Bike rebate?

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Shane Stanley, Sep 6, 2005.

  1. From <http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1454859.htm>

    Medicare to offer new exercise rebate

    A new Medicare rebate is being introduced to help battle Australia's
    rising level of obesity.

    The rebate will cover the costs of programs prescribed by exercise
    physiologists to treat chronic sufferers of diseases such as diabetes,
    high blood pressure and obesity.

    Australian Association for Exercise and Sports Science president Chris
    Tzar says exercise can be critical to the successful control of these
    diseases.

    "Approximately 65 per cent of patients undertake less than the minimum
    required amount of physical activity per week," he said.

    "We really need to start tackling chronic disease with relation to
    lifestyle issues.

    "Physical inactivity is expected to become the number one risk factor in
    chronic disease, it will probably overtake smoking in the near future."

    --------------
    Anyone know a decent exercise physiologist? I think I need a program
    that involves a new bike...

    --
    Shane Stanley
     
    Tags:


  2. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    Shane Stanley wrote:
    >
    > From <http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1454859.htm>
    >
    > Medicare to offer new exercise rebate
    >
    > A new Medicare rebate is being introduced to help battle Australia's
    > rising level of obesity.
    >
    > The rebate will cover the costs of programs prescribed by exercise
    > physiologists to treat chronic sufferers of diseases such as diabetes,
    > high blood pressure and obesity.

    <snip>

    Isn't that nice? If you let yourself go, and end up fat and unhealthy,
    we'll help cover the costs...

    .... too bad if you've taken care of yourself from the start!

    > --------------
    > Anyone know a decent exercise physiologist? I think I need a program
    > that involves a new bike...


    I have a department full of them, right here...

    Tam
     
  3. flyingdutch

    flyingdutch New Member

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    That would be Titanium exercise, right? :D:D:D
     
  4. ritcho

    ritcho New Member

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    I'd rather be healthy and live longer than be sick and die earlier for the sake of a government handout...

    Speaking of which, where's my handout? Everyone else gets one!

    Ritch
     
  5. Marx SS

    Marx SS New Member

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    Arh, here I am caught in the middle.
    Fit enough not to get an excercse rebate & not fast/strong/consistant enough to get AIS support. :(
     
  6. SteveA

    SteveA New Member

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    It's cheaper to spend money to battle obesity now than it is to pay the hospital costs of heart disease, diabetes, end stage liver failure, kidney failure etc down the track. Give 'em some of my tax money now? Or heaps more later?

    Steve A
     
  7. In article <[email protected]>,
    Tamyka Bell <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Isn't that nice? If you let yourself go, and end up fat and unhealthy,
    > we'll help cover the costs...
    >
    > ... too bad if you've taken care of yourself from the start!


    Looks like that got your blood pressure rising nicely ;-)

    --
    Shane Stanley
     
  8. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    ritcho wrote:
    >
    > Tamyka Bell Wrote:
    > > Shane Stanley wrote:
    > > >
    > > > From <http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1454859.htm>
    > > >
    > > > Medicare to offer new exercise rebate
    > > >
    > > > A new Medicare rebate is being introduced to help battle Australia's
    > > > rising level of obesity.
    > > >
    > > > The rebate will cover the costs of programs prescribed by exercise
    > > > physiologists to treat chronic sufferers of diseases such as

    > > diabetes,
    > > > high blood pressure and obesity.

    > > <snip>
    > >
    > > Isn't that nice? If you let yourself go, and end up fat and unhealthy,
    > > we'll help cover the costs...
    > >
    > > .... too bad if you've taken care of yourself from the start!
    > >
    > > [snip]
    > >
    > > Tam

    >
    > I'd rather be healthy and live longer than be sick and die earlier for
    > the sake of a government handout...
    >
    > Speaking of which, where's my handout? Everyone else gets one!
    >
    > Ritch


    Yeah! I want one too! (PhD scholarship doesn't count!)

    Tam
     
  9. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    Shane Stanley wrote:
    >
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > Tamyka Bell <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Isn't that nice? If you let yourself go, and end up fat and unhealthy,
    > > we'll help cover the costs...
    > >
    > > ... too bad if you've taken care of yourself from the start!

    >
    > Looks like that got your blood pressure rising nicely ;-)


    :p That'd put it back into the normal range.

