Bike Fridays new Tikit folding bike

[Bill]

Pat wrote:
>> I always wonder about two things when hearing this sermon:
>>
>> 1) what did the workers do before?
>>
>> 2) what shall they do after?
>>
>> --
>> Ryan Cousineau
>
> You may "wonder" but you don't care, do you? I guess you might when and if
> it impacts your livelihood. Until then, it's just "too bad for the other
> guy."
>
> I don't know about Dahon's customer service, but the people at Bike Friday
> are terrific. They even sell other, smaller items for less than many
> retailers. If you doubt this, check out their prices for Thomson seat posts
> or SPD pedals. In the meantime, you can tell yourself that you are glad you
> settled for second best.
>
> Pat in TX
>
>
I didn't see the beginning of this thread, but it did hit a nerve.
Being put out of work by off shoring has hit me hard since I work in
electronics. This has been a result of moving first, manufacturing, then
engineering to China. Software (most of it) is done in India (just like
the Dell call centers). My last software only job in 1998 had me as a
software tester trying to break the software and find bugs between
Netscape on a PC and a SUN Unix system. At the end of the day I typed up
a report that was sent to the 'programming group' in India. I never got
to fix or actually program anything.
As you all know, damn near anything you buy these days is made in China,
each of which used to be a good American job. It used to be Japan, but
even they are outsourcing to China because Japanese labor costs too much.
Bikes too.
It's a nasty spiral downward for this country and anyone who can't see
that is just plain brain dead. I make a point to spend the extra dollars
to buy 'non-Chinese' goods, but with 300 million other Americans not
caring, it is a losing fight.
Bicycle point...I bought a water bottle for my bike and put it in the
refrigerator for about a month. When I took it out to use for a ride and
took a 'test' drink I gagged on it since it tasted like plastic.
They sell us junk and laugh all the way to the bank, so to speak, about
us stupid Americans buying their ****.

We did it to ourselves.
Bill Bala

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 20, 11:54 pm, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
>
>
>
>
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Apr 20, 12:28 am, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
>
> > > "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > On Apr 19, 10:49 am, Alan Hoyle <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > On 18 Apr 2007 16:16:23 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>
> > > > > > I get the feeling that BF (the company) is mostly a passion of the
> > > > > > owners. They just love to design, make and sell custom folding bikes.
> > > > > > They can afford to indulge their passion, without always having one
> > > > > > eye on the bottom line. A great business model, if you have the
> > > > > > resources to pull it off.
> > > > > > On second thought re: my earlier post, I think perhaps they have not
> > > > > > firmly decided on a base price for the Tikit. Maybe they first want
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > see what kind of market interest there is in this new model.
>
> > > > > I was at Bikes @ Vienna in northern Virginia this past weekend (bought
> > > > > a folder for my fiance'), and they had a Bike Friday Tikit there. It
> > > > > looked pretty cool and the folding process was really neat. They were
> > > > > asking ~$1200 for it, which was out of our price range (we ended up
> > > > > picking out a Dahon Vitesse with a Sturmey Archer 5 speed internal
> > > > > hub; she loves it so far).
>
> > > Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.
>
> > > > Chinese labor is much less $ than what American workers earn. From
> > > >www.dahon.com:
>
> > > > ...our bicycles are assembled in our factories in Taiwan, Macau, the
> > > > Czech Republic and China...
>
> > > The Chinese need it more. And what do you have against our friends the
> > > Czechs and Taiwan (ROC)?
>
> > > --
> > > Ryan Cousineau [email protected]://www.wiredcola.com/
> > > "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> > > to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted
> > > text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Begin sermon:
>
> > The brave new world of the global economy makes goods and services
> > cheaper. The most efficient provider is rewarded, and the others get
> > bought out or go out of business. I think Dahon threw in the Czechs
> > and Taiwan to make their choice of labor more palatable to Americans.
> > Unless I miss my guess, the bulk of their labor is provided by China.
> > Those laborers are typically paid barely enough to survive. The
> > businesses, and the Chinese government, ravage the environment,
> > treating the air, ground and water like limitless sewers. So their
> > cost of doing business is much lower than in the USA. Those workers
> > will work hard every day, until their dying day. Pensions? Quality
> > health care? I doubt it.
>
> > At some point, Americans will realize that buying cheap Chinese goods
> > is making a deal with the devil. More and more American workers will
> > be displaced. It does not matter much to me personally, because my job
> > is a secure as job security gets.
>
> > None of this matters much to most Americans. All they care about is a
> > good bike at an (artificially) low cost. Until it is their own ox
> > being gored.
>
> > End sermon - J.
>
> I always wonder about two things when hearing this sermon:
>
> 1) what did the workers do before?
>
> 2) what shall they do after?
>
> --
> Ryan Cousineau [email protected]://www.wiredcola.com/
> "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
> to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Wandering thoughts on a Sat afternoon, by someone who has way too much
free time:

What I am saying, is the global economy, with the Free Trade
Agreement, is a two-edged sword. Wall-Mart if full of cheap Chinese-
made stuff at affordable prices. A great many Americans enjoy a nice
lifestyle as a result, because those same products made strictly in
the USA would tend to be much higher-priced, for the reasons I listed
earlier.

