Bike fit frustration (a rather long post)



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"OKMTB" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> The shop owner has hand written the following information on the printout: The stem length should
> be between 80mm and 130mm

This is a big range -- a range so big it may be designed to cover other problems.

JT

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It's probably the size range he could get the stem in. : )

I've been following this thread for a bit. If I was the original poster I'd request in a rather
forceful way to receive my money back, noting the aforementioned bad publicity that one unhappy
customer can generate and documenting everything that has been done to get the bike fit right & the
problems associated with that task thus far. I would also go through the manufacturer for
assistance, noting to them the same documentation. Then, whether I receive the refund or not, I
would never set foot in the shop again. My impressions are that the shop owner can't be trusted to
tell the truth or maybe he doesn't know what the truth is - which is almost worse in my eyes. Yes
these are my impressions that's true, and they may be wrong. But with an impression like that I
would definitely take my business elsewhere.

The voice of experience, Matt

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

>"OKMTB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>
>
>>The shop owner has hand written the following information on the printout: The stem length should
>>be between 80mm and 130mm
>>
>>
>
>This is a big range -- a range so big it may be designed to cover other problems.
>
>JT
>
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>NB: reply-to address is munged
>
>Visit http://www.jt10000.com
>*******************************************
>
>
>
>
>
>

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http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body>
It's probably the size range he could get the stem in. : )<br> <br> I've been following this
thread for a bit. If I was the original poster I'd request in a rather forceful way to receive
my money back, noting the aforementioned bad publicity that one unhappy customer can generate and
documenting everything that has been done to get the bike fit right & the problems associated
with that task thus far. I would also go through the manufacturer for assistance, noting to
them the same documentation. Then, whether I receive the refund or not, I would never set foot
in the shop again. My impressions are that the shop owner can't be trusted to tell the truth
or maybe he doesn't know what the truth is - which is almost worse in my eyes. Yes these are
my impressions that's true, and they may be wrong. But with an impression like that I would
definitely take my business elsewhere.<br> <br> The voice of experience,<br> Matt<br> <br> John
Forrest Tomlinson wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]"> <pre wrap="">"OKMTB" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote
in message

</pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">The shop owner has hand written the following
information on the printout: The stem length should be between 80mm and 130mm </pre>
</blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> This is a big range -- a range so big it may be designed to
cover other problems.

JT

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</pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>

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Matt Locker <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> It's probably the size range he could get the stem in. : )
>
> I've been following this thread for a bit. If I was the original poster I'd request in a rather
> forceful way to receive my money back, noting the aforementioned bad publicity that one unhappy
> customer can generate and documenting everything that has been done to get the bike fit right &
> the problems associated with that task thus far. I would also go through the manufacturer for
> assistance, noting to them the same documentation. Then, whether I receive the refund or not, I
> would never set foot in the shop again. My impressions are that the shop owner can't be trusted to
> tell the truth or maybe he doesn't know what the truth is - which is almost worse in my eyes. Yes
> these are my impressions that's true, and they may be wrong. But with an impression like that I
> would definitely take my business elsewhere.

Well the guy from Litespeed called me back this afternoon. He confirmed there was a problem with the
make and model concerning the integrated headset. He said they definatly wanted to fix it for me
because it could eventually lead to frame damage. He told me it that I could either ship the bike
back to them or they would ship the parts to the dealer so he could fix it for me.

He explained the only drawback to shipping my bike back to them was that it would take up to 4 weeks
for me to get it back. The reason being that they would also re-check the rest of the frame and also
make sure that all of the components were OK. They would also strip off the decals and apply new
ones. Since I really don't want to be without my bike for 4 weeks I chose to have it repaired by a
Litespeed dealer.

I took that opportunity to discuss the actions of the dealer with him. I expressed that I now
distrusted the dealer because of all the run around I had recieved over the headset and other
issues. I asked him to tell me the names of other authorized dealers in the area. He found two
others in my state but they were located about 2 hours away. I told him I would be willing to drive
that distance if it would mean getting beter service in this situation.

