Bike handling

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by cyclintom, Oct 24, 2018.

  1. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Huh? what does the winter of 2018 have to do with Alberto Contador when he was racing? That was an odd statement, must be the dope talking...again.
     


  2. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    If you look at that article that PansyBob submitted it was from 2013. To suggest that the technology hasn't changed shows you what lengths PansyBob is willing to go to. Just as his posting of pictures of failed carbon fiber wheels. You could see in several of those pictures that the failures were from being hit. While investigating carbon fiber frames after my failure I found extremely few actual failures. Almost all of them were from being struck by something or being crashed. I emailed one guy who inferred that his rather massive failure was from the material and his response was - "that car barely touched me".
     
  3. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Sure you did...rrrriiiigggghhhhtttt!!!

    Just like Contadope rode tubeless tires! What a jerk.

    Say...with your bazillion MBPS connection maybe you can find yourself a brain. And some character to go with it.
     
  4. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    The worm squirms again. Isn't it time for you to use another bunch of initials? You still have time to climb l'Alpe d'Huez a couple of times before 5 pm on your video game.
     
  5. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Show the e-mail CycleTom.
     
  6. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    tommy got da fiber optic "light cable"!

    LIGHT CABLE?!?!?! Da Hell?

    WTF is LIGHT CABLE???

    And his AIDS infected 'puter is da fastest bestest 'puter of them all!

    Another lie!

    Lying at the speed of light! That's tommy, all right!

    LMFAO!

    I can't wait to see the email he fakes! LOL! What a moron!
     
    #66 CAMPYBOB, Nov 12, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  7. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    At the busiest time of day:
    Ping
    <1 ms
    Download
    107.09 Mbps
    Upload
    106.12 Mbps

    Tell us Pansy - do you have these sorts of speeds? I could pay more and get 10 times faster speeds but why? I can download movies in realtime.
     
  8. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    The speed at which you lie is even faster.
     
  9. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    It is certainly easy to show you what a stupid ass you are. There is nothing in your brain to hide your lack of IQ.
     
  10. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Go back two pages to where you're telling the world that Titanium can't be hydroformed, you moron POS liar.

    Then go back to your retarded lie that you made 600 Watts for an HOUR and apologize for being a liar.
     
  11. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Less Internet traffic at this time:
    Ping ms
    5
    Download Mbps
    126.02

    Upload Mbps
    122.31
     
  12. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    From the avatars I've been changing for the last several weeks you can see that I've had every sort of bike and material made.

    Contrary to stupid comments from stupid people, prior to 2009 I owned a Colnago Bititan and a Colnago Oval Master and I didn't like them because they were so stiff.

    However, the Time VX Elite carbon fiber bike I presently own was completely un-rideable with 23 mm tires. But when re-assembled I put 28 mm tires on it and it was a total transformation and now rides extremely well. So perhaps if there were room for fatter tires in those titanium bikes they would ride good as well. But the C40 and my present CLX 3.0 didn't have room for 28's. 25's were the largest possible to mount.

    The C40 split the fork end from hitting a hard bump with the high pressure 23's on it and I suspect I would not have had this problem with the larger capacity 25's

    The CLX 3.0 with 25 mm Vittoria Corsa G+ tires on it is fantastic. I've never ridden a bike that rides this well. I used to have to set up for high speed turns in the 35-40 mph range and use my entire lane. But with the CLX I simply ride around the turns. I don't know how much of this is the frame and fork and how much is the Vittoria tires. The next experiment is tubeless 25's since the clinchers are just a little stiff for our roads. I have the wheels sitting here and the tires are on the way. Vittoria's latest racing tire is recommended to be used tubeless.

    I had been using Gatorskins because of the rotten roads covered with broken glass. Then I went to Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires and was quite surprised that you can actually feel the lower rolling resistance. The Gatorskins are quite famous for having sidewall cuts causing flats but the Michelin armor layer goes from bead to bead. I tried the Michelin Power Endurance tires that are suppose to have lower rolling resistance still but they felt to me much slower.

    The Vittoria tires I'm using have over 500 miles on them and I'm 180 lbs and ride them hard and they are not showing wear although they are supposed to be racing tires and I would have expected a life of only 1,500 miles or so. This was about all I was getting with Gatorskins that were supposed to be high mileage tires. But as I say, I ride them hard. I haven't gotten a single flat on the Vittoria tires even though the only "armor" they have is the graphene layer only 6-8 atoms thick. They seem to have impeccable cornering even though they have tread and hence lower contact patch.

    So the modern CF bikes that more completely spread the loads on the frame and fork appear to be very much more controllable and I suspect much more reliable since all of the normal stress points have been redesigned with greater area to give lower stresses and more reliability.