    Tam
     
  10. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    SteveA wrote:
    >
    > Tamyka Bell Wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > Isn't that nice? If you let yourself go, and end up fat and unhealthy,
    > > we'll help cover the costs...
    > >
    > > Tam

    >
    > It's cheaper to spend money to battle obesity now than it is to pay the
    > hospital costs of heart disease, diabetes, end stage liver failure,
    > kidney failure etc down the track. Give 'em some of my tax money now?
    > Or heaps more later?
    >
    > Steve A


    We should give obese people a 2 year time window to seek help to sort it
    out, determine the precise cause, see if it can be diet/exercise
    controlled. After that, pay for your own medical help, unless it is a
    specific medical problem causing the obesity. Very little sympathy for
    self-abusers. (Similarly alcoholics with liver problems, smokers with
    lung cancer...) Probably makes me an unsympathetic bitch, but I was fat
    and asthmatic and I did something about it.

    Tam
     
  11. Tamyka Bell wrote:

    > Isn't that nice? If you let yourself go, and end up fat and unhealthy,
    > we'll help cover the costs...


    <warning - longish rant>

    Blink!
    1) You are female?
    2) Are you absolutely sure that none of your ancestors suffered from
    diabetes?
    3) Come back amd make that statement after you've done a bit of breeding
    and your sons have bred (should put them into the target age range for
    T2 diabetes nicely).

    FYI; some diabetes is given to sons by mothers who are carriers of the
    gene (another cause). In which case you would be a pretty good candidate
    for getting it yourself (age onset= another cause).

    Oh, and you might start asking some of your breeding female friends if
    they went/are pre-/diabetic during pregnancy (fourth cause).



    <cynical>
    Yes, I know the current medically driven mantra is that it is all caused
    by the lazy, obese[1] individuals. Obviously they have seen all the
    funds that "Cancer Research" can attract and are now trying for "obesity
    institutes". Nice little career that, working for a research charity.
    </cynical>

    [1] Some diabetics are less than or at the bottom end of normal weight.
    Quite a few people who have diabetes are not actually "obese". A lot
    become fat/obese after they get diabetes because they are suppossed to
    follow a pattern of 6x(inject, eat, exerise) each day.


    As far as diabetes goes, they (medical profession) only have a
    rudimentary clue. We seem to have two theories for Type 1 & Type 2, but
    the area really is scientific knowledge that is still greatly evolving.
    Best explanation is that the title "diabetes" is like "cancer"; not all
    cancers have the same cause and we know what it is, but not how to fix it.

    It is interesting to hear older doctors talk about 5 types.


    You just need to read some of the usenet groups and web forums and hear
    some of the problems that diabetics have with the standard mantras of
    what they should do (tablets, exercise, diet, exercise).

    So you can end up with high blood pressure just trying to work out what
    is going on with your diabetes and why the good advice you are given
    just isn't working.


    Bicycling is actually a very good activity for diabetics because they
    can often have difficulty getting sufficent exercise walking (or any
    foot based activity). The nerves in your feet seem to be the first to go
    and as you are always asked "are they on fire?". Then there is the cramps.


    Finally, if obesity was the sole cause, then you would expect that all
    those diabetics who somehow[2] loose weight and keep up the exercise to
    be cured. Unfortunately not


    > ... too bad if you've taken care of yourself from the start!


    I too thought like you when I was young. Until I started to realise that
    a heck of a lot of people had problems from no fault of their own doing.

    Remember that your genes are only selected to get you to breed and raise
    children. Anything else is a bonus and really random selection.

    So, if you want to indulge in wine, women/men, alcohol, funny
    stimulants, tobaccos/weed, etc, feel free because at least then you will
    have something to blame instead of feeling "huh", but I didn't use any
    of those.




    >>Anyone know a decent exercise physiologist? I think I need a program
    >>that involves a new bike...


    It will probably only be for part of a K Mart clunker to minimum street
    legal. No lights, no rear view mirror, no streamers {:).


    > I have a department full of them, right here...


    Do they have a provider number? {:).
     
