Bike mech wanted to replace cables?

[Michael Pearlma]

[email protected] (Russell Yim) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> I usually replace all the cables when I tune up people's bikes. They're cheap (I charge $3.00 for
> stainless steel...if someone balks at that, I do have inferior galvanized ones for $1.00); no
> sense compromising safety over a few extra dollars, IMO. When I don't, it's when the cables look
> to be in nearly new condition. Housing I don't replace unless there was corrosion on the old
> cable, or there are cuts, abrasions, or kinks on the old housing. Other wear items I look at
> carefully are the tires, brake pads, and handlebar grips.
>
> I always tell customers upfront what I intend to replace during a tune-up. If I am not around to
> do the write-up, I have instructed staff to tell customers that approximately $20-30 in small
> parts _may_ be used in the repair of their bike

Outrageous! I've left cables on bikes for years and years with no ill effects. Bike shops that
replace them routinely are stealing from the customers. Revolt and learn to do it yourself when
necessary.

 

[Jobst Brandt]

Michael Pearlman writes:

>> I usually replace all the cables when I tune up people's bikes. They're cheap (I charge $3.00 for
>> stainless steel...if someone balks at that, I do have inferior galvanized ones for $1.00); no
>> sense compromising safety over a few extra dollars,
>> IMO. When I don't, it's when the cables look to be in nearly new condition. Housing I don't
>> replace unless there was corrosion on the old cable, or there are cuts, abrasions, or kinks
>> on the old housing. Other wear items I look at carefully are the tires, brake pads, and
>> handlebar grips.

>> I always tell customers up front what I intend to replace during a tune-up. If I am not around to
>> do the write-up, I have instructed staff to tell customers that approximately $20-30 in small
>> parts _may_ be used in the repair of their bike

> Outrageous! I've left cables on bikes for years and years with no ill effects. Bike shops that
> replace them routinely are stealing from the customers. Revolt and learn to do it yourself when
> necessary.

I know that this is a reasonable thing to do from the brake cable failures I have witnessed and
experienced once myself. I routinely, since the cable failure I had years ago, replace the front
brake cable every spring and inspect the rear cable carefully. Of course, none of these failures was
anticipated, the operator seeing himself as a competent mechanic.

What is not understood about cables is that they are constant length, even when bent, because
they are would in a helix and that each strand passes through both inside and outside of any
reasonable bend. That means that when one strand wears about 1/3 through, all strands are worn
similarly and it is at this point that strands tend to crack in the broad smooth worn face. Even
more important is that the finer the braid, the sooner the cable will fail. So called
"super-flex" cables with stranded strands, as are common on bare end gear shifters, wear out too
fast to be safely used for brakes.

Replace cables too often rather than not often enough. I was rolling into a left turn lane briskly
toward a red light when my cable failed. I passed three or four waiting cars and brought myself to a
stop with the rear brake before I got to the whizzing cross traffic.

I replace the front cable once a year whether it needs it or not.

Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

 

[Paul Kopit]

On Mon, 19 May 2003 18:58:27 GMT, [email protected] wrote:

>I replace the front cable once a year whether it needs it or not.
>
>Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

You must not be a Campt Ergo person. The brake cables frequently require removal of the lever to
thread through. The derailleur cables are much easier.

 

[Matt O'Toole]

<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> Michael Pearlman writes:
>
> >> I usually replace all the cables when I tune up
people's
> >> bikes. They're cheap (I charge $3.00 for stainless
steel...if
> >> someone balks at that, I do have inferior galvanized
ones for
> >> $1.00); no sense compromising safety over a few extra
dollars,
> >> IMO. When I don't, it's when the cables look to be in
nearly new
> >> condition. Housing I don't replace unless there was
corrosion on
> >> the old cable, or there are cuts, abrasions, or kinks
on the old
> >> housing. Other wear items I look at carefully are the
tires, brake
> >> pads, and handlebar grips.

I'm not sure the galvanized ones are "inferior." The failure mode for these is fatigue, and
stainless can be more prone to that (depending on what kind of steel the other one is made of).