He encouraged me to contact them and talk to them to see which one I wanted to do the work and he
would ship the parts to the one I chose. After I finished talking to him I did some research and
found out that another local dealer had just become an authorized Litespeed dealer. I discussed the
warranty issue with the shop manager and he told me he would be happy to do the warranty work but
would charge me labor because I didn't buy the bike from him. I told him that was acceptable.

Before I could call Litespeed back with the information I got sidetracked with job related
distractions. About an hour later the Litespeed rep called me back and told me he had called the LBS
where I purchased the bike. He told the LBS owner that the integrated headset problem was a very
important issue and if he wanted to keep his customer happy he better fix it for me! He told him
that I had asked him to locate another dealer for him because I was unhappy with his service. He
told me that the LBS owner told him that he didn't know there was a problem but would make sure I
was taken care of.

The rep also told the shop owner to take another look at the carbon steerer tube and make sure it
was OK. He said that if it was damaged in a way that would cause potential failure that they would
replace it for
me.

The Litespeed rep encouraged me to give the dealer one last chance to see if things improved after
his pep talk. He also told me that when I went to him if I saw any further indication that I wasn't
going to be treated right to call him and he would have the parts shipped to the other LBS for them
to fix it.

So I will soon see what happens!

--
OKMTB
 
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Do you trust that the LBS will tell the truth in the future, and do you trust their judgment &
capabilities any more today than yesterday? If not, go elsewhere. From what I've read of this
discussion he can't be trusted any farther than you can throw the proverbial battleship.

Consider that these are warranty issues. You don't need to drive 2 hours for routine stuff - which
is most of what bike repairs are. You would only need to go there again if there is some new or
repeat issues down the road. Don't get me wrong - don't be shy about stopping in if you are in the
area. But you've already found another local dealer who has won your respect. That's the person I'd
deal with for most of my purchases & service, saving the long road trip for when you feel like it or
when you have issues that he would be required to solve.

MOO, Matt

OKMTB wrote:

>Matt Locker <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>
>
>>It's probably the size range he could get the stem in. : )
>>
>>I've been following this thread for a bit. If I was the original poster I'd request in a rather
>>forceful way to receive my money back, noting the aforementioned bad publicity that one unhappy
>>customer can generate and documenting everything that has been done to get the bike fit right &
>>the problems associated with that task thus far. I would also go through the manufacturer for
>>assistance, noting to them the same documentation. Then, whether I receive the refund or not, I
>>would never set foot in the shop again. My impressions are that the shop owner can't be trusted to
>>tell the truth or maybe he doesn't know what the truth is - which is almost worse in my eyes. Yes
>>these are my impressions that's true, and they may be wrong. But with an impression like that I
>>would definitely take my business elsewhere.
>>
>>
>
>
>Well the guy from Litespeed called me back this afternoon. He confirmed there was a problem with
>the make and model concerning the integrated headset. He said they definatly wanted to fix it for
>me because it could eventually lead to frame damage. He told me it that I could either ship the
>bike back to them or they would ship the parts to the dealer so he could fix it for me.
>
>He explained the only drawback to shipping my bike back to them was that it would take up to 4
>weeks for me to get it back. The reason being that they would also re-check the rest of the frame
>and also make sure that all of the components were OK. They would also strip off the decals and
>apply new ones. Since I really don't want to be without my bike for 4 weeks I chose to have it
>repaired by a Litespeed dealer.
>
>I took that opportunity to discuss the actions of the dealer with him. I expressed that I now
>distrusted the dealer because of all the run around I had recieved over the headset and other
>issues. I asked him to tell me the names of other authorized dealers in the area. He found two
>others in my state but they were located about 2 hours away. I told him I would be willing to drive
>that distance if it would mean getting beter service in this situation.
>
>He encouraged me to contact them and talk to them to see which one I wanted to do the work and he
>would ship the parts to the one I chose. After I finished talking to him I did some research and
>found out that another local dealer had just become an authorized Litespeed dealer. I discussed the
>warranty issue with the shop manager and he told me he would be happy to do the warranty work but
>would charge me labor because I didn't buy the bike from him. I told him that was acceptable.
>
>Before I could call Litespeed back with the information I got sidetracked with job related
>distractions. About an hour later the Litespeed rep called me back and told me he had called the
>LBS where I purchased the bike. He told the LBS owner that the integrated headset problem was a
>very important issue and if he wanted to keep his customer happy he better fix it for me! He told
>him that I had asked him to locate another dealer for him because I was unhappy with his service.
>He told me that the LBS owner told him that he didn't know there was a problem but would make sure
>I was taken care of.
>
>The rep also told the shop owner to take another look at the carbon steerer tube and make sure it
>was OK. He said that if it was damaged in a way that would cause potential failure that they would
>replace it for
>me.
>
>The Litespeed rep encouraged me to give the dealer one last chance to see if things improved after
>his pep talk. He also told me that when I went to him if I saw any further indication that I wasn't
>going to be treated right to call him and he would have the parts shipped to the other LBS for them
>to fix it.
>
>So I will soon see what happens!
>
>
>
>
>

