Bike Florida

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Bent4me, Mar 24, 2003.

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  1. Bent4me

    Bent4me Guest

    Just got back from Bike Florida. There were 143 recumbents on this ride of 1400 cyclists,10%. I have
    never seen so many bents at one time. You finally have the feeling that you belong. I am interested
    in adding a trike to my stable and had the pleasure of trying the MR Swift, WW, Greenspeed, Timuter
    and sitting on the new Catrike. I understand why the GTO is so popular. It is one solid trike. Bike
    Florida org did a great job with few minor gliches. The weather could have cooperated better. All in
    all this is a great trip to start off your cycling season and I highly recommend. It is nice to
    finally come back to some nice weather in NJ. Unfortunatly, camp is over and I must return to work.
    What a fantastic trip.

    Marty Englishtown, NJ Stratus 00 Rocket 01
     
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  2. Chere

    Chere Guest

    I agree.... an absolutely fabulous event and the people were terrific as well.

    We biked 20 miles in the rain on the last leg of the journey but I didn't even mind, I was on some
    sort of "pedalers high" and proud as punch of every single one of us for our accomplishment.

    Yep, 'bents were everywhere. We aren't "ruling" as yet, but it's coming.

    Anyone participating in GOBA? Do you suppose it will be more challenging than Bike Florida? After
    Bike Florida, I'm psyched for another ride and June sounds like the perfect time but I don't want to
    bite off more than my vast dental work in my 55 year old head can chew. (minimum: 250
    miles...maximum: 410) The 15th Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure Greenville - Troy - Xenia - Middletown -
    Brookville - Greenville June 14 - 21, 2003 Chere GRR Sanibel, FL Cumberland, MD
     
  3. Chere, did you hear anything about some cyclists crashing on a bridge at Bike Florida? A poster at
    my thread "Riding over bridge grating - PHOBIA" made mention of this. If so, I'd like to hear from
    you or others, as I'm ramping up to take on FDOT (Florida Department of Transportation) about our
    ABSOLUTE DANGEROUS (2-Wheel vehicle UNFRIENDLY) BRIDGES, we have here in Florida. EZ Biker :)
    Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti & Tailwind Pilot)

    "chere" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I agree.... an absolutely fabulous event and the people were terrific as well.
    >
    > We biked 20 miles in the rain on the last leg of the journey but I didn't even mind, I was on some
    > sort of "pedalers high" and proud as punch of
    every
    > single one of us for our accomplishment.
    >
    > Yep, 'bents were everywhere. We aren't "ruling" as yet, but it's coming.
    >
    > Anyone participating in GOBA? Do you suppose it will be more challenging than Bike Florida? After
    > Bike Florida, I'm psyched for another ride and June sounds like the perfect time but I don't want
    > to bite off more than
    my
    > vast dental work in my 55 year old head can chew. (minimum: 250 miles...maximum: 410) The 15th
    > Great Ohio Bicycle Adventure Greenville - Troy - Xenia - Middletown - Brookville - Greenville June
    > 14 - 21, 2003 Chere GRR Sanibel, FL Cumberland, MD
     
  4. Chere

    Chere Guest

    Hi Ken, I didn't come across any bike pile-ups on the Bike Florida trip but I did remember reading
    your incident report and when approaching bridges and railroad tracks, I proceeded with caution. The
    only accident I saw was Don barreling through a sand mound that had gotten blown across his path and
    he went down fast. So glad he was wearing his helmet 'cause it flipped him on his noggin'. He is
    sporting some road rash on his elbow and knee but nothing serious thank Goodness. Go get 'em on that
    bridge danger issue. Chere
     
  5. Thanks Chere. I've gotten NUMEROUS e-mails from people concerning my bridge issue. This is clearly a
    PROBLEM that involves ALL OF FLORIDA and is also a problem in some other States as well.
    Surprisingly, I've even gotten e-mails from Motorcyclists, about their close encounters with bridge
    gratings, especially when wet. I'm very PUMPED UP and ready to take the issues to FDOT!!! (Florida
    Department Of Transportation) EZ (Phobic of Bridge Grating) Biker :-((( Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti &
    Tailwind Pilot)

