Bike fit frustration (a rather long post)

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Okmtb, Mar 24, 2003.

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  1. Okmtb

    Okmtb Guest

    I wonder if I could get your opinions about a frustrating situation I am having with my road bike
    and the LBS that I purchased it from. Hopefully some of you will be willing to read this rather long
    message and offer your advice.

    I bought my first road bike about 8 months ago. Although I had been mountain biking for several
    years this was my first road bike purchase. After about 1700 miles and many adjustments of the
    saddle, bars, hood placement, etc, the bike still doesn't feel right. I'm worried that the bike may
    not be the right fit for me. To make matters worse the customer service at the LBS that I bought it
    from is less than desirable.

    When I purchased the bike the LBS owner used the computerized Fit Kit and assured me the bike was
    right for me. He told me that after riding it for a while he would be happy to trade me out for
    saddle, stem, bars etc to ensure everything would be correct. The LBS had been highly recommended to
    me by several people because of the experience they had at fitting people to bikes. Although the fit
    and purchase experience went really well the rest of my dealings with the LBS have not been a good
    experience.

    About a week after buying the bike I went back to the LBS because the saddle was just downright
    painful. The shop owner told me to give it two more weeks and assured me I just needed to get used
    to it. I trusted him but went back two weeks later because the saddle was just too painful. The LBS
    owner told me to pick out another saddle. When I looked at his selection all he had was more of the
    same saddles but in different colors. When I told him I was willing to pay the difference plus
    shipping to order me the saddle I wanted he refused and said that I had to choose from what he had
    in stock. Since color was not the issue but rather design I chose to keep the saddle and ordered my
    preferred saddle myself.

    One of the services the LBS owner promised me when I bought the bike was same day service. He
    explained that if they really got swamped I would at least have my bike back by the next day. To
    this day I have not received my bike in less than three days! On several occasions I have had a 4 to
    5 day wait.

    Within the first month of riding my new bike I kept noticing a very loud clank coming from the
    vicinity of the headset. After the LBS kept my bike for three days I immediately noticed the headset
    was so tight that the bars would not turn freely. Instead of rechecking the bike right then I was
    told to come back later and they would have it ready. A few weeks later the headset was clanking
    again. After about 4 trips back to the LBS the owner told me that the clanking was normal because
    the bike had the new integrated headset design and it was safe to ignore it. I half way trusted him
    but have kept a close eye on the headset and have adjusted it several times since.

    After several months of riding I also started having trouble with the rear hub. By then I was leery
    of taking the bike to the LBS because of always having to wait. I contacted the shop owner and
    reminded him of the same day/ next day service he had promised. He told me to call later in the week
    to see if they were less busy. Later I called and confirmed they would have time to look at the
    wheel/ hub the next day. I took the wheel to them as soon as the shop opened and was told to check
    back with them at 3:00 PM. At 3:00 Pm when I went check on the status I was told that they had
    become busy again and would not be able to look at the wheel until the middle of the next week. They
    offered to loan me a wheel while I waited but when they went to look for it they realized it had
    already been loaned out!

    So that I did not disturb the other customers in the store I asked the owner to speak with me in
    private. I managed to contain my anger but let the shop owner know that I did not appreciate the
    treatment I was receiving. I asked him to explain why I was receiving this kind of treatment. After
    a long conversation with a lot of evasive explaining by the shop owner it became obvious that even
    though I had just bought a $2700.00 bike from him that bike assemblies for new bikes had priority
    over any other repairs. He finally told me to just ride the wheel and when it broke they would
    replace it because it was under warranty! I let him know I didn't appreciate that advice. I
    acknowledged that it was under warranty but asked him if he was going to be willing to drive to pick
    me up if I broke down 50 miles out of town half way into a Century ride. He had no answer.

    The next day I picked up the phone and called the wheel manufacturer. Within 10 minutes I had
    detailed instructions on how to disassemble the hub and do the repair myself. It seems that a part
    was inserted incorrectly at the factory.It was a known problem and easily fixed. 10 minutes later
    the hub was fixed.

    Now to the main issue: In all this time of riding I have never been able to get the right fit on the
    bike. Saturday I decided to take the bike to another LBS. Even though I didn't buy my bike from this
    other shop they went out of their way to be helpful. I explained the fit trouble I was having and
    the guy basically went through most of the fit process with me again. He said the measurements
    confirmed what his initial observation was telling him which was that the bike was at the extreme
    edge of what would be considered the right size for me. He said that he would have never sold me
    that size of bike if I had come to him.