--------------050706010305060606090500 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta
http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head> <body> Do
you trust that the LBS will tell the truth in the future, and do you trust their judgment &
capabilities any more today than yesterday? If not, go elsewhere. From what I've read of
this discussion he can't be trusted any farther than you can throw the proverbial battleship.<br>
<br> Consider that these are warranty issues. You don't need to drive 2 hours for routine
stuff - which is most of what bike repairs are. You would only need to go there again if there
is some new or repeat issues down the road. Don't get me wrong - don't be shy about stopping
in if you are in the area. But you've already found another local dealer who has won your
respect. That's the person I'd deal with for most of my purchases & service, saving the
long road trip for when you feel like it or when you have issues that he would be required to
solve.<br> <br> MOO,<br> Matt<br> <br> OKMTB wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]"> <pre wrap="">Matt Locker <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote
in <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="news:[email protected]:">news:[email protected]:</a>

</pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">It's probably the size range he could get the
stem in. : )

I've been following this thread for a bit. If I was the original poster I'd request in a rather
forceful way to receive my money back, noting the aforementioned bad publicity that one unhappy
customer can generate and documenting everything that has been done to get the bike fit right &
the problems associated with that task thus far. I would also go through the manufacturer for
assistance, noting to them the same documentation. Then, whether I receive the refund or not, I
would never set foot in the shop again. My impressions are that the shop owner can't be trusted to
tell the truth or maybe he doesn't know what the truth is - which is almost worse in my eyes. Yes
these are my impressions that's true, and they may be wrong. But with an impression like that I
would definitely take my business elsewhere. </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!---->

Well the guy from Litespeed called me back this afternoon. He confirmed there was a problem with the
make and model concerning the integrated headset. He said they definatly wanted to fix it for me
because it could eventually lead to frame damage. He told me it that I could either ship the bike
back to them or they would ship the parts to the dealer so he could fix it for me.

He explained the only drawback to shipping my bike back to them was that it would take up to 4 weeks
for me to get it back. The reason being that they would also re-check the rest of the frame and also
make sure that all of the components were OK. They would also strip off the decals and apply new
ones. Since I really don't want to be without my bike for 4 weeks I chose to have it repaired by a
Litespeed dealer.

I took that opportunity to discuss the actions of the dealer with him. I expressed that I now
distrusted the dealer because of all the run around I had recieved over the headset and other
issues. I asked him to tell me the names of other authorized dealers in the area. He found two
others in my state but they were located about 2 hours away. I told him I would be willing to drive
that distance if it would mean getting beter service in this situation.

He encouraged me to contact them and talk to them to see which one I wanted to do the work and he
would ship the parts to the one I chose. After I finished talking to him I did some research and
found out that another local dealer had just become an authorized Litespeed dealer. I discussed the
warranty issue with the shop manager and he told me he would be happy to do the warranty work but
would charge me labor because I didn't buy the bike from him. I told him that was acceptable.

Before I could call Litespeed back with the information I got sidetracked with job related
distractions. About an hour later the Litespeed rep called me back and told me he had called the LBS
where I purchased the bike. He told the LBS owner that the integrated headset problem was a very
important issue and if he wanted to keep his customer happy he better fix it for me! He told him
that I had asked him to locate another dealer for him because I was unhappy with his service. He
told me that the LBS owner told him that he didn't know there was a problem but would make sure I
was taken care of.