    "chere" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...
    > Hi Ken, I didn't come across any bike pile-ups on the Bike Florida trip but I did remember reading
    > your incident report and when approaching bridges and railroad tracks, I proceeded with caution.
    > The only accident I saw was
    Don
    > barreling through a sand mound that had gotten blown across his path and
    he
    > went down fast. So glad he was wearing his helmet 'cause it flipped him
    on
    > his noggin'. He is sporting some road rash on his elbow and knee but nothing serious thank
    > Goodness. Go get 'em on that bridge danger issue. Chere
     
  6. "EZ Biker :)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks Chere. I've gotten NUMEROUS e-mails from people concerning my
    bridge
    > issue. This is clearly a PROBLEM that involves ALL OF FLORIDA and is also
    a
    > problem in some other States as well. Surprisingly, I've even gotten
    e-mails
    > from Motorcyclists, about their close encounters with bridge gratings, especially when wet. I'm
    > very PUMPED UP and ready to take the issues to FDOT!!! (Florida Department Of Transportation) EZ
    > (Phobic of Bridge Grating) Biker :-((( Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti & Tailwind Pilot)

    I appreciate what you are doing, but you might want to consider cutting down on the YELLING, when
    you suggest changes to the authorities. In my opinion, the case stands a better chance discussing it
    calmly. If it don't help, you can start the "bridge rage" and contact newspapers and so on.

    Good luck!

    Torben Evita SWB in .dk (which have bridges where bicycles are forbidden)
     
  7. Torben, to be honest, I'm probably one of the most laid back kind of persons you'd ever meet. BUT,
    having only been involved in this bridge issue for a short time, I continue to receive input, where
    numerous people have TRIED & TRIED (FOREVER) to take the tact of "discussing it calmly" with
    authorities. The end result has been the same YAWN, maybe one day we'll check into the issue, if a
    2-wheel cyclist gets really butchered up or killed on one of these bridges. In meantime, numerous
    cyclists are continuing to be seriously injured on these unpredictable and unforgiving metal grates.
    (Something I recently got to experience...)

    So YES, Torben initially, I do plan on taking the CALM tact on this issue. And if that fails to get
    these meat grinders corrected, then plan "Y" might need to be, the next course of action. Florida
    touts it's self as being a bicycle Friendly State, and yet it continues to allow 2-wheel vehicle
    UNFRIENDLY ROADWAYS to exist. Enough is enough!

    EZ (Not YELLING yet.) Biker :) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti & Tailwind Pilot)

    PS: I put the 2-wheel vehicle wording in, because a number of "motorcyclists," have also contacted
    me about their close encounters with Florida's meat grinder bridges.

    "Torben Scheel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    consider cutting down on the YELLING...
     
  8. Carol Cohen

    Carol Cohen Guest

    Plenty of other states have metal grates on the opening sections of drawbridges. GA (Brunswick to
    Jekyll I.), MA (Dartmouth harbor), for example. I'd love to see this dealt with on a national level.
    Because except for the rail trails, Florida isn't exactly famous for being bicyclist-friendly.

    C.C.

    > From: "EZ Biker :-\)" <[email protected]>

    > Torben, to be honest, I'm probably one of the most laid back kind of persons you'd ever meet. BUT,
    > having only been involved in this bridge issue for a short time, I continue to receive input,
    > where numerous people have TRIED & TRIED (FOREVER) to take the tact of "discussing it calmly" with
    > authorities. The end result has been the same YAWN, maybe one day we'll check into the issue, if a
    > 2-wheel cyclist gets really butchered up or killed on one of these bridges. In meantime, numerous
    > cyclists are continuing to be seriously injured on these unpredictable and unforgiving metal
    > grates. (Something I recently got to experience...)
     
