Bike deaths in FL ...

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Robert Siegel, Feb 8, 2004.

  1. "Just zis Guy, you know?" skrev...
    > Not quite. Motoring taxation in most European countries either just about meets the costs of
    > private motoring to the economy, or falls well short, according to whose estimates you read. Of
    > course that gets skewed a bit as we now have to pay the bill for an oil-access war.

    In Denmark gasoline is actually at an all time low due to pricewars between the companies. 6-7 DKK
    or so per litre. I read somewhere that it ought to be 20 DKK per litre to pay for the actual damage
    cars cause. The big picture I mean with environmental and health impact factored in. Cars are not
    evil though. Its just that people often use them improperly and the only way to educate them is via
    their wallet. Just a shame our politicians are too wussy to introduce roadpricing.

    > And our "bloated socialistic programs" include a health service where if you get sick, you get
    > treated. Nobody checks for your medical card when the ambulance arrives at a crash. Also literacy
    > rates are higher than in the US due to good quality state schools.
    >
    > I quite like that sort of bloated socialistic system.

    Well said comrade Gu... ehm I mean what socialists? I'm also quite fond of our bloated socialistic
    programs. The day I'm not I can always move to the US I suppose. If you don't want to pay that
    particular tax don't buy a car. Pretty simple really.

    Looks like its getting close to killfile time for this thread.

    Lovely weather here today btw. 7C and sunny with a light wind. Took the VK2 out and had a ball.
    After the 23 kg TE-clone 10-11 kgs feels like a feather. (Recumbent content ;o) )

    Mikael
     


  2. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>... [...]

    > And our "bloated socialistic programs" include a health service where if you get sick, you get
    > treated. Nobody checks for your medical card when the ambulance arrives at a crash. Also literacy
    > rates are higher than in the US due to good quality state schools.
    >
    > I quite like that sort of bloated socialistic system.

    There are a few things about the way we do things in the US that could be improved upon. How we pay
    for health care is one of them. I have spoken out previously in this forum on this subject and so I
    won't repeat myself here, other than to say that health care needs to be made a right just like
    primary schooling is a right and it needs to be financed the same way (not property taxes though,
    but income taxes). I do not like value added taxes which are really nothing but sales taxes and are
    highly regressive. Taxes need always to come from those who are most able to pay them - the rich,
    and should always be highly progressive. Frankly, it is a scandal how the US pays for health care.

    Literacy rates are a separate problem and may or may not be related to the amount and quality of
    schooling available. I sometimes think it is more a cultural phenomenon than anything else. We spend
    more on education in this country than anywhere else in the world - and we don't get much for it.
    Spending more on education is obviously not the answer.

    Europe does not have socialism. It has the welfare state. The two are not the same. The US is moving
    toward the welfare state but is not yet there. With the recent immigration (legal and illegal) to
    this country it is going to get ever more likely and certain.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  3. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > "Just zis Guy, you know?" skrev...
    > > Not quite. Motoring taxation in most European countries either just about meets the costs of
    > > private motoring to the economy, or falls well short, according to whose estimates you read. Of
    > > course that gets skewed a bit as we now have to pay the bill for an oil-access war.
    >
    > In Denmark gasoline is actually at an all time low due to pricewars between the companies. 6-7 DKK
    > or so per litre. I read somewhere that it ought to be 20 DKK per litre to pay for the actual
    > damage cars cause. The big picture I mean with environmental and health impact factored in. Cars
    > are not evil though. Its just that people often use them improperly and the only way to educate
    > them is via their wallet. Just a shame our politicians are too wussy to introduce roadpricing.

    There are other ways that societies determine how things are going to be paid for other than making
    the users pay according to their usage. Most of the cultural amenities of a society are not paid for
    this way, most especially in Europe where there are major subsidies of the arts. The roads and
    motoring can also be subsidized and there is nothing wrong or evil about it. No bike trail would
    ever be built if it depended on user fees. There would be no schools or libraries or parks either
    and society would not be worth living in if there were not subsidies for just about everything that
    makes life worth living.

    Our mortal enemies should not be variants of the welfare state, but variants of libertarianism. That
    is the true abomination and the true horror. Individualism gone amok is just as bad as collectivism
    gone amok. A middle ground or balance is everything.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  4. Bill G

    Bill G Guest

    TX or AL? bill g

    watsonglenn wrote:

    > In my city of Huntsville
     
  5. Wheel Doctor

    Wheel Doctor Guest

    ED, What you bring up is very much in my mind. My wife of 26 years has had many many medical
    problems. Those that have followed this group and my posts are aware of it. So being in an area of
    available good medical care is very important. Some of her more exotic stuff was performed at John
    Hopkins with great success. However, She is again working out every day and looking forward to
    riding her Penninger when the weather improves. I'm even considering a tandem trike, however since
    much of her problem involves the spine, gettin in and out of a tadploe trike is tough. The Penninger
    is a bit higher and with a parking brake I devised as well as a T-bar for her to pull herself up
    with it works well and she can get in and out without help. As for the topic of this thread. The
    east coast has now just started to realize the value of the trail system. However, I still want the
    option to ride on the road.