The rep also told the shop owner to take another look at the carbon steerer tube and make sure it
was OK. He said that if it was damaged in a way that would cause potential failure that they would
replace it for
me.

The Litespeed rep encouraged me to give the dealer one last chance to see if things improved after
his pep talk. He also told me that when I went to him if I saw any further indication that I wasn't
going to be treated right to call him and he would have the parts shipped to the other LBS for them
to fix it.

So I will soon see what happens!

</pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>

--------------050706010305060606090500--
 
On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 21:39:27 GMT, OKMTB <[email protected]> wrote:

>Matt Locker <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
SNIP
>
>
>Well the guy from Litespeed called me back this afternoon.

SNIP

>
>So I will soon see what happens!

Sounds like every experience I ever had with Lightspeed ..

They could give lessons in customer service.. and I often wish they would. The LBS has now had the
"riot act" read to them. Whether you decide to give the shop its one last chance or not, let the rep
at lightspeed know how it goes ...
 
[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> << The shop owner has hand written the following information on the printout: The ideal TT should
> be between 53.5 and 57.5 cm The stem length should be between 80mm and 130mm
>
> YGBSM-4cm range of top tube, 5cm range of stem, and NO mention of seat tube angle-the guy needs
> some fit training...

As I think about how this shop came so highly recommended to me by several people I am beginning to
think they may have just been infatuated by the fact that he is the only shop in town to use a
computer for bike fittings.

It reminds me of the scene in Monty Python's "The Meaning of Life" where all the doctors are
standing around the lady who was in labor in the delivery room. They were all very facinated by
their expensive equipment and were bragging that they had the "Machine That Goes PING!". When the
laboring mother asked "what do I do?" they looked at her and said "Nothing! You're not qualified!!!"

I think he believes whole-heartedly that he has sold me the the correct fitting bike. So when I went
into the shop to discuss the fact that something didn't feel right with the fit of the bike the
reaction was simular. He thinks that I'm not qualified to know!

Now for another question. I have been testing the feel of the bike with the new shorter and higher
stem. While the old stem held my bar at 6cm or 7cm below the saddle height the new one holds it
about 3cm or 4cm below(I'm going by memory because I didn't bring my notes to work with
me). Although I don't feel as streached out I don't think I am quite there yet. The thing I noticed
was that when I ride with my hands down in the drops my knees hit the end of the bars. Please
correct me if I'm wrong but I think I have a couple of options here.

Please correct me if I'm wrong: If my cleats are dead center over the pedals I could move my saddle
back by about 1cm. But by doing that havent' I just cancelled out what I've gained by a 1cm shorter
stem? So I'm now wondering if the reason I'm not feeling so streached is the fact that the stem is
higher. The other option I think I have would be to cut 1 to 2 cm off the ends of the bars once I
get my proper position on the bike. Am I way off base here or am I still on the right track???

BTW. I'd like to say that I really appreciate all of your suggestions and advice! Everybody here has
taken their valuable time to respond and offer suggestions. I'm very impressed with the overall
attitude you have all shown here. Nobody falmed me and I think you all are trying to be helpful.

Thank You!!!

--
OKMTB
 
If you are new to road biking, I think the bars should be no more than an inch below seat level. But
overall, I think you need to find another fitter.

I got my first road bike 3 years ago, and I was fitted by a certified Serotta fitter using a Fit
Cycle. But I felt too stretched out. After a few months of neck strain and discomfort, I got a Nitto
Technomic stem, and I was able to raise the bars up nearly to seat level, and I felt much more
comfortable with that position.

Joe
 
"Joe Nordic" <[email protected]> wrote in news:ZrGga.71663$yc5.47161 @twister.nyroc.rr.com:

> If you are new to road biking, I think the bars should be no more than an inch below seat level.
> But overall, I think you need to find another fitter.
>
> I got my first road bike 3 years ago, and I was fitted by a certified Serotta fitter using a Fit
> Cycle. But I felt too stretched out. After a few months of neck strain and discomfort, I got a
> Nitto Technomic stem, and I was able to raise the bars up nearly to seat level, and I felt much
> more comfortable with that position.