  9. John W

    John W Guest

    This is a warning about pursuing FDOT with the bridge grating problem. We had an incident in Wayne
    Township Illinois in 1992 where a cyclist fell while crossing a wooden bridge. This bridge had about
    1" gaps in the boards causing him to catch his wheel and fall. There are bridges like this all over
    the country. If they look dangerous I usually let common sense take over and walk across the bridge.
    The incident in Illinois is known as the Boub case and has become quite famous, you may have heard
    about it. Mr. Boub sued Wayne Township for negligence in their maintenance of the bridge. This drug
    on all the way to the Illinois Supreme Court. In 1998 the Supreme Court struck a death blow to all
    Illinois cyclist by ruling that bicycles are not considered vehicles in Illinois, thus Wayne
    Township was not liable since
    Mr. Boub's bike was not a vehicle. This meant that he could not take legal recourse against the
    highway department, such as a car driver could since the car driver is operating a legally
    designated vehicle. This has eliminated many bicycle projects in the state. The League of
    Illinois Bicyclist has been fighting this for five years and so for has not been able to have it
    overturned. All this because one guy was going to get even with the highway department. So if I
    was you I would think long and hard about taking this through legal channels, it just may come
    back to bite you. For more on the Boub case: http://bikelib.org/boubcase/boubmenu.html and
    here's a list of bicycle project in Illinois that did not happen because of Boub:
    http://bikelib.org/boubcase/excuses.html

    John

    "EZ Biker :)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eek:[email protected]...
    > Torben, to be honest, I'm probably one of the most laid back kind of
    persons
    > you'd ever meet. BUT, having only been involved in this bridge issue for a short time, I continue
    > to receive input, where numerous people have TRIED
    &
    > TRIED (FOREVER) to take the tact of "discussing it calmly" with
    authorities.
    > The end result has been the same YAWN, maybe one day we'll check into the issue, if a 2-wheel
    > cyclist gets really butchered up or killed on one of these bridges. In meantime, numerous cyclists
    > are continuing to be
    seriously
    > injured on these unpredictable and unforgiving metal grates. (Something I recently got to
    > experience...)
    >
    > So YES, Torben initially, I do plan on taking the CALM tact on this issue. And if that fails to
    > get these meat grinders corrected, then plan "Y"
    might
    > need to be, the next course of action. Florida touts it's self as being a bicycle Friendly State,
    > and yet it continues to allow 2-wheel vehicle UNFRIENDLY ROADWAYS to exist. Enough is enough!
    >
    > EZ (Not YELLING yet.) Biker :) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti & Tailwind
    Pilot)
    >
    >
    >
    > PS: I put the 2-wheel vehicle wording in, because a number of "motorcyclists," have also contacted
    > me about their close encounters with Florida's meat grinder bridges.
    >
    >
    > "Torben Scheel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > consider cutting down on the YELLING...
     
  10. Seth Jayson

    Seth Jayson Guest

    The League of Illinois
    > Bicyclist has been fighting this for five years and so for has not been able to have it
    > overturned.

    Technically, this can't be 'overturned.' Rather, the LIB and Chicagoland bike Fed have been trying
    to get legislators to pass a law that would state that bicycles are indeed intended users of
    Illinois roads, unless excluded for some reason (interstates, etc.).

    There are a couple of bills in Springfield right now to address this. Unfortunately, Illinois
    municipalities have been convinced by their legal departments that they'll have to pay through the
    nose if their Boub loophole is removed and they've all been lobbying HARD against the bill. I have
    heard, but have not been able to verify, that the normally bike-friendly city of Chicago is one of
    the major players fighting the bill.

    Apparently, there's a compromise in the works that would NOT say that bicyclists are intended users,
    but that they're protected against 'willful and wanton' behavior by municipalities. I guess it's
    something, but it's still not enough.

    True example: missing manhole cover in Chicago near my office.
    1)Fall in hole with SUV, Motorcycle, or on foot: SUE CITY for negligence.
    2)Fall in with bike, NO LEGAL RECOURSE.
    3)With compromise bill: NO LEGAL RECOURSE.
    4)With compromise bill and enough detective work to find out that I phoned the city 4 times in one
    week asking them to replace the manhole cover: MAYBE some legal recourse.

    Best info on this issue is at www.biketraffic.org.

    Sj

    P.S. Don't be discouraged by the Illinois experience. There's no reason to accept dangerous
    conditions for bicyclists. We all need to stand up for our rights and stop flinching every time
    the powers that be say 'boo!'
     
  11. John

    John Guest

    Does this mean in the state of Illinios, I can run stop signs on my bicycle and not be charged?