> >> I always tell customers up front what I intend to
replace during a
> >> tune-up. If I am not around to do the write-up, I have
instructed
> >> staff to tell customers that approximately $20-30 in
small parts
> >> _may_ be used in the repair of their bike
>
> > Outrageous! I've left cables on bikes for years and
years with no
> > ill effects. Bike shops that replace them routinely are
stealing
> > from the customers. Revolt and learn to do it yourself
when
> > necessary.
>
> I know that this is a reasonable thing to do from the
brake cable
> failures I have witnessed and experienced once myself. I
routinely,
> since the cable failure I had years ago, replace the front
brake cable
> every spring and inspect the rear cable carefully. Of
course, none of
> these failures was anticipated, the operator seeing
himself as a
> competent mechanic.
>
> What is not understood about cables is that they are
constant length,
> even when bent, because they are would in a helix and that
each strand
> passes through both inside and outside of any reasonable
bend. That
> means that when one strand wears about 1/3 through, all
strands are
> worn similarly and it is at this point that strands tend
to crack in
> the broad smooth worn face. Even more important is that
the finer the
> braid, the sooner the cable will fail. So called
"super-flex" cables
> with stranded strands, as are common on bare end gear
shifters, wear
> out too fast to be safely used for brakes.
>
> Replace cables too often rather than not often enough. I
was rolling
> into a left turn lane briskly toward a red light when my
cable failed.
> I passed three or four waiting cars and brought myself to
a stop with
> the rear brake before I got to the whizzing cross traffic.
>
> I replace the front cable once a year whether it needs it
or not.

I've had the same problem, except for me it's every 6 months. I guess mountain bikers do more front
shifting, which wears 'em out quicker. The cable frays and breaks right at the front derailer. This
has been my most common field failure. After 5 or 6 incidents I've finally learned. With the
fraying, it's not like there's not enough warning. Riding 10 miles home in the 22T chainring is no
fun! FWIW, I've never had a rear one fail. Maybe I ought to have a look...

Matt O.

 

[Mike Latondress]

Paul Kopit <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> On Mon, 19 May 2003 18:58:27 GMT, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>I replace the front cable once a year whether it needs it or not.
>>
>>Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
>
> You must not be a Campt Ergo person. The brake cables frequently require removal of the lever to
> thread through. The derailleur cables are much easier.
>

You gotta be kidding. I just replaced my brake cables a couple of days ago and it took all of 10
minutes, and that includes crimping on the little end caps.

 

[Pete Biggs]

Andy Dingley wrote:
> Where can you buy ferrules ? (small quantities, UK) ? I'm sick of buying full cable sets when I
> already have plenty of long offcuts of outer cable, and even then they don't usually include more
> than two ferrules.

LBS or http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm

> Similarly for the little silicone doughnuts. Moulding your own from bath sealer isn't the most
> exciting job you can have.

LBS or http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm or
http://www.parker-international.co.uk/components.htm

~PB

 

[A Muzi]

> On Mon, 19 May 2003 00:10:22 -0500, "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Ferrules" ("carriers"; remember fero, ferre, tuli latus?) as you note, stop the casing allowing
> >the wire to pass through.

"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Where can you buy ferrules ? (small quantities, UK) ? I'm sick of buying full cable sets when I
> already have plenty of long offcuts of outer cable, and even then they don't usually include more
> than two ferrules.
>
> Similarly for the little silicone doughnuts. Moulding your own from bath sealer isn't the most
> exciting job you can have.
>

Bike shops buy them (ferrules, cable crimps and donuts) 100 in a jar, except for the Campagnolo size
which, AFAIK, only comes in the kit.

--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971

 

[Robert Nicholso]

Well ended up being pretty pricey.

How does this compare.

$75.00 - Check over (labour) $19.99 + $10.00 labor - Front and Rear Campy Derailer Cables $19.99
Cork tape (I had my brakes swapped over) $ 5.00 Address fork corrosion (basically just inspected it
as there was nothing that could be done, claimed it's not serious at the moment)

Total bill came to $148.47

I guess they saw me coming.

Not sure I'll be returning to this shop.

RE: Check over. I had to ask him to tighten the pedals (I have a wrench at home but you'd think the
checkover would have caught this) Plus there was no air in the tires other than what I'd hand pumped
when I put my bike together after I unpacked it. Again I had to ask him to put air in the tires.

Just what I got for my $75 labor I'll never know.

