Feb 8, 2004 RETIRED UF PROFESSOR, STEPSON 2 area cyclists killed near High
> Springs [...] Jim Wilson, who had organized the cycling club's ride, said the accident
was
> further proof that biking can be a dangerous sport.
>
> "You certainly have that sort of view when something like this happens."

...makes me view certainly that impaired drivers are dangerous!

> In 2001, [...] Alachua County had four bike fatalities. [...] Palm Beach with 11, Miami-Dade with
> 10 and Hillsborough with nine.

I wonder what the non-bicycle traffic fatalities were in these counties...

Jon Meinecke
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
"Robert Haston" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> You should read John Forester's Effective Cycling. Bike paths are no panacea for lots of reasons.
> Getting killed where your "safe" bike path intersects the road is very common. Two of the recent
> half-dozen or so deaths in my area over the last decade were on bike paths.

A cyclist has to use the common sense he was born with no matter if he is riding the roads or riding
the trails. To get yourself killed where the trail crosses the road means that you didn't slow down
and/or stop before crossing the road. A total no brainer!

> Most of the run down like road kill mishaps were resultant from narrow shoulders or unlit
> cyclists. This brings up the impossibility of attempting to overlay a bike path network
> everywhere roads go - regardless of the cost.

Trails are always to be preferred over roads, regardless of the conditions of the roads or the
conditions of the trails.

> If you want to fight the problem, attack the roots, not the leaves. In Europe, cyclists are
> treated with respect because lots of people cycle there. Lots of people cycle there because they
> don't subsidize driving like we do - around a half-trillion a year. Gas in Europe is three times
> what it is here not because they punish drivers, but because we reward them. While they are
> RAISING their tolls and fees, making car-free city centers, etc., we are jacking up the subsidies,
> diverting more and more property, sales, and income taxes towards supporting drivers.

Doe not Europe also have a great number of cyclist deaths resulting from motorists hitting them
on the road?

> Aside from the fact that this punishes the third of our society too young, old, handicapped or
> poor to drive, it makes driving WORSE, as the streets become clogged with those that otherwise
> wouldn't be driving. And then the oil runs out - brilliant.

This subject thread is not about cars vs bikes. It is about how to avoid getting killed on the road
by motorists, drunken or otherwise. I say trails are the answer. At least on a trail, if the cyclist
gets himself killed it will have been his own fault.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
Jay <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BC4C833E.2DBB0%[email protected]>...

> >Dan Burkhart at [email protected] wrote: Those club cyclists who do not like trails
> >are an abomination to
> the rest of
> > us. Any sane and sensible cyclist will always prefer
> trails to roads.
>
> I am
> > with you there Ed. I once heard a so called cycling advocate on
> the radio
> > declaring that off road trails were a bad idea, and that
> cyclists must
> > concentrate their efforts on pressing their rights as
> legitimate road users.
> > Good thing no one was near by to hear me
> screaming at the radio. I believe
> > off road trails should be built and
> expanded where ever practicable, and I
> > would even willingly pay license
> and user fees to see it happen.(After all, I
> > do believe in a user pay
> system) Dan Burkhart Oakville Ont
>
>
> Your statements conflict with that of most experienced cyclists. Could you clarify your cycling
> expertise, please?

Those two cyclists that were out riding on the road in Florida were presumably experts at what they
were doing, but that did not prevent a drunken motorist from running them down and killing them. It
they had been riding their bikes on a bike trail instead, they would be alive today to discuss the
finer points of "expertness" with you.

My advice to you is to try to learn something from each and every cyclist death on the road instead
of blathering about being experienced and an expert. Experts are killed every day all the time for
one reason or another regardless of their expertise. If you don't believe this, take up the hobby of
reading books about mountain climbers and you will see what I mean.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
F

Freewheeling

Guest
Mark:

Actually the reason for most tolls and fees on highways in the US is to control congestion. This was
one of my research fields a few years ago, so I know. In fact, there have been proposals to
privatize some roads so the fees would go to a for-profit company and wouldn't be collected by the
state at all. There are a few "demonstration projects" for privately owned and maintained toll
roads, but they're rare now.