    John

    "John W" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > This is a warning about pursuing FDOT with the bridge grating problem. We had an incident in Wayne
    > Township Illinois in 1992 where a cyclist fell while crossing a wooden bridge. This bridge had
    > about 1" gaps in the boards causing him to catch his wheel and fall. There are bridges like this
    > all over the country. If they look dangerous I usually let common sense take over and walk across
    > the bridge. The incident in Illinois is known as the Boub case and has become quite famous, you
    > may have heard about it. Mr. Boub sued Wayne Township for negligence in their maintenance of the
    > bridge. This drug on all the way to the Illinois Supreme Court. In 1998 the Supreme Court struck a
    > death blow to all Illinois cyclist by ruling that bicycles are not considered vehicles in
    > Illinois, thus Wayne Township was not liable since
    > Mr. Boub's bike was not a vehicle. This meant that he could not take legal recourse against the
    > highway department, such as a car driver could since the car driver is operating a legally
    > designated vehicle. This has eliminated many bicycle projects in the state. The League of
    > Illinois Bicyclist has been fighting this for five years and so for has not been able to have
    > it overturned. All this because one guy was going to get even with the highway department. So
    > if I was you I would think long and hard about taking this through legal channels, it just may
    > come back to bite you. For more on the Boub case: http://bikelib.org/boubcase/boubmenu.html
    > and here's a list of bicycle project in Illinois that did not happen because of Boub:
    > http://bikelib.org/boubcase/excuses.html
    >
    > John
    >
    >
    > "EZ Biker :)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:eek:[email protected]...
    > > Torben, to be honest, I'm probably one of the most laid back kind of
    > persons
    > > you'd ever meet. BUT, having only been involved in this bridge issue for a short time, I
    > > continue to receive input, where numerous people have TRIED
    > &
    > > TRIED (FOREVER) to take the tact of "discussing it calmly" with
    > authorities.
    > > The end result has been the same YAWN, maybe one day we'll check into the issue, if a 2-wheel
    > > cyclist gets really butchered up or killed on one of these bridges. In meantime, numerous
    > > cyclists are continuing to be
    > seriously
    > > injured on these unpredictable and unforgiving metal grates. (Something I recently got to
    > > experience...)
    > >
    > > So YES, Torben initially, I do plan on taking the CALM tact on this issue. And if that fails to
    > > get these meat grinders corrected, then plan "Y"
    > might
    > > need to be, the next course of action. Florida touts it's self as being a bicycle Friendly
    > > State, and yet it continues to allow 2-wheel vehicle UNFRIENDLY ROADWAYS to exist. Enough is
    > > enough!
    > >
    > > EZ (Not YELLING yet.) Biker :) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti & Tailwind
    > Pilot)
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > PS: I put the 2-wheel vehicle wording in, because a number of "motorcyclists," have also
    > > contacted me about their close encounters with Florida's meat grinder bridges.
    > >
    > >
    > > "Torben Scheel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > consider cutting down on the YELLING...
    > >
     
  12. SORRY for Illinois cyclists, there John! However in Florida, bicycles are recognized as "Vehicles".
    NO NEED for me to think LONG & HARD about taking on FDOT. One needs only to kiss the unforgiving
    metal grating and realize, this UNSAFE ROAD SURFACE presents a clear and present danger to all
    2-wheel vehicle traffic, which may involve 4 wheel traffic too. Mine isn't a case of trying to get
    even; but rather to MAKE FLORIDA BRIDGES SAFE FOR ALL KINDS OF VEHICLE TRAFFIC! Legal recourse isn't
    even being considered by me, (Yet...)even though I too am a bridge metal grating slip and fall crash
    victim. EZ Biker :) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti & Tailwind Pilot)

    "John W" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > This is a warning about pursuing FDOT with the bridge grating problem.
     
  13. John Riley

    John Riley Guest

    "John W" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > This is a warning about pursuing FDOT with the bridge grating problem. [...]In 1998 the Supreme
    > Court struck a death blow to all Illinois cyclist by ruling that bicycles are not considered
    > vehicles in Illinois, thus Wayne Township was not liable since
    > Mr. Boub's bike was not a vehicle. This meant that he could not take legal recourse against the
    > highway department, [...]

