Bike lane slated as only five use it at rush hour

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Wallace Shackle

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http://www.news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=7932004

Bike lane slated as only five use it at rush hour

JASON CUMMING AND ALAN MCEWEN

A CYCLE lane built in Edinburgh at a cost of £30,000 has been slammed after an audit found just five
riders using it at a peak time.

The cycle track in Wester Hailes Road was built as part of a Scottish Executive drive to get more
people to travel by bikes.
--
Wallace Shackleton,

Kinross, Scotland.

Cycling in Kinross-shire www.cyclekinross.org.uk

Perth & Kinross Cycle Campaign www.bycycle.org.uk
 
Wallace Shackleton wrote:

> http://www.news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=7932004
>
> Bike lane slated as only five use it at rush hour
>
> JASON CUMMING AND ALAN MCEWEN
>
> A CYCLE lane built in Edinburgh at a cost of £30,000 has been slammed after an audit found just
> five riders using it at a peak time.
>
> The cycle track in Wester Hailes Road was built as part of a Scottish Executive drive to get more
> people to travel by bikes.

Fair enough - I don't want cycle lanes either.
 
"Wallace Shackleton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> http://www.news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=7932004
>
> Bike lane slated as only five use it at rush hour
>
> JASON CUMMING AND ALAN MCEWEN
>
> A CYCLE lane built in Edinburgh at a cost of £30,000 has been slammed after an audit found just
> five riders using it at a peak time.
>
> The cycle track in Wester Hailes Road was built as part of a Scottish Executive drive to get more
> people to travel by bikes.
> --
> Wallace Shackleton,
>
> Kinross, Scotland.
>
> Cycling in Kinross-shire www.cyclekinross.org.uk
>
> Perth & Kinross Cycle Campaign www.bycycle.org.uk
>

Which just goes to show how little they understand the issues.....and, of course, the problem will
be seen to lie with 'other people' who haven't rushed, in their thousands, to make use of this
marvellous new facility,, provided, very kindly, at great expense etcetc..... Dave.
 
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 15:17:58 +0000, Wallace Shackleton
<[email protected]> wrote:

>A CYCLE lane built in Edinburgh at a cost of £30,000 has been slammed after an audit found just
>five riders using it at a peak time.

And I bet they blame the cyclists for not using the shiny new facility, rather than the goon who
planned it without asking anybody if they wanted it there.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
 
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
> And I bet they blame the cyclists for not using the shiny new facility, rather than the goon who
> planned it without asking anybody if they wanted it there.
>

Unfortunately:

"Sandy Scotland, head of the planning group for SPOKES, an organisation which campaigns for better
conditions for cyclists, defended the scheme.

He said: "In many parts of the city there are cycle lanes which see a great deal of use.

Cycle usage is lower in the outer areas of Edinburgh than it is in the centre, but that will only
rise if these kind of facilities are provided.""

Tony
 
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 16:43:30 -0000, "Tony Raven"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Sandy Scotland, head of the planning group for SPOKES, an organisation which campaigns for better
>conditions for cyclists, defended the scheme.

But is that a post-hoc justification or were SPOKES part of the design process?

I did read a report from the Scottish parliament which IIRC concluded that cycle facilties had made
no measurable difference to the numbers of utility cycle journeys made.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
 
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
> But is that a post-hoc justification or were SPOKES part of the design process?
>

I'm not familiar with the campaign scene in Edinburgh but SPOKES claim to be the local campaign
group, they claim to be working closely with the Council and they seem to support these measures.
Perhaps someone local can illuminate.

Tony
 
Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> wrote:

: I did read a report from the Scottish parliament which IIRC concluded that cycle facilties had
: made no measurable difference to the numbers of utility cycle journeys made.

I'm always very suspicious of anything blanket like this, either pro or anti.

There are some very, very good cycle facilities in York. Bits for avoiding one-way systems, bridge
over the river, roads closed to cars but cut throughs for bikes, some good underpasses (yes, really)
to avoid some roundabouts on the ring road. These are all good and all useful for "proper" cyclists.

We have our share of the **** stuff as well obviously, but anyone that says "roads good, paths bad"
is being somewhat dogmatic.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org "Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook
 
"Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> >
> > But is that a post-hoc justification or were SPOKES part of the
design
> > process?
> >
>
> I'm not familiar with the campaign scene in Edinburgh but SPOKES claim
to be
> the local campaign group, they claim to be working closely with the
Council
> and they seem to support these measures. Perhaps someone local can illuminate.
>
> Tony
>
>

Spokes and SUSTRANS are the two main pressures on authorities, central and local, in Scotland. They
get a lot of support from the Scottish Executive.
 
Arthur Clune wrote:

> We have our share of the **** stuff as well obviously, but anyone that says "roads good, paths
> bad" is being somewhat dogmatic.

I cannot recall a single cycle facility in Southampton which is of any practical value at all.

Simonb
 
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:39:14 -0000, "Simonb"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I cannot recall a single cycle facility in Southampton which is of any practical value at all.

Neither can I, but one or two bits in Yord do have some merit. The problem lies with non-cyclists
who believe that facilities are necessary to make cycling safe (they aren't, but they are nice when
they make cycling safer), or who are seemingly motivated by the idea that bikes are obstructing the
flow of traffic and should be coerced into the gutter via a 6" wide green kleptonite stripe.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
 
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:39:14 -0000, "Simonb"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Arthur Clune wrote:
>
>> We have our share of the **** stuff as well obviously, but anyone that says "roads good, paths
>> bad" is being somewhat dogmatic.
>
>I cannot recall a single cycle facility in Southampton which is of any practical value at all.
>
>Simonb
>

en route to the hospital [as a car passenger] last week i was on Dale Rd [maybe]. a new-looking mini
roundabout had been put in at the bottom of the hill.

this would normally be a mixed blessing from a cyclist's pov; slows traffic but means you may have
to stop and lose your hill gained momentum at the roundabout.

however, there was a cycle lane coming down the hill and as the roundabout was only three armed
there was a seperate cyclist bypass allowing cyclists to both miss the queue and not lose speed.

seemed pretty good for a cycle lane, really. then again, the devil is in the detail with these
things and i might have seen it differently had i been on the bike.
 