    When I described the headset trouble he immediately knew what I was talking about and said that it
    was a known problem with that make and model of bike. He said he had repaired a few of them and the
    factory had sent him the parts under warranty. When he disassembled the headset he showed me the
    damage that the improperly fitted bearings had done to the cups. He told me the other LBS was
    incorrect to tell me it was nothing to worry about!

    He told me that I might be able to make the bike work with a shorter stem but if that didn't work
    there was no way of getting around the fact that the frame may be too big for me. He said he would
    be happy to order me a shorter stem but recommended that I go back to the dealer I had bought it
    from since he had promised to trade out equipment necessary to make the bike fit properly. He spent
    nearly the whole afternoon with me and my bike, answering my questions, and giving advice. Even
    though I didn't buy my bike from him he made me feel welcome. After all this he charged me for less
    than an hour's labor when we were done!

    Today I contacted the LBS owner where I bought my bike. I explained that I was still trying to get
    the right fit and wondered if he was willing to try some different stems. His immediate answer was
    that I was not sitting on the bike properly. He explained that I wasn't holding my pelvis correctly
    when I rode. I'm not sure how he would know that since he has never ridden with me but I'm sure this
    could be more BS. He also told me he was pretty busy and that I should call him back another day to
    see if he has the time to help me with the bike fit!!!

    Now the bottom line is that I may have a frame that is too large. I think I have pretty good reasons
    to be distrustful of the LBS that sold it to me. If the LBS owner refuses to help me I will go back
    to the LBS who is willing to help. However, if a shorter stem does not fix my fit problem I'm
    worried that I may be screwed. I don't have another $2700.00 for another bike. I don't even have the
    money to buy a different frame. I know if I sell the bike or even the frame I am going to loose
    money. What other options do I have?

    Sorry for the long post. If any of you were in my shoes what would you do?

    --
    OKMTB
     
    Tags:


  2. > Sorry for the long post. If any of you were in my shoes what would you do?

    Your shoes don't sound like anything I'd want to try on! There are a whole lot of issues in your
    post but, overall, it sounds like there's at least a compatibility issue between the shop and
    yourself. The tough part to explain is why others said such wonderful things about the shop, and yet
    your experience runs so contrary.

    The frame sizing issue it a tough one. I'd at least get one more opinion before deciding that the
    frame's actually too large. How short a stem is it going to take to get the bike to fit properly? If
    a 9cm will do the job, I wouldn't worry at all. In some cases, people need to go shorter than that
    to enable them to fit a bit larger frame; the reason for the larger frame is usually to allow a
    taller handlebar height.

    Do keep in mind that measurements are just the start of getting the fit right. We use the FitKit
    ourselves, but still have to look at the rider in the real world to make sure it makes sense.
    Measurements are one thing, but don't take into account a cyclist's flexibility, among other things.

    Finally, even the best shops can sometimes have a customer where everything that could go wrong,
    does. Probably the reason I have less hair now than some years ago.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  3. Per LöWdin

    Per LöWdin Guest

    > Sorry for the long post. If any of you were in my shoes what would you do?

    I would inform as many as possible in this and other fora about some basic facts such as i) the name
    and location of the shop, ii) the make and model of bike, and iii) I would change LBS for good as it
    seems to be an utterly hopeless one.

    We once had a problem with a San Francisco shop, for a moment they seemed to think that because we
    live in Sweden and had brought the bikes we bought from them to Sweden that they would not have to
    fix problems caused by them or even reply to email. Well, we made them understand that via the web
    Sweden is not further than Oakland. We informed that we would evaluate their services on some sites
    that are frequently used by Americans. Within a couple of days we had a missing part and a small
    gift sent by express delivery.

    Per

    http://user.tninet.se/~ipg289h/fu99/MTB.html
     
  4. Okmtb

    Okmtb Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    there's
    > at least a compatibility issue between the shop and yourself. The tough part to explain is why
    > others said such wonderful things about the shop, and yet your experience runs so contrary.

    I've tried to figure that one out for myself and have a few ideas. I've bought mountain bikes from
    other LBS and have always had red carpet type treatment. Even the shops I didn't buy my bikes from
    usually help me with whatever I need the same day.