  12. cfsmtb

    cfsmtb New Member

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  13. SteveA

    SteveA New Member

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    Ummm, doesn't the US have a system where people are required to pay for their health care if they are unwell due to being too poor or too stupid or come from the wrong socio-economic group to look after their own health? Cynical? Yep. I used to be involved in sharing out the $3bn that is spent in the WA public health system between preventative programs and acute programs. Do you spend $100,000 on 10 drug addicts or one 80 year old granny? Save 10 lives or 1? Save a total of 10 x 40 years of additional life or 5 years of additional life? The granny has led an exemplary life, the addicts thieve to get money for drugs. But what about if the addicts are parents of little kids? Sound like one of those moral dilemma things you get given at management courses? (I'm raving on here because I'm supposed to be preparing for an exam on Saturday and I'll do anything not to study :rolleyes: )

    The sad reality is that many of these self-abusers are not smart enough or do not have enough will power to take control of their own poor health habits. Many are also not well off financially. They would not/could not pay for their own treatment. The charity sector could not cope with the numbers if they were excluded from the public health system. We'd have people dying on our front doorsteps, in our front gardens, on our verandahs. Bloody untidy. And think of the smell. I think the reality is that in Australia, they will end up in our public health system. Look at the alternatives in countries where they do not look after these people. So given that these people will be a burden on the health system at some time, a preventative approach is likely to be cheaper in the long run. Given the characteristics of many of these people, a program of incentives will probably work better than relying on their in-built motivation (of which a fair number have bugger all).

    Steve(I have to go to bed now before I rave any more)A
     
  14. LotteBum

    LotteBum New Member

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    Hmm hot topic.

    I agree with Tamyka, but I also agree that we can't prioritise health concerns as such. Besides, Tam did not at any point state that they shouldn't receive health care - just that we need to take more responsibility for our general health and well being.

    We've all seen patients in hospital courtyards clinging onto their drip stands and smoking. This pisses me off no end as I'm sure it does most others.

    Peter Beattie (like him, but I don't if you know what I mean) made a comment on this very topic last week when questioned about the health crisis.

    I don't think anyone should be turned away when they're sick, but it's up to the general public to ensure that we are in the best possible state of well being in order to minimise the incident of illness which we all know is often attributed to poor general health.

    Diabetes is a hard one. Often those with any type of diebetes end up fine if they lose weight. I've seen this first hand with a handful of my aunts and uncles who all got it. My sister had gestational diabetes and when I went to the gestational diabetes section of the hospital with her on her fortnightly checkup, 90% of the pregnant women there (they obviously had gestational diabetes) were significantly overweight (ie. borderline obese). That's not to say that everyone who has diabetes is overweight - all I'm saying is that it's proven fact that a lot of cases of Type 2 diabetes are easily 'corrected' by weight loss.

    Alright, enough said. I'm going to go and rant about something else.

    LotteBum

    P.S. Have I ever mentioned just how much I despise people who smoke? How when they breathe their smoke onto me I just want to rip the cigarette out of their mouth and jam it in their butt?

    P.P.S. Have I ever mentioned why I rarely socialise with the people I work with? At least 50% of them smoke.

    P.P.S. Ok, rant really over now...
     
  15. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    Terry Collins wrote:
    >
    > Tamyka Bell wrote:
    >
    > > Isn't that nice? If you let yourself go, and end up fat and unhealthy,
    > > we'll help cover the costs...

    >
    > <warning - longish rant>
    >
    > Blink!
    > 1) You are female?


    Yes

    > 2) Are you absolutely sure that none of your ancestors suffered from
    > diabetes?


    No. I am absolutely sure that my paternal grandfather has diabetes.

    > 3) Come back amd make that statement after you've done a bit of breeding
    > and your sons have bred (should put them into the target age range for
    > T2 diabetes nicely).


    I have no intention of breeding.

    > FYI; some diabetes is given to sons by mothers who are carriers of the
    > gene (another cause). In which case you would be a pretty good candidate
    > for getting it yourself (age onset= another cause).


    That, and my sugar intolerance, and the strange insulin readings I get
    during testing. Yep the Ex Phys staff around here reckon I would be by
    now, if I wasn't so fit.

    > Oh, and you might start asking some of your breeding female friends if
    > they went/are pre-/diabetic during pregnancy (fourth cause).


    My friends don't breed. They may reproduce.

    > <cynical>
    > Yes, I know the current medically driven mantra is that it is all caused
    > by the lazy, obese[1] individuals. Obviously they have seen all the
    > funds that "Cancer Research" can attract and are now trying for "obesity
    > institutes". Nice little career that, working for a research charity.
    > </cynical>


    My comment above, as you have quoted, referred to fat, lazy, unhealthy
    people. The media releases have stated that GPs can refer obese people
    to Ex Phys. I am perfectly happy for diabetics to see an Ex Phys. I was
    referring to the non-diabetic obese people without a medical condition
    causing it.