What has me stumped is that with the new stem and bar positions I am now experiencing some neck pain
and a little back pain. I have taken two fairly short rides on the bike since the new stem was
installed. I was thinking that maybe I just wasn't used to the new positon but this morning I woke
up and my neck was still kind of stiff.

Even though I felt too streached out in the 1700 miles of riding on the bike I have never had any
neck or back pain until I put the new stem on. I'm thinking I shouldn't experience this at all but
do I need to give it a little more time?

--
OKMTB
 
One thing that might help you find the right position is to use an adjustable stem. That would let
you try different stem lengths and heights fairly easily. Maybe you could find a dealer who has one
to loan for that purpose.

Joe

> Even though I felt too streached out in the 1700 miles of riding on the bike I have never had any
> neck or back pain until I put the new stem on. I'm thinking I shouldn't experience this at all but
> do I need to give it a little more time?
>
>
> --
> OKMTB
 
<snip> <snip>
> The Litespeed rep encouraged me to give the dealer one last chance to see if things improved after
> his pep talk. He also told me that when I went to him if I saw any further indication that I
> wasn't going to be treated right to call him and he would have the parts shipped to the other LBS
> for them to fix it.
>
> So I will soon see what happens!
>
>
>
> --
> OKMTB

Boy, am I glad
1. to ride a Litespeed,
2. with no integrated headset.

Lou
 
OKMTB <[email protected]> wrote:

>Now for another question. I have been testing the feel of the bike with the new shorter and higher
>stem. While the old stem held my bar at 6cm or 7cm below the saddle height the new one holds it
>about 3cm or 4cm below(I'm going by memory because I didn't bring my notes to work with
>me). Although I don't feel as streached out I don't think I am quite there yet.

You might benefit from my stem chart, showing the vertical vs. horizontal placement of the bars in a
way you can use to determine how much a particular stem will move the bars in both dimensions.

http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html

With it, you can figure out how much higher and/or rearward your bars are with the new stem.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
 
> What has me stumped is that with the new stem and bar positions I am now experiencing some neck
> pain and a little back pain. I have taken two
fairly
> short rides on the bike since the new stem was installed. I was thinking that maybe I just wasn't
> used to the new positon but this morning I woke
up
> and my neck was still kind of stiff.

Back & neck pains can often be related to saddle issues, particularly if you have a saddle that's
even slightly nose down. Even with a level saddle, if you're squirming around trying to get
comfortable, you can have significant issues with your back & neck.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"OKMTB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Joe Nordic" <[email protected]> wrote in news:ZrGga.71663$yc5.47161 @twister.nyroc.rr.com:
>
> > If you are new to road biking, I think the bars should be no more than an inch below seat level.
> > But overall, I think you need to find another fitter.
> >
> > I got my first road bike 3 years ago, and I was fitted by a certified Serotta fitter using a Fit
> > Cycle. But I felt too stretched out. After a few months of neck strain and discomfort, I got a
> > Nitto Technomic stem, and I was able to raise the bars up nearly to seat level, and I felt much
> > more comfortable with that position.
>
>
> What has me stumped is that with the new stem and bar positions I am now experiencing some neck
> pain and a little back pain. I have taken two
fairly
> short rides on the bike since the new stem was installed. I was thinking that maybe I just wasn't
> used to the new positon but this morning I woke
up
> and my neck was still kind of stiff.
>
> Even though I felt too streached out in the 1700 miles of riding on the bike I have never had any
> neck or back pain until I put the new stem on. I'm thinking I shouldn't experience this at all but
> do I need to give it a little more time?
>
>
> --
> OKMTB
 
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:p[email protected]:

> Back & neck pains can often be related to saddle issues, particularly if you have a saddle that's
> even slightly nose down. Even with a level saddle, if you're squirming around trying to get
> comfortable, you can have significant issues with your back & neck.
>

I think I just figured what was causing the pain. I had tried the saddle adjustment yesterday and
that didn't help. Then I remembered the last thing that was adjusted on my bike right before the
pain started. I had repositioned the shift/brake levers on my handlebars so that my hands were at a
different angle in the drops. This evening I moved them back into my origional position. I put the
bike on my rollers and rode for a while and there was no pain.