    Two weeks ago an aquaintance told me that he has purchased three bikes from him. He said he had
    great service from him for several years. However, one day he took some wheels he had bought from an
    online store to him to be trued. He said the guy got really upset and asked him why he didn't buy
    them from him. The customer told him that he gave him a chance but the price he quoted him was three
    times the price. The aquaintance told me that from then on the LBS owner has refused to talk to him.
    When he has gone back to his store he won't even talk to him and has his other employess wait on
    him. So somehow I figure I've probably offended him. Although he wasn't offended when he took my
    money for the bike!

    > I'd at least get one more opinion before deciding that the frame's actually too large.

    That is a good idea. I may do that if a shorter stem doesn't do the trick.

    How
    > short a stem is it going to take to get the bike to fit properly? If a 9cm will do the job, I
    > wouldn't worry at all. In some cases, people need to go shorter than that to enable them to fit a
    > bit larger frame; the reason for the larger frame is usually to allow a taller handlebar height.

    9cm is actually what I am thinking. The TT is 55 cm and my stem is 11
    cm. The other LBS is telling me I should be on a 53 or 54 cm. My hope is that a 9cm stem will do the
    trick. A stem is a lot cheaper than a new frame or whole bike.

    > Finally, even the best shops can sometimes have a customer where everything that could go wrong,
    > does. Probably the reason I have less hair now than some years ago.

    lol

    --
    OKMTB
     
  5. OKMTB-<< About a week after buying the bike I went back to the LBS because the saddle was just
    downright painful. The shop owner told me to give it two more weeks and assured me I just needed to
    get used to it. I trusted him but went back two weeks later because the saddle was just too painful.

    << When I told him I was willing to pay the difference plus shipping to order me the saddle I wanted
    he refused and said that I had to choose from what he had in stock.

    Talking to the right guy-try to get him to remember that a disgruntled customer talks to others.

    Get a second opinion from another, less computer oriented fit person, perhaps one that is
    Serotta trained.

    < One of the services the LBS owner promised me when I bought the bike was same day service. He
    explained that if they really got swamped I would at least have my bike back by the next day. To
    this day I have not received my bike in less than three days!

    Any biike shop owner that promises no-appointment, same day service is asking his wrenches to
    rush thru a job..remind him that he isn't following his 'agreement' and a 'money back'
    conversation may ensue-

    << After about 4 trips back to the LBS the owner told me that the clanking was normal because the
    bike had the new integrated headset design and it was safe to ignore it.

    This is horseshite-headsets don't 'clank'- <

    < the shop owner it became obvious that even though I had just bought a $2700.00 bike from him that
    bike assemblies for new bikes had priority over any other repairs.

    errrr, mistake two, taking care of the future customer at the expense of the present one...

    << He said that he would have never sold me that size of bike if I had come to him.

    get yer money back.

    Call the manufacturer also-

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  6. OKMTB <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > 9cm is actually what I am thinking. The TT is 55 cm and my stem is 11
    > cm. The other LBS is telling me I should be on a 53 or 54 cm. My hope is that a 9cm stem will do
    > the trick. A stem is a lot cheaper than a new frame or whole bike.

    I did exactly this a few months ago (had a 55 with an 11cm stem, should have had a 53, changed the
    stem to a 9cm). The bike fits. Handling is fine.

    Cheers,

    Mark
     
  7. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "OKMTB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]... -snip story
    of incivility -
    > Two weeks ago an aquaintance told me that he has purchased three bikes from him. He said he had
    > great service from him for several years. However, one day he took some wheels he had bought from
    > an online store to him to be trued. He said the guy got really upset and asked him why he didn't
    > buy them from him. The customer told him that he gave him a chance but the price he quoted him was
    > three times the price. The aquaintance told me that from then on the LBS owner has refused to talk
    > to him. When he has gone back to his store he won't even talk to him and has his other employess
    > wait on him. So somehow I figure I've probably offended him. Although he wasn't offended when he
    > took my money for the bike!

    People also get that way when they see an ex walking down the street with a new squeeze. Even she
    hated every minute of it and walked out, something very base in us triggers a lot of emotion
    sometimes.