    > [1] Some diabetics are less than or at the bottom end of normal weight.
    > Quite a few people who have diabetes are not actually "obese". A lot
    > become fat/obese after they get diabetes because they are suppossed to
    > follow a pattern of 6x(inject, eat, exerise) each day.


    I'm aware of this fact. Dogs can be diabetic too, how about that?

    > As far as diabetes goes, they (medical profession) only have a
    > rudimentary clue. We seem to have two theories for Type 1 & Type 2, but
    > the area really is scientific knowledge that is still greatly evolving.
    > Best explanation is that the title "diabetes" is like "cancer"; not all
    > cancers have the same cause and we know what it is, but not how to fix it.
    >
    > It is interesting to hear older doctors talk about 5 types.
    >
    > You just need to read some of the usenet groups and web forums and hear
    > some of the problems that diabetics have with the standard mantras of
    > what they should do (tablets, exercise, diet, exercise).
    >
    > So you can end up with high blood pressure just trying to work out what
    > is going on with your diabetes and why the good advice you are given
    > just isn't working.


    It's like that with most diseases, isn't it. Sucks. And the more we
    know, the more we're aware that we don't know much at all.

    > Bicycling is actually a very good activity for diabetics because they
    > can often have difficulty getting sufficent exercise walking (or any
    > foot based activity). The nerves in your feet seem to be the first to go
    > and as you are always asked "are they on fire?". Then there is the cramps.


    Nasty.

    > Finally, if obesity was the sole cause, then you would expect that all
    > those diabetics who somehow[2] loose weight and keep up the exercise to
    > be cured. Unfortunately not


    Never said it was the sole cause... like I said, I was referring to the
    fact that obese people, not diabetics. And I later went on to explain
    that I understand obesity can have medical causes and if that's the
    cause, then they should be entitled to claim under medicare. But people
    who are just fat and lazy really should just get over it and ride a
    bike.

    > > ... too bad if you've taken care of yourself from the start!

    >
    > I too thought like you when I was young. Until I started to realise that
    > a heck of a lot of people had problems from no fault of their own doing.


    And a lot of people have problems that are their fault. Like smokers
    with lung cancer and paraplegics who drove when drunk and wrapped their
    car around a light pole.

    > Remember that your genes are only selected to get you to breed and raise
    > children. Anything else is a bonus and really random selection.


    That's a nice evolutionary viewpoint. Let's work with that and cease to
    provide any healthcare, so that only the fittest, healthiest genes
    survive.

    > So, if you want to indulge in wine, women/men, alcohol, funny
    > stimulants, tobaccos/weed, etc, feel free because at least then you will
    > have something to blame instead of feeling "huh", but I didn't use any
    > of those.
    >
    > >>Anyone know a decent exercise physiologist? I think I need a program
    > >>that involves a new bike...

    >
    > It will probably only be for part of a K Mart clunker to minimum street
    > legal. No lights, no rear view mirror, no streamers {:).
    >
    > > I have a department full of them, right here...

    >
    > Do they have a provider number? {:).


    All AAESS members are eligible service providers.

    Tam
     
  16. Theo Bekkers

    Theo Bekkers Guest

    Terry Collins wrote:
    > Tamyka Bell wrote:


    >> Isn't that nice? If you let yourself go, and end up fat and
    >> unhealthy, we'll help cover the costs...


    > [1] Some diabetics are less than or at the bottom end of normal
    > weight. Quite a few people who have diabetes are not actually
    > "obese". A lot become fat/obese after they get diabetes because they
    > are suppossed to follow a pattern of 6x(inject, eat, exerise) each
    > day.


    A female friend of my wife's is seriously diabetic. Has an automatic pump
    installed. She's never been over 60 kg in her life. My dad is a borderline
    diabetic. He weighs more now than at any time in his life, 58 kg.

    When you get sick Tam, let us know and we'll winge about the terrible cost
    to us poor taxpayers. Maybe if Governments spent less money on weapons we
    could all afford to live well and pay less taxes.......

    Theo
     
  17. Tamyka Bell

    Tamyka Bell Guest

    Theo Bekkers wrote:
    >
    > Terry Collins wrote:
    > > Tamyka Bell wrote:

    >
    > >> Isn't that nice? If you let yourself go, and end up fat and
    > >> unhealthy, we'll help cover the costs...