    Jude

    "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Wheel Doctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > Ed, Once you leane the town its very nice riding. Other parts of the
    county
    > > are even nicer. On a summer Sunday AM I have an area where for 30 miles
    you
    > > may not encounter a car at all. Where I live is quite quiet most of the time. Although the
    > > county has more coastline than California because its
    all
    > > tidal and non-tidal creeks, coves and bay, you can not ride directly
    along
    > > it in very many places. Still all in all its a very scenic area rich in colonial, Civil War and
    > > Chesapeake Bay water travel and seafood industry lore. The island where I live is in... say 10
    > > years going to be over populated with homes built for the Baltimore and DC retiree and second
    home
    > > crowd. Its unavoidable. So when it's too much for me I will pull up a go.....possibly to the
    > > desert or hills of WV,KY or AK. Minnesota is out
    of
    > > the question. Too cold...Burrrrr. I may be up there sometime in the next
    90
    > > or so days. Wife's mom is not doing well. She is 92.
    >
    > Jude, I know what you are talking about with respect to the entire East Coast from Portland to
    > Norfolk. It is filling up and will one day be entirely urbanized, just one suburb flowing into
    > another.
    >
    > As you look around the country for more open spaces, there are still plenty of places to go, but
    > one thing that kicks in as you get older is to be able to access certain services and conveniences
    > that only come with a certain level of human habitation. As you are no doubt discovering with your
    > mother in law you need to have certain services available. Minnesota has this infrastructure in
    > place. There are parts of the Dakotas for instance that do not have this infrastructure in place
    > anymore if they ever did. And so as we get older we are much more restricted in where we can live
    > than if we were young and healthy.
    >
    > But you are sure right about Minnesota being too darn cold. The place was originally settled for
    > its resources, mainly the good prairie soil for farming where I live (the soil is so black it is
    > blue - hence the town named Blue Earth in Southern Minnesota). But Hells Bells, if you are just
    > going to work on a production line in a factory, you are far better off almost anyplace else than
    > here. I can also think of about a zillion places where you would be better off for retirement
    > purposes too, but the trouble is we all of us get trapped by one thing or another in the course of
    > living our lives in a given locale.
    >
    > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  6. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    Guy:

    Not an "oil access war." For intelligent people to be reduced to repeating that shiboleth as part of
    their day to day maintenance of a wishful-thinking worldview guages how far we have drifted from an
    accurate perception of what it takes to maintain civilization. I'm with you on health care though,
    more or less. The rest, maybe not.

    Interestingly, it turns out that pro-Americanism is growing in Iran as a result of the favorable
    impression made by American troops on Shi'ite pilgrims to the holy cities. And *that* is a distant
    reflection of what we're doing there, and why we went. For a more rational dialogue of this issue
    than you're likely to see on the lips of any administration official check out:

    http://windsofchange.net/archives/004553.html

    --
    --Scott
    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 09:14:25 GMT, "Mark Leuck" <[email protected]>
    > wrote in message <[email protected]_s54>:
    >
    > >gas is three times higher over there because of taxes to pay for bloated
    > >socialistic programs
    >
    > Not quite. Motoring taxation in most European countries either just
    > about meets the costs of private motoring to the economy, or falls
    > well short, according to whose estimates you read. Of course that
    > gets skewed a bit as we now have to pay the bill for an oil-access
    > war.
    >
    > And our "bloated socialistic programs" include a health service where
    > if you get sick, you get treated. Nobody checks for your medical card
    > when the ambulance arrives at a crash. Also literacy rates are higher
    > than in the US due to good quality state schools.
    >
    > I quite like that sort of bloated socialistic system.
    >
    > Guy
    > ===
    > May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    > http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
    >
    > 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at the University of
    Washington.
     
  7. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Wheel Doctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > ED, What you bring up is very much in my mind. My wife of 26 years has had many many medical
    > problems. Those that have followed this group and my posts are aware of it. So being in an area of
    > available good medical care is very important. Some of her more exotic stuff was performed at John
    > Hopkins with great success. However, She is again working out every day and looking forward to
    > riding her Penninger when the weather improves. I'm even considering a tandem trike, however since
    > much of her problem involves the spine, getting in and out of a tadpole trike is tough. The
    > Penninger is a bit higher and with a parking brake I devised as well as a T-bar for her to pull
    > herself up with it works well and she can get in and out without help. As for the topic of this
    > thread. The east coast has now just started to realize the value of the trail system. However, I
    > still want the option to ride on the road.
    >
    > Jude

    Jude, if your wife has complicated medical problems and she will need to be monitored you had best
    forget about living in an isolated area of the country. You will need at least to be within a few
    hours of a regional medical center. I have a friend whose wife is similarly ailing and she lives
    within one hour of a regional medical center and it is just barely adequate for her needs.

    When I was young I use to imagine myself living in all sorts of exotic places. Now I know that is
    impossible. I have to be within reasonable reach of doctors, pharmacies and hospitals. Sooner or
    later we all end up in this situation. The only way to look at it is that we would be dead a whole
    lot sooner if it weren't for the miracles of modern medicine. I only have the normal health problems
    that go with getting old, but I live within one block of the Emergency Room. I figure I can crawl
    over there on my hands and knees if worse comes to worse. And so I have given up the idea of running
    off to Alaska or the Yukon. I am doomed to living here in Minnesota.

    I have cycled many a road that in retrospect was nothing but a death trap. I will go many miles out
    of my way in order to avoid such roads. Yet I have seen other cyclists travel those very same roads
    that I dread with nary a qualm. Many cyclists are fearless if truth be told. Fortunately, Minnesota
    and Iowa and much of the rural Upper Midwest have literally thousands of miles of county blacktops
    that are safe for cycling. That does not seem to be the case in many other areas of the country.
    Either the roads have terrible sight lines and/or the traffic is just too heavy for safe cycling. I
    cycle the roads here in the Upper Midwest all the time, but I will admit when I am visiting my
    sister in Fairfax, Virginia I look for bike trails always in preference to any roads.

    By the way, I have the precursor to your Penninger trike. It was called the Coos Bay Flyer. It is
    one of the best trikes I have ever had. The only downside to it is that it is a bit on the heavy
    side, but I gave up on speed 10 years ago. It tracks like it is on rails and you can play with the
    seat to get it more comfy than your easy chair at home in front of the TV. I got mine as an
    unpainted frameset and it took me a year to figure out how to put it together. In the meantime I had
    the most expensive coat rack known to mankind. I use it now exclusively as my winter trike.