Also, regarding bike paths, if they aren't designed with cutouts, bridges, overpasses, and other
means for coping with intersections the odds are that they'll increase the likelihood of accidents
rather than diminish them. And cutouts, etc. are expensive.

Although I think bike trails are important for traversing relatively long distances (inter-city,
etc.), and the DC-VA-MD system is about the most extensive in the country, the way to reduce
accidents in to increase the number of cyclists so that motorists are used to seeing them, and to
aggressively prosecute motorists who are at fault in an accident (which includes passing appropriate
legislation). And the latter really requires an organization willing to take up and champion those
cases. LAB refuses to do that, or at least they used to. I haven't paid attention over the last year
as to whether a new LAB leadership may have changed the priorities.

One of the reasons you don't hear much about automobile accidents involving motorcycles is that the
motorcycle advocacy organizations aggressively press for prosecutions.

--
--Scott
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s54...
>
> "Robert Haston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > You should read John Forester's Effective Cycling. Bike paths are no
> > panacea for lots of reasons. Getting killed where your "safe" bike path
> > intersects the road is very common. Two of the recent half-dozen or so
> > deaths in my area over the last decade were on bike paths. Most of the
> run
> > down like road kill mishaps were resultant from narrow shoulders or
unlit
> > cyclists. This brings up the impossibility of attempting to overlay a
bike
> > path network everywhere roads go - regardless of the cost.
> >
> > If you want to fight the problem, attack the roots, not the leaves. In
> > Europe, cyclists are treated with respect because lots of people cycle
> > there. Lots of people cycle there because they don't subsidize driving
> like
> > we do - around a half-trillion a year. Gas in Europe is three times
what
> it
> > is here not because they punish drivers, but because we reward them.
>
> No gas is three times higher over there because of taxes to pay for
bloated
> socialistic programs, If that isn't that considered punishing drivers I
> don't know what is. Also the infrastructure of Europe being a much older
> society is designed less for the automobile than it is for walking or
> bicycles, had the US done that from the beginning it would be far
different
> although we didn't have to due to the much more massive land mass which is
> why it is what it is today. BTW: I don't care for government subsidizing
> either
>
> Attacking the root today would mean trillions in infrastructure changes
and
> in the end most of people in the US still live too far from work to
consider
> biking and most areas still do not have public transportation close by.
>
> > While
> > they are RAISING their tolls and fees, making car-free city centers,
etc.,
> > we are jacking up the subsidies, diverting more and more property,
sales,
> > and income taxes towards supporting drivers.
>
> No we (the US) are getting jacked up state and local taxes because of
> bloated state and local spending on things other than transportation, and
> the reason they (Europe) is raising tolls and fees is due to previously
> mentioned bloated socialistic programs.
>
> > Aside from the fact that this punishes the third of our society too
young,
> > old, handicapped or poor to drive, it makes driving WORSE, as the
streets
> > become clogged with those that otherwise wouldn't be driving. And then
> the
> > oil runs out - brilliant.
>
> They've been saying the oil will run out soon for decades now, I recall in
> the early 70's we had only 10-15 more years of oil left...I'm still
waiting
> and I seriously doubt I or my children will ever see it happen
 
B

Beach Runner

Guest
I can ride my recumbent on trails, but they are rough and I can't ride my road bike on the trails.
All it takes is a foot of extra concrete on the side of a road to make biking relatively safe.