    That being said, a part of being professional is to be able to smile while one's nose is being
    rubbed in it. The dealer probably pays more than you did for those wheels and being reminded of that
    isn't pleasant. But life isn't pleasant and he should be able to deal with it better.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  8. Okmtb

    Okmtb Guest

    [email protected] (Mark Runacres) wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > I did exactly this a few months ago (had a 55 with an 11cm stem, should have had a 53, changed the
    > stem to a 9cm). The bike fits. Handling is fine.

    That's encouraging Mark! I'm crossing my fingers that it works for me as well!

    --
    OKMTB
     
  9. > get yer money back.
    >
    > Call the manufacturer also-

    Peter: I don't think we're there yet. As has been mentioned, he can shorten the present stem by 2cm
    with a 9cm stem; I'm not yet convinced the fit is way out there. Don't think any of us can be
    without seeing him on his bike.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > OKMTB-<< About a week after buying the bike I went back to the LBS because
    the
    > saddle was just downright painful. The shop owner told me to give it two more weeks and assured me
    > I just needed to get used to it. I trusted him but went back two weeks later because the saddle
    > was just too painful.
    >
    > << When I told him I was willing to pay the difference plus shipping to order me the saddle I
    > wanted he refused and said that I had to choose from what he had in stock.
    >
    > Talking to the right guy-try to get him to remember that a disgruntled
    customer
    > talks to others.
    >
    > Get a second opinion from another, less computer oriented fit person,
    perhaps
    > one that is Serotta trained.
    >
    > < One of the services the LBS owner promised me when I bought the bike was same day service. He
    > explained that if they really got swamped I would at least have my bike back by the next day. To
    > this day I have not received my bike in less than three days!
    >
    > Any biike shop owner that promises no-appointment, same day service is
    asking
    > his wrenches to rush thru a job..remind him that he isn't following his 'agreement' and a 'money
    > back' conversation may ensue-
    >
    >
    > << After about 4 trips back to the LBS the owner told me that the clanking was normal because the
    > bike had the new integrated headset design and it was safe to ignore it.
    >
    > This is horseshite-headsets don't 'clank'- <
    >
    > < the shop owner it became obvious that even though I had just bought a $2700.00 bike from him
    > that bike assemblies for new bikes had priority over any other repairs.
    >
    > errrr, mistake two, taking care of the future customer at the expense of
    the
    > present one...
    >
    >
    > << He said that he would have never sold me that size of bike if I had come to him.
    >
    > get yer money back.
    >
    > Call the manufacturer also-
    >
    > Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  10. Okmtb

    Okmtb Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:p[email protected]:

    >
    > Peter: I don't think we're there yet. As has been mentioned, he can shorten the present stem by
    > 2cm with a 9cm stem; I'm not yet convinced the fit is way out there. Don't think any of us can be
    > without seeing him on his bike.
    >

    I'm going to try to get away from work today and go to the LBS where I bought the bike and see if he
    will work with me on trying a different stem. Just so that I'm at least a little more informed is
    there any validity to his statement when he told me I was holding my pelvis wrong? I've done a few
    quick searches on Google for bike posture etc. and have not found anything mentioned about this.

    Although I'm certainly not an expert I honestly don't think that I'm doing anything wrong with my
    pelvis on the bike. As I mentioned before I had been mountian biking for a while and since buying
    the road bike have been riding in all the club rides with my local club. With the exception of
    feeling too streched out when my hands are on the hoods nobody has ever told me that I had bad bike
    posture. I have even looked at pictures that my wife has shot while I'm on the bike. All I noticed
    was that I was a tad bit too streached out. So was he giving me a line of BS when he told me this???

    --
    OKMTB
     
  11. In article <[email protected]>, OKMTB <[email protected]> wrote:
    >"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
    >news:p[email protected]:
    >
    >>
    >> Peter: I don't think we're there yet. As has been mentioned, he can shorten the present stem by
    >> 2cm with a 9cm stem; I'm not yet convinced the fit is way out there. Don't think any of us can be
    >> without seeing him on his bike.
    >>
    >
    >I'm going to try to get away from work today and go to the LBS where I bought the bike and see
    >if he will work with me on trying a different stem. Just so that I'm at least a little more
    >informed is there any validity to his statement when he told me I was holding my pelvis wrong?
    >I've done a few quick searches on Google for bike posture etc. and have not found anything
    >mentioned about this.