[email protected] (Robert Nicholson) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> So I have my rear derailer cable that's previously been anchored and a little frayed on the end
> now. Since the mech has to thread it back thru the barrel adjuster he claimed that it would be
> easier to replace the cable. He also wanted to do the same with the brake cables even though they
> are already anchored. My bikes been in storage for the last two years but the cables looked in
> decent condition to me. Since I'm paying for a tuneup I guess if they do need replacing then this
> is the time to do it but I seriously doubt that they needed replacement.
>
> The bike store in question is a very reputable bike store in the Chicago area.
>
> So, what this mechanic just trying to run up the bill?

 

[Russell Yim]

>Well ended up being pretty pricey. How does this compare. $75.00 - Check over (labour) $19.99 +
>$10.00 labor - Front and Rear Campy Derailer Cables $19.99 Cork tape (I had my brakes swapped over)
>$ 5.00 Address fork corrosion (basically just inspected it as there was nothing that could be done,
>claimed it's not serious at the moment) Total bill came to $148.47

At my shop, we have two packages that straddle the "check over" you purchased.

Our basic tune is $45, which buys adjustment of gears, brakes, and bearings, lateral wheel truing,
checking all the various nuts and bolts on the bike for security, air, and external lubrication.

Our deluxe tune is $85, and adds precision truing of the wheels, all the drivetrain parts get
cleaned in a solvent tank, the wheels are cleaned, and the frame is polished.

I'd charge $5-10 extra also to tape bars on top of a tune, although $19.99 for cork tape seems
awfully high (unless you got the Cinelli with the reflective strip built in.)

We, ahem, don't stock Campy stuff, but $20 for Campy cables seems reasonable to me (although I think
the bulk cables from QBP would be just as good at a fraction of the price.}

I don't charge people for "inspections" unless there were some serious disassembly involved, but
even then I typically don't charge unless I actually fix something.

Overall, I don't thing he took advantage of you (except for the fork bit), but it does sound like he
wasn't the most careful or meticulous mechanic if he didn't secure the pedals or inflate the tires.

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

robert-<< Well ended up being pretty pricey.

How does this compare

<< $75.00 - Check over (labour) $19.99 + $10.00 labor - Front and Rear Campy Derailer Cables

$75 labor AND an additional $10 labor for installing der cables? Yowser...

We do a basic tune for $70- True/tension/dish/round wheels off the bike, tires off. Adjust HS,
hubset, BB(if applicable), brakset, both ders Clean bike Check torques test ride

Are you in NYC???

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

trekkerussel-<< We, ahem, don't stock Campy stuff, but $20 for Campy cables seems reasonable to me
(although I think the bulk cables from QBP would be just as good at a fraction of the price.}

Thgese won't work unless ya grind the ends down smaller...or they get stuck in the shifter...

We use Torelli inner wire, made by Clark's in UK, smaller and shimano/Campagnolo compatible but
we use Campagnolo brake cables for modern ERGO as most brake cables heads dion't seat in the
ERGO lever.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Paul Kopit]

On Mon, 19 May 2003 22:38:11 GMT, Mike Latondresse <[email protected]> wrote:

>You gotta be kidding. I just replaced my brake cables a couple of days ago and it took all of 10
>minutes, and that includes crimping on the little end caps.

You got lucky, hitting the hole in the body of the shifter and then getting the cable into the
casing is not simple. It is especially difficult if you used a ferrule on the brake housing end.

 

[Bfd]

[email protected] (Russell Yim) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> >Well ended up being pretty pricey. How does this compare. $75.00 - Check over (labour) $19.99 +
> >$10.00 labor - Front and Rear Campy Derailer Cables $19.99 Cork tape (I had my brakes swapped
> >over) $ 5.00 Address fork corrosion (basically just inspected it as there was nothing that could
> >be done, claimed it's not serious at the moment) Total bill came to $148.47
>
> At my shop, we have two packages that straddle the "check over" you purchased.
>
> Our basic tune is $45, which buys adjustment of gears, brakes, and bearings, lateral wheel truing,
> checking all the various nuts and bolts on the bike for security, air, and external lubrication.
>
> Our deluxe tune is $85, and adds precision truing of the wheels, all the drivetrain parts get
> cleaned in a solvent tank, the wheels are cleaned, and the frame is polished.
>
> I'd charge $5-10 extra also to tape bars on top of a tune, although $19.99 for cork tape seems
> awfully high (unless you got the Cinelli with the reflective strip built in.)
>
$5-10 for taping the bars is reasonable. $20 for cork tape is a bit high, but hey, an lbs does have
to eat....
> We, ahem, don't stock Campy stuff, but $20 for Campy cables seems reasonable to me (although I
> think the bulk cables from QBP would be just as good at a fraction of the price.}
>
Actually, $20 or $10 each for "true" Campy OE cables are about right (MO sells for like $8, so $10
at an lbs is not outrageous) IF you want a cheaper alternative, next time ask for Torelli cables.
Note - the heads on Campy/Torelli and hopefully other compatible cables are smaller than
Shimano/japanese cables, so you NEED to make sure you get the correct cable.

