bike purchase question

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Dennis Vaughn, May 29, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. I realize this may get a lot of whys but I will ask anyway. Looking to purchase a new bike. I have
    eliminated aluminum bikes except for Klein. Looking for either steel (chromoly I think they call it
    now) cause I like the smoothness of the ride, or carbon fiber (composite depending on the
    manufacture). My question is this: is it worth it to buy a carbon bike over steel? The prices for
    carbon are outrageous (I think) but I do like the ride. Any help would be nice. Oh, the three carbon
    frames I've ridden are Kestrel, 5200 Trek, and Calfee. The Klein Q-carbon race is the nicest riding
    aluminum bike I've ridden, but the Specialized Allez chromoly rode nice as well. These are just the
    ones that I've ridden and liked. Dennis
     
    Tags:


  2. Basically, you have already begun to answer your question.

    Buy the one in which the ride, and the other benefits (as they apply to you and how you ride) are
    not outweighed by the price.

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  3. Billx

    Billx Guest

    I question your decision to overlook the Trek 2300 (aluminum alloy) versus the Trek 5200 (carbon
    frame). The only difference between these two models is the frame. Everything else (including the
    fork) are the same except for an extra $800 for the carbon fiber 5200. Trek doesn't publish the
    weight of their frames but I've been told by several dealers that the 2300 aluminum frame is
    actually "lighter" than the 5200 carbon fiber so go figure? . "Dennis Vaughn" <[email protected]>
    wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I realize this may get a lot of whys but I will ask anyway. Looking to purchase a new bike. I have
    > eliminated aluminum bikes except for Klein. Looking for either steel (chromoly I think they call
    > it now) cause I like the smoothness of the ride, or carbon fiber (composite depending on the
    > manufacture). My question is this: is it worth it to buy a carbon bike
    over
    > steel? The prices for carbon are outrageous (I think) but I do like the ride. Any help would be
    > nice. Oh, the three carbon frames I've ridden
    are
    > Kestrel, 5200 Trek, and Calfee. The Klein Q-carbon race is the nicest riding aluminum bike I've
    > ridden, but the Specialized Allez chromoly rode nice as well. These are just the ones that I've
    > ridden and liked. Dennis
     
  4. C. Eastman

    C. Eastman Guest

    Dennis, check out this article by Sheldon on bike frame materials.
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html Don't miss the section on Vertical stiffness.
    Sheldon is a bit crazy :), but he doesn't just make this stuff up.

    Also, (a bit long winded but a good read all the same), Keith Bontrager wrote an article on frame
    stiffness. http://www.bontrager.com/keith/rants.asp?id=32

    Sheldon's stuff should get you over your prejudices towards aluminum and on to finding your
    dream ride.

    BTW, I ride a titanium mountain frame and a steel road frame. It's just whatever you prefer.

    "Dennis Vaughn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I realize this may get a lot of whys but I will ask anyway. Looking to purchase a new bike. I have
    > eliminated aluminum bikes except for Klein. Looking for either steel (chromoly I think they call
    > it now) cause I like the smoothness of the ride, or carbon fiber (composite depending on the
    > manufacture). My question is this: is it worth it to buy a carbon bike
    over
    > steel? The prices for carbon are outrageous (I think) but I do like the ride. Any help would be
    > nice. Oh, the three carbon frames I've ridden
    are
    > Kestrel, 5200 Trek, and Calfee. The Klein Q-carbon race is the nicest riding aluminum bike I've
    > ridden, but the Specialized Allez chromoly rode nice as well. These are just the ones that I've
    > ridden and liked. Dennis
     
  5. Kurd

    Kurd Guest

    And the Trek 2300 alloy is the same as the Klein alloy, just not as pretty looking.

    "BillX" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I question your decision to overlook the Trek 2300 (aluminum alloy) versus the Trek 5200 (carbon
    > frame). The only difference between these two
    models
    > is the frame. Everything else (including the fork) are the same except
    for
    > an extra $800 for the carbon fiber 5200. Trek doesn't publish the weight
    of
    > their frames but I've been told by several dealers that the 2300 aluminum frame is actually
    > "lighter" than the 5200 carbon fiber so go figure? . "Dennis Vaughn" <[email protected]> wrote
    > in message news:[email protected]...
    > > I realize this may get a lot of whys but I will ask anyway. Looking to purchase a new bike. I
    > > have eliminated aluminum bikes except for Klein. Looking for either steel (chromoly I think they
    > > call it now) cause I
    like
    > > the smoothness of the ride, or carbon fiber (composite depending on the manufacture). My
    > > question is this: is it worth it to buy a carbon bike
    > over
    > > steel? The prices for carbon are outrageous (I think) but I do like the ride. Any help would be
    > > nice. Oh, the three carbon frames I've ridden
    > are
    > > Kestrel, 5200 Trek, and Calfee. The Klein Q-carbon race is the nicest riding aluminum bike I've
    > > ridden, but the Specialized Allez chromoly
    rode
    > > nice as well. These are just the ones that I've ridden and liked. Dennis
    > >
    >
     
  6. Bluto

    Bluto Guest

    "Dennis Vaughn" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I realize this may get a lot of whys but I will ask anyway. Looking to purchase a new bike. I have
    > eliminated aluminum bikes except for Klein.