    Rotating the pelvis forward will allow you to reach farther, and help prevent you from curling your
    lower back to reach the bars. Some people just don't like being rotated forward like that because it
    can put more pressure on the soft parts. I don't usually think of this as an issue of right vs.
    wrong way - rotating back will probably rob you of power on flat terrain, but you really have to be
    the one that decides that the comfort is acceptable and fitting the bike to the rider means that the
    dealer needs to listen to what the rider wants and not blindly mold them into the "ideal" position.

    It sounds like the shop owner you dealt with has a problem with his retail/people skills. It is
    never surprising to find a badly managed retail bike shop - the scheduling difficulties and
    confusion in the back room are a sign that they are not organized and this is pretty normal. Most
    are very badly run businesses and tend to make a lot of customer-service errors.

    I would certainly try to get him to provide a 9cm stem, but if he refused I would abandon
    immediately and just go buy a stem, and certainly would not return to such a shop for even an inner
    tube. If the bike really can't be fitted properly then you may need to have words with him but
    otherwise I would just move on to the shop that wants you to be a customer. I would not be afraid to
    shell out a little $$ for real fitting service - it would be money well spent.

    --Paul
     
  12. Pat Clancy

    Pat Clancy Guest

    This isn't intended as a pot shot - you've been going through enough pain. But maybe others can
    benefit from your experience. Even with a professional fitting from a shop that came recommended, it
    was a mistake to spend so much for a first road bike. A much better idea would have been to look for
    a good deal in a used bike or spend maybe $800 max for a new bike. This would have gotten you
    something adequate to ride for a year or two and learn the in's and out's of your size requirements
    and equipment preferences. I know that doesn't help you much now. Good luck.

    Pat

    OKMTB <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I wonder if I could get your opinions about a frustrating situation I am having with my road bike
    > and the LBS that I purchased it from. Hopefully some of you will be willing to read this rather
    > long message and offer your advice.
    >
    > I bought my first road bike about 8 months ago. Although I had been mountain biking for several
    > years this was my first road bike purchase.
     
  13. Ajames54™

    Ajames54™ Guest

    On 25 Mar 2003 14:00:10 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

    >
    >get yer money back.

    The store obviously does not really care about his opinion so the get yer money back thing may not
    be an option... (too much time ... too many adjustments)

    >
    >Call the manufacturer also-

    I would suggest that you write rather than call ... (being very careful about what you say) a letter
    to the store, the manufacturer and if possible the local sales rep.. stating the issues and
    suggesting that if they are not resolved then you regret that the next letter goes to the Better
    Business Bureau...
     
  14. re. the original post: We never want to burn bridges, but... Most manufacturers care very much
    about who is selling their bikes, and thus a letter to them, and cc'd to the LBS should probably
    get fast action.

    New question re. bike fitting: About 2 months ago, yes that long, Elvis and his 2 Harry friends
    became numb after a ride, and they have been numb ever since. I have tried two different saddles,
    and a a very low-tech bike fit, but no help. As of Sunday I am off my bike, and if the problem
    doesn't get better, to the doctors I go.

    Anyway, when I get back on the bike I want to make sure it fits me like a glove. The recent issue of
    Velo News Buyers Guide had a great article on bike fit. They listed several companies/techniques,
    e.g. Fit Kit, Serotta, Bikefitting.com and others. How do I choose one? Are they all as good as the
    next? What are others experiences about which one they used?

    If any experiences about the numb thing, I would love to hear them as well.

    Thanks, Michael
     
  15. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "OKMTB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:p[email protected]:
    >
    > >
    > > Peter: I don't think we're there yet. As has been mentioned, he can shorten the present stem by
    > > 2cm with a 9cm stem; I'm not yet convinced the fit is way out there. Don't think any of us can
    > > be without seeing him on his bike.
    > >
    >
    > I'm going to try to get away from work today and go to the LBS where I bought the bike and see if
    > he will work with me on trying a different
    stem.
    > Just so that I'm at least a little more informed is there any validity to his statement when he
    > told me I was holding my pelvis wrong? I've done a few quick searches on Google for bike posture
    > etc. and have not found anything mentioned about this.
    >
    > Although I'm certainly not an expert I honestly don't think that I'm doing anything wrong with my
    > pelvis on the bike. As I mentioned before I had been mountian biking for a while and since buying
    > the road bike have been riding in all the club rides with my local club. With the exception of
    > feeling too streched out when my hands are on the hoods nobody has ever told me that I had bad
    > bike posture. I have even looked at pictures that
    my
    > wife has shot while I'm on the bike. All I noticed was that I was a tad
    bit
    > too streached out. So was he giving me a line of BS when he told me
    this???
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > OKMTB

    Define too stretched out. I know my position from my mtn bike to my road bike is different. The mtn
    bike is a little shorter, the road bikes a little longer.