    Seems to me this decision does not _block_ a bike friendly community from solving bike related road
    problems, even if it means they are not _required_ to do so.

    John Riley
     
  14. John W

    John W Guest

    John,

    It does stop them in Illinois. Did you read about the Boub case on the LIB website. If an Illinois
    municipality makes their roads bike friendly (even putting up a bike route sign) this shows the
    cyclist is an intended user and if the cyclist is injured he can take legal action against the
    municipality. So municipalities in Illinois go out of there way to make sure their roads are not
    bike friendly and thus will not be subjected to legal action because the cyclist has no legal
    recourse in Illinois as long as he is not considered an intended road user. In other words these
    municipalities figure why take a chance on being sued if we don't have to. Isn't our legal system
    wonderful.

    John

    "John Riley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "John W" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > This is a warning about pursuing FDOT with the bridge grating problem.
    [...]In 1998 the Supreme Court
    > > struck a death blow to all Illinois cyclist by ruling that bicycles are
    not
    > > considered vehicles in Illinois, thus Wayne Township was not liable
    since
    > > Mr. Boub's bike was not a vehicle. This meant that he could not take
    legal
    > > recourse against the highway department, [...]
    >
    > Seems to me this decision does not _block_ a bike friendly community from solving bike related
    > road problems, even if it means they are not _required_ to do so.
    >
    > John Riley
     
  15. John W

    John W Guest

    They were also considered vehicles in Illinois until the Boub case. I also agree with Torben
    about your shouting, I think its unnecessary. I may not agree with you but that does not mean I
    cannot hear you.

    John

    "EZ Biker :)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > SORRY for Illinois cyclists, there John! However in Florida, bicycles are recognized as
    > "Vehicles". NO NEED for me to think LONG & HARD about taking on FDOT. One needs only to kiss the
    > unforgiving metal grating and realize, this UNSAFE ROAD SURFACE presents a clear and present
    > danger to all
    2-wheel
    > vehicle traffic, which may involve 4 wheel traffic too. Mine isn't a case
    of
    > trying to get even; but rather to MAKE FLORIDA BRIDGES SAFE FOR ALL KINDS
    OF
    > VEHICLE TRAFFIC! Legal recourse isn't even being considered by me, (Yet...)even though I too am a
    > bridge metal grating slip and fall crash victim. EZ Biker :) Pompano Beach, Fl. (GRR Ti &
    > Tailwind Pilot)
    >
    >
    > "John W" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > This is a warning about pursuing FDOT with the bridge grating problem.
     
  16. "John W" skrev...
    > They were also considered vehicles in Illinois until the Boub case. I also agree with Torben about
    > your shouting, I think its unnecessary. I may not agree with you but that does not mean I cannot
    > hear you.

    Theres a secret message in the shouting:

    > > SORRY NO NEED LONG & HARD FDOT. UNSAFE ROAD MAKE FLORIDA BRIDGES SAFE FOR ALL KINDS OF VEHICLE
    > > TRAFFIC!
    > >
    > > EZ GRR
     
  17. "John W" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > This is a warning about pursuing FDOT with the bridge grating problem. We had an incident in Wayne
    > Township Illinois in 1992 where a cyclist fell while crossing a wooden bridge.
    We had a problem where a biker fell into a missing part of the grate and he sued. He did win
    somewhat but the bridge now has a law where no bikes can ride on the bridge. The police love to
    give tickets.
     
  18. John W

    John W Guest

    Good one Mikael. (-;

    John

    "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "John W" skrev...
    > > They were also considered vehicles in Illinois until the Boub case. I
    also
    > > agree with Torben about your shouting, I think its unnecessary. I may
    not
    > > agree with you but that does not mean I cannot hear you.
    >
    > Theres a secret message in the shouting:
    >
    > > > SORRY NO NEED LONG & HARD FDOT. UNSAFE ROAD MAKE FLORIDA BRIDGES SAFE FOR ALL KINDS OF VEHICLE
    > > > TRAFFIC!
    > > >
    > > > EZ GRR
     
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