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

> On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:39:14 -0000, "Simonb" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I cannot recall a single cycle facility in Southampton which is of any practical value at all.

For starters: Cycle light-controlled crossing of road outside southern side of Railway station -
quite useful to use to head towards the Royal Pier. Shame the route the other side then loses itself
up its rear end :-(

Then there's the Hythe Ferry itself - now that *is* a useful facility to have for cyclists.

Also the Uni buses that take cycles...

I am sure there are a few more.

John B
 
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 16:43:30 -0000 someone who may be "Tony Raven"
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>"Sandy Scotland, head of the planning group for SPOKES, an organisation which campaigns for better
>conditions for cyclists, defended the scheme.
>
>He said: "In many parts of the city there are cycle lanes which see a great deal of use.
>
>Cycle usage is lower in the outer areas of Edinburgh than it is in the >centre, but that will only
>rise if these kind of facilities are provided.""

Sandy undoubtedly spent many minutes talking the issues through with the journalist(s) and they then
"condensed" this to two sentences. The quotes might be fairly accurate, but are not a true
reflection of all the issues Sandy will have mentioned.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
 
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:23:45 -0000 someone who may be "Tony Raven"
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>> But is that a post-hoc justification or were SPOKES part of the design process?

Probably more of the former and more likely a general defence of cycling facilities than this
particular one. Although Edinburgh has some very stupid cycling "facilities" others are sensible
and useful.

>I'm not familiar with the campaign scene in Edinburgh but SPOKES claim to be the local
>campaign group,

The claim is an accurate one.

>they claim to be working closely with the Council

To the limit of time that people are prepared to spend voluntarily in giving free advice to
the Council.

Despite this the relationship is essentially one of trying to keep the Council from doing the daft
things it is prone to. For example everyone agreed that the correct place for the cycle lane on
Princes Street was on the right of the carriageway. However, without consulting any cycling
organisation, the Council suddenly decided to place it on the left for spurious reasons. The first
SPOKES knew of this was when they painted the stupid thing and the result has been years of
frustration for cyclists and bus drivers, plus years of danger for cyclists (caused by buses and
pedestrians) as cycles and buses swirl around.

>and they seem to support these measures. Perhaps someone local can illuminate.

Wester Hailes was designed on the assumption that everyone would drive everywhere. It had many car
parks that were largely used for football practice, though some of these have now been converted
into greenery. I doubt if there is any cycle storage in the flats. Those that manage to keep a bike
there are more likely to use other routes to reach most destinations. Except for Sighthill/South
Gyle there is little to be reached by the commuter cyclist along this road.

The most important facility for cyclists on Wester Hailes Road is the removal of one roundabout.
The "cycle lanes" are undoubtedly more to do with slowing motor vehicle drivers a bit than
helping cyclists.

The road is part of the recommended route for cyclists that parallels the city bypass. This was
argued for by SPOKES as a condition of banning cycling on the bypass, something they accepted with
heavy hearts. However, I doubt if this is a particular reason for the cycle lane.

Given the vast number of bus services and the reasons above I would not expect many cyclists to use
Wester Hailes Road

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
 
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 17:45:19 -0000 someone who may be "Geoff Pearson"
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>Spokes and SUSTRANS are the two main pressures on authorities, central and local, in Scotland.

Fine.

>They get a lot of support from the Scottish Executive.

SPOKES get no support from the Executive as far as I am aware, except (perhaps) for
specific projects.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.
 
On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 21:25:52 +0000, JohnB <[email protected]> wrote:

>Then there's the Hythe Ferry itself - now that *is* a useful facility to have for cyclists.

Never tried that, and I lived in Soton for 4 years. Ah well.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk
 
"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 21:25:52 +0000, JohnB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Then there's the Hythe Ferry itself - now that *is* a useful facility to have for cyclists.
>
> Never tried that, and I lived in Soton for 4 years. Ah well.

Brilliant way of getting over to the Forest missing out the awful road (and some abysmal examples of
cycle facilities) between the centre and Totton.

BTW the Hythe pier is presently being repaired due to being hit by a wayard dredger at the beginning
of November. A considerable section was demolished. Luckily no-one was injured. Ferries are going to
the new marina instead.

John B
 
JohnB wrote:
>
> BTW the Hythe pier is presently being repaired due to being hit by a wayard dredger at the
> beginning of November. A considerable section was demolished. Luckily no-one was injured. Ferries
> are going to the new marina instead.
>

That's probably good news. The end of pier was in an advanced stage of self demolition so at least
now someone might be paying to have it rebuilt. Must agree its a very nice service - served Hot X
buns to the passengers when I used it last Easter. Pity the IoW cats won't take bikes and you have
to use the car ferry instead.

Tony
 
JohnB wrote:

> Brilliant way of getting over to the Forest missing out the awful road (and some abysmal examples
> of cycle facilities) between the centre and Totton.

This is a very good idea. Next time I'll use it. I hate hate hate the stretch from Millbrook to
Totton. It really is appalling.

Simonb
 
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