    I'm not saying that you aren't too stretched out, just that the two bikes are different, and have
    different riding positions. Since I haven't seen you riding this new bike, I can't tell one way or
    another from a description. When you're out on your next group ride, ask some of the more
    experienced riders what they think of your position.

    Could be you are too far behind the BB? Could be you are in fact too stretched out. We won't
    know here.

    Mike
     
  16. Jon Isaacs

    Jon Isaacs Guest

    >This isn't intended as a pot shot - you've been going through enough pain. But maybe others can
    >benefit from your experience. Even with a professional fitting from a shop that came recommended,
    >it was a mistake to spend so much for a first road bike. A much better idea would have been to look
    >for a good deal in a used bike or spend maybe $800 max for a new bike. This would have gotten you
    >something adequate to ride for a year or two and learn the in's and out's of your size requirements
    >and equipment preferences. I know that doesn't help you much now. Good luck.
    >
    >Pat
    >

    A good bit of wisdom in my book. I think that starting with a nice used bike is a good way to go,
    discover what works and what doesn't, what you like, don't like. Then when you know what you want,
    maybe 2 or 3 bikes later, then spend the real money on a bike that is right for you.

    Jon Isaacs
     
  17. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "Jon Isaacs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > >This isn't intended as a pot shot - you've been going
    through enough
    > >pain. But maybe others can benefit from your experience.
    Even with a
    > >professional fitting from a shop that came recommended,
    it was a
    > >mistake to spend so much for a first road bike. A much
    better idea
    > >would have been to look for a good deal in a used bike or
    spend maybe
    > >$800 max for a new bike. This would have gotten you
    something
    > >adequate to ride for a year or two and learn the in's and
    out's of
    > >your size requirements and equipment preferences. I know
    that doesn't
    > >help you much now. Good luck.
    > >
    > >Pat
    > >
    >
    > A good bit of wisdom in my book. I think that starting
    with a nice used bike
    > is a good way to go, discover what works and what doesn't,
    what you like, don't
    > like. Then when you know what you want, maybe 2 or 3
    bikes later, then spend
    > the real money on a bike that is right for you.

    I agree. Most people spend too much on the bike itself, when they really need to save some for
    clothes and accessories, and also for experimenting with parts to get the fit dialed in. This
    takes time to figure out, especially for a new rider. Not only have you not learned what a
    perfect fit feels like, that fit will probably change as you develop your riding muscles.
    Assuming you can afford at least some of it, I think budgeting half for the bike and half for the
    rest is a good plan.

    I also think moving on from shop 1 to shop 2 is a good idea. Obviously, the first guy is a bottom
    feeder, and the second much more helpful. If I just sold you a $2700 bike I'd be kissing your butt
    to make sure you were happy. I'd also be comfortable/confident in being able to do that because I'd
    just made a big profit, and so could afford to spend the time. I'd also want to make sure someone
    who's enthusiastic enough to have just spent so much on a bike will return to me for his inevitable
    future needs on clothing and accessories, on which the profit margins are usually higher.

    Anyway, you'll get it figured out. Once the pain wears off you'll really enjoy your new bike.

    Matt O.
     
  18. Okmtb

    Okmtb Guest

    "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote in news:j88ga.6595$FN.3653409 @news2.news.adelphia.net:

    > I agree. Most people spend too much on the bike itself, when they really need to save some for
    > clothes and accessories, and also for experimenting with parts to get the fit dialed in. This
    > takes time to figure out, especially for a new rider. Not only have you not learned what a
    > perfect fit feels like, that fit will probably change as you develop your riding muscles.
    > Assuming you can afford at least some of it, I think budgeting half for the bike and half for the
    > rest is a good plan.
    >
    > I also think moving on from shop 1 to shop 2 is a good idea. Obviously, the first guy is a
    > bottom feeder, and the second much more helpful. If I just sold you a $2700 bike I'd be kissing
    > your butt to make sure you were happy. I'd also be comfortable/confident in being able to do
    > that because I'd just made a big profit, and so could afford to spend the time. I'd also want to
    > make sure someone who's enthusiastic enough to have just spent so much on a bike will return to
    > me for his inevitable future needs on clothing and accessories, on which the profit margins are
    > usually higher.
    >
    > Anyway, you'll get it figured out. Once the pain wears off you'll really enjoy your new bike.
    >
    > Matt O.
    >
    >
    >

