Bike I.D.



The thief can simply say that he/she also has the
special modifications that you would argue prove the
bike belongs to you.

You cannot ask the police to take the suspected thief, or
his property, into custody, just because you suspect the
bike is yours. Not only is the onus of proof entirely on
your shoulders, but you have to prove it is yours without
violating the rights of the other individual. Just imagine
what the world would be like if this were not the case.
People would be pointing the finger like babies saying "he
stole it" all the time.

Unless of course you could convince a judge to take the
suspect into questioning, but that would be unlikely.

cheers,

C3

> Why wouldn't it be enough? How else do you get stuff back?
 
cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote in message
[email protected]

[...]

> Timely story from CNN: GPS bicycles used to bait thieves
> Wednesday, March 10, 2004 Posted: 11:58 AM EST (1658 GMT)
> http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/03/10/bikes.gps1.reut/
>
> AMSTERDAM, Holland (Reuters) -- Amsterdam police will use
> bicycles equipped with hidden GPS transmitters to bait
> thieves and track them down in the latest effort to stamp
> out rampant bike theft, a police spokesman said Tuesday.

Having lived in Amsterdam I can only wish them luck. If
you've never been there you have no idea what bicycle theft
is all about. :)

--

"I'm proud that I live in a country where witnessing two
hours of bloody, barbarous torture in gloating detail is
considered indicia of religious piety, whereas a mere second
gazing upon a woman's breast is cause for outraged
apoplexy." Betty Bowers,
http://www.bettybowers.com/melgibsonpassion.html
 
>Originally posted by C3
>The thief can simply say that he/she also has the
>special modifications that you would argue prove the
>bike belongs to you.

Hang on...
I spot some guy riding a bike (my bike) with my name
down the side and that isn't enough for a judge to
get me my bike back? If he had the same name, fair
enough, I could see a problem, but come on! It has
my name on it! How else do you recover stolen stuff?

>You cannot ask the police to take the suspected thief,
>or his property, into custody, just because you suspect
>the bike is yours.

Why not? How do I get my bike back then, short of
beating the thief to a pulp and taking it by force or
"stealing" it back?

>Not only is the onus of proof entirely
>on your shoulders, but you have to prove it is yours
>without violating the rights of the other individual.

Call Police, inform them that my stolen bike is being
ridden by "that guy" and have him arrested?
What about a citizens arrest (if that even exists)?

>Just imagine what the world would be like if this
>were not the case. People would be pointing the
>finger like babies saying "he stole it" all the time.

Only if they actually thought it was their stuff. This
sounds totally ridiculous - if it's "mine" then I should
be able to get it back without trouble.

>Unless of course you could convince a judge to take
>the suspect into questioning, but that would be
>unlikely.

Why would I need the judge to question them? Why
can't the police arrest them and THEN the judge
can question them?
Don't people who sell stolen gear get caught and
punished?

confused...
 
>>>>> "DRS" == drs <[email protected]> writes:

DRS> cfsmtb <[email protected]> wrote in
DRS> message [email protected]

DRS> [...]

>> Timely story from CNN: GPS bicycles used to bait
>> thieves Wednesday, March 10, 2004 Posted: 11:58 AM
>> EST (1658 GMT) http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/03-
>> /10/bikes.gps1.reut/
>>
>> AMSTERDAM, Holland (Reuters) -- Amsterdam police will
>> use bicycles equipped with hidden GPS transmitters to
>> bait thieves and track them down in the latest effort
>> to stamp out rampant bike theft, a police spokesman
>> said Tuesday.

DRS> Having lived in Amsterdam I can only wish them
DRS> luck. If you've never been there you have no idea
DRS> what bicycle theft is all about. :)

Amen.

--
Euan
 
> Hang on... I spot some guy riding a bike (my bike) with my
> name down the side and that isn't enough for a judge to
> get me my bike back?

Having your name there would be different to having some
markings which you claim you put on. I suppose if you
give the police enough information, they may follow it
up for you.

> >You cannot ask the police to take the suspected thief, or
> >his property, into custody, just because you suspect the
> >bike is yours.
>
> Why not? How do I get my bike back then, short of beating
> the thief to a pulp and taking it by force or "stealing"
> it back?

If the police have enough resources, they will investigate
it for you. As far as I know, it's illegal (and possibly
dangerous) for you to forcefully take it back. If you are in
this position, I would recommend talking to the police about
it, so you can recover it lawfully.

> Call Police, inform them that my stolen bike is being
> ridden by "that guy" and have him arrested? What about a
> citizens arrest (if that even exists)?

I am not so sure how this works, but I doubt the police
would arrest someone on a mere allegation. Have you thought
about what the world would be like if you could do this?
There have been periods in history where this *was* the
case. They were not pleasant times.

> Only if they actually thought it was their stuff.

What if it looks exactly like your bike, and you see someone
suspect. Would you instantly assume it is yours? Are you
going to assume that they are guilty? Democracy does not
work like this.

> This sounds totally ridiculous - if it's "mine" then I
> should be able to
get it back without trouble.

Of course you should. But you have to be able to prove it is
yours, and convince someone from law enforcement to follow
it up for you. Taking the law into your own hands can land
you into trouble, even if you are trying to correct a wrong.

> Why would I need the judge to question them? Why can't the
> police arrest them and THEN the judge can question them?
> Don't people who sell stolen gear get caught and punished?

