Bike handling

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by cyclintom, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. BrianNystrom

    BrianNystrom Member

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    Hmmm. I thought you were gone, cyclintom. That didn't last for long!

    Campybob, as far as the Q-factor goes, I was just curious why you said it was difficult to measure. I don't actually see a whole lot of point in measuring it.

    Anyone that would leave an "air gap" in a Hirth joint gets what they deserve. ;)
     
    CAMPYBOB likes this.


  2. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    I decided that I'd give PansyBob back just what he deserves.

    It was pretty clear to me that in that one posting Alf got the numbers reversed and PansyBob was using his usual idiotic crap of trying to act superior because of a misstatement. This is what people with psychological issues do to try to feed their inadequacies. Imagine the best sprinter in the world was paid to ride a flexy flier aluminum bike and he won some sprints on it and therefore that means it was a good frame in the eyes of that moron riding his video game.

    The Vitus was awful handling and I'm riding with a guy now that still uses his. But he isn't about to praise it.

    Depending on the course the various kinds of steel were good. Lemond had his bikes custom made with Reynolds Tubing. The early ones with 351 but the later stuff he went to 853 so he could make them a tad lighter for climbing. Then he would take awful chances descending.

    The early carbon fiber was perfectly awful handling. The Colnago Precision is WAY heavier than my Ridley cross bike. And my Redline cross bike is lighter still.

    I'm want to hear more from PansyBob about hydroforming Titanium. That was a good one. Titanium bikes have two kinds of tubing - seamless tubing of one mix of titanium and another slightly stiffer mix that is a solid sheet rolled into a tube and welded. These tubes are not double butted for a reason - you cannot form or bend them without a REAL expensive process and hydroforming isn't practical. The welded tubes require heat relieving. Some companies used to bend the chain stays to be out of the way of the tires. This was an EXTREMELY involved process that required heat relieving, bending some more, heat relieving etc. until they got to the target shape. I don't know if anyone still does that. But according to PansyBob you can hydroform a material that will split and be useless.

    And PansyBob thinks that a Chinese knockoff is a good idea. I buy Chinese knockoffs of Zipp wheels. It normally takes two or three returns before I get one that doesn't fail during inflation. Hopefully they're improving but buying a knock-off for a frame is just the sort of thing I would expect from PansyBob. But he is safe with his rollers and video game.

    I was using deep aero Campy wheels and they were REALLY scary. When I went to the Chinese wheels they were making real aero sections and not a deep-V. These were no more scary in shifting gusts than a normal MA-2 rim. And they do work well. They use a basalt brake pad that wear out pretty fast but they don't seem to wear the brake surfaces very much. I have about 500 miles on the brakes and have ordered new pads. On the aluminum wheels with the extra-sticky rubber pads the damn rims wear out.

    Of course PansyBob doesn't have problems like this because he doesn't ride with the wind in his face and brakes that have to work. He rides a video game that tells him he has climbed almost twice what I have.
     
  3. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    It's not difficult to measure, bur fairly difficult for the average Joe to measure accurately. And yes, there is certainly no reason to measure it at all.

    Riding it loose?! Only an idiot would even suggest it was a possibility!
     
  4. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    tommy, the liar even lies about leaving in a Rage Quit. FOUR times! LMAO!

    Miss statement, huh??? Like you, old Alf defended his lame idiocy over and over and over, you dipshit. That's NOT a simple error. It's insanity. The same, exact type of insanity to exhibit.

    And it's 531, you moron. Not "351".

    And your Colnago is a Chinese knockoff! LMFAO!

    Hydro forming Ti. https://www.google.com/search?q=tit...me..69i57j0.6031j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 tommy, you are the very definition of the classic moron. Is there ANYTHING you can't get wrong? Anything at all?

    Please. Just go away and stop embarrassing yourself further. You've long passed the point being just another of life's jerks and have entered the realm of dweebdom.
     
  5. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    You dumb ass idiot. That hydroforming is for small parts that can be heat treated afterward and not your ignorant idea of titanium bicycle frames being hydroformed. On your smartest day you cant live up to the standard of a fool.

    I already told you. I will be here for the rest of your life pointing out that the entire capacity of your mind is to lie because you're a nobody and so you have to stoop to crying about a typo. You have a midget mentality indeed.
     
  6. BrianNystrom

    BrianNystrom Member

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    Did you even bother to look at the link he provided? Here's where one of the images takes you:
    https://road.cc/content/news/147-van-nicholas-astraeus-first-hydroformed-ti-bike-fixed-yukon
    That's a Ti frame made with hydroformed tubing, Tom. It may not be common, but it exists.