    I agree with you now more than before that I should have purchased a used one first. However, at the
    time there were very few available locally that I though would have fit me. Nobody wanted to sell
    their unused bikes. The ones I did find were 10 to 15 years old and their owners wanted a fortune
    for them. I think their reasoning was mostly sentimental! ;) I am learning that in the area I live
    in most people have the attitude that their marriages come and go but their bikes are forever!!!

    Now for an update:

    I went to the LBS where I bought my bike today. The shop owner and I put my bike on the trainer to
    take a look at the setup and how the bike fit me. After a long discussion and lots of measurements
    with his tape measure he assured me that the bike was the correct size for me. He said that I had my
    saddle and cleats setup in a real good position said that I shouldn't try to change them. He said
    that my positioning on the bike was what he would consider neutral meaning that we could make
    adjustments for a more aggressive (even more stretched out) or more upright fit. He even said that
    my posture looked very good on the bike. I told him again that I felt stretched out when my hands
    were in the hoods and that I found my hands riding between the hoods and the back of the bar nearly
    all of the time.

    It took nearly an hour for me to finally convince him that even though everything looked good to him
    that I still didn't feel right. I told him that I wanted to try a 9cm stem and he finally agreed to
    let me try some different stems. When I had called him earlier on the phone he told me that he had
    several sizes and was sure he had one that was 9 cm. When it came down to it all he could find was a
    10 cm with a 10 degree rise.

    After taking one 1cm spacer off because the new stem had a taller clamp we effectively raised the
    bar by 2 cm and moved it back by 1 cm. I could feel an immediate difference. After being so
    reluctant to help me try a different stem he admitted that my posture didn't look like I was
    straining for my hands to be in the hoods.

    I took the bike out of the shop and road around the parking lot for about 15 minutes. As I rode past
    several shops I could see my reflection in the windows. The first thing I noticed was that while my
    hands were in the hoods my elbows had a slight bend to them and I felt more comfortable. With the
    original stem I could not ride with my hands in the hoods without my arms being rigid or scooting
    forward in the saddle. Now I know I'm on the right track.

    While I've now made some progress with the bike I'm still not very happy with the LBS owner. While
    he had the stem off I showed him the irregular wear on the headset cups. He told me that it was
    nothing to worry about. I also showed him a crease in the carbon steering tube that has been caused
    by the original stem because the gap in the clamp is at an angle. He told me that that it was normal
    for the carbon tube to become creased like that! I don't believe him.

    When I told him I had already called the manufacturer about the situation to get their opinion he
    got upset. I could tell he wanted to say something derogatory toward me but he kept it in. He again
    assured me that these issues were all normal and nothing to worry about. I finally stated that I was
    talking to the manufacturer and I was showing him the problems so that if there was a failure later
    he would be aware of the damage and could not say that I had abused my bike.

    When we were finished he agreed to let me take the new stem for a few days to try it out. I told him
    I wanted to take the original with me for comparison but he told me that he would have to keep it
    for collateral but if I wanted to take them both I would have to pay for the new one. I wanted to
    ask him what he offered me for collateral on my bike when it was in his shop for a whole week but I
    decided I didn't want to really start an argument with him. He also quoted me $80.00 for the new
    stem. So much for his original promise of trading parts to make the bike fit properly! When I got
    home I immediately looked up the make and model online and found it on sale for $19.00

    I was so anxious to see if the new stem made a difference I did a short 20 mile ride (with a 26 Mph
    head wind). The good news is that my arms and hands felt more relaxed and I didn't feel so stretched
    out!!! On the down side my neck between my shoulder blades started to feel some tension. I made a
    minor adjustment to my saddle to try to compensate but it was still a little noticeable by the end
    of the ride. Is it natural for this to occur while my body is adjusting to the setup changes on my
    bike or have I just created another problem?