    And the Vittoria tires which show the lowest rolling resistance in tests seem to me at this point to also have as much reliability as previous supposedly high mileage tires.
     
    #72 cyclintom, Nov 15, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  13. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    OMG...the only reason tommy rides his tires "hard" is because of his flab killing them.

    6 to 8 "atoms" thick! LMFAO!
     
  14. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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  15. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    You idiot. It could be hardened tool steel for all it matters. At 6 'atoms' thickness you could penetrate it thumbtack and two fingers.

    What kind of dipshit believes that marketing hype.

    Oh yeah.

    The same retarded dipshit that claims Titanium can not be hydroformed.

    tommy, you're a moron. A retarded, lying moron.
     
  16. dabac

    dabac Well-Known Member

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    Haven't you claimed an engineering background?
    The Young's modulus (basically how much a material will stretch for a given load and cross-section) of Ti is roughly half that of steel.
    Meaning that Ti is pretty much twice as stretchy as steel.
    To make a Ti frame in the proportions of a steel frame behave like a steel frame, you'd need to use tubing that'd allow for double the cross section area.
    To make if stiff, you'd need even more material.
    It'd negate a fair chunk of the weight advantage you'd get from using Ti.
    Early Ti frames were often made from standard tube diameters and wall thicknesses, which resulted in very flexy frames.
    Luckily they were still perceived good enough to generate enough interest for industry to start producing Ti tubing in diameter/wall thickness combos that were more suited for bicycle frames.
    Still, to make a stiff Ti frame, you either need to use a prohibitive amount of material, or a fairly driven frame/tubing design.
    It's entirely possible to make a stiff Ti frame, but given the stretchiness of the base material, it'd take some effort.
    Simple engineering restraints (amount of material used, difficulty/number of process stages required) suggests that flexy Ti frames are more likely than stiff Ti frames.

    Aluminum frames do tend to be stiff.
    Don't have to be, but tend to be.
    Aluminium, as opposed to steel and Ti has a definite fatigue limit.
    It has to be stiff to survive.
    Let it flex "too much" and it'll eat into the working life fairly quick.
    It'd be no problem to engineer a smooth riding Al frame - if you were allowed to put a "retire at xx miles" sticker on it.
    Might not go down that well with the customers...
     
  17. cyclintom

    cyclintom Well-Known Member

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    Really, what does Young's Modulus have to do with proper frame design?

    Aluminum has 25% the strength of Steel and about the same as titanium alloys. So a properly designed frame in any materials can be made stiff as necessary. I owned an Eddy Merckx Al frame that was so stiff you could barely stand to sit on it. I had two Colnago Ti frames that were famous for being very stiff.

    As for fatigue resistance? Steel has the worst and you don't see steel breaking very often do you? The other materials normally break from faulty design practices that you find in any material that is new to the use it's new to. Carbon Fiber was especially vulnerable to these failures because they immediately tried to make super-light components before fully understanding many things such as resin problems and molding techniques, It now appears to be maturing and these bikes are really good.
     
  18. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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  19. dabac

    dabac Well-Known Member

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    Quote from here:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit

    Ferrous alloys ...have a distinct limit, called the endurance limit... below which there appears to be no number of cycles that will cause failure.

    ...Aluminium ....do not have a distinct limit and will eventually fail even from small stress amplitudes.

    How can this make steel "the worst"?

    Never said that it couldn't. Only that materials properties and engineering restraints makes it easier/more likely that a Ti frame comes out flexy.

    In engineering terms, that statement makes about as much sense as writing "What does the flammability of gasoline has to do with the risk of fuel fires?"

    So either you didn't understand what I wrote, or you choose to ignore it, or you're being knee-jerk contrary. Which is it?
     
  20. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Ti by its nature is flexy. Litespeed at one time made a bike called the Classic because it used the classic diameter tubing that steel bikes used, this bike was very flexy, some people called it comfortable, and to a low power rider it was, but when I tried it I hated it, it was about as bad as a Peugeot PX10's I tried, maybe worse? All I know is that thing when I cranked hard had the bottom bracket flexing so much that the chain rubbed both sides of the front derailleur, and the rear would ghost shift as well as the wheel hitting both sides of the brake pads. This is why modern Ti bikes are built with oversize tubing to prevent that flex, and the ultra performance ones will use 6AL-4V on the top tube and headset to help prevent flexing a bit more...BUT that tubing also does not have the fatigue life that the 3-2.5 tubing has, so they put it in less flex areas of the frame yet it still has a mild effect at stiffening the frame while preserving the life of the frame. My Peloton because it's not the highest end bike that Lynskey made, and it's a sport bike not a racing bike, does not use 6-4 tubing anywhere which is fine with me because it's plenty stiff and no matter how hard I try to mash it I can't get any rubbing nor any noticeable flexing that would bother me.
     
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