    You're also incorrect about butting and bending Ti tubing. I've got a Taiwanese 3/2.5 Ti hardtail frame that got highly shaped seatstays and chainstays, and it also has butted main tubes. Bikes Direct has been selling these under the Motobecane name the better part of a decade. Here's a link to a pic of the frame: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/29er-mountain-bikes/fly29-ti-frame-21.jpg

    Notice that there are exactly three straight tubes in the entire frame, the top tube, the chainstay brace and the disc-brake brace. Even the seat stay brace is curved! This is a price-point frame (~$600 for the frame only), not some high-end wonder bike. If you click on the pic to enlarge it, you can make out the word "butted" on the seat tube sticker.

    I also have a pair of ice-climbing tools with tubular Ti shafts that are both ovalized and bent along the major axis. They are made from seamless tubing, not formed from sheet stock. They were hand-made in a one-man shop over 30 years ago, so this is not some recent development. If it will make you happy, I can provide pics so you don't think I'm lying.

    If by "early carbon fiber", you mean bikes like my '77 Exxon-Graftek, yeah, it didn't handle well, as it was too flexible in my frame size (60cm, in this case). However, Aegis and Kestrel were making great-handling carbon fiber bikes back in the mid-1980's. I have a Giant-made frame from '94 that handles just fine (a private branded TCR-1). It's true that today's bikes are lighter, but that's true across all frame materials.

    Yes, modern, wide carbon rims are less susceptible to cross winds; that's well known. The quality of Chinese carbon rims is improving and we all know that. What's your point?

    I really wish you would both grow up and stop with the childish name calling. It's certainly not helping this forum, as little or no value comes from these ridiculous pissing contests. Why don't you guys meet somewhere and have yourselves a good old-fashioned fistfight to get it out of your system. Then go out an have a couple of beers while you lick your wounds. That would be a win for everyone. ;)
     
  7. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    A friend in the local club bought one of the first Kestrels to hit the market. It's still being ridden today.

    Lemond won the TdF on a carbon frame in 1986.

    tommy's full of shit, as usual.

    Both Litespeed and Lynskey made and still make frames from hydroformed tubes.

    That helical downtube on the Helix model is a work of art! Oh wait! The resident expert on every subject told us you just do that kind of thing.

    Frankly, a moron that's dead wrong on every subject he posts about isn't worth the time of day, but I'm hving a Hellova good time laughing at him!

    Hey tommy! How does it feel having me live, rent free, in your empty skull?! LMAO!
     
  8. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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  9. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    The one is labeled "The World's First" and the hydroforming is at the end where it can be heat treated rapidly. I suspect that the hydroforming is on the flat sheet before it's rolled. You aren't going to be seeing much of this and I expect the only reason is to be different. Watch how long they're around.

    I said that the chain and seat stays were bent but done in stages and heat relieved before the next stage. This is titanium, not steel. Even after welding sometimes they do not properly heat relieve it and the frame cracks around the welds. We have one of the guys in the group that gave me that "oh you don't know what you're talking about." And on the second ride I pointed out a crack just above the top tube weld at the head tube. Now that was right in front of him and he couldn't see it because he didn't expect it.
     
  10. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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  11. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    What a retard you are...

    That info was from 2016. Old news on a new method of applying BOTH hydroforming AND swaging to achieve a tube that is both shaped and butted.

    Jeezus. You completely retarded. They've been building frames with that type of forming process ever since. As have others.

    How the Hell can it be that you even remember to breathe and waste more oxygen?


    The latest titanium tube set from REILLY Cycleworks is a progressive Hydro Formed and taper swaged 3AL2.5V offering, which will be launched at Bespoked in our all new do it all frame. Audax/Tour/CX and gravel, all in one, quite possibly the only bike you will ever need. Thru axle, disc braked, internal cabling and of course the Hydro Formed multi shaped tube set, which takes titanium performance to another level.

    Hydroforming allows us to utilise stiffness enhancing tube shapes and profiles that were never possible with round tubes.

    Hydroforming is a metal forming process that allows the creation of seamless and complex metal shaping for a variety of different shapes of tubes. The process can be applied to a wide variety of materials but in particular; Titanium.
     
  12. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Here's one of several Lynskey frames with hydroformed tubes. It's NOT a new process and evidently you are the only retard on the planet that lies and says it can't be done.

    You're an asshat moron, for sure. Go play with yourself and Rage Quit for a fifth time soon.

    Limited Edition M390 120mm Travel Hardtail 29er, Geometry specifically made for 120mm travel fork with Sag factored in, Hydro-formed Downtube, Sliding Dropouts - Includes an Industrial Mill Finish and Limited Edition Graphics. Available as Frameset ($2810) or Complete ($4849).