    Now my plan is to try the stem for several rides to see how it goes. If it works out to be the right
    fit I will probably go back to the dealer to ask for my original stem back. I think I will then
    purchase the right one somewhere else. I've decided to not burn any bridges with him because I may
    need him for warranty purposes if something does actually fail. But in the mean time I'm simply not
    going to give him any more business. As many of you suggested I'll go to a shop that wants my
    business and emphasize their good service and recommend them to my friends.

    Someone here suggested that I didn't have a proper 'fit' with the LBS. I agree. I believe it all
    comes down to that. Had I not been so distrustful and leery of taking my bike back to this LBS I
    would have probably found the right stem and had satisfactory answers to my questions months ago.
    Maybe someone needs to create a 'Fit Kit' for bike shops!!!

    --
    OKMTB
     
  19. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > > OKMTB-<< About a week after buying the bike I went back to the LBS
    because
    > the
    > > saddle was just downright painful. The shop owner told me to give it two more weeks and assured
    > > me I just needed to get used to it. I trusted him but went back two weeks later because the
    > > saddle was just too painful.
    > >
    > > << When I told him I was willing to pay the difference plus shipping to order me the saddle I
    > > wanted he refused and said that I had to choose from what he had in stock.

    "pc"> > Talking to the right guy-try to get him to remember that a disgruntled
    > customer
    > > talks to others.
    > >
    > > Get a second opinion from another, less computer oriented fit person,
    > perhaps
    > > one that is Serotta trained.

    "OKMTB"> > < One of the services the LBS owner promised me when I bought the bike was
    > > same day service. He explained that if they really got swamped I would at least have my bike
    > > back by the next day. To this day I have not received my bike in less than three days!

    "pc"> > Any biike shop owner that promises no-appointment, same day service is
    > asking
    > > his wrenches to rush thru a job..remind him that he isn't following his 'agreement' and a 'money
    > > back' conversation may ensue-

    "OKMTB"> > << After about 4 trips back to
    > > the LBS the owner told me that the clanking was normal because the bike had the new integrated
    > > headset design and it was safe to ignore it.

    "pc"> > This is horseshite-headsets don't 'clank'-

    "OKMTB""pc"> > < the shop owner it became obvious that even though I had just bought a
    > > $2700.00 bike from him that bike assemblies for new bikes had priority over any other repairs.

    "pc"> > errrr, mistake two, taking care of the future customer at the expense of
    > the
    > > present one...

    "OKMTB"> > << He said that he
    > > would have never sold me that size of bike if I had come to him.

    "pc"> > get yer money back.
    > >
    > > Call the manufacturer also-

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]...
    > Peter: I don't think we're there yet. As has been mentioned, he can shorten the present stem by
    > 2cm with a 9cm stem; I'm not yet convinced the fit is way out there. Don't think any of us can be
    > without seeing him on his bike.

    Mike, I think you're right about that - the fit may or may not be acceptable, that is as yet
    an unknown.

    But I was more concerned with the attitude, the repeated slights and general incivility. This isn't
    an official Soviet retail outlet, he has choices and this shop hasn't made much effort to keep his
    business. We've all had bad days and we've all ( translation="me") have said things we wished we
    hadn't. In my opinion the OP might try once more for satisfaction in a calm conversation with the
    owner/manager but will most likley be better served by shopping elsewhere.

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  20. Okmtb

    Okmtb Guest

    [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    >
    > Perhaps but the owner seems to be reluctant to help this guy, even considering the $2700
    > investment-
    >
    > Also seems like their fit 'skill' is questionable.
    >

    I know that you can't do a real fit when you can't see the person but I wonder if you would mind
    looking at the info I obtained from the printout the shop owner gave me when I got my fitting? Does
    this look like he knows what he is doing?

    Height: 5 foot 8 inches Over 40 Male Foot length: 26.2 cm Inseam: 83.5 cm Thigh Length: 39.2 cm
    Torso Length: 59.0 cm Arm Length: 61.0 cm Shoulder Width: 43.5 cm Hand Size: Large

    Saddle to Pedal Starting Distance: 89.7 cm Handlebars: 40-42 cm Drop: 15 cm or greater

    The printout has a diagram of the frame indicating it needs to be 55. cm with a stem of length
    of 105 mm.

    The shop owner has hand written the following information on the printout: The ideal TT should be
    between 53.5 and 57.5 cm The stem length should be between 80mm and 130mm

    Thanks

    --
    OKMTB
     
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