    Best Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  8. Wheel Doctor

    Wheel Doctor Guest

    Ed, The lower eastern shore of Maryland still has plenty of rural roads and actually so does much of
    the area south of DC and in Anne Arundal County (Annapolis) as well a Calvert County. Aslong as you
    stick to the secondary roads with some excursions to the primarys its pretty safe. I'm always
    thinking of more desolate areas to move to but it never happens. Possibly in the not so distant
    future I will consider the Southwest. Each year we spend time in Las Vegas to attend the bike show
    and then visit friends in S. Cal.. The wife's arthritic problems diminish remarkably in a short time
    and she feels so much better. The Penninger is a really nice delta trike. I like to ride it too. The
    down side is the brakes. I have replaced the original calipers with Ultegra and KoolStop pads. Much
    improved. I also installed a front brake with a locking lever. It more of a parking brake than
    anything else. It will be modified more to accomidate the wife better. I'm going to a distribuitors
    open house Sunday and I am getting two cranksets one 160mm and one 155mm. Wife has one leg shorter
    by 5mm. When she rides with the current crankset, proper leg extinsion makes her left foot
    hyperextend and creates a sore achillies tendon. So this rig will hopefully remedy this. For other
    reasons she has always used KneeSavers on her former steeds. She is limited to low impact workouts.
    She spends most of her gym time on the low impact machines and nautilus. She is hoping to do a
    metric in the fall. We shall see. Have you ever considered attending the HostelShoppe Rally in
    Stevens Point, WI? Its nice weekend and not all that far from you. I have been there for the last
    two. Will likely go this year.

    Jude

    "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Wheel Doctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > ED, What you bring up is very much in my mind. My wife of 26 years has
    had
    > > many many medical problems. Those that have followed this group and my
    posts
    > > are aware of it. So being in an area of available good medical care is
    very
    > > important. Some of her more exotic stuff was performed at John Hopkins
    with
    > > great success. However, She is again working out every day and looking forward to riding her
    > > Penninger when the weather improves. I'm even considering a tandem trike, however since much of
    > > her problem involves
    the
    > > spine, getting in and out of a tadpole trike is tough. The Penninger is
    a bit
    > > higher and with a parking brake I devised as well as a T-bar for her to
    pull
    > > herself up with it works well and she can get in and out without help.
    > > As for the topic of this thread. The east coast has now just
    started
    > > to realize the value of the trail system. However, I still want the
    option
    > > to ride on the road.
    > >
    > > Jude
    >
    >
    > Jude, if your wife has complicated medical problems and she will need to be monitored you had best
    > forget about living in an isolated area of the country. You will need at least to be within a few
    > hours of a regional medical center. I have a friend whose wife is similarly ailing and she lives
    > within one hour of a regional medical center and it is just barely adequate for her needs.
    >
    > When I was young I use to imagine myself living in all sorts of exotic places. Now I know that is
    > impossible. I have to be within reasonable reach of doctors, pharmacies and hospitals. Sooner or
    > later we all end up in this situation. The only way to look at it is that we would be dead a whole
    > lot sooner if it weren't for the miracles of modern medicine. I only have the normal health
    > problems that go with getting old, but I live within one block of the Emergency Room. I figure I
    > can crawl over there on my hands and knees if worse comes to worse. And so I have given up the
    > idea of running off to Alaska or the Yukon. I am doomed to living here in Minnesota.
    >
    > I have cycled many a road that in retrospect was nothing but a death trap. I will go many miles
    > out of my way in order to avoid such roads. Yet I have seen other cyclists travel those very same
    > roads that I dread with nary a qualm. Many cyclists are fearless if truth be told. Fortunately,
    > Minnesota and Iowa and much of the rural Upper Midwest have literally thousands of miles of county
    > blacktops that are safe for cycling. That does not seem to be the case in many other areas of the
    > country. Either the roads have terrible sight lines and/or the traffic is just too heavy for safe
    > cycling. I cycle the roads here in the Upper Midwest all the time, but I will admit when I am
    > visiting my sister in Fairfax, Virginia I look for bike trails always in preference to any roads.
    >
    > By the way, I have the precursor to your Penninger trike. It was called the Coos Bay Flyer. It is
    > one of the best trikes I have ever had. The only downside to it is that it is a bit on the heavy
    > side, but I gave up on speed 10 years ago. It tracks like it is on rails and you can play with the
    > seat to get it more comfy than your easy chair at home in front of the TV. I got mine as an
    > unpainted frameset and it took me a year to figure out how to put it together. In the meantime I
    > had the most expensive coat rack known to mankind. I use it now exclusively as my winter trike.
    >
    > Best Regards,
    >
    > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  9. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    My favorite ride is the "Happy Harbor" ride that starts from Harwood School. "Happy Harbor" is a
    biker bar/restaurant in Deale, MD. And by "biker" I don't mean the pedal variety. Man, some of
    those biker babes are *awsome*. I once met John Anderson (the former independent candidate for
    President) at the Happy Harbor. I don't think he was on a Harley though. He had his wife and mother-in-
    law with him.