    [​IMG]
     
  13. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Cycling Weekly also calls you a liar!

    "Titanium tubesets can be cold drawn as well as being hydroformed, like aluminium alloy. So although titanium frames may come with round main tubes with external cable routing, tubesets can have other shapes and allow internal cabling too. An extreme example of this is Lynskey’s Helix framesets, which use helically twisted tubing that Lynskey says helps to resist torsional forces."

    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/group-tests/titanium-bikes-383631
     
  14. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Reilly Gradient with hydroformed tubing:

    https://www.reillycycleworks.com/products/gradient-complete

    "The REILLY Gradient is an unprecedented engineering achievement. Combining a Hydro-formed REILLY AXIS 3AL-2.5V titanium tube set with our hugely flexible geometry, Mark Reilly/Damon Fisher designed and all in a package of pure indulgence."

    Just STFU moron. You're a loser tard. You're a joke.
     
  15. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Then tell us PansyBob - why don't you buy one. You can put it into your ID picture and show it off to everyone.
     
  16. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    WTF? That last crash killed your last brain cell!

    Tell us more about Ti can't be hydroformed, moron dipshit.
     
  17. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Then why don't you buy one? Everyone is waiting breath abated to discover how well a hydroformed titanium bike climbs on your video game.
     
  18. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Then why did you you LIE and state that Ti could not be hydroformed???

    Just one more lie from a pathological liar that lives in a fantasy world. You're an asshole. And a stupid asshole at that.

    You can't even stay on topic. A topic you know nothing about.

    You've NEVER posted 'actual figures'. Those come from a power meter and a complete data file. You have neither.

    This idiocy of yours has long passed the point of insanity on your part! It's so far out of the realm of reality that I can't stop laughing at how dumb you really are about cycling, training and power. That thump on the noggin must have really fried you!

    And you the lie some more by claiming it was a "mistake"!!! LMAO! One hellova "mistake" for a guy that invented everything but the light bub and lived by numbers! Huh?!?!

    Than you claimed the average Joe vet could do EIGHT HUNDRED WATTS! For an hour!!!! LMFAO!

    Nope, dumbass. That was no "mistake". That was YOU lying your ass off repeatedly.

    Mistake? Nope. It wasn't a "mistake". It was a blatant lie and one that you repeated over and over. Then you tried to claim the average vet rider could make 800 Watts! LMFAO!

    You had every chance to correct your "mistake" and yet you did NOT! You continued to argue, like the dumb fuck that you are, that you made 600 Watts. For an entire HOUR!

    Instead of admitting that you lied and had no idea how little power you actually make you continued to lie like the little bitch that you are.

    C'mon little bitch. Let's see that power file that proves you can make 300 Watts for an hour! LMAO! Hell, post up your data file that proves your fat fucking ass can make 300 Watts for 20 minutes!

    Keep lying, moron. You NEVER, EVER made 600 Watts.

    Not for the hour that you claimed and then repeatedly claimed.

    Not for 20 minutes.

    Not for 10 minutes.

    Not for 5 minutes.

    Not even for ONE stinking minute of your miserable, lying life.

    And yet here you are.

    STILL defending your lying ass.

    With EVERY post you make you reinforce the fact that you lied to a man that came to the board seeking advice. You lied to everyone that read that thread. More importantly, you lied to yourself over and over after being exposed as a fake.

    Man up, dickhead and apologize for your lying.
     
  19. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Yup, believe everything that Tom says, is the foremost expert on cycling in the WORLD, he has even written thousands of books on the subject, he has raced the Tour De France for many years and was the olderst person to do so because of his incredible ability to do 600 watts for an hour at the age of 60! He was also a professional motorcycle racer, and world recognized MC mechanic, he has raced world class racing yachts, and served on the board as president of the Yacht racing association, on top of that he was a world class boxer who has NEVER lost a fight, and won all those fights by knockout and still knocks out people today, served in the military and was labeled the toughest person to ever serve in the Air Force, and has piloted the fastest fighters as well as top secret aircraft, he is also a world recognized and honored scientist. So yes you have better believe everything that Tom says about cycling because he is the worlds foremost cyclist's ever, and we are just peons in his sight...
     
  20. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    I can't understand is why Tom thinks that Bob needs to buy a TI bike, the discussion isn't about Bob buying or owning a TI bike, the subject was Tom's denial of hydro-formed TI tubes, not about whether or not Bob owns one, owning a TI bike doesn't make you the grand master of TI knowledge, get a grip Tom, and while you're at it learn something for once so you don't sound like a blooming idiot all the time.

    I have new title for Tom...the undisputed champion of idiocracy! Hail to the champion.
     
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