Both would probably not happen. I suspect that the police
would arrest the person, and then question them and decide
whether to charge them. But they are not going to arrest
someone unless they suspect they have committed a crime.
Therefore, your job would be to convince them of this.

cheers,

C3
 
>>>>> "gned" == gned <C3> writes:

First we have:

hippy> Hang on... I spot some guy riding a bike (my
hippy> bike) with my name down the side and that isn't
hippy> enough for a judge to get me my bike back?

gned> Having your name there would be different to
gned> having some markings which you claim you put on. I
gned> suppose if you give the police enough information,
gned> they may follow it up for you.

Then we have:

hippy> Only if they actually thought it was their stuff.

gned> What if it looks exactly like your bike, and you
gned> see someone suspect. Would you instantly assume it
gned> is yours? Are you going to assume that they are
gned> guilty? Democracy does not work like this.

You're moving the goal posts to suit your argument. Hippy's
already stated that this bike is uniquely identifiable to
him. If you go to the police with info such as that then
they will follow it up.

--
Cheers Euan
 
I am not doing anything of the sort. First "individual
markings" were mentioned, and later a name. If a bike is
uniquely identifiable, I believe it depends how uniquely
identifiable it is.

cheers,

C3

> You're moving the goal posts to suit your argument.
> Hippy's already stated that this bike is uniquely
> identifiable to him. If you go to the police with info
> such as that then they will follow it up.
>
> --
> Cheers Euan
 
>Originally posted by C3
>hippy once writed:
> > Hang on... I spot some guy riding a bike (my bike) with my
> > name down the side and that isn't enough for a judge to
> > get me my bike back?
>
>Having your name there would be different to having
>some markings which you claim you put on. I suppose
>if you give the police enough information, they may
>follow it up for you.

Okay fair enough.. Time to get my name on my bike ;)

>> Why not? How do I get my bike back then, short of beating
>> the thief to a pulp and taking it by force or "stealing"
>> it back?
>>
>If the police have enough resources, they will investigate
>it for you. As far as I know, it's illegal (and possibly
>dangerous) for you to forcefully take it back. If you are
>in this position, I would recommend talking to the police
>about it, so you can recover it lawfully.

I'm not in this position but this thread got me a bit
worried. If I was in this position I would try every
legal means until I recovered _my_ bike, _then_ it
would turn illegal ;)

.. and all this started with bike id :)

cheers!
 
I don't think a small transmitter like the one I described
would be a bad idea at all. It would definitely be
defeatable, but it may help lead you to find your bike
before the thief has had the chance to remove the device.

cheers,

C3

> . and all this started with bike id :)
 
"John Doe" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Since I like canyoning and the like I was always thinking
> of buying an EPIRB or whatever they are called but if
> there is something with better range that uses VHF then it
> sounds like a waste of money driven by media hype.
>

The most common EPIRBs around narrow the search area to a
radius of about 20km. The newer ones, which operate at a
different frequency, narrow the search radius to around 4-
5km. Still one hell of an area. However it is possible to
get newer ones which have some level of GPS capability and
these transmit your position along with the normal EPIRB
signal (whatever that is). This narrows the search to a few
metres/tens of metres. Naturally, they aren't cheap; around
AU$2000 is the price I've seen for a "pocket" one. You'd
need big pockets though, firstly to carry the cash to
purchase it, then afterwards to carry the EPIRB :)

Graeme
 
On Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:42:44 GMT, Jose Rizal <_@_._> wrote:

>Graeme:
>
>> I've got one of these in my bike which I bought when I
>> lived in the UK. The one I have is a DataTag
>> <www.datatag.com>. It is unpowered but emits a radio
>> signal with a code when the relevant equipment is held
>> close to it.
>
>This is more of an ID system than a locator system, is that
>right? How close does the scanner have to be to detect the
>transponder?

If it's anything like microchips (as used for animal ID) the
scanner needs to be less than 2 cm from the chip for
reliable pickup.

---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no
stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]
 
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:51:03 +1100, "C3"
<[email protected])> wrote:

>I am not doing anything of the sort. First "individual
>markings" were mentioned, and later a name. If a bike is
>uniquely identifiable, I believe it depends how uniquely
>identifiable it is.

"unique" means "one of a kind" as in "there is no
other like it".

---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no
stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]
 
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:00:09 +0000, hippy wrote:

>>Having your name there would be different to having some
>>markings which you claim you put on. I suppose if you
>>give the police enough information, they may follow it up
>>for you.
>
> Okay fair enough.. Time to get my name on my bike ;)

You could spit down the seat tube, ID your bike by DNA! Only
it's dry up, so you might have to do it daily, of course if
you *really* loved you bike, you'd _bleed_ on it - ahh...
you've done that already hippy ;)

-kt
 
On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:34:42 +1100, C3 wrote:

> I am not so sure how this works, but I doubt the police
> would arrest someone on a mere allegation. Have you
> thought about what the world would be like if you could do
> this? There have been periods in history where this *was*
> the case. They were not pleasant times.

Well this is exactly what we signed up WRT copyright with
the 'free' (as in slaves) trade agreepment with the seppos.
Plain old _suspicion_ of copyright infringement by a
copyright holder is enough to get a private warrant to
search your house.

-kt
 

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