    >
    > > [1] Some diabetics are less than or at the bottom end of normal
    > > weight. Quite a few people who have diabetes are not actually
    > > "obese". A lot become fat/obese after they get diabetes because they
    > > are suppossed to follow a pattern of 6x(inject, eat, exerise) each
    > > day.

    >
    > A female friend of my wife's is seriously diabetic. Has an automatic pump
    > installed. She's never been over 60 kg in her life. My dad is a borderline
    > diabetic. He weighs more now than at any time in his life, 58 kg.
    >
    > When you get sick Tam, let us know and we'll winge about the terrible cost
    > to us poor taxpayers. Maybe if Governments spent less money on weapons we
    > could all afford to live well and pay less taxes.......
    >
    > Theo


    As I've said several times already today, and once last night, I WAS
    REFERRING TO OBESE PEOPLE WHERE THE CAUSE IS NOT MEDICAL, RATHER THAN TO
    DIABETIC PEOPLE (OBESE OR OTHERWISE). You know, the disgustingly fat
    people who are adamant that they're not overweight and still eat three
    fast-food meals a day? Yes, I resent that the tax I pay on my meagre
    income goes to them. Yes, I think the system is fscked.

    Please, anyone, explain to me where I said that diabetic people
    shouldn't receive treatment.

    Now I'm off to CoolRunning where, people seem to read entire threads.

    Oh... compare expenditure on wpns with expenditure on training, and
    compare that to overseas, as well.

    Tam
     
  18. Resound

    Resound Guest

    "Theo Bekkers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Terry Collins wrote:
    >> Tamyka Bell wrote:

    >
    >>> Isn't that nice? If you let yourself go, and end up fat and
    >>> unhealthy, we'll help cover the costs...

    >
    >> [1] Some diabetics are less than or at the bottom end of normal
    >> weight. Quite a few people who have diabetes are not actually
    >> "obese". A lot become fat/obese after they get diabetes because they
    >> are suppossed to follow a pattern of 6x(inject, eat, exerise) each
    >> day.

    >
    > A female friend of my wife's is seriously diabetic. Has an automatic pump
    > installed. She's never been over 60 kg in her life. My dad is a borderline
    > diabetic. He weighs more now than at any time in his life, 58 kg.
    >
    > When you get sick Tam, let us know and we'll winge about the terrible cost
    > to us poor taxpayers. Maybe if Governments spent less money on weapons we
    > could all afford to live well and pay less taxes.......
    >
    > Theo
    >


    I don't recall Tam saying that all diabetics are overweight and possessed of
    a self inflicted condition. What I'm fairly sure she was saying was that
    there are plenty of people out there who are at risk of developing type-2
    diabetes purely or largely due to the fact that they're substantially
    overweight/obese. In other words, they wouldn't be at significant risk if
    they weren't Tubby SlobsT.
     
  19. Theo Bekkers

    Theo Bekkers Guest

    Tamyka Bell wrote:

    > As I've said several times already today, and once last night, I WAS
    > REFERRING TO OBESE PEOPLE WHERE THE CAUSE IS NOT MEDICAL, RATHER THAN
    > TO DIABETIC PEOPLE (OBESE OR OTHERWISE). You know, the disgustingly
    > fat people who are adamant that they're not overweight and still eat
    > three fast-food meals a day?


    They pay GST on their fast-food, you get your home-cooked meals GST free.
    Ergo, they are contributing more to the tax system. :)

    > Yes, I resent that the tax I pay on my
    > meagre income goes to them. Yes, I think the system is fscked.


    Article in the paper last week on taxes said that a single-income family
    with two kids effectively make no positive tax contribution until their
    income goes above $48,000.

    No malice intended.

    Cheers

    Theo
     
  20. Theo Bekkers

    Theo Bekkers Guest

    Resound wrote:

    > I don't recall Tam saying that all diabetics are overweight and
    > possessed of a self inflicted condition. What I'm fairly sure she was
    > saying was that there are plenty of people out there who are at risk
    > of developing type-2 diabetes purely or largely due to the fact that
    > they're substantially overweight/obese. In other words, they wouldn't
    > be at significant risk if they weren't Tubby SlobsT.


    No, she didn't. From my reading she said that people should be punished for
    the lifestyle they choose to lead. Hey, if they're tubby slobs they won't be
    collecting the pension for very long, if at all. Why should skinny people
    who keep fit and live to be 100 collect all that pension money? It's not
    fair on those that choose (by their lifestyle) to die young.

    :)

    Theo
     
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