So I was just reminded of why it's not a good idea to make too many changes at once before testing
the effects of each. Because I had done this at the same time I changed the stem I had assumed that
the shorter stem was the cause.

--
OKMTB
 
OKMTB <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:p[email protected]:
>
>
> > Back & neck pains can often be related to saddle issues, particularly if you have a saddle
> > that's even slightly nose down. Even with a level saddle, if you're squirming around trying to
> > get comfortable, you can have significant issues with your back & neck.
> >
>
>
> I think I just figured what was causing the pain. I had tried the saddle adjustment yesterday and
> that didn't help. Then I remembered the last thing that was adjusted on my bike right before the
> pain started. I had repositioned the shift/brake levers on my handlebars so that my hands were at
> a different angle in the drops. This evening I moved them back into my origional position. I put
> the bike on my rollers and rode for a while and there was no pain.
>
> So I was just reminded of why it's not a good idea to make too many changes at once before testing
> the effects of each. Because I had done this at the same time I changed the stem I had assumed
> that the shorter stem was the cause.

I agree with everyone here that fit is very important, and I particularly agree that someone new to
road bikes - and many experienced riders - should have the handlebar tops not more than 2.5 inches
below the seat top. In fact on a first road bike I'd start with them level.

That said, it may be that your upper back and shoulders would not be in pain if thry were more
flexible. You may find that even a modest program in building flexibility provides greatly increased
comfort in the saddle. Stretching also significantly reduces your chances of injury. I suggest the
book "Stretching" bu Bob Anderson.

-Alexey
 
[email protected] (Alexey Merz) wrote in news:[email protected]:

> You may find that even a modest program in building flexibility provides greatly increased comfort
> in the saddle. Stretching also significantly reduces your chances of injury. I suggest the book
> "Stretching" bu Bob Anderson.

Well, my wife has been trying to get me interested in Yoga. Although the classes she attends are not
at a convenient time for me she has been trying to show me different stretches at home. I guess I
should get more serious about it. I looked up the book you recommended. It looks like it would be a
good resource as well.

Thanks.

--
OKMTB
 
[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I think you need to work with the Litespeed rep, and get yer $ back, and go elsewhere-
>

Yesterday evening I did a little experiment of my own. I followed the step by step fitting
instructions from the book "Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Repair". I also found a couple of online
resources that had simular if not identicle instructions. My measurements came up pretty close to
what the dealer's measurements were. When I did the calculations it showed that the ideal TT should
be 55cm. One resource allowed me to input the measurements and gave the result as the same.

Now I realize that these are only generic formulas that assume that all frames are measured the same
way. I also know that there are other ways of fitting such as a "Fit Cycle". It is most likely that
the dealer's Fit Kit software used the same formulas and gave the same results. However, it did make
me wonder if the LBS who told me that the frame was too big for me could have been doing it to cause
me dissatifaction because I bought the bike from his competitor.

I did try to discuss the bike fit with the Litespeed rep on Wednesday. I offered to email him the
Fit Kit printout from the dealer and asked him to confirm that the frame was the proper size.
However, he stated that they didn't get into frame sizing and relied on their dealers to do that.

I think my best bet is to go to the other Litespeed shops the rep mentioned and pay to have a
fitting done. Because they are both two hours away from me in opposite directions I wouldn't think
they would be direct competitors of my local dealer. I have never been to either shop so I could go
in and say that I'd like to be fitted because I'm concerned I may have purchesed the wrong bike. I
wouldn't even have to tell them who I had bought it from.

By doing this I could have professional unbiased opinions. Then if two authorized Litespeed
dealers told me that the bike was the wrong fit I would think that Litespeed would have to
interceed on my behalf.