    Hmm.

    > Looking for either steel (chromoly I think they call it now) cause I like the smoothness of
    > the ride,

    Uh...

    > or carbon fiber (composite depending on the manufacture). My question is this: is it worth it to
    > buy a carbon bike over steel? The prices for carbon are outrageous (I think) but I do like the
    > ride. Any help would be nice.

    The words and issues you choose in asking your question indicate that you have been listening to
    people who know a lot more about selling bikes than they know about bikes.

    For instance, did you know that steel is 3 times stiffer than aluminum? Or that carbon fiber
    reinforced plastics have no intrinsic properties that could allow them to have a
    characteristic "ride"?

    I will not get into it except to say this: The design of a specific bike frame will have more to do
    with its "ride" than will the material in it. And the components used to build up the bike will have
    more affect on the "ride" than the frame does. Tires alone can transform the ride and handling
    qualities of a bike far more than any possible permutations of tubing material, shape, and diameter
    in a bike frame.

    The issues to consider in rough order of importance go something like this:

    1. Rider fit
    2. Suitability for intended use
    3. Cost
    4. Dealer support
    5. Warranty
    6. Reasonably foreseeable durability
    7. Parts compatibility
    8. Weight relative to comparable bikes
    9. Spoke count
    10. Paint color
    11. Riding buddies' opinions
    12. Country of origin
    13. Perceived/anticipated ride quality
    14. Quality of handlebar tape
    15. Any residual odors on saddle
    16. Mom's opinion
    17. Intactness of nubbles on tires
    18. Wife's opinion and so forth....

    If you get hung up trying to make you decision based on factor #13, you may blow it with regard to
    one or more of those top five issues. So try to do a more thorough job of sorting out what works
    best for you on those criteria that will actually affect how well you will ride, how much you will
    ride, and how much value you will get from your bike.

    Pretty much all comparisons based on criteria like soft vs. hard ride, stable vs. nimble handling,
    vibration damping etc., are straight-up bullshit. Folks who frame the choice in those terms, be they
    magazine writers, salesmen, or whatever, are trying to manipulate you into making a decision
    contrary to what your own top five criteria might suggest.

    So don't let extraneous details like frame material or worse yet, the ride qualities you erroneously
    ascribe to a given frame material, muddy your decision-making process. Reckon what you need in a
    bike, what you would like anyway, and how much you wish to spend. If you wind up with a bike that
    needs bigger tires to deliver the "silky smooth yet responsive, stiff yet compliant, stable yet
    nimble ride" you crave, well you were going to need new treads sooner or later anyway.

    Chalo Colina
     
  7. > And the Trek 2300 alloy is the same as the Klein alloy, just not as pretty looking.

    However, the Klein incorporates the carbon fiber seatstays that are currently in vogue. The geometry
    is radically different as well; the TREK is pretty much classic Italian road race geometry as it's
    existed for many years, while the Klein has steeper angles and a considerably longer top tube.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  8. Kurd

    Kurd Guest

    I stand corrected on the carbon stays. Are all the Klein road bikes this year doing that?

    /the shame of working at a Trek dealer that does little or no Klein business.

    Kurd

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > And the Trek 2300 alloy is the same as the Klein alloy, just not as
    pretty
    > > looking.
    >
    > However, the Klein incorporates the carbon fiber seatstays that are currently in vogue. The
    > geometry is radically different as well; the TREK is pretty much classic Italian road race
    > geometry as it's existed for many years, while the Klein has steeper angles and a considerably
    > longer top tube.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  9. Dennis-<< My question is this: is it worth it to buy a carbon bike over steel? The prices for carbon
    are outrageous (I think) but I do like the ride.

    Custom steel Nobilettes are $1200, Calfee carbon Luna is $1300....

    << Any help would be nice.