    --
    --Scott
    "Wheel Doctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > Ed,
    > The lower eastern shore of Maryland still has plenty of rural roads and
    > actually so does much of the area south of DC and in Anne Arundal County
    > (Annapolis) as well a Calvert County. Aslong as you stick to the secondary
    > roads with some excursions to the primarys its pretty safe.
    > I'm always thinking of more desolate areas to move to but it never
    > happens. Possibly in the not so distant future I will consider the
    > Southwest. Each year we spend time in Las Vegas to attend the bike show
    and
    > then visit friends in S. Cal.. The wife's arthritic problems diminish
    > remarkably in a short time and she feels so much better.
    > The Penninger is a really nice delta trike. I like to ride it too.
    The
    > down side is the brakes. I have replaced the original calipers with
    Ultegra
    > and KoolStop pads. Much improved. I also installed a front brake with a
    > locking lever. It more of a parking brake than anything else. It will be
    > modified more to accomidate the wife better. I'm going to a distribuitors
    > open house Sunday and I am getting two cranksets one 160mm and one 155mm.
    > Wife has one leg shorter by 5mm. When she rides with the current crankset,
    > proper leg extinsion makes her left foot hyperextend and creates a sore
    > achillies tendon. So this rig will hopefully remedy this. For other
    reasons
    > she has always used KneeSavers on her former steeds.
    > She is limited to low impact workouts. She spends most of her gym
    > time on the low impact machines and nautilus. She is hoping to do a metric
    > in the fall. We shall see.
    > Have you ever considered attending the HostelShoppe Rally in
    Stevens
    > Point, WI? Its nice weekend and not all that far from you. I have been
    there
    > for the last two. Will likely go this year.
    >
    > Jude
    >
    >
    > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Wheel Doctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > >
    > > > ED,
    > > > What you bring up is very much in my mind. My wife of 26 years has
    > had
    > > > many many medical problems. Those that have followed this group and my
    > posts
    > > > are aware of it. So being in an area of available good medical care is
    > very
    > > > important. Some of her more exotic stuff was performed at John Hopkins
    > with
    > > > great success. However, She is again working out every day and
    looking
    > > > forward to riding her Penninger when the weather improves. I'm even
    > > > considering a tandem trike, however since much of her problem involves
    > the
    > > > spine, getting in and out of a tadpole trike is tough. The Penninger
    is
    > a bit
    > > > higher and with a parking brake I devised as well as a T-bar for her
    to
    > pull
    > > > herself up with it works well and she can get in and out without help.
    > > > As for the topic of this thread. The east coast has now just
    > started
    > > > to realize the value of the trail system. However, I still want the
    > option
    > > > to ride on the road.
    > > >
    > > > Jude
    > >
    > >
    > > Jude, if your wife has complicated medical problems and she will need
    > > to be monitored you had best forget about living in an isolated area
    > > of the country. You will need at least to be within a few hours of a
    > > regional medical center. I have a friend whose wife is similarly
    > > ailing and she lives within one hour of a regional medical center and
    > > it is just barely adequate for her needs.
    > >
    > > When I was young I use to imagine myself living in all sorts of exotic
    > > places. Now I know that is impossible. I have to be within reasonable
    > > reach of doctors, pharmacies and hospitals. Sooner or later we all end
    > > up in this situation. The only way to look at it is that we would be
    > > dead a whole lot sooner if it weren't for the miracles of modern
    > > medicine. I only have the normal health problems that go with getting
    > > old, but I live within one block of the Emergency Room. I figure I can
    > > crawl over there on my hands and knees if worse comes to worse. And so
    > > I have given up the idea of running off to Alaska or the Yukon. I am
    > > doomed to living here in Minnesota.
    > >
    > > I have cycled many a road that in retrospect was nothing but a death
    > > trap. I will go many miles out of my way in order to avoid such roads.
    > > Yet I have seen other cyclists travel those very same roads that I
    > > dread with nary a qualm. Many cyclists are fearless if truth be told.
    > > Fortunately, Minnesota and Iowa and much of the rural Upper Midwest
    > > have literally thousands of miles of county blacktops that are safe
    > > for cycling. That does not seem to be the case in many other areas of
    > > the country. Either the roads have terrible sight lines and/or the
    > > traffic is just too heavy for safe cycling. I cycle the roads here in
    > > the Upper Midwest all the time, but I will admit when I am visiting my
    > > sister in Fairfax, Virginia I look for bike trails always in
    > > preference to any roads.
    > >
    > > By the way, I have the precursor to your Penninger trike. It was
    > > called the Coos Bay Flyer. It is one of the best trikes I have ever
    > > had. The only downside to it is that it is a bit on the heavy side,
    > > but I gave up on speed 10 years ago. It tracks like it is on rails and
    > > you can play with the seat to get it more comfy than your easy chair
    > > at home in front of the TV. I got mine as an unpainted frameset and it
    > > took me a year to figure out how to put it together. In the meantime I
    > > had the most expensive coat rack known to mankind. I use it now
    > > exclusively as my winter trike.
    > >
    > > Best Regards,
    > >
    > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  10. Wheel Doctor

    Wheel Doctor Guest

    Scott, I know the ride. Perhaps you will ride with us this year. We often start at Southern HS at
    Harwood and go down to that former biker paradise of North Beach....which by the way is directly
    across the bay from Tilghman Island I can see the lights from here in the loft. There are some
    interesting hills in this ride. Short but quite steep. We were planning to head that way last Sunday
    but it never happened.