> I don't charge people for "inspections" unless there were some serious disassembly involved, but
> even then I typically don't charge unless I actually fix something.
>
> Overall, I don't thing he took advantage of you (except for the fork bit), but it does sound
> like he wasn't the most careful or meticulous mechanic if he didn't secure the pedals or inflate
> the tires.

Agree, price not necesarily unreasonable. If you really want to save money, do it yourself. The
prices for some parts are a bit higher, but then so is the cost of operating your lbs....

 

[Gary Young]

[email protected] (Robert Nicholson) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Well ended up being pretty pricey.
>
> How does this compare.
>
> $75.00 - Check over (labour) $19.99 + $10.00 labor - Front and Rear Campy Derailer Cables $19.99
> Cork tape (I had my brakes swapped over) $ 5.00 Address fork corrosion (basically just inspected
> it as there was nothing that could be done, claimed it's not serious at the moment)
>
> Total bill came to $148.47
>
> I guess they saw me coming.
>
> Not sure I'll be returning to this shop.
>
> RE: Check over. I had to ask him to tighten the pedals (I have a wrench at home but you'd think
> the checkover would have caught this) Plus there was no air in the tires other than what I'd
> hand pumped when I put my bike together after I unpacked it. Again I had to ask him to put air
> in the tires.
>
> Just what I got for my $75 labor I'll never know.
>
> [email protected] (Robert Nicholson) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > So I have my rear derailer cable that's previously been anchored and a little frayed on the end
> > now. Since the mech has to thread it back thru the barrel adjuster he claimed that it would be
> > easier to replace the cable. He also wanted to do the same with the brake cables even though
> > they are already anchored. My bikes been in storage for the last two years but the cables looked
> > in decent condition to me. Since I'm paying for a tuneup I guess if they do need replacing then
> > this is the time to do it but I seriously doubt that they needed replacement.
> >
> > The bike store in question is a very reputable bike store in the Chicago area.
> >
> > So, what this mechanic just trying to run up the bill?

Before you write off the shop, why not talk to the manager? I've found that the competence and/or
work ethic of employees varies at even the best shops.

As for the prices, I'd ask around in your area. I thought $20 for Cinelli handlebar tape was
outrageous when I first moved to New York City, but then I discovered that that's what all the shops
charge (and probably have to, because of rents and labor costs).

 

[Russell Yim]

Yup...I grind the heads on QBP cables down a smidgen so they don't get jammed into ergo shifters. I
definitely agree that ferrules shouldn't be used in the hood body.

 

[Robert Nicholso]

No I'm in Chicago which is probably just as bad.

 

[A Muzi]

> On Mon, 19 May 2003 22:38:11 GMT, Mike Latondresse <[email protected]> wrote:
> >You gotta be kidding. I just replaced my brake cables a couple of days ago and it took all of 10
> >minutes, and that includes crimping on the little end caps.

"Paul Kopit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You got lucky, hitting the hole in the body of the shifter and then getting the cable into the
> casing is not simple. It is especially difficult if you used a ferrule on the brake housing end.

I am with Mike and Jobst on that.

We do a large number of Campagnolo bike service jobs here and I cannot recall ever having any
difficulty getting the wire through an Ergo lever - brake or gear wire. In fact, for Ergo rebuilds
we have gotten quite adept at untaping and re-cabling Ergos. It's fast and simple.

Only the old style (pointy) levers use a ferrule in the brake slot, BTW

--
Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971