OTOH if I had two authorized Litespeed dealers telling me that the bike was the right fit then I'd
know that I needed to make some more adjustments and possibly go take a Yoga class! ;)

--
OKMTB
 
Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message
> You might benefit from my stem chart, showing the vertical vs. horizontal placement of the bars in
> a way you can use to determine how much a particular stem will move the bars in both dimensions.
>
> http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html
>
A great chart. But something puzzles me. I never saw any way to access that page from the
www.habcycles.com site, so have always searched Google archives to get the link. Am I missing
something (stupidity is very possible), or is there no button to the stem chart page?
 
[email protected] (Tom D) wrote:

>Mark Hickey <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> You might benefit from my stem chart, showing the vertical vs. horizontal placement of the bars
>> in a way you can use to determine how much a particular stem will move the bars in both
>> dimensions.
>>
>> http://www.habcycles.com/fitting.html
>>
>A great chart. But something puzzles me. I never saw any way to access that page from the
>www.habcycles.com site, so have always searched Google archives to get the link. Am I missing
>something (stupidity is very possible), or is there no button to the stem chart page?

Yeah, that's on my to-do list. Sigh...

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
 
[email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> The customer is almost always right, particularly about how the rider 'feels' on their bike. WHY
> bike fits should NOT be a computer generated exercise w/o lots of input from the rider...
>

Yesterday I went to another Litespeed dealer. I paid him to do a bike fitting on me and to also look
at the setup on my bike. The good news is that the 55cm frame is the correct for me. The bike fit
measurements he took of me were almost identicle to the origionals. He pointed out to me that I had
a long torso and that is why the 55cm frame works for me even though another dealer tried to tell me
I needed a 53cm.

He also explained that the dealer who tried to tell me my bike was too big could have done so
because he only measured my inseam and assumed I was an 'avarage' build. However, he also indicated
there may have been another motive. He explained that several of the LBS in the area have a history
of fighting each other. He explained that when a customer who had purchased their bike from another
dealer would come into their store asking for help they would often find something to criticize
about the bike often blaming the dealer who had sold it to them. He said there were a few shops in
town who simply refused to play that way while agreeing with one another that the online bike stores
were the real enemy to them. He asured me that I would not hear any derogatory statements about
other LBS from his shop.

Including the fitting he spent about three hours working with me and my bike. His first observation
was that the stem that was on the bike wasn't even the stem that was recommended by the Fit Kit done
by the dealer I bought the bike from. Then he noted that I indeed did look somewhat stretched out.

After making sure all of my other settings were correct he placed a 'stem sizing device' on my bike.
Using the device he demonstrated to me that different stem lengths and heights would either stretch
me out too much or make my back arch too much. Then he put the stem at the length and height that he
recommended. I could tell it was already making a difference. He made several more recommendations
about bar, and hood placements and gave me some ideas to try out to help me achieve a better fit.

He then loaned me a stem for me to try in order for me to see if his recommendations were correct.
He told me that if that one didn't work to come back and he would allow me to try others. On top of
that he didn't even insult me like the other dealer did by telling me I had to leave collateral for
it. He let me know he trusted me!

I have only had a chance to take a short ride with the new setup but it already feels better. I have
a feeling if we are not quite there yet we are very close.

So what it all has come down to is that even though the bike is the right size minor adjustment
problems became magnified by the fact that the shop owner who sold me the bike has very poor
customer relations skills, doesn't care to listen to his customers, and deals with problems in a way
that causes people to loose trust in him and his shop.

Even though I was promised free repairs and ajustments at the shop where I purchased my bike I will
not go back. At this point I don't believe I would even buy an inner tube from him if he had them on
sale for $1.00 a dozen!

OTOH the shop manager I delt with yesterday was very professional and knowledgable. He listened to
what I had to say and was willing to work with me toward finding a solution. He treated me in a way
that made me feel like he appreciated my business and that he could be trusted. When I have taken my
other bikes to him in the past he has always had the bike ready at the promised time. He told me
that he would be happy to do the warranty work on the bike when Litespeed shipped him the parts.

Since I did not buy my road bike from him I will have to pay for repairs and adjustments when I take
my bike to him. However, I will gladly do so because he has gained my trust.

--
OKMTB
 
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