Bob

john riley wrote:

>Jay <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<BC4C833E.2DBB0%[email protected]>...
>
>
>
>>Your statements conflict with that of most experienced cyclists. Could you clarify your cycling
>>expertise, please?
>>
>>
>
>I often ride and enjoy trails, but I don't think cyclists should be banned from the road.
>
>But as far as expertise goes, Florida seems to have gone off the map. I have doubts about the
>application of Forester's "Effective Cycling" principles in that enviroment. For example, he
>minimizes overtaking accidents. But if you removed kids, drunks, wrong way riders, and flagrant
>traffic law violaters from the statistics, since I am none of those, I think the overtaking
>accidents would start to become significant in the Florida environment.
>
>John Riley 1 at rogers dot com
 

jhuskey

Moderator
Oct 6, 2003
10,606
678
113
Originally posted by Robert Haston
[.

If you want to fight the problem, attack the roots, not the leaves. In Europe, cyclists are treated
with respect because lots of people cycle there. Lots of people cycle there because they don't
subsidize driving like we do - around a half-trillion a year. Gas in Europe is three times what it
is here not because they punish drivers, but because we reward them. While they are RAISING their
tolls and fees, making car-free city centers, etc., we are jacking up the subsidies, diverting more
and more property, sales, and income taxes towards supporting drivers.

Aside from the fact that this punishes the third of our society too young, old, handicapped or poor
to drive, it makes driving WORSE, as the streets become clogged with those that otherwise wouldn't
be driving. And then the oil runs out - brilliant.
QUOTE]

First let me say how terrible I feel for this family, personally knowing what it is like to lose someone close to you in a senseless traffic accident.
I am in favor of bike trails ,being in a area where there are none.
I do not believe the US will ever evolve into a cycling area like Europe. Our population is not mentally geared that way and mainly because of the differences in distances traveled.
I personally have a 40 minute drive each day both ways. That would translate into about a 2 hour ride for me each way every day and a lot of people have more. For this reason I don't see the trend from automobile transportation changing.
"Europe where 200 miles is a long way". "The USA where 200 years is a long time".
 
C

Curtis L . Russ

Guest
On Mon, 9 Feb 2004 07:45:52 -0500, "Freewheeling"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>LAB refuses to do that, or at least they used to. I haven't paid attention over the last year as to
>whether a new LAB leadership may have changed the priorities.

Hardly. Pushing for federal funding for bike facility projects allow them to rub shoulders with
federal officials and people that sell bikes (whether they are used or not is irrelevant). LAB
evinces little interest in actually promoting on-road cycling, and it is rare they take the time to
actually speak up in defense of on-road cyclists or in protest of attacks on on-road cyclists.

The hilarious part (if you are into sick humor) is that they pretty much take the position that on-
road cycling advocacy falls into local advocacy (and they do little in Virginia or Maryland and the
Washington Area Bicyclist Association out-muscles them in their current 'home state' of DC. As LAB
has no real program to support local advocates, much less have a LAB local advocacy infrastructure,
this pretty much leaves them out - which is where they want to be.

On-road advocacy, local and national, is thankless compared to pushing for bike path funding, and it
produces few of the photo ops that their pet senators and paid sponsors like to have. So do hold
your breath waiting for the current crop of LAB officials to do anything of consequence.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... LAB Life member from before some
of the current officials were born...
 
E

Edward Dolan

Guest
"Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]_s54>...

> "Robert Haston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
[...]
> > Aside from the fact that this punishes the third of our society too young, old, handicapped or
> > poor to drive, it makes driving WORSE, as the streets become clogged with those that otherwise
> > wouldn't be driving. And then
> the oil runs out - brilliant.
>
> They've been saying the oil will run out soon for decades now, I recall in the early 70's we had
> only 10-15 more years of oil left...I'm still waiting and I seriously doubt I or my children will
> ever see it happen.

Mark, I have been waiting all of my life for the oil to run out too. It has got to run out some day
as there is only so much of it and nature isn't making it anymore. But I believe there will be
scientific breakthroughs and technological fixes for the problem so that it won't matter when the
oil does eventually run out.