    Jude

    "Freewheeling" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    berlin.de...
    > My favorite ride is the "Happy Harbor" ride that starts from Harwood
    School.
    > "Happy Harbor" is a biker bar/restaurant in Deale, MD. And by "biker" I don't mean the pedal
    > variety. Man, some of those biker babes are
    *awsome*.
    > I once met John Anderson (the former independent candidate for President)
    at
    > the Happy Harbor. I don't think he was on a Harley though. He had his
    wife
    > and mother-in-law with him.
    >
    > --
    > --Scott "Wheel Doctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:p[email protected]...
    > > Ed, The lower eastern shore of Maryland still has plenty of rural roads
    and
    > > actually so does much of the area south of DC and in Anne Arundal County (Annapolis) as well a
    > > Calvert County. Aslong as you stick to the
    secondary
    > > roads with some excursions to the primarys its pretty safe. I'm always thinking of more desolate
    > > areas to move to but it never happens. Possibly in the not so distant future I will consider the
    > > Southwest. Each year we spend time in Las Vegas to attend the bike show
    > and
    > > then visit friends in S. Cal.. The wife's arthritic problems diminish remarkably in a short time
    > > and she feels so much better. The Penninger is a really nice delta trike. I like to ride it too.
    > The
    > > down side is the brakes. I have replaced the original calipers with
    > Ultegra
    > > and KoolStop pads. Much improved. I also installed a front brake with a locking lever. It more
    > > of a parking brake than anything else. It will
    be
    > > modified more to accomidate the wife better. I'm going to a
    distribuitors
    > > open house Sunday and I am getting two cranksets one 160mm and one
    155mm.
    > > Wife has one leg shorter by 5mm. When she rides with the current
    crankset,
    > > proper leg extinsion makes her left foot hyperextend and creates a sore achillies tendon. So
    > > this rig will hopefully remedy this. For other
    > reasons
    > > she has always used KneeSavers on her former steeds. She is limited to low impact workouts. She
    > > spends most of her gym time on the low impact machines and nautilus. She is hoping to do a
    metric
    > > in the fall. We shall see. Have you ever considered attending the HostelShoppe Rally in
    > Stevens
    > > Point, WI? Its nice weekend and not all that far from you. I have been
    > there
    > > for the last two. Will likely go this year.
    > >
    > > Jude
    > >
    > >
    > > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > "Wheel Doctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > >
    > > > > ED, What you bring up is very much in my mind. My wife of 26 years
    has
    > > had
    > > > > many many medical problems. Those that have followed this group and
    my
    > > posts
    > > > > are aware of it. So being in an area of available good medical care
    is
    > > very
    > > > > important. Some of her more exotic stuff was performed at John
    Hopkins
    > > with
    > > > > great success. However, She is again working out every day and
    > looking
    > > > > forward to riding her Penninger when the weather improves. I'm even considering a tandem
    > > > > trike, however since much of her problem
    involves
    > > the
    > > > > spine, getting in and out of a tadpole trike is tough. The Penninger
    > is
    > > a bit
    > > > > higher and with a parking brake I devised as well as a T-bar for her
    > to
    > > pull
    > > > > herself up with it works well and she can get in and out without
    help.
    > > > > As for the topic of this thread. The east coast has now just
    > > started
    > > > > to realize the value of the trail system. However, I still want the
    > > option
    > > > > to ride on the road.
    > > > >
    > > > > Jude
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Jude, if your wife has complicated medical problems and she will need to be monitored you had
    > > > best forget about living in an isolated area of the country. You will need at least to be
    > > > within a few hours of a regional medical center. I have a friend whose wife is similarly
    > > > ailing and she lives within one hour of a regional medical center and it is just barely
    > > > adequate for her needs.
    > > >
    > > > When I was young I use to imagine myself living in all sorts of exotic places. Now I know that
    > > > is impossible. I have to be within reasonable reach of doctors, pharmacies and hospitals.
    > > > Sooner or later we all end up in this situation. The only way to look at it is that we would
    > > > be dead a whole lot sooner if it weren't for the miracles of modern medicine. I only have the
    > > > normal health problems that go with getting old, but I live within one block of the Emergency
    > > > Room. I figure I can crawl over there on my hands and knees if worse comes to worse. And so I
    > > > have given up the idea of running off to Alaska or the Yukon. I am doomed to living here in
    > > > Minnesota.
    > > >
    > > > I have cycled many a road that in retrospect was nothing but a death trap. I will go many
    > > > miles out of my way in order to avoid such roads. Yet I have seen other cyclists travel those
    > > > very same roads that I dread with nary a qualm. Many cyclists are fearless if truth be told.
    > > > Fortunately, Minnesota and Iowa and much of the rural Upper Midwest have literally thousands
    > > > of miles of county blacktops that are safe for cycling. That does not seem to be the case in
    > > > many other areas of the country. Either the roads have terrible sight lines and/or the traffic
    > > > is just too heavy for safe cycling. I cycle the roads here in the Upper Midwest all the time,
    > > > but I will admit when I am visiting my sister in Fairfax, Virginia I look for bike trails
    > > > always in preference to any roads.
    > > >
    > > > By the way, I have the precursor to your Penninger trike. It was called the Coos Bay Flyer. It
    > > > is one of the best trikes I have ever had. The only downside to it is that it is a bit on the
    > > > heavy side, but I gave up on speed 10 years ago. It tracks like it is on rails and you can
    > > > play with the seat to get it more comfy than your easy chair at home in front of the TV. I got
    > > > mine as an unpainted frameset and it took me a year to figure out how to put it together. In
    > > > the meantime I had the most expensive coat rack known to mankind. I use it now exclusively as
    > > > my winter trike.
    > > >
    > > > Best Regards,
    > > >
    > > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
    > >
    >
     
  11. Geob

    Geob Guest

    > Interestingly, it turns out that pro-Americanism is growing in Iran

    Years ago, during the Shaw's reign, I was an engineering student at a medium size university. We had
    a medium sized engineering department of no special note. More than 1/2 of the students were from
    Iran [1]. At that time the US had lots of interaction with Iran, and many of the 'westernized'
    Iranians saw value in closer relations with us. After the Shaw fell and the conservative religious
    order took control of the government, those with a pro-western orientation were not generally free
    to voice their opinions or direct the course of their nation. After the hostage crises soured the
    Amerikan publik on Iran, we made no effort to direct our ire specifically towards the Iranian sector
    that generated the anti-amerikan tirades and demonstrations. We turned our backs on hundreds of
    thousands of potential strong allies when we responded that way. With all the westernized Iranians
    hunkering down out of sight, the religious right was able to control everything. I don't know if we
    could have done anything that would effectively elevate our interests, except maybe to send a
    positive message to our friends there. Or maybe not to have controlled their government the way we
    did, but Hey! Who knows? It has never been tried.

    [1] I came to clearly see that our cultures were very dissimilar. Cheating on tests was the rule
    [2]. One guy would take his test to the front of the class to ostensibly ask the prof a
    question. He would shift around so that the prof had to turn his back to the classroom in order
    to talk to him. Suddenly many of the Iranian heads would lean together as they compared papers
    and answers. People standing in a queue? Not Iranians! They just walk to the front and shoulder
    in. Have your hand up to ask a question, waiting your turn? No such courtesy will be recognized
    by the Iranians. They will just shout out their question and interrupt you. But I've been told
    this is common to many cultures.

    [2] If you want to flame me over this, take note that I am relating personal experiences, this is a
    first-hand account.
     
  12. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Wheel Doctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > Ed, The lower eastern shore of Maryland still has plenty of rural roads and actually so does much
    > of the area south of DC and in Anne Arundal County (Annapolis) as well a Calvert County. As long
    > as you stick to the secondary roads with some excursions to the primarys its pretty safe.

    The Eastern Shore area was for a very long time quite isolated, but the Bridge over the Chesapeake
    Bay and the Bridge-Tunnel over and under the Hampton Roads took care of that. It is just a matter of
    time until all that rural aspect that you and I like so much will be permanently gone. But enjoy it
    while you can. Suburban sprawl is the total ruination of this country in my humble opinion.

    > I'm always thinking of more desolate areas to move to but it never happens. Possibly in the
    > not so distant future I will consider the Southwest. Each year we spend time in Las Vegas to
    > attend the bike show and then visit friends in S. Cal.. The wife's arthritic problems
    > diminish remarkably in a short time and she feels so much better.

