Bike-free roundabouts

[BrettS]

Peter Signorini wrote:

>
> Anyone else seen one of these types of roundabout treatments, or is it just
> a new 'innovation' by the City of Manningham. Wonder what BV has done about
> these. Hello there Harry?
>

Aren't these advisory signs, like the ones indicating speeds on country
road curves. Maybe a little noctural bolt removal is required. Would
make a nice addition to the shed below the bikes hanging on the wall.

--
Brett"This is not in any way a serious suggestion..."S

 

[EuanB]

Euan

These `bicycle facilities' appear to stink, but that doesn't mean that
all do, or that they are a plot to get us off the road.

Where did I say that these facilities are a plot to get us off the road?

Oh that's right, I didn't. I'm well aware that the intentions are good, just misguided. That's why I'm doing something about it.

 

[EuanB]

Why does BV do nothing here? I can't see a coffee bar in sight, since
BV only caters for latte sipping, inner city fake 1km a day cyclists
they won't get near this location.

You really need to be careful with your attributions. This paragraph was originally posted by neuroinf. You've posted it with no attribution so it looks like your saying it, which isn't the case.

Bullsh*t.

Why don't YOU do something instead of slagging off people you know
nothing about?

Agreed. BV only has so many resources and they full time, they can't possibly know everything that's going on in Victoria. That's why BV has members.

If you're a BV member and you see something you want done about it, get off your butt and do something. Be sure to include BV on all correspondance and things will get done.

Sitting back and whinging on Usenet (cyclingforums) will achieve the square root of zero in practical terms.

(Echoing silence)

Poor form. At least allow time for responses before determining if there's an echoing silence or not.

 

[Stuart Lamble]

On 2006-01-04, gplama <[email protected]> wrote:
> OK ppls.. pics taken, uploaded, sorted, and posted..
>
> http://tinyurl.com/be5ra
>
> I actually rode these things tonight while taking pics.. what a
> nightmare... I'll post this via usenet too if the replication of this
> doesnt take place fast enough...

Looking at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37985849@N00/81966585/in/set-1750945/ ...
I'm wondering what those lines are on the bottom left corner, running up
to what appears to be a manhole cover. Indentations in the concrete? How
deep? How wide? At speed, they could be a serious issue for cyclists.

General reaction: BLEARGH!

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@" to "usenet".

 

[Random Data]

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:50:15 +0800, BrettS wrote:

> 252 No bicycles signs and markings
<snip>
> ending at the nearest of the following:
<snip>
> (f) the next intersection

You know, if there's a ramp in the gutter you could claim it as an
intersection. If not it's impractical to ride. Problem solved.

--
Dave Hughes | [email protected]
"I've found that nurturing one's Zen nature is vital to dealing with
technology. Violence is pretty damn useful too" - Lionel Lauer

 

[flyingdutch]

I'm wondering what those lines are on the bottom left corner, running up
to what appears to be a manhole cover. Indentations in the concrete? How
deep? How wide? At speed, they could be a serious issue for cyclists.

possibly those token 'grip' things that seem to be proliferatig at all ped crossings now. dang slppery in wet which seems rather counterproductive.
Wierd watching em install these things... its like a molten plastic that they shape with a mould sitting over em while they cool

 

[TimC]

On 2006-01-04, BrettS (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> TimC wrote:
>> Cite?
>>
> From the Australian Road Rules
>
> 252 No bicycles signs and markings
> (1) The rider of a bicycle must not ride on a length of road or
> footpath to which a no bicycles sign, or a no bicycles road
> marking, applies.
> Offence provision.
> Note: Footpath, length of road and no bicycles road marking are defined
> in the dictionary.
> (2) A no bicycles sign, or a no bicycles road marking, applies to a
> length of road or footpath beginning at the sign or marking and
> ending at the nearest of the following:
> (a) a bicycle path sign or bicycle path road marking;
> (b) a bicycle lane sign;
> (c) a separated footpath sign or separated footpath road
> marking;
> (d) a shared path sign;
> (e) an end no bicycles sign;
> (f) the next intersection.

Does that apply to a sign that says "all bicycles" that points to a
location off the road? There is no sign along the length of road
saying "no bicycles".

--
TimC
I'm lost
I've gone to look for myself.
If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait.
--Dan in AFDA

 

[cfsmtb]

This one's actually a Vicroads Road/Issue
queried with em 6 months ago as to when the 'Pari-roubaix' section was gonig to finish so we could enjoy our BR...

Hmm, related to this bit I posted further up the thread?

AND.. another thing that maybe of interest:

Old Warrandyte Road, Donvale - Reconstruction: (Mitcham Road to Mullum Mullum Creek)
http://www.manningham.vic.gov.au/CA...ad+Projects~&3=20-Old+Warrandyte+Rd,+Donvale~

 

[neuroinf]

Yes, ok, BV do a great job. I am endlessly and humbly grateful for the
bike lane down Nepean Hwy.

 

[TimC]

On 2006-01-05, neuroinf (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> Yes, ok, BV do a great job. I am endlessly and humbly grateful for the
> bike lane down Nepean Hwy.

From my brief rides down Nepean Hwy, I'd be humbly grateful if that
road never gets the bike lane treatment that BV seem to always go for
-- the shared parking and bike lanes. It's quite a rideable highway,
I found.

--
TimC
"Eppur si muove!" (And yet it does move!)
-- Galileo Galilei

 

[warrwych]

Hmm, related to this bit I posted further up the thread?

further to the info posted by cfsmtb, it states:

"The works, which will improve safety for vehicular traffic, pedestrians and cyclists, include:

* widening of the roadway to provide a 4 metre width travel lane and a 1.5 metre width bicycle lane in each direction for the majority of this section of the road;"

From gplama's photos, I don't see much evidence of a 1.5 m bike line ...for the majority..of the road. Whatever "this section of the road" is (not clearly stated).