Admittedly it is getting harder and harder to get it. It doesn't just bubble out of the ground
anymore like it used to in Texas and Oklahoma. But of one thing I am very sure, bicycles will never
replace motorized vehicles. We humans are way too lazy to be pedaling except for sport and
recreation. When we have to go someplace, like to work for instance, we will always want to drive.
And the whole world is exactly like us in this respect. Even the Dutch I suspect!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota
 
M

Mark Leuck

Guest
"Freewheeling" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mark:
>
> Actually the reason for most tolls and fees on highways in the US is to control congestion. This
> was one of my research fields a few years ago,
so
> I know. In fact, there have been proposals to privatize some roads so the fees would go to a for-
> profit company and wouldn't be collected by the
state
> at all. There are a few "demonstration projects" for privately owned and maintained toll roads,
> but they're rare now.

As you have researched it I'll go for that explaination

> Also, regarding bike paths, if they aren't designed with cutouts, bridges, overpasses, and other
> means for coping with intersections the odds are
that
> they'll increase the likelihood of accidents rather than diminish them.
And
> cutouts, etc. are expensive.

Yup which is why it will end up costing more and in the end taking more away from taxpayers

> Although I think bike trails are important for traversing relatively long distances (inter-city,
> etc.), and the DC-VA-MD system is about the most extensive in the country, the way to reduce
> accidents in to increase the number of cyclists so that motorists are used to seeing them, and to
> aggressively prosecute motorists who are at fault in an accident (which includes passing
> appropriate legislation).

Why wouldn't this also cause a sharp rise in cyclist/car accidents? You know what will happen then,
we'd get an earful from focus groups about how dangerous things are then you'd see congress enacting
more useless laws etc etc

Here in the Dallas/Ft Worth areas bike paths are in few areas (mostly parks) and if they did exist
it would still be a long drive (in some cases 30-40 miles?) one way to work, now if I'm going to go
that far and I'm the average joe I'd think I'd rather go in a car, expecially since its well into
the 100's during summer afternoons.

People drive to work mostly because thats what they prefer to do
 
M

Mark Leuck

Guest
Easy to say but sometimes hard if not impossible to do and expensive if it could be done, around
here they now plan for wider areas when building a road however much of that design is in case they
need to expand the road later not for bike paths

The US for the most part treats bicycling as a hobby and not as a requirement, we do this because we
CAN do it.

"Beach Runner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I can ride my recumbent on trails, but they are rough and I can't ride my road bike on the trails.
> All it takes is a foot of extra concrete on the side of a road to make biking relatively safe.
>
> Bob
>
> john riley wrote:
>
> >Jay <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<BC4C833E.2DBB0%[email protected]>...
> >
> >
> >
> >>Your statements conflict with that of most experienced cyclists. Could you clarify your cycling
> >>expertise, please?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I often ride and enjoy trails, but I don't think cyclists should be banned from the road.
> >
> >But as far as expertise goes, Florida seems to have gone off the map. I have doubts about the
> >application of Forester's "Effective Cycling" principles in that enviroment. For example, he
> >minimizes overtaking accidents. But if you removed kids, drunks, wrong way riders, and flagrant
> >traffic law violaters from the statistics, since I am none of those, I think the overtaking
> >accidents would start to become significant in the Florida environment.
> >
> >John Riley 1 at rogers dot com
> >
 
R

Robert Haston

Guest
The point isn't whether we will become Europe or not, we won't. The point is subsidizing anything
that doesn't clearly help our society (education, law enforcement, etc.) is bad. Beyond being
counter to capitalism and democracy, diverting our dollars away from the young, old, handicapped and
poor is terrible and hypocritical.

"jhuskey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I do not believe the US will ever evolve into a cycling area like Europe. Our population is not
> mentally geared that way and mainly because of the differences in distances traveled. I
> personally have a 40 minute drive each day both ways. That would translate into about a 2 hour
> ride for me each way every day and a lot of people have more. For this reason I don't see the
> trend from automobile transportation changing. "Europe where 200 miles is a long way". "The USA
> where 200 years is a long time".
>
>
>
> --