    Be careful of the Southwest for cycling. There appear to be only main highways there and secondary
    roads are few and far between. That is the beauty of the upper Midwest. There are a great supply of
    secondary roads and they are mostly blacktopped and so are ideal for cycling. However, if that
    climate in the Southwest truly improves your wife's arthritis, then it is a no brainer.

    I recall reading in a bicycle magazine an interview with Greg Lemond about where he would want to
    retire for the best possible cycling. He said Switzerland was his first choice (obviously, he had no
    problems with the mountains), but that his second choice would be Wisconsin. I think he was quite
    right about that. Wisconsin is truly a bicycle paradise. But you have to stay off of the main
    highways and stay on all those very many secondary roads. But they are everywhere and there is never
    much traffic on them. And the scenery just never stops. Minnesota is quite bleak by comparison.

    > The Penninger is a really nice delta trike. I like to ride it too. The down side is the
    > brakes. I have replaced the original calipers with Ultegra and KoolStop pads. Much improved.

    The KoolStop pads or their equivalents are the secret to getting pretty good brakes. I have got them
    on all of my many bikes. Maybe if I were in the mountains I would get concerned about brakes, but
    here in the flats brakes are not all that critical. As long as they slow me down and stop me - that
    is all I ask. [...]

    > Have you ever considered attending the Hostel Shoppe Rally in Stevens Point, WI? Its nice
    > weekend and not all that far from you. I have been there for the last two. Will likely go
    > this year.

    I once attended the Hostel Shoppe Rally several years ago. It was a really fun time for me. I love
    that Stevens Point area for cycling. And Rolf always has a pretty good selection of recumbents for
    us to try out. For the past several years I have usually been off on week long bike tours and so I
    have not been able to fit the Rally in. But who knows? This may be the year for me too. I will come
    incognito and will not tell anyone my name as I do not wish to be stoned to death by my fellow
    recumbent cyclists for my political views. However, I would never even dream of talking politics at
    a bicycle event. When I am around recumbents, all I ever want to talk about is recumbents.

    Best,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  13. Stratrider

    Stratrider Guest

    "Wheel Doctor" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Ed, The lower eastern shore of Maryland still has plenty of rural roads and actually so does much
    > of the area south of DC and in Anne Arundal County (Annapolis) as well a Calvert County. Aslong as
    > you stick to the secondary roads with some excursions to the primarys its pretty safe.

    Jude, I might also add that the annual Seagull Century to your southeast is a ride made for
    recumbents. For those unfamiliar with this ride, it is sponsored by Salisbury State University every
    year on the second Saturday in October. The folks at Salisbury do it right. I have done this ride
    for 5 years in row. By the way Jude, the Strada was a dream on the 2003 ride, even in the wind and
    rain! For those looking for a east coast event, check out SeagullCentury.Org for details. You can
    fly into Baltimore fairly cheaply. It's about a 3 hour drive to Salisbury. Check it out!

    Jim Reilly Reading, PA
     
  14. Freewheeling

    Freewheeling Guest

    GeoB:

    I've only known a couple of Iranians. They seemed, well, rather "brash." The fellow who built my
    computer is Iranian. Usually rather bright and well-mannered, but he didn't have any compunctions
    about calling me a "dummy" if I asked what he thought to be an ill-considered question, even though
    I was a customer. I thought that was a bit odd. If I were going to buy another computer I probably
    wouldn't buy from him, not because of that situation, but because of some other short cuts he took
    building mine. He first installed the heat sink incorrectly so that the processor overheated. Then
    when I insisted that he reinstall it he broke the motherboard removing it, and rather than replace
    the mobo with an identical he replaced it with something that was of lower capability, although
    equal quality. As a result I don't have quite the memory options I'd have otherwise had. (He didn't
    give me a price break, either.) Mind you, we're talking about the diffrence between a 2GB capacity
    and 4GBs, when I really haven't seen a need to upgrade from 1GB yet, but you never know.

    The other fellow was in my grad school, and I just don't remember much about him. Even if he had
    been inclined to cheat, there weren't any other Iranians for him to cheat with.

    I've had a number of middle easterners in the classes I instructed, but if they cheated I just
    didn't catch them, and I don't know if they were Iranian anyway. I got the impression that most of
    the kids would cheat, if they thought they could. But I gave really hard open book tests, and if
    they cheated they'd just be sharing wrong answers most of the time. Heh.

    --
    --Scott
    "GeoB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > Interestingly, it turns out that pro-Americanism
    > > is growing in Iran
    >
    > Years ago, during the Shaw's reign, I was an engineering student at a
    > medium size university. We had a medium sized engineering department
    > of no special note. More than 1/2 of the students were from Iran [1].
    > At that time the US had lots of interaction with Iran, and many of
    > the 'westernized' Iranians saw value in closer relations with us.
    > After the Shaw fell and the conservative religious order took control
    > of the government, those with a pro-western orientation were not
    > generally free to voice their opinions or direct the course of their
    > nation. After the hostage crises soured the Amerikan publik on Iran,
    > we made no effort to direct our ire specifically towards the Iranian
    > sector that generated the anti-amerikan tirades and demonstrations.
    > We turned our backs on hundreds of thousands of potential strong
    > allies when we responded that way. With all the westernized Iranians
    > hunkering down out of sight, the religious right was able to control
    > everything. I don't know if we could have done anything that would
    > effectively elevate our interests, except maybe to send a positive
    > message to our friends there. Or maybe not to have controlled their
    > government the way we did, but Hey! Who knows? It has never been
    > tried.
    >
    > [1] I came to clearly see that our cultures were very dissimilar.
    > Cheating on tests was the rule [2]. One guy would take his test to
    > the front of the class to ostensibly ask the prof a question. He
    > would shift around so that the prof had to turn his back to the
    > classroom in order to talk to him. Suddenly many of the Iranian heads
    > would lean together as they compared papers and answers. People
    > standing in a queue? Not Iranians! They just walk to the front and
    > shoulder in. Have your hand up to ask a question, waiting your turn?
    > No such courtesy will be recognized by the Iranians. They will just
    > shout out their question and interrupt you. But I've been told this
    > is common to many cultures.
    >
    > [2] If you want to flame me over this, take note that I am relating
    > personal experiences, this is a first-hand account.
     