    Get a bike fit first!!. On a fit cycle with a well trained fit person, then look at those framesets
    that fit ya.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  10. Tom Spudich

    Tom Spudich Guest

    I was in your shoes two days ago. I went to 6 different LBSs and one sports store and tried 9
    different entry level bikes. I selected for the first bike I tried out, the Jamis Aurora, and
    changed out to 25 mm tires (from 30) for free thanks to the LBS. The Raleigh Grand Sport was the
    only bike that came close to the ride (in my opinion), but they couldn't come close to the Jamis
    price. The fitting by an experienced LBS owner (Bluto's first issue) is the MOST IMPORTANT thing!
    Don't spend hours upon hours trying to resolve issue 13 (see below in Bluto's email). After going
    through all the BS I did, I can say, Bluto's issues 1-8 (and 15! :) are satisfied, buy it!

    "Bluto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Dennis Vaughn" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I realize this may get a lot of whys but I will ask anyway. Looking to purchase a new bike. I
    > > have eliminated aluminum bikes except for Klein.
    >
    > Hmm.
    >
    > > Looking for either steel (chromoly I think they call it now) cause I
    like
    > > the smoothness of the ride,
    >
    > Uh...
    >
    > > or carbon fiber (composite depending on the manufacture). My question is this: is it worth it to
    > > buy a carbon bike
    over
    > > steel? The prices for carbon are outrageous (I think) but I do like the ride. Any help would
    > > be nice.
    >
    > The words and issues you choose in asking your question indicate that you have been listening to
    > people who know a lot more about selling bikes than they know about bikes.
    >
    > For instance, did you know that steel is 3 times stiffer than aluminum? Or that carbon fiber
    > reinforced plastics have no intrinsic properties that could allow them to have a
    > characteristic "ride"?
    >
    > I will not get into it except to say this: The design of a specific bike frame will have more to
    > do with its "ride" than will the material in it. And the components used to build up the bike will
    > have more affect on the "ride" than the frame does. Tires alone can transform the ride and
    > handling qualities of a bike far more than any possible permutations of tubing material, shape,
    > and diameter in a bike frame.
    >
    > The issues to consider in rough order of importance go something like this:
    >
    > 1. Rider fit
    > 2. Suitability for intended use
    > 3. Cost
    > 4. Dealer support
    > 5. Warranty
    > 6. Reasonably foreseeable durability
    > 7. Parts compatibility
    > 8. Weight relative to comparable bikes
    > 9. Spoke count
    > 10. Paint color
    > 11. Riding buddies' opinions
    > 12. Country of origin
    > 13. Perceived/anticipated ride quality
    > 14. Quality of handlebar tape
    > 15. Any residual odors on saddle
    > 16. Mom's opinion
    > 17. Intactness of nubbles on tires
    > 18. Wife's opinion and so forth....
    >
    > If you get hung up trying to make you decision based on factor #13, you may blow it with regard to
    > one or more of those top five issues. So try to do a more thorough job of sorting out what works
    > best for you on those criteria that will actually affect how well you will ride, how much you will
    > ride, and how much value you will get from your bike.
    >
    > Pretty much all comparisons based on criteria like soft vs. hard ride, stable vs. nimble handling,
    > vibration damping etc., are straight-up bullshit. Folks who frame the choice in those terms, be
    > they magazine writers, salesmen, or whatever, are trying to manipulate you into making a decision
    > contrary to what your own top five criteria might suggest.
    >
    > So don't let extraneous details like frame material or worse yet, the ride qualities you
    > erroneously ascribe to a given frame material, muddy your decision-making process. Reckon what you
    > need in a bike, what you would like anyway, and how much you wish to spend. If you wind up with a
    > bike that needs bigger tires to deliver the "silky smooth yet responsive, stiff yet compliant,
    > stable yet nimble ride" you crave, well you were going to need new treads sooner or later anyway.
    >
    > Chalo Colina
     
  11. > I stand corrected on the carbon stays. Are all the Klein road bikes this year doing that?

    Yes, this year all Klein road bikes have carbon stays.

    > /the shame of working at a Trek dealer that does little or no Klein business.

    You'll just have to sell more Kleins! Unfortunately, that's not easily done this year; Klein has had
    terrible delivery problems for some time.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com

    "Kurd" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I stand corrected on the carbon stays. Are all the Klein road bikes this year doing that?
    >
    > /the shame of working at a Trek dealer that does little or no Klein business.
    >
    >
    > Kurd
    >
    >
    > "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > > And the Trek 2300 alloy is the same as the Klein alloy, just not as
    > pretty
    > > > looking.
    > >
    > > However, the Klein incorporates the carbon fiber seatstays that are currently in vogue. The
    > > geometry is radically different as well; the
    TREK
    > > is pretty much classic Italian road race geometry as it's existed for
    many
    > > years, while the Klein has steeper angles and a considerably longer top tube.
    > >
    > > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    > >
    > >
     
  12. Hey Chalo, where does "cool factor" go on tour list? ;-3)

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...