 

[flyingdutch]

Hmm, related to this bit I posted further up the thread?

yeah, its one of these dumbarse scenarios where its under VR jurisdiction but VR will contract Council to manage it. ie any decisions will be made by VR (or council just refers back to VR for decision)

would explain the incredibly long process that this stretch has taken

the bit between Mitcham Rd and Springvale Rd was done prior to BR(1)!!!
(that's 18months ago folks). The section between SpRd and MullumMCk was ongoing for 6-9mths

beauracracy is grand, 'isnt it grommit!'

 

[DaveB]

flyingdutch wrote:
>
> This one's actually a Vicroads Road/Issue
> queried with em 6 months ago as to when the 'Pari-roubaix' section was
> gonig to finish so we could enjoy our BR...
>

Dutchy if it's VicRoads who do we send mail to (I know you know people
in VicRoads).

DaveB

 

[cfsmtb]

yeah, its one of these dumbarse scenarios where its under VR jurisdiction but VR will contract Council to manage it. ie any decisions will be made by VR (or council just refers back to VR for decision)

VicRoads Road Management Act.

 

[Bleve]

flyingdutch wrote:
> Stuart Lamble Wrote:
> >
> > I'm wondering what those lines are on the bottom left corner, running
> > up
> > to what appears to be a manhole cover. Indentations in the concrete?
> > How
> > deep? How wide? At speed, they could be a serious issue for cyclists.
> >
>
> possibly those token 'grip' things that seem to be proliferatig at all
> ped crossings now. dang slppery in wet which seems rather
> counterproductive.
> Wierd watching em install these things... its like a molten plastic
> that they shape with a mould sitting over em while they cool

Are they for grip, or guiding blind people?

Grip-wise, they're sub-optimal

 

[Rory Williams]

Are they for grip, or guiding blind people?

Grip-wise, they're sub-optimal

My understanding is that they are for the blind. In some situations the dots are linked to a row of dashes that run across the foot path, I presume the dashes get piched up by the ball end of the white cane (sorry if I offend anyone, I don't know a better term for it) and guide the person to the dots which I presume indicate a controlled crossing of some type.

There are a lot of these arround the Prahan area. (eg up and down Commercial Rd but there is a Braille Library just there)

Speaking of guiding cyclists off road a similar situation exists on Dandenong rd just past Glenferrie (east bound) this ramp takes you off the road and under the railway by a separate pedestrian underpass. when travelling west one is supposed to leave Dandenong Rd about 400m before the road underpass and go through to Normanby Rd on the other side of the tracks.

I rarely use that under-pass it normally seems to be full of broken glass I didnt realise the signs made it mandatory to leave the road.

If you ride Dandenong Rd beween Glenferrie and Tooronga watch out for the cracks opening up in the concrete surface - getting wide enough to swallow a wheel

One lives and learns

RoryW

 

[dewatf]

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:07:38 GMT, TimC
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Does that apply to a sign that says "all bicycles" that points to a
>location off the road? There is no sign along the length of road
>saying "no bicycles".

As I said in another post it isn't clear. There is no mention of rules
regarding "all bicycles" or a requirment to ride on seperate
cyclesways mentioned in the Australian Road rules (that I could find
anyway).

dewatf.

 

[persia]

Euan wrote"

Where did I say that these facilities are a plot to get us off the
road?

Here:

"...And here we see the logical outcome of providing `bicycle
facilities'.
Get the bikes off the road is the mantra of those who do not consider
bicycles to be the legitimate vehicles on the road that they are...."

Anyway, whatever, good on you for following it up, that wasn't my main
point anyway.

Persia

 

[flyingdutch]

flyingdutch wrote:
>
> This one's actually a Vicroads Road/Issue
> queried with em 6 months ago as to when the 'Pari-roubaix' section was
> gonig to finish so we could enjoy our BR...
>

Dutchy if it's VicRoads who do we send mail to (I know you know people
in VicRoads).

DaveB

the general 'feedback' page/form

gets logged and has to be replied to within 14 days or 'bad things happen' in beauracracy-land

make sure you supply contact details

perhaps a few of us could do this and we can cut-n-paste our blurb onto here and compare notes on what replies, etc we get (PS take notes while speaking to them, presuming they dont give email response which they seem less likely to these days...)

http://tinyurl.com/87355

 

[DaveB]

flyingdutch wrote:
>
> the general 'feedback' page/form
>
> gets logged and has to be replied to within 14 days or 'bad things
> happen' in beauracracy-land
>
> make sure you supply contact details
>
> perhaps a few of us could do this and we can cut-n-paste our blurb onto
> here and compare notes on what replies, etc we get (PS take notes while
> speaking to them, presuming they dont give email response which they
> seem less likely to these days...)
>
> http://tinyurl.com/87355

Done:

I would like to express my displeasure with the roundabouts recently
installed on Old Warrandyte Rd in Donvale. As a regular cyclist along
this road the recent addition of signs requiring bicycles to leave the
road at the roundabouts and proceed along the footpath seems to be very
poorly thought out. I assume the theory is that either this will reduce
any delays to motorists by cyclists, or to reduce the perceived danger
to cyclists.

However what has actually been achieved is a) increased risk to
pedestrians as cyclists come onto the footpath, b) increased risk to
cyclists as they cross the paths of the motorists entering the
roundabout from their left, and c) increased risk to cyclists when
re-entering the road. All of this at a point where motorists are forced
to slow down anyway making this one of the safer places for cyclists and
motorists to co-exist.

I would suggest that before these methods are used again the engineers
responsible give some thought as to how safe and effective this path
actually is for cyclists.

DaveB