  15. Geob

    Geob Guest

    > Aside from the fact that this punishes the third of our society too young, old, handicapped or
    > poor to drive, it makes driving WORSE, as the streets become clogged with those that otherwise
    > wouldn't be driving. And then the oil runs out - brilliant.

    Bravo, Robert! Well said! We can't hear the truth too much.

    One day we will wake up and find that the oil is all gone. That which could have made medicines, etc
    for thousands of years.. we just burned it up. The fat-cats will say, "So long suckers... we are
    taking the money and running... you have no alternate transportation system, no energy system, no
    manufacturing system geared to today's realities! And NO time left to develop one... no capital left
    to build one..."

    GeoB

    "A lie makes it around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes"

    -- Mark Twain
     
  16. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    [email protected] (GeoB) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > > Interestingly, it turns out that pro-Americanism is growing in Iran
    >
    > Years ago, during the Shaw's reign,

    shah [ shaa ] noun hereditary monarch of Iran: formerly, the hereditary monarch of certain Middle
    Eastern nations, especially Iran [Mid-16th century. Via Persian ?ah from Old Persian x?ayathiya-
    "king" (source of English check).] shah·dom noun

    Encarta Encyclopedia Dictionary

    I was an engineering student at a
    > medium size university. We had a medium sized engineering department of no special note. More than
    > 1/2 of the students were from Iran [1]. At that time the US had lots of interaction with Iran, and
    > many of the 'westernized' Iranians saw value in closer relations with us. After the Shaw fell and
    > the conservative religious order took control of the government, those with a pro-western
    > orientation were not generally free to voice their opinions or direct the course of their nation.
    > After the hostage crises soured the Amerikan publik on Iran, we made no effort to direct our ire
    > specifically towards the Iranian sector that generated the anti-amerikan tirades and
    > demonstrations. We turned our backs on hundreds of thousands of potential strong allies when we
    > responded that way. With all the westernized Iranians hunkering down out of sight, the religious
    > right was able to control everything. I don't know if we could have done anything that would
    > effectively elevate our interests, except maybe to send a positive message to our friends there.
    > Or maybe not to have controlled their government the way we did, but Hey! Who knows? It has never
    > been tried.
    >
    > [1] I came to clearly see that our cultures were very dissimilar. Cheating on tests was the rule
    > [2]. One guy would take his test to the front of the class to ostensibly ask the prof a
    > question. He would shift around so that the prof had to turn his back to the classroom in
    > order to talk to him. Suddenly many of the Iranian heads would lean together as they compared
    > papers and answers. People standing in a queue? Not Iranians! They just walk to the front and
    > shoulder in. Have your hand up to ask a question, waiting your turn? No such courtesy will be
    > recognized by the Iranians. They will just shout out their question and interrupt you. But
    > I've been told this is common to many cultures.
    >
    > [2] If you want to flame me over this, take note that I am relating personal experiences, this is
    > a first-hand account.

    People are not the same the world over because of cultural differences. We have had cases here in my
    small town of Ethiopians who have killed themselves or otherwise end up in our courts over domestic
    disputes because once their women get to this country they (the women) come to the realization that
    they no longer have to put up with being beaten and in general being consigned to second class
    status. The men can't take it, go crazy and run afoul of our laws.

    Different cultures not only cause you to behave differently, but much more importantly they cause
    you to think differently. This is not any easy chasm to bridge. Many times it is essentially
    impossible.

    The classic mistake that liberals make is to assume that all cultures are equivalent and that we
    need to take into account these differences and make allowances for it. We conservatives know that
    some cultures are infinitely better than others and that it is the job of one and all to bring the
    inferior culture up to the standard of the superior culture. If and when cultures clash violently,
    it will get taken care of by the superior culture destroying the inferior culture even if it means
    that all the people of the inferior culture will be killed off. However, more often than not, the
    people of the inferior culture will eventually come around if treated humanely.

    To equate Western culture with Islamic culture is insane. It is relativism gone mad. That is why
    science (social science especially) is not capable of ever judging the worth of anything because
    value judgements must always be made in the end. Objective knowledge of social phenomena is limited.
    It is the difference between what is as opposed to what ought to be.

    It was very wise of GeoB to recognize that what he was witnessing in his engineering classroom with
    the Iranian students was a difference in culture and not a difference in personal morality. And to
    also recognize that our way (the Western way) was vastly superior to their way (the Iranian way).

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  17. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Freewheeling" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > GeoB:
    >
    > I've only known a couple of Iranians. They seemed, well, rather "brash." The fellow who built my
    > computer is Iranian. Usually rather bright and well-mannered, but he didn't have any compunctions
    > about calling me a "dummy" if I asked what he thought to be an ill-considered question, even
    > though I was a customer. I thought that was a bit odd. [...]

    Scott, these type people are always without exception not sure of their knowledge and in general not
    sure of themselves either. They are usually having a problem with their own ego. The only cure for
    it is to become an educated man. An educated man will know more about what he does not know than
    what he does know and will have the confidence to freely admit it. And he will never take others to
    task for not knowing something, realizing that ignorance is the natural state of all men. The last
    renaissance man who knew everything about everything died several hundreds of years ago.

    The very best professors I have ever known were those who were not at all backward about
    admitting that they did not know everything. One very nice way to shut up a smart ass student is
    to immediately assign him to research his own question so that you and the entire class can
    learn something. This will cause him to think long and hard before he tries to put you on the
    spot ever again.

    I have gone through my life glorying in my ignorance of most things under the sun. But as a
    librarian I know if I really want to find out about something I can look it up. The essence of
    intelligence and education is not having at your command a lot of facts and figures (hell, computers
    do this far better than any human) but simply the elementary know how to be able to find out
    whatever it is that you want to know. The only truly ignorant people are those who think they
    already know everything and don't ever seem to have a clue about what they don't know. Humility is
    the prerequisite to ever achieving some knowledge and education, however little.