The other edge of that sword, is some American jobs, companies and
entire industries are going to be displaced by China, India, whatever.
This has already happened to industries like cars, steel, textiles,
etc. More recently, it is happening to anyone who does their job 'over
the wire', like customer service, tax preparation, etc.

Why is this topic appropriate in a bike forum? Because bike sales and
support is the quintessential neighborhood business. I still recall my
dad and I in the Schwinn bike shop, buying my first bike. I always
thought that bike was too big, but dad said I would grow into it. I
think dads always say stuff like that.

So small American companies like BF need to focus on their target
customer. They can't compete on simply a price basis with companies
like Dahon.

But the really annoying thing about Dahon is how 'green' they claim to
be, on their website. Anyone who knows anything about global pollution
knows that Chinese cities and industrial areas are the cesspools of
the world, basically unlivable by American standards.

I chose BF over Dahon, because I knew I would think of Chinese
pollution whenever I looked at my bike. I paid the extra cost of a BF,
because I can afford it.

My curse is, my parents gave me a conscience. I can't just take the
money and run, guilt-free. Most Americans can't afford to follow my
suit, or they simply chose not to, for selfish reasons - Saint J.

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Pat" <[email protected]> wrote:

> >
> > I always wonder about two things when hearing this sermon:
> >
> > 1) what did the workers do before?
> >
> > 2) what shall they do after?
> >
> > --
> > Ryan Cousineau
>
> You may "wonder" but you don't care, do you? I guess you might when and if
> it impacts your livelihood. Until then, it's just "too bad for the other
> guy."

Well, the answer to your question is "yes, I do care."

But I was mainly speaking of the workers in China.

It's interesting that the rise of China as an economic power has been in
lockstep with not only an era of boom times in the West, but also of
(for most economies, and the US especially) an era of historically low
unemployment.

In other words, the displaced employees are doing something.

I shan't speak for what, but note that the recent trend has been for
companies like Toyota to be very happy with their US manufacturing
facilities.

Perhaps more importantly, there's an awful lot of top-quality design and
engineering work being done in the West. Indeed, what we deride as "made
in China" junk is often designed in China, or designed badly, or built
in the second-rate factories, or whatever.

Meanwhile, the good stuff is designed by top-flight designers, probably
living in North America or Europe (or Oz/NZ...). It's still built in
China, but by the better kind of factories, and with closer management.

> I don't know about Dahon's customer service, but the people at Bike Friday
> are terrific. They even sell other, smaller items for less than many
> retailers. If you doubt this, check out their prices for Thomson seat posts
> or SPD pedals. In the meantime, you can tell yourself that you are glad you
> settled for second best.

My folding bikes are:

1) 20"-wheeled "Auto Mini" with Sachs Duomatic kickback-shifting hub.
2) 1970 Graziella 20"-wheeled tandem with Sturmey Archer drum brakes and
3-speed hub gear.

I have settled for 138th and 247th best.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

 

[Andrew Price]

On 21 Apr 2007 16:37:29 -0700, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:

[---]

>But the really annoying thing about Dahon is how 'green' they claim to
>be, on their website. Anyone who knows anything about global pollution
>knows that Chinese cities and industrial areas are the cesspools of
>the world, basically unlivable by American standards.

Isn't the Dahon factory in Taiwan, rather than mainland China?

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 22, 10:49 am, Andrew Price <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 21 Apr 2007 16:37:29 -0700, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> [---]
>
> >But the really annoying thing aboutDahonis how 'green' they claim to
> >be, on their website. Anyone who knows anything about global pollution
> >knows that Chinese cities and industrial areas are the cesspools of
> >the world, basically unlivable by American standards.
>
> Isn't theDahonfactory in Taiwan, rather than mainland China?

Dahon has factories in many different places... including Europe,
Taiwan....China is only one of them.
I know people that work for Dahon... they are not only creating jobs
in China, Europe, South America... but have offices and are bringing
jobs to the States.
The art director and graphic designer works in one of the biggest
hippy towns in the U.S.... Arcata, CA. You can't be more green than
that.

Dahon's mission is to constantly strive to be more green than it is
every year... their far from perfect (who is? ok, ok patagonia is
close), but they are always trying to make conscious decisions about
impact and sustainability... Heck, making bikes in general is about as
green as you can get.

Here is a project that they are currently working on with Tom
Ritchey ... they produce the bikes for this but make no profit on
them:
http://www.projectrwanda.org/index.php

I know personally that they are involved in others charity programs
and constantly looking for more...

So they are trying.
I think its best to do some real research before disparaging a company
and boycotting them... just because they have factories in China.

Guys this is globalization... its here whether you like it or not...
lets just hope that these companies utilizing the manpower of the
Chinese workforce are giving back... and we as a nation better start
figuring how we are going to compete in the future... (investment in
sustainable living, education and health could be a start... not
investment in old ideologies and war)

s.