    I remember when I was a kid whenever I asked my father a question about anything, he told me to look
    it up (and usually in an angry tone of voice). That may have had something to do with me becoming a
    librarian. I got accustomed to looking things up at a very young age. It became a life long habit
    and has stood me rather well over the course of my life. I have never bothered to commit anything to
    memory knowing all the time where I could "..look it up". Unfortunately, as I got older, laziness
    kicked in and I no longer like to look things up much anymore. Everything these days is off the top
    of my head and that does get me into a lot of trouble I must admit.

    Mr. Sherman reminds me of myself when I was younger. Like him I always had a splattering of facts
    and evidence to present as part of my argument.

    By the way, where is Mr. Sherman? He has been gone for several weeks now. I hope he is not sick. He
    is probably on vacation in Hawaii or on a Caribbean cruise in the West Indies. He probably knows
    better how to live the good life than you and I put together.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  18. Geob

    Geob Guest

    > I've only known a couple of Iranians. They seemed, well, rather "brash."

    I have also known Iranians that I feel honored to have known. One guy comes to mind, a westernized
    but traditional [1] Iranian named, phonetically, Saar-ee-are. He is a brilliant mechanical engineer.
    He lives here in the USA. I think he was heard to have uttered something not entirely supportive of
    the present government of Iran and now must stay here until they forget.

    This guy, who had NO experience with digital electronics, accepted a work assignment that others
    were having a hard time with. It involved modifying a PC at the chip level. Seems it was something
    about using a PC as a base for some intricate instrumentation. He took a PC home and studied it all
    weekend and confidentally started the project the next week. Astounding to slow little me, whose
    degree is in Digital Systems Electronics. I had to slowly grind through this stuff step by
    agonizing step [2].

    Last I heard, even though he had been out of college only three or four years, he was heading up multi-
    million dollar development projects. Maybe billions, they were HUGE, for multi-national firms.

    [1] Although not really a religious sort, he never took part in the decadent western practice of
    dating. When he reached a point in life when he was established and wanted a wife, he told his
    mother. She came over, networked with others here, and brought him together with one girl after
    another, dinners and such. I think he may have married finally, butI remember the process went
    on and on for quite a while.

    [2] I have always felt that I missed my calling... I feel I would make an ideal beach-comber living
    in a driftwood hut.

    GeoB

    "It is when differences that might otherwise be considered ethnocultural are regarded as innate,
    indelible, and unchangeable that a racist attitude or ideology can be said to exist."
    - George Fredrickson's history of racism
     
  19. On 19 Feb 2004 08:36:42 -0800, [email protected] (GeoB) wrote:

    >One day we will wake up and find that the oil is all gone. That which could have made medicines,
    >etc for thousands of years.. we just burned it up. The fat-cats will say, "So long suckers... we
    >are taking the money and running..

    Uh-huh. Running where? How?

    Taking their Lear jets and burning the alternative fuel to fly into a parallel universe?

    Your Mickey Mouse hat is on backward...
     
  20. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    [email protected] (GeoB) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > > Aside from the fact that this punishes the third of our society too young, old, handicapped or
    > > poor to drive, it makes driving WORSE, as the streets become clogged with those that otherwise
    > > wouldn't be driving. And then the oil runs out - brilliant.
    >
    > Bravo, Robert! Well said! We can't hear the truth too much.
    >
    > One day we will wake up and find that the oil is all gone. That which could have made medicines,
    > etc for thousands of years.. we just burned it up. The fat-cats will say, "So long suckers... we
    > are taking the money and running... you have no alternate transportation system, no energy system,
    > no manufacturing system geared to today's realities! And NO time left to develop one... no capital
    > left to build one..."

    I am thinking the sooner the oil runs out the better. Then we will be forced to come up with a
    technological fix for our energy needs. One thing is for sure, the way we are presently acting is
    the way all men have acted down through history. No society has ever considered themselves with any
    generation that was to follow. It is always a case of the devil take the hindmost. Just be glad that
    we are not the hindmost. Another very wise saying is that it is better to grind than to be ground.
    Again, just be grateful that we can do the grinding and not be the ones that are being ground.

    Here is another nice word to wrap your mind around - dessication. The world is full of areas that
    were formerly fertile and prosperous and are now nothing but deserts due to man's impact. The whole
    Middle East illustrates this to perfection and all of sub-Sahara Africa is rapidly going the same
    way. If it weren't for the oil, the Middle East would by now be the biggest basket case in the
    world. China and India too are a mess. Why? Too many people living for too long in a given area.
    Most third world countries are not underdeveloped. On the contrary, they are greatly overdeveloped
    and have been for thousands of years.

    Most areas of the world represent nothing better than nature in ruins because of the way man has
    over used the land (agriculture and grazing). I am always astounded when I look at foreign
    landscapes on TV and I do not see a single tree growing anywhere let alone forests. I am convinced
    that the whole world is going to end up like Haiti - just a dun colored landscape stripped of all
    natural beauty. The only creatures living in such a landscape will be us humans and our nearest and
    best friends, the rats and cockroaches.

    We here in America have been blessed like no other people on earth, but we are rapidly destroying
    everything too. Someday sooner than we think this country will look like Europe at best and at worst
    maybe like India or China. I am opting for the Brazil model myself, the best example of a New World
    mess that I can think of, although Mexico comes immediately to mind also.

    Aren't you glad that none of us are going to live forever to see the future that is in store for our
    children and our grandchildren. Of course, I was smart enough not to marry and/or have any children,
    so with me it is sayonara and to heck with the world anyway.

    And finally let me say to cap all this off that man is never going to make it to another world and
    that includes the Moon and Mars let alone ever get outside our own solar system. That realization
    should cause us to take better care of our one and only home in the universe, but it won't. Why?
    Because we are naked apes at heart and unless we can evolve ourselves out of our present nature, we
    are as doomed as the dinosaurs were similarly doomed. In the meantime, let us ride our bikes and
    enjoy what ever little